7.62x39 Golden Tiger vs "Russian Wolf" vs "Russian Military Classic"?


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ZombiesAhead
April 12, 2008, 12:40 AM
I need to pick up another 1,000 rounds of 7.62x39. I usually use AmmoMan and right now he has 3 types of 7.62x39 FMJ for $195-$199. What should I choose?

RUSSIAN 7.62X39 GOLDEN TIGER FMJ AMMO
124 GRAIN NON CORROSIVE
20 ROUNDS PER BOX - 1,000 ROUNDS PER CASE
http://www.ammoman.com/images2/TIGER.jpg


7.62x39 RUSSIAN WOLF FMJ
FULL METAL JACKET
NEW POLYMER COATING
20 ROUND BOXES NON CORROSIVE
http://www.ammoman.com/images/WOLF/762x39FMJ122GR.jpg


7.62X39 RUSSIAN MILITARY CLASSIC
FULL METAL JACKET
NON CORROSIVE BRAND NEW AMMO
100% NEW POLYMER COATING
http://www.ammoman.com/images2/762X39-MC2.jpg

I've used this "military classic" before with success. Any suggestions?

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nalioth
April 12, 2008, 12:50 AM
All three come from Russian ammo factorys.

Get the best deal.

MIL-DOT
April 12, 2008, 01:07 AM
Though most reports on wolf ammo are positive, i've read many more complaints about wolf than i ever have about GT.This goes back a couple years, on several firearm and AK-specific forums. But to be fair, i haven't shot ANY wolf ammo myself, but i've shot lots of GT through several different rifles, and split cases with friends. No problems at all for any of us . GT is also pretty widely reported to shoot cleaner and hotter than the wolf stuff, and is usually cheaper.

nathan
April 12, 2008, 01:16 AM
Golden Tiger for me. If you can get the HP, then much better. They expand very well on impact. Makes for a nasty wound on the intended target.

Mojo-jo-jo
April 12, 2008, 01:23 AM
I recently put 500 rounds of golden tiger through an SKS over two consecutive days without cleaning. I started getting FTE's (not every shot, but every now & then) in a hot gun after about 400 rounds.

Otherwise, I think I had one FTF, and that may have been due to out-of-battery (not sure though--primer strike was very light).

I don't think these are really bad results for cheap lacquer-coated ammo.

IMHO, all the Russian steel/lacquer stuff is really about the same. It even smells the same. AFAIK, they're all made (at least approximately) to Russian MIL-SPEC. Buy the cheapest.

Hoppy590
April 12, 2008, 01:33 AM
on several firearm and AK-specific forums.

aside from smelling like cat pee, wolf has NO problems in AK's and SKS's its those picky AR's (some AR's shoot it fine) that earn it a bad rep.

it seems to be a little bit under GT in the quality, but its much more widely available.

ZombiesAhead
April 12, 2008, 01:36 AM
I am personally a Wolf/cheap Russian Ammo devotee. While I can afford to shoot 5-round groups with expensive, brass-case stuff, I can't stock any significant quantity of it.

I'm less enthusiastic about the Golden Tiger because it doesn't say "polymer coated" and I don't want the lacquer-coated stuff. It is also $5 cheaper, and while I'm not sure what that says, I'd like the "good stuff" if I'm already in the very-cheap ammunition category.

I have not used Golden Tiger but I have used both Wolf Black Box and Wolf Military Classic successfully. I recall the black box cases being green and the military classic cases being pewter/dark gray.

Any difference currently between the two versions of Wolf? They are both polymer-coated which is the important thing for me.

Also, do you guys really run hollow points? As "just-in-case" (shtf) ammo, I want something that feeds for sure and thus I have always bought the FMJ's.

ZombiesAhead
April 12, 2008, 01:48 AM
Just realized the Black Box is 122 grain while the others are 124 grain. It's now between Golden Tiger and Military Classic.

