Any update to Citi bank issue?


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Lovesbeer99
April 12, 2008, 08:16 AM
Any update to the response from Citibank regarding their position on the 2nd amendment? I have a Citi card and I may cancel it depending on how this turns out.

If you remember Citi bank canceled a legal gundealers account for selling guns on the internet.

Thanks
Steven

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Old Fuff
April 12, 2008, 10:32 AM
The dealer is CDNN Sports, located in Texas. (www.cdnnsports.org).

Their credit card processing account was canceled, and some $75000 in funds embargoed because First Data Corp., which operates Citi Merchant Services apparently thought that CDNN was selling handguns over the Internet and sending them directly to buyers who used credit cards to pay for the purchase. In truth, payment was made with credit cards, but shipment went from one federally licensed dealer to another. Citi had a previous history of being anti-gun, and refused to back down even after the circumstances of making a perfectly legal sale was explained to them.

The National Shooting Sports Association (NSSA), which represents the firearms industry, got involved, and now CDNN has a new credit card processor that is either pro-gun or neutral on firearms issues. A lawsuit against Citi Merchant Services may or may not be in the works, but it is under consideration.

Meanwhile a substantial number of firearms related business have switched away from Citi Merchant Services while a large number of individuals have cancelled their credit cards, both on principal and because many firearms related businesses might have to decline payment from a purchaser that was buying a firearm using a card where the payment was processed by Citi Merchant Services. It is quite possible that some or all of the cards you have were issued by banks or whoever that use Citi Merchant Services to process the transactions.

What you do as an individual is up to you, but if you choose to cancel any cards or accounts be sure that the issuer or account provider knows why you are taking the action.

As a side note, I understand that Citi now plans to split off Citi Merchant Services from their regular banking and other divisions.

If you want to learn more about CDNN, go to their website (see the above link) and download their catalog. Firearms are only listed in their print catalog, which you can order at no charge.

Lovesbeer99
April 15, 2008, 06:57 PM
Thanks OldFluff. That was exactly the story I was referring to, but I haven't seen any updates and I was wondering if Citi reversed it's position.
Other than the obvious Citi bank card that I have (at least for now) how do I know if my card uses citi merchant services?

Thanks again
STeven

Old Fuff
April 15, 2008, 07:06 PM
If Ctit has changed their stand they haven't gone public with an anouncement. They're located in New York so they're never wrong... :rolleyes:


Other than the obvious Citi bank card that I have (at least for now) how do I know if my card uses citi merchant services?

You can call or e-mail who ever issued the card and ask. Contact information should be on your statement. If you do talk to someone tell them exactly why you're asking. :evil:

The NRA also offers a credit card, and the bank that issues it does not use Citi to process charges.

Atla
April 19, 2008, 11:44 AM
No one should buy a gun with a credit card in the first place.

JWarren
April 19, 2008, 11:58 AM
No one should buy a gun with a credit card in the first place.


Why? After all, we aren't necessarily talking about buying "on credit." We are talking about electronic commerce.

I've bought several firearms using electronic commerce. And I've never used debt. This isn't about credit-- its about controlling the flow of money and commerce.

As for a "paper trail," well, unless you are going FTF, there already is one. And you can bet that a FTF seller has a record of who bought a firearm if they ever get the feds show up ready to haul them off...

-- John

Atla
April 19, 2008, 01:10 PM
Because it ADDS to your paper trail.

In NC we have to give someone a Pistol Purchase Permit when we do a FTF deal on a pistol. It is much more difficult for the government to find out what firearms you have by tracing a paper trail with numerous gaps in it, than simply calling up your credit card agency and demanding a list of your buys.

It's safer to use cash.

wally
April 19, 2008, 01:12 PM
About twice a month I get a credit card solicitation From CITI. I use the postage paid return envelope to tell them exactly why I won't carry a Citibank card!

--wally.

TexasRifleman
April 19, 2008, 02:05 PM
Citi is a little bit busy at the moment.

They just posted a $5.1 BILLION dollar loss for the quarter.

Not that they will feel the loss but I cancelled my Citibank Visa that I've had for over 10 years.

They probably won't survive much longer anyway, someone will buy them out.

JWarren
April 19, 2008, 02:10 PM
They just posted a $5.1 BILLION dollar loss for the quarter.

... I cancelled my Citibank Visa that I've had for over 10 years.

Exactly HOW much debt were you carrying with them??? hehe.


Couldn't help myself....


-- John

Robert Hairless
April 19, 2008, 02:15 PM
I have a Citi card and I may cancel it depending on how this turns out.

