[peteinct]

Hi everybody, I am starting to jones for a new gun. I'm not sure what I want. I didn't feel the need for one, I own a 75b, model 66, and a ruger mark II, and felt pretty well supplied. But I handled a high power and said to myself "this fits really nice in my hand". But I have a 9mm I like so I say "I should get a classic 45 to round out my collection". So now I'm stuck.
Help me out and list pros and cons for each. I don't want a gun that I have to spend money on it right out of the box.
thanks, pete

[Zak Smith]

There have been numerous threads both here and on TFL which you can search for regarding the "BHP vs. 1911" question.

Both are excellent designs.

A Browning BHP MKIII will work from the box and need no modifications.

You have many choices for "whose" 1911 to buy, at many price points.

I would be perfectly happy if my auto collection only consisted of BHP's and 1911's... so just decide which one you want "first."

-z

[axeman_g]

I have a Colt Combat Commander and a FN HP. I love both pistols as much for their differences as their similarities.

Both are stone cold reliable. I am a tad more acurate with HP. I feel secure with either.

It is sort of like which size chisel you personally prefer to make a dovetail joint with.

My suggestion, get the HP. A FN version can be found in CDNN catalog fr 400 or so. It is slightly easier to shoot well with it. 9mm is cheap giving you alot of range ammo to work with.

Then go get the 1911 after shooting a few different versions. Dont just assume a 1911 is a 1911 from all different manufacturers.

I owned a Springfield Loaded and hated it. Traded it very quickly for an Ithaca Shotgun. I dont like Kimbers I have shot, but love the Dan Wesson and Colts I have shot.


Try them both, they are easy to find as rentals.

Axe

[kalibear45]

For a reliable, accurate out-of-the-box 1911. I would go with any of these 3:

Springfield Loaded 1911
Kimber TLE II
Smith & Wesson SW1911

Plan on spending around $600-$800 however...

[HankB]

New BHP Pluses: Probably very reliable out of the box. 9mm ammo is cheap. Minimal modifications needed. (Add Spegel grips, remove mag disconnect, and you're good to go.) Nice balance. Good workmanship. Reliable standard cap (13 rd) mags are still common at reasonable prices.

New BHP Minuses: Trigger has long reconnect.

New 1911 Pluses: Many brands to choose from. Trigger can be made better than the BHP's. (primarily because of the short reconnect distance.) Many variations on sights, serrations, etc. More adequate to good 1911 pistolsmiths around.

New 1911 Minuses: Less likely to be reliable out of the box unless you pay 1.5 - 2 times the cost of a BHP. .45 ammo costs more than 9mm. A bit bulkier and heavier than a BHP. Workmanship varies GREATLY between brands . . . sometimes, even between different examples of the SAME brand. More likely to need a pistolsmith's attention.

[Berg01]

Pro BHP / Con 1911:

1) You like the CZ 75 B, so you will probably like the BHP, the two are very similar in shootability
2) The BHP is accurate and reliable like the CZ
2) 9mm Factory Ammo is cheaper to shoot than .45ACP Factory Ammo

Con BHP / Pro 1911

1) You already have a 9mm, why not get a .45 ACP
2) .45 Reloads can be bought cheaper (and reloaded yourself MUCH cheaper) than 9mm Factory Ammo; few people bother to load 9mm therse days.
3) 1911s are Accurate, are Usually Very Reliable, and Most Importantly, Great Big Fun to Shoot!

Based on the foregoing, it is obvious you should get the 1911.

[TRIDENT]

I would get the 1911. You don't have a .45 yet. My Springfield mil-spec has been stone cold reliable out of the box.

[tracer]

I will probably be strung up and ridiculed for this option-buy an FEG Hi Power copy,remove the mag safety and see what you think.Can be done for $250.If you don't like it -I will pay $200.A $50 risk.
Tracer

[M90A1]

I'll second the FEG suggestion. Just make sure you consider only the PJK-9HP. The other models are not true FN clones.

[BHPshooter]

I have a new HP, a Browning. It has been ABSOLUTELY RELIABLE, the only signs of a hiccup were from the strong springs in Argentine 17-rd. magazines. Those are gone now. With the factory 13 rounder, it eats everything and doesn't look back.

ABSOLUTELY RELIABLE, in case you didn't catch it the first time. I don't want to ruffle any feathers, so please, no one take it that way: The thing that keeps stopping me from getting the 1911 is 1) there are waaaay too many to choose from for a beginner, and 2) I keep hearing about the reliability issues, MIM issues, magazine issues, extractor issues, etc.

That keeps me a little too uncomfortable to lay down that kind of money as a college student.

That said, my next gun will be a Ruger P-89 or a 1911 (either a Colt 1991 or SA MilSpec).

YMMV.

Wes

[WonderNine]

A FN version can be found in CDNN catalog fr 400 or so.

I don't think that's the Hi-Power he's referring too. And the Double Action "FN Hi-Power like guns" don't take BHP/FNHP magazines.


Con BHP / Pro 1911

2) .45 Reloads can be bought cheaper (and reloaded yourself MUCH cheaper) than 9mm Factory Ammo; few people bother to load 9mm therse days.