DoubleTapDrew
April 12, 2008, 01:53 AM
Haven't tried GT but I'm liking the wolf mil classic (I also have some 154gr black box). From what I have read from various ballistic tests it uses a different (much better) bullet than most of the cheap stuff and actually tumbles, frags, and gets good penetration.

Haven't had any failure-to-anythings...but come on, it's an AK! You can use them as an axe and they'll beg for another spanking.

chupacabrah
April 12, 2008, 01:55 AM
military classic = lacquer coted
black box = new poly coating
golden tiger = lacquer (IIRC)


from what i've read, they all work great in AK's.

WMC diameter is .311, Wolf black box is .310. Golden tiger is .311.

Military classic is more to russian military standards, i think.
I would run any of them with confidence

ZombiesAhead
April 12, 2008, 01:56 AM
The Wolf MC also says "polymer coated." I'm ordering 1000 Wolf MC and 1000 Wolf 9mm.

DoubleTapDrew
April 12, 2008, 02:02 AM
My MC is poly coated. I don't think wolf uses lacquer anymore unless it's an old batch.

Mojo-jo-jo
April 12, 2008, 02:06 AM
Golden Tiger is lacquer coated. Wolf "Military Classic" is polymer coated.

In an AK or SKS, I don't think it really matters either way. Both were designed to shoot lacquer coated steel-case ammo.

The polymer may be better in an AR.

semper_fidelis
April 12, 2008, 08:38 PM
the reason is because of the polymer coat on the cases so we tried the golden tiger in both his and my sks's it work wonderful and is cheaper. P.S. he seems to think it is more accurate

guntotinguy
April 12, 2008, 08:47 PM
All 3 seems to shoot well in my AK's,SKS's,Saiga's and not ever a problem...I would prefer GT,but Wolf works 'just fine' (in both SKS's...Yugo and a Russian).I havent tried this ammo in my AR's...honestly wouldnt want to...

strat81
April 12, 2008, 08:53 PM
Golden Tiger FTW. My WASR loves it. Hits the 100yd plate with no problem if I do my part and I can't ask for more than that.

chris in va
April 12, 2008, 10:26 PM
I vote Golden Tiger. Never had a problem with it, but the Wolf primers are pretty hard and my CZ carbine had some issues setting them off. No problems with any in my Saiga. My SKS didn't like the hollowpoints.

LeibstandarteAdH
April 12, 2008, 10:35 PM
I put them in this order based on FTFire rates/DUDs:

Golden Tiger - Never had one
Wolf (regular, from TCW) - had 1
Wolf MC (Ulyanovosk in a wolf box) - had several

FTF's are what matter the most to me in these guns how i shoot them. THe accuarcy is only a tad bit worse with Golden tiger than the regular wolf, and seems to be the worst with the mil classic. The only thing i hate about most all of Tulas new output is that polymer coating that does not hold up as well in storage when damp ect..
Barnual beats them all in every catagory but you didnt ask. The "hot-shot" is as good as barnual in all the other ways, but with an M67 style projectile and the good old laqured cases. Its the best for all of my applications IMHO. Century has it on sale right now i think.

In your current case i would say go for the golden tiger by far.

gp911
April 13, 2008, 12:16 AM
Big Golden Tiger fan here... Love the stuff.

gp911

FEG
April 14, 2008, 05:12 PM
Even though this isn't the exact question asked, here is my answer:

Rank the Top 7.62x39 Commercial Brands:

1. Sellier & Bellot
2. Barnaul
3. Brown Bear/Silver Bear
4. Golden Tiger
5. Wolf (Tula Cartridge Works, black box)
6. Wolf Military Classic (Ulyanovsk, camo box)
7. Ulyanovsk (blue and white packaging, spam can)
8. Norinco


The Ulyanovsk I tried in the past was awful. The only thing worse is the semi-corrosive Norinco that smells like a cat peed on a radiator. The Wolf Military Classic, while pretty sucky, is at least better than the actual Ulyanovsk branded ammunition. I guess Wolf made them improve their QC.

