Looney gun nuts


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Cmdr. Gravez0r
April 12, 2008, 02:39 AM
If you poke around the intertubes much you find some antis making the argument that the RKBA military equivalancy argument is invalid, because "nobody can or will stand up to the government, and you're crazy to think you can."

Yeah. That's what they said in 1776.

Have a good weekend.

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protolith
April 12, 2008, 02:57 AM
One of the most valid reasons "nobody can or will stand up to the government, and you're crazy to think you can." Is the infringement on the 2A that has already occurred.
In Miller ,the SCOTUS ruled that a weapon had to have a valid militia use. This means military style arms. The '34 NFA essentially initiated a prohibitively expensive tax. The '86 NFA machine gun registry closure is the most egregious violation of the 2A. As a member of the unregulated militia, I'm supposed to have access to militia arms. The most contemporary select fire militia arms I have access to were manufactured more than 22 years ago.

Neutering the 2A is like having a bulldog with rubber teeth.

Winchester 73
April 12, 2008, 03:03 AM
(C)Looney gun nuts

I'll be right there with you on the barricades,Commander.

JCMAG
April 12, 2008, 03:06 AM
If, in that dreaded time of need, our rights are not so very different than they are now, I am confident that an army of 100 million with bolt action rifles could take on a modern military.

Getting 100 million to go Red Dawn on their tyrannical keisters is an entirely different matter altogether...

SsevenN
April 12, 2008, 03:32 AM
If the Gov. ever does pull a "hail Mary" on us citizens, communication will become difficult at best. That is the biggest problem I see with a armed citizen uprising, coordination of force will be delayed, to impossible. If an orchestrated attack is ever initiated. against us...

Winchester 73
April 12, 2008, 03:42 AM
biggest problem I see with a armed citizen uprising, coordination of force will be delayed, to impossible. If an orchestrated attack is ever initiated. against us...
__________________

The dreadful text messaging then becomes our friend.

mekender
April 12, 2008, 04:00 AM
you assume that any government action wouldnt immediately suspend all civilian cell phone useage...

packnrat
April 12, 2008, 08:05 AM
the only way to get the word out is a shtf happend is ham radio...aka short wave.

cost about $300 - $800. for a good multi band unit, with a peace of wire you can talk world wide.

if you are into code it can be done even cheeper.


set up/down quick and not visable to anyone.


.

Deanimator
April 12, 2008, 08:26 AM
If you poke around the intertubes much you find some antis making the argument that the RKBA military equivalancy argument is invalid, because "nobody can or will stand up to the government, and you're crazy to think you can."
Aren't these the same twits who say that the US military can't defeat the insurgency in Iraq?

Yep.

But then if you lie enough, it's tough to keep your lies consistent, isn't it?

yokel
April 12, 2008, 08:38 AM
Getting 100 million to go Red Dawn on their tyrannical keisters is an entirely different matter altogether...

This requires a fundamental understanding and acceptance that all their guns and ammo are in essense a part of the ways and means of preserving and extending their liberty.

After all, the Second Amendment is not merely about a gratifying hobby and recreational activity or intimidating burglars.

lacoochee
April 12, 2008, 09:00 AM
If the Gov. ever does pull a "hail Mary" on us citizens, communication will become difficult at best. That is the biggest problem I see with a armed citizen uprising, coordination of force will be delayed, to impossible. If an orchestrated attack is ever initiated. against us..

I've always thought that it would be far more likely for the military made up in large by men and woman from the South and Mid-West, to pull the "hail Mary", in which case I think it will be the Federal government and would be socialists who are in trouble. Just sayin....

LaEscopeta
April 12, 2008, 09:56 AM
Ordinary citizens in Iraq and Afghanistan seem to be causing a fair amount of damage against the US Government right now. History is full of examples of people rising up and overthrowing government forces, right up until today. The don’t always win but they do often enough to show an informed and intelligent person it is possible (Afghanistan throwing out the Soviets, East Timor getting independence from Indonesia, Nepal Communists getting a new constitution are 3 examples from the last 30 years of David beating Goliath.) Anyone who says it is impossible is either uninformed or stupid.

I think the key to success for the little guy is the willingness of large numbers of people to take causalities and endure hardships for a long period of time, while keeping up at least a low intensity of fighting.

Pat-inCO
April 12, 2008, 10:38 AM
Tin foil hat time :banghead:

Ithaca37
April 12, 2008, 10:57 AM
Insurgents across the world seem to be able to coordinate just fine. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan for starters.