That's because 9mm's are already so cheap, why bother reloading???

$5 a 50rd box is not uncommon for S&B or Winchester WB and prices of $3.99 and less can be found if you hunt for specials.

I will probably be strung up and ridiculed for this option-buy an FEG Hi Power copy,remove the mag safety and see what you think.Can be done for $250.

I was gonna say $199, but it looks like SOG is sold out of the FEG's.

:(

I kinda wanted to pick one up.

I'll second the FEG suggestion. Just make sure you consider only the PJK-9HP. The other models are not true FN clones.

Pretty close, only real difference with the PJK-P9M is the redesigned barrel locking lugs. So it won't take standard BHP barrels. Whether this is good or not is open to interpretation as it was redesigned to prevent breakage. Big deal, it's a $199 gun! If you shoot out the barrel buy another one! :D

[WJR]

Buy a new rollmarked Colt Series 80. You will not regret it.

WJR

[varoadking]

BHP

[Sean Smith]

If you already have a CZ-75B, there is really no reason to get a HiPower unless you are truly craving one... they are pretty similar guns, and an out-of-the-box HP trigger will probably be worse than the one on your CZ.

[Josey]

Hey I bought a SA V10 Ultra Compact. I bought a BHP MKIII S. I bought a Llama 45. I bought a Colt M1991A1 45. I bought a Polish Radom. I kept the Colt M1991A1 for my CCW. I kept the Polish Radom as a neat pistol design. I am still trying to get my BHP MKIII S into a shooting condition. Mine is a POS.

[hillbilly]

Of course, the REAL answer to your question is to find a way to scrape up twice as much cash and GET BOTH!!!!!!!

Every one needs at least one example of two of John Moses Browning's genius in steel.

Donate Plasma, pick up aluminum cans on the highway, give up fast food for five months, do without cable TV for a while.

Just find a way to get both.


You won't be sorry you did.

hillbilly

[WonderNine]

I am still trying to get my BHP MKIII S into a shooting condition. Mine is a POS.

You know in all the gun forums I read this is the first comment I've ever heard like this. I'd really like to know what's wrong with it!

[HankB]

Ditto what WonderNine said. Enquiring minds want to know . . .

[Dobe]

Wondernine,
I sold my HP for the following reasons. It would not feed JHP's reliably, and after two trips to a gunsmith, the trigger was still unexceptable. That does not mean that I believe the HP is not a great handgun. It is. Perhaps the one that I had, or perhaps I was expecting too much. I may even get another one someday.

[Sean Smith]

Wrong gunsmith.

[Dobe]

No Sean, just accustom to inherently better triggers...............1911. I still feel that the HP is a good handgun.

[Poohgyrr]

The Hi Powers being made today have a great reputation for reliability. I read and post on a few boards, and rarely hear of any complaint at all, other than how the trigger pull improves after removing the mag disconnect. Everything I've read or heard says a MKIII should feed hollowpoints without problem. If I had one with feeding problems that my local 'smith couldn't fix, and it didn't turn out to simply be me (there are a few good pistols that I just don't do well with), it would go to someone like Yost.

[axeman_g]

I realized that the CDNN catalog has changed, but the FN HPs are still there.

I also relaized that the double action versions are most likely not what Peteinct in looking for ...but ...

the FN - HP w/ SFS is still there. I bought mine for $450 roughly.

I was wondering if you do not consider the FN -HP w/ SFS a TRUE HIPOWER or P35??????

I dont want to get into a pissin match here, I just want to learn and see if I should keep my comments to myself whenever somebody wants input on HPs.

[JonnyB]

I'm with the "get both" crowd. I have a Kimber ProCarry (alloy frame) and an Israeli FN HiPower. Both can easily outshoot me, and are (now) exceptionally reliable.

The HP came with an aftermarket mag that sucked, and the Kimber had a bad slide stop out of the box. Since correcting these, both shoot when asked.

The manual of arms is similar enough to make transitioning a simple matter.

I've just ordered the extended safety from Numrich for the HP; the Israelis specified the itty-bitty Mk1 safely, and it's a pain to use. I have no idea what I'm getting, but for $16, it's a small risk.

JB

[Matthew_Q]

I think everyone should have a 1911 in their stable. Get one, even a basic one, like the new Colt 1911A1 or the SA Milspec. They're great pistols. Get one. Love it.

[Dobe]

The Hi Powers being made today have a great reputation for reliability. I read and post on a few boards, and rarely hear of any complaint at all, other than how the trigger pull improves after removing the mag disconnect. Everything I've read or heard says a MKIII should feed hollowpoints without problem.

I couldn't agree more. The newer HP's have a different slope on the feed ramps from those made in the 70's for sure. It is a matter of what you like the most. I have had one, and may get another one day.

Buuuut, guess what I just ordered...a Kimber 1911 in 9mm. It will be late November or December before I get it. Target sights in a full size package, and that wonderful 1911 trigger. I can hardly wait. I guess that I had better make a few trips to Wal Mart to stock up on the Vaule Pak White Box.