R127
April 14, 2008, 06:18 PM
I didn't know Hot Shot was loaded with an M67 style projectile, I'll have to check some out. I definately agree about lacquer coated cases, they do WAY better against water than polymer. The worst coating is the zinc on Silver Bear. That stuff turns into a nasty powdery oxide very quickly and does nothing against moisture.

Funderb
April 14, 2008, 06:22 PM
golden tiger does not work in my yugo sks, it fte's a lot.

Works like love in my chinee norinco.
No arguments here. It's cheap and fun.

Norinco ammo, the copper wash steelcore stuff was always amazing in functionality and accuracy for me.
no wonder it's all but gone.

trickyasafox
April 14, 2008, 07:45 PM
wolf black box works best for me out of those three. I might be crazy but the lots of the military classic i've had feel less stout than the traditional black box.

High Planes Drifter
April 14, 2008, 10:01 PM
alex, I dont know if you orderd already, but J & G has Golden Tiger for 179.00 per K.

ZombiesAhead
April 14, 2008, 11:52 PM
Wow this thread just keeps going.

HPD - I did already order 1000 rounds Wolf MC 7.62 for $199 shipped and 1000 rounds Wolf Black Box 9mm for $150-$160 - Can't quite remember but now that the WWB jumped in price I'm trying something new for pistols/carbines as well.

Anyway, I've never tried Wolf 9mm but the Wolf MC 7.62 FMJ's have always worked great for me as stated above. I'm sticking with what I know. Sounds like some people really like GT but I just wasn't sure what the coating was on it and I wanted to make sure I got polymer not lacquer...

Scott7891
April 15, 2008, 11:16 PM
Golden Tiger all the way IMO. Never had a misfire in any of my SKS's and my Vz-58 EVER with GT!! Also way cheaper than Wolf where I am wherever I go. Had lots of misfires with Wolf so I am staying away from it. It is a win-win for me.

G17Steve
April 16, 2008, 01:54 AM
Ammoman cant be beat once you factor in shipping at other places.I honestly dont know how he does it.

alexd - Id like to know how that wolf 9mm runs in your guns when you find out.

Combatops1911
April 16, 2008, 02:03 AM
I went w/GT from Ammoman.

I also bought several cases of SP from Century - its on sale for $125.87 per 700 round sealed case. I bought 4 cases = $503.48 so I got the free shipping for orders over $500.

Snowdog
April 16, 2008, 02:05 AM
Norinco... now there's an ammunition brand I forgot almost entirely about. That "silver box" Chinese fodder was some of the most accurate cheap 7.62x39 I had ever run into. I still have a few boxes of the Norinco "Yellow box" steel core that I never got around to shooting. Norinco 9x18 95gr FMJs were also among the most accurate out of my Russian IJ-70. I sure do miss the stuff (especially paying $1.75 a box of 20 for the 7.62x39 at my local range).

As for the three options inquired about, I've run through hundreds of rounds of Golden Tiger and thousands of rounds of Wolf. Honestly, I really never could tell any difference between the two. I found both to be 100% reliable, equally as sooty and seemingly identical in accuracy. I'd personally buy whichever is on sale.

brentn
April 16, 2008, 02:12 AM
Snowdog, heh, looks like you liked "the thing" as much as I :D
Another great part is when he dumps his drink in his 10 000$ chessmaster computer LMAO
"cheatin bitch"

I have a crate of some czech stuff, any idea how good it rates. Its corrossive and i have 1120 rounds of it, it comes in white-blue cardboard boxes with two stripper clips loaded with ten rounds each. Its steel jacketed and steel cased and is a dark green in color.

200$ for a crate.

Anyone used this before? its what we have up here for 7.62X39 surplus up here.

G17Steve
April 16, 2008, 02:26 AM
While were talking ammo...I have 200rds of Ingman 7.62x39 I got in a trade. I have never seen the stuff you guys know anything about it ?

D94R
April 16, 2008, 02:33 AM
Haven't fired any Golden Tiger. But, my SKS has a problem with the black box Wolf, but cycles the Military Classic just fine. Kinda contrary to what others have posted in here but it is what it is.