You'll wait until you know who wins the battle before deciding whether to participate in it?

JWarren
April 19, 2008, 02:21 PM
You'll wait until you know who wins the battle before deciding whether to participate in it?

I have to agree with Robert in this. At this point, the ball is in their court to GET my business, not to retain it.

If I am truly convinced that they made a mistake, regret it, AND make it right, I would consider doing business with them in the future.

But I would not do business with them while waiting to see. That hardly gives them an incentive to do anything.


-- John

Pat-inCO
April 19, 2008, 02:33 PM
Because it ADDS to your paper trail.
Not really. The charge that is seen by the credit card business lists an invoice number, a purchase price and tax paid. No description = no problem.

You leave a far larger "trail" in NY. You have NICS and the NY permit to buy (BOTH of which are government controlled) and the permit to buy is tied directly to a specific purchase.

Sorry, I'm not worried in the least. :rolleyes:

Marktaylor99
April 19, 2008, 06:35 PM
This is a little off topic, but-
If you use a credit card and pay it off every month (paying no interest) you are actually COSTING the credit card company money. They earn a few hundredths of a cent on each transaction you make (through interchange fees charged to the merchant) but the cost of printing & mailing your statement, maintaining customer service phone lines, ect. outweigh the interchange fees greatly. Not to mention if you have one of the cards that earn "points" you can redeem for gifts cards or cash back.
So maybe we should all get a Citi Credit Card, use it and pay off the balance every month!!!

hotpig
April 19, 2008, 07:11 PM
Credit Card companies charge the merchant a fee plus % for every transaction. They make money even when you pay in full every month.

The processing service also charges a monthly fee, transaction fee,various nickle and dime fees plus % per transaction.

It is not cheap to accept credit cards. This is why some merchants give cash discounts.

JWarren
April 19, 2008, 07:19 PM
Credit Card companies charge the merchant a fee plus % for every transaction. They make money even when you pay in full every month.

The processing service also charges a monthly fee, transaction fee,various nickle and dime fees plus % per transaction.

It is not cheap to accept credit cards. This is why some merchants give cash discounts.



Exactly.


This is why I never use a card for low-cost transactions. I know a store owner that has had people use a card for a $0.73 purchase. They told me it would have been cheaper if they just gave the person the merchandise.


-- John

joebogey
April 19, 2008, 09:49 PM
I got mine payed off and closed it out tonight. When I called, the young lady at Citi was very nice and asked why after 17 years I was closing the account. When I explained why I was closing, she asked if maybe when I wanted to buy a gun online,they could simply send me a check to buy it with and skip the card process. LOL
I thanked her very much for the offer and explained that it was a matter of principal. She was very apologetic, and I assured her it had to do with Citi policy and nothing she had done.

Robert Hairless
April 19, 2008, 09:53 PM
I got mine payed off and closed it out tonight. When I called, the young lady at Citi was very nice and asked why after 17 years I was closing the account. When I explained why I was closing, she asked if maybe when I wanted to buy a gun online,they could simply send me a check to buy it with and skip the card process. LOL
I thanked her very much for the offer and explained that it was a matter of principal. She was very apologetic, and I assured her it had to do with Citi policy and nothing she had done.

Powerful and effective. Well done, Joe.

Gator
April 19, 2008, 10:07 PM
I was wondering if Citi reversed it's position.

No, and they won't. I wish I had a Citi card just so I could cancel it! Why are you waiting? There are a lot of credit card companies out there who are at least neutral on the subject, there is no reason to support a company who goes out of their way to be hostile to gun owners.

Dick1911
April 20, 2008, 07:12 AM
I did use my Citibank card to purchase a new pistol from CDNN a couple of months ago - just to see what would happen. The charge went through, but they put a hold on my card due to possible unauthorized use...and didn't even notify me :eek:

I had to call them to see what was wrong when my next purchase was not approved.

It will not be renewed. :mad:

22-rimfire
April 20, 2008, 07:36 AM
If you have a number of cridit cards, you should be aware that CITI issues credit cards under other names.

Frankly, I would not like to see Citi Bank be sold off. Too much banking being concentrated with too few companies. I have never had a problem with a CITI backed card. They seem to run a pretty efficient operation and don't pull as many tricks as some of the other banks. Late on a payment.... we are so so sorry... your rate is now 36%, read your contract... etc.

Old Fuff
April 20, 2008, 10:36 AM
If Citi ends up going bust and being sold to another stronger bank, it won’t be because of us. They and other banks are in deep trouble because of some stupid blunders they made while playing in the sub-prime mortgage market.