32winspl
April 12, 2008, 01:08 PM
Other than Kent State, I don't recall any group of soldiers/Nat'l Guardsmen shooting U.S. citizens. Other govt agencies... well that's a different matter. One can only hope that our own soldiers would be very reluctant to fire on us.
But you have to be thinking about our willingness to be "law abiding citizens", because way before things got that far along, someone in power would have passed a new law... "Ladies and Gentlemen, turn them in". And we, being law-abiding", would mostly comply. Those of us that don't surrender our guns, are now, by definition, criminals, and subject to arrest or even worse.
I've given this a lot of thought over the years and to be honest, I still don't know how I'd respond.

chris in va
April 12, 2008, 02:25 PM
Ordinary citizens in Iraq and Afghanistan

I wouldn't refer to them as 'citizens' though.

And we, being law-abiding", would mostly comply. Those of us that don't surrender our guns, are now, by definition, criminals, and subject to arrest or even worse.


Yup.

Deanimator
April 12, 2008, 02:46 PM
Those of us that don't surrender our guns, are now, by definition, criminals, and subject to arrest or even worse.
And have literally nothing to lose.

As James Caan said (or words to that effect) in the movie "Thief", there's nothing more dangerous than a man who doesn't give a ****."

At that point, I wouldn't give a **** and pretty much anything would be on the table as a response.

I really enjoyed the movie "Michael Collins", especially the part where the "Black & Tans" learned about the nature of payback...

Hook686
April 12, 2008, 03:03 PM
Yesterday, 11:32 PM #5
SsevenN wrote:




If the Gov. ever does pull a "hail Mary" on us citizens, communication will become difficult at best. That is the biggest problem I see with a armed citizen uprising, coordination of force will be delayed, to impossible. If an orchestrated attack is ever initiated. against us...



I guess what I find so sad is that once a United States has also ment a united people. Today I listen to the words that seem to create an 'Us ... them, good guy ... bad guy, I'm right ... you're wrong, I'm smart ... you're dumb, I'm honorable ... you're deceitful, I'm brave ... you're a coward, ....' ... and not a damn thing you can do about it.

Wasn't there a movie along this theme a few years ago ? Does anyone recall the name of it ?

I am thinking that it is sad that this land of ours has become such a fractionated community.

whichfinger
April 12, 2008, 03:31 PM
Other than Kent State, I don't recall any group of soldiers/Nat'l Guardsmen shooting U.S. citizens.

There's your precedent.

Other govt agencies... well that's a different matter. One can only hope that our own soldiers would be very reluctant to fire on us.

I have the same hope, but I can't help thinking today's troops are largely products of our public schools. Probably don't want to dig too far into that can of worms, but naturalized citizens know more about this country's history and its Constitution than most of those who were born and "educated" here. Our "hope," I'm afraid, is akin to whistling in the dark as we walk past a graveyard. While many, possibly even most, will refuse to pull the trigger, I wonder how many more will simply cop to "I was just following orders." (We know who else tried that at Nuremburg, but then, they were the losers.)

mgregg85
April 12, 2008, 03:52 PM
Its sad to think about but if no one can stand up to our military, why have we lost so many young men in iraq?

v35
April 12, 2008, 05:00 PM
I am thinking that it is sad that this land of ours has become such a fractionated community.Hook, do you really think this is a recent phenomenon? The history of this country is characterized by many disparate groups that emigrated from all over the world. Before, during, and after the revolutionary war there existed a multitude of religious sects, few uniform laws, no uniform means of exchange, little economic base and a huge number of "loyalists" among the population - as in loyal to England and anti-Independence. New York and Boston were well-established British military bases.

The United States won independence for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was the onerous regime of a tyrannical King, who was as tyrannical in Europe as he was to the Colonies. Independence would not have been successful without the help of many who were supposed to be on his side, who lacked the conviction to defend their own corrupt government.

Few wars are fought with 100% support. Every era will have its Neville Chamberlain. Americans would like to forget that we joined the world turning our backs on Europe's plight until an egregious attack temporarily glued fractionated Americans together and made involvement inevitable (and there's no end to speculation it was intentional).

I don't mean to diminish the problems that face our society today but these same problems have been with us for centuries.

El Tejon
April 12, 2008, 05:06 PM
No one can stand up to the government?

How's fed.gov doing in Iraq and Afghanistan? Everything just ducky over there still, right?

Multiply Iraq by 40 to 60 times (great population base, more wealth, greater educatation levels, their enemy looks exactly like them, inter alia, ad naseum) and that's how fed.gov would do here.

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