Maybe an underpowered batch of black box?

Snowdog
April 16, 2008, 02:38 AM
brentn, I get a kick out folks who know the lines of The Thing as well as I do... it was such an underrated movie. :D

As for that Czech stuff, I remember buying half a case of Czech FMJ a few years ago and if memory serves me correctly, it was manufactured by S&B, steel case and indeed Berdan primed/corrosive. I only put it through a Chinese paratrooper SKS I used to have (and cleaned appropriately afterwards), though I distinctly remember it being surefire and quite accurate as I always find Sellier&Bellot ammunition to be. I remember this vividly as I made quite a few lemon-sized groups at the 100-yard mark with iron sights (I'm usually only capable of melon-sized groups an SKS, let alone a paratrooper model SKS). If it's this same fodder but packaged on stripper clips (mine weren't), other than requiring a couple extra minutes of cleaning afterwards, it's great stuff!

Snowdog
April 16, 2008, 02:44 AM
Steve,

Are you sure it's not "Igman"?

Igman is generally considered very nice Bosnian-manufactured ammunition that's typically brass cased, Boxer-primed and non-corrosive.
I'm sure it's been discussed on THR, so a search might yield additional info.

G17Steve
April 16, 2008, 01:36 PM
Snowdog,

Thats the stuff I miss spelled it.Thanks for the info.Ill search.I have yet to open it it came in (5 boxes)100rd bricks inside plastic bags.

FEG
April 16, 2008, 03:41 PM
As for that Czech stuff, I remember buying half a case of Czech FMJ a few years ago and if memory serves me correctly, it was manufactured by S&B, steel case and indeed Berdan primed/corrosive. I only put it through a Chinese paratrooper SKS I used to have (and cleaned appropriately afterwards), though I distinctly remember it being surefire and quite accurate as I always find Sellier&Bellot ammunition to be. I remember this vividly as I made quite a few lemon-sized groups at the 100-yard mark with iron sights (I'm usually only capable of melon-sized groups an SKS, let alone a paratrooper model SKS). If it's this same fodder but packaged on stripper clips (mine weren't), other than requiring a couple extra minutes of cleaning afterwards, it's great stuff!

Yep. The best 7.62x39 I have ever found is Sellier & Bellot in the commercial packaging. These came in 20 count, green boxes that looked more like a deck of playing cards, instead of your typical Russian "square" box. They had a gray polymer or phosphate coating, Berdan primed, noncorrosive, and no lacquer on the primers. I still have about 200 cartridges left. This was sold to me by Natchez Shooting Supply in 2002. I haven't seen any like it for sale since. I may try to post a picture, while I still have some to photograph.

MLee
April 16, 2008, 09:22 PM
Here's the link:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM640-46718-257.html

RockyMtnTactical
April 16, 2008, 09:25 PM
Wolf Sucks, it's my last resort ammo. Go with GT.

I like the S&B though too. I think AIM has an even better price than CTD though...

FEG
April 17, 2008, 12:57 PM
Thanks guys. I have been looking for it off and on for years now. The loads pictured are not identical to what I had, but it is obvious that this is the current version of the same basic product.

It's about $9/box though. I remember when I paid $3/box and hoped like heck it was worth the extra $1.50. Wow...

H2O MAN
April 17, 2008, 01:05 PM
I just picked up GT for $3.40 a box :)

J Star
April 17, 2008, 01:23 PM
The main "feature" of the Wolf Classic Military is the hardened primer. It's meant for mil-surp guns like the SKS. The harder primer is supposed to prevent slam-fires.

Other than that, MC and black box Wolf are the same price at Gander in my town: 5.99 a box.

I've shot tons of .223 Wolf through my mini-14 with no issues. I'm stockpiling 7.62 for the AK I have on order. It's cheap, and the only issues I had with my Ruger and ammo came from expensive Remington ammo, which constantly failed to feed and fire.

I only wish Gander carried Wolf 7.62x54R for my M44...

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