Our beef is different: For some time this outfit has been known for an anti-gun attitude, but things came to a head when they canceled a credit card processing contract with CDNN Sports, a well known Texas firearms distributor/dealer. Their excuse was that CDNN was making illegal interstate gun sales, paid for with credit cards. This was easily proven to be pure bull, while CDNN was indeed making interstate sales and deliveries, the guns were shipped to FFL dealers in the buyer’s state of residence, and not directly to that person.

This was annoying because it appears that only the firearms industry, and its distributors, dealers and customers were being singled out, but insult became injury when they embargoed some $75,000 of CNNN’s money, saying that this was necessary to protect themselves against charges resulting from supposed fraudulent use of credit cards by CDNN’s alleged illegal customers. Again there was no evidence that this was true.

The National Shooting Sports Association (NSSA) that represents the firearms industry tried to straighten the matter out, but with no luck. Citi stood firm in their rightness. That’s when many of those who are involved with firearms in one way or another started telling Citi where they could go and take their credit accounts and cards with them.

I don’t make a practice of supporting anti-gun businesses with my money – at least when I know about it. I also don’t want to find that I can’t use my card to conduct business with a company because the credit card charge processor doesn’t happen to like the business they're in.

I am delighted to report that CDNN has a new charge processor that is either pro-gunrights or neutral. Business is now going on normally. Credit cards are available from a number of issuers that don’t want to backstab the gun industry, including the National Rifle Association (NRA).

What one does with their business or personal finances is their business, but I would ask; “Why support our enemies rather then our friends simply because the former might offer a good rate?” That’s sort of like looking for a good buy on ammunition while a firing squad is forming up with you being the object of their attention…

Last but not least, I wouldn’t want any of my money in a financial institution that I thought might be going under…

Bones11b
April 20, 2008, 03:43 PM
Citi is a little bit busy at the moment.

They just posted a $5.1 BILLION dollar loss for the quarter.

Not that they will feel the loss but I cancelled my Citibank Visa that I've had for over 10 years.

They probably won't survive much longer anyway, someone will buy them out.
Oh they are feeling it alright, lay offs have already started. I just started at a new job for a forex firm and we have Bloomberg T.V. piped into the office all day. Old Fuff is right (as usual) in that Citi Group is in serious financial straights as of late due to the sub-prime mortage market. With all that's going on I'm sure a rash of persons canceling their Citi Bank credit cards due to their unfavorable practice towards the firearm community would be noticed.

garymc
April 20, 2008, 03:59 PM
My Quicken Visa card was a Citi card. They just sent me a letter saying it was changing to Chase Card Services. I had quit using it, but had yet to cancel it because of the Quicken connection. It says Chase Bank USA, N.A., located in Wilmington Delaware.

TexasRifleman
April 20, 2008, 04:10 PM
They and other banks are in deep trouble because of some stupid blunders they made while playing in the sub-prime mortgage market.

Well I believe it's more a case of financial Darwinism than stupidity.

If you intentionally loan money to someone to buy a house who can't possibly show you on paper how they can ever pay it back, that's it way past stupidity. Citi, Bear Stearns, etc. They don't deserve to survive.

They intentionally cashed in on the financial ignorance of many Americans and now they reap the whirlwind. I'm OK with that......

Firethorn
April 20, 2008, 05:57 PM
Credit Card companies charge the merchant a fee plus % for every transaction. They make money even when you pay in full every month.

Again, this is true. I'm considered a very valuable customer for my main CC, around $1k is put on it each month, then paid off in full.

The processing service also charges a monthly fee, transaction fee,various nickle and dime fees plus % per transaction.

Depends on the merchant, but true. Somebody the size of Walmart might pay only a percentage, perhaps a few pennies per charge. Some smaller companies might have to pay $100/month for the privilege, $1 per charge, PLUS the percentage.

Still, as I understand it once you get much above medium mall store, it's actually often cheaper than processing cash. With cash you have to keep registers stocked, employ people and machines to count it, deal with counterfeit, etc...

hotpig
April 20, 2008, 07:06 PM
Charging varies with the type of business.

I'm considered hi risk being a moto merchant. I take credit cards via phone and internet and never see the customer or card in person. If I swipe the card at the register my % fee is cut in half.

I pay 46.00 per month for the sevice plus .25 transaction fee, .05 AVS fee and a.05 watt fee per transaction. The % fee runs from 2.5 to 5.0% depending on the card and some other variable that I do not understand.

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