[Lt. G]

Both are great weapons in their own right. Get a bunch of your gun friends together,(hopefully there will be a couple versions of each in the crowd),go to the range and check ou the weapons while having fun and fellowship
Best, Lt. G

[jacketch]

Any true dyed in the wool pistol shooter has to have a HiPower and a 1911. Buy either one and then get the other asap.

[Drifting Fate]

1911 is an American classic, the HP is a world classic.

You should have both, but if money is an issue, I have found the new, out of the box High Powers to be much more reliable than any stock 1911 (or any modified ones, either, but that's a debate for another time.)

As has been said in this thread - buy one and then buy the other as soon as you can.

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. Perhaps some of the information/opinion given via the links below will be of use. In the end, you will have to make the decision. Could I have but one 9mm between the two choices you mention, it would be a Hi Power......but, I wouldn't cry were it a 1911.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/1911in9mm.htm

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Accuracy.htm

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/MagazineSafety.htm

Best.

[Josey]

Hey My problems with this Browning Hi-Power to date are the following; the rear sight flew off with the first magazine fired through it. The grips are plastic and where they were removed, there are rough burrs that chew on my palms. The ambi safety is easily bumped off on my model. There was a definite dislike for Federal Hydra-Shok. The magazines are too tightly sprung resulting in FTF, FTE and doubling. This one has teething problems. I bought it to build into a CCW. I will be putting night sights, Hogue grips, a different safety set up and different mags into it. I will have it hardchromed when I get it reliable. NIB, no butchers, home gunsmiths or other tinkering done to it before I bought it. It is just a friday after 4 pistol.

[Dr.Rob]

Get both if you can.

On the FEG's the earliest models are true clones, the newer pjk9hp's have some cost cutting measures, namely a different slide cut and slide stop than a true clone. All other parts are interchangeable.

Both models can give you hammer bite. While the 1911's bite is solved with a new safety, the HP needs the hammer bobbed.

Both stock weapons are battle proven and tested for over 65 years, right out of the box with a new Browning or Colt you should be good to go. Better grips and sights are good things, as is beveling the mag wells, but both are good as is.

[nvcdl]

CDNN quoted me their too low to print price of $539 on the 9mm SFS version, I bought a new standard version for $500 from a local dealer.

I got a chance to dryfire a 40sw hi-power w/ factory SFS and it actually had
a very decent trigger, better the the SA. That said I am still prefer the single action tho the SFS may be better for carry as the hammer is down.

I realized that the CDNN catalog has changed, but the FN HPs are still there.

I also relaized that the double action versions are most likely not what Peteinct in looking for ...but ...

the FN - HP w/ SFS is still there. I bought mine for $450 roughly.

I was wondering if you do not consider the FN -HP w/ SFS a TRUE HIPOWER or P35??????

..

[Bren]

I'm a 1911 and BHP guy.

Buy a Steel, pre II Kimber.

The BHP cost too much now NIB and a Used or new Pre II Kimber will be just a few $$ more. EVERYONE must have at least one 1911 in the collection because they own the planet in versitility.

The pre II Kimber is my choice for the non tinkerer.

The MKIII would be a good choice if you can find a deal on a mint one (like $400, it may need a trigger job. The MKIII has a modern feed ramp and desent sights. The older BHP are good for the tinkerer who knows what to look for,,, modify the ramp, add sights and do a trigger.

If you have BHP questions go to www.fnhipower.com

Good luck. Bren

[PCRCCW]

Well, I agree with those who say get both...eventually. :D

If you want just one..rough choice. The BHP and 1911 are both very worthy of getting a good one right from the start.

I would look for either within your allocated budget and see what you run across....either one bought in good cond. for a great price is a worthy buy.

You can get the other at anytime. Shoot well

[FB3]

I have both hi powers and 1911 type pistols. I far prefer the 1911. They just feel much better in my hand, are more accurate for me, and are better looking to me. Nothing wrong with the hi power, but since you already have several 9mm, why not look at a new Colt 1991A1. Very well made, reliable, and really hold their value.

[nvcdl]

I agree - everyone should have a 1911. I went thru a half-dozen before I got a hi-power.

The new Colt 1991s and the Springfield Mil-Spec are good basic guns.

[Zenon]

My favorite pistol is my SA Loaded 1911 in 9MM. Accurate, reliable out of the box, cheap to shoot, and it feels great in my hand.

Everyone who shoots it wants one.

[WonderNine]

I dislike the chunky slide of the 1911 and the grip safety. Other than that, they seem like ok guns.

My favorite pistol is the BHP. Just about perfect.

[varoadking]

:D

[peteinct]

Thanks for the replies. I saw a used 1911a1 milspec and snapped it up. I've put 125 rounds through it no problems so far other than the hammer bite. It shoots Federal hollowpoints without a problem. It shoots alot differently from my CZ but I like it. So far I cant get my group size any where even close to my cz or S+W but I'll put 1000 rounds through it and then compare.
Those 45 rounds seem as big as my thumb!
pete