Va. Grants 60% More Permits For Guns...


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Jolly Rogers
April 12, 2008, 11:45 AM
The Washington Post published an article this morning in the Metro section. Note the cut and paste would load all the ads too so here is the link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/11/AR2008041103711.html
The Post requires an email addy and password login but it is painless and hasn't resulted in spam.
Kind of a non hysterical slant and I find this refreshing in the Post (known for a liberal bent)
Joe

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Spyvie
April 12, 2008, 11:49 AM
Va. Grants 60% More Permits For Guns
Concealed-Carry Surge Tied to Va. Tech Killings

By Tom Jackman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, April 12, 2008; Page B01

The number of Virginians who obtained a permit to carry a concealed weapon jumped 60 percent last year over 2006, an increase that many gun experts say was a reaction to the fatal shootings of 32 students and professors at Virginia Tech.


Va. Grants 60% More Permits For Guns
2007 Increase
Gun Legislation in the U.S. By State
In Northern Virginia, the numbers were much the same. In Fairfax County, there were 2,471 concealed-carry permits issued in 2007, a 64 percent increase. In Prince William County, the number rose to 1,636, a nearly 59 percent gain. In Loudoun, the number of permits issued was 962, a 52 percent increase.

People applying for a concealed-weapon permit do not have to explain why they want one. But most experts think the Virginia Tech shootings, in which a heavily armed student met no resistance as he went from classroom to classroom firing, could explain the sudden increase in applications.

Some gun rights supporters noted that the university had lobbied against legislation that would have required colleges to honor concealed-carry permits.

"They wanted to create an environment where students and faculty can feel safe," said Joel Kliesen, manager of the Dominion Shooting Range in Richmond. "A lot of folks would rather be safe than feel safe."

The shooting incidents in turn create more publicity about gun-related issues and probably inspire more people to arm themselves, gun control supports said. Both gun-control activists and members of law enforcement noted that those people who take the time to get a permit are largely law-abiding and unlikely to commit a crime.

Gun stores report increased sales and increased participation in training classes. Completing a firearms safety class as well as a background check are prerequisites for obtaining a concealed weapons permit in Virginia. Permits are issued by the state's circuit courts and are good for five years, but they can be renewed if there is no good cause to refuse the renewal.

"More people are wanting guns," said Robert Jensen, a salesman at Virginia Arms in Manassas. "They're not believing the myth that guns cause crime. It's like saying flies cause trash. We've got more people doing competitive shooting and more people taking defensive training, and that's all around the gun industry."

The number of people approved to carry concealed weapons in Virginia has gone up and down in recent years. In 2002, a year after the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, the number of permits granted went up almost 100 percent, from about 15,000 to more than 30,000. But the annual number soon drifted down into the 20,000s until 2007, when it shot up to 43,927. The rise was first reported yesterday in the Virginian-Pilot newspaper.

State police said that more than 152,000 people currently hold valid concealed-carry permits. In addition to concealed carrying, openly carrying a weapon is legal in Virginia and is done regularly by gun rights activists.

"People are realizing that it's not just crazy people out there carrying guns, it's everyday people," said Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. "The stigma that developed in the '80s and '90s about guns, that's died down tremendously."

Van Cleave pointed out that student groups that favor concealed-carry laws on college campuses have grown rapidly, first after Virginia Tech and then again after the shooting at Northern Illinois University in February. A student group at George Mason University in Fairfax is working for the right to carry concealed guns there.

James Plowman, the commonwealth's attorney of Loudoun County, noted that Virginia is "the opposite of D.C., where everybody who's carrying a gun is either a police officer or a criminal" because of laws largely prohibiting gun ownership. "That restriction hasn't really helped out their crime situation much. All you're doing is hamstringing the people who want to protect themselves."

Ladd Everitt, spokesman for the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, said Virginia had not done enough to keep guns out of criminals' hands in the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings. "I think what we should be more concerned about is the next Cho can still get guns," referring to Seung Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech gunman.

Kliesen said he saw greatly increased interest in guns for self-defense after the Harvey family was killed at home on New Year's Day 2006 in Richmond. "A lot of folks are realizing that, as much as the police would like to be there," Kliesen said, "the only person you can guarantee will be there if you're ever victimized by a criminal is . . . you."

Jolly Rogers
April 12, 2008, 11:52 AM
Thanks Spyvie...Some day I'll learn to do that:D thanks for sifting out the trash.
Joe

7mmsavage
April 12, 2008, 01:02 PM
Way to go Virginians. Over 150,000 strong! I'm just sorry that it took so many tragedies for people to catch on. You just don't get to choose where something terrible is going to happen. The wife and I were watching a report one evening about a girl who fought off an ubduction when her car broke down and left her stranded. A local news station ran a special on how to defend yourself in a similar situation. They said use your keys or a pen or pencil as a weapon. No mention at all of actually carrying a weapon. :confused:

XLMiguel
April 12, 2008, 01:59 PM
Last time I looked, VA had a population of approximatel 11 million people, so 150,000 permits is only about 1.4% of the population with permits. That doesn't cover all the gun owners who don't have permits and either don't CCW or open carry. The good news is that 1.4% is probably enough to keep the bad guys guessing, eh?

chris in va
April 12, 2008, 02:08 PM
You've got to be kidding me. The Washington Post published that positive article?? Only one brief mention of a gun control advocate? I'm very shocked, and pleased.

"They wanted to create an environment where students and faculty can feel safe," said Joel Kliesen, manager of the Dominion Shooting Range in Richmond. "A lot of folks would rather be safe than feel safe."

Definitely the best statement I've heard in a while.

Actually, it wasn't so much positive as it was simply good reporting. Anyone have the writer's email?

yhtomit
April 12, 2008, 03:53 PM
You've got to be kidding me. The Washington Post published that positive article?? Only one brief mention of a gun control advocate? I'm very shocked, and pleased.


I am half-kidding (but only half!) to note that you're wrong about that ;)

They actually noted without snarkiness the opinions of gun-control advocates Joel Kliesen, Robert Jensen, Philip Van Cleave and James Plowman, as well as the petulant nonsense of evident dunderhead Ladd Everitt ...

I hate to cede the useful phrase "gun control" to the prohibitionists, hand-wringers, and top-downers. They're more into "people control."

timothy

CBS220
April 12, 2008, 05:10 PM
A great article. It could have used more input from the antis to truly be "balanced", but it was at the least a truthful article.

DCoats
April 12, 2008, 05:18 PM
What a fantastic article. Thanks for the link.

JohnBT
April 12, 2008, 08:31 PM
"Last time I looked, VA had a population of approximatel 11 million"

Closer to 7.5.

When I read the article this morning I wondered if their license numbers included renewals or just first time applicants.

John

romma
April 12, 2008, 11:18 PM
Great article!

Winchester 73
April 13, 2008, 01:47 AM
closer to 7.5 million

That is correct:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/51000.html

Craig_VA
April 13, 2008, 03:58 AM
In terms of percent of population with carry permits.... my read of John Lott's work is that what makes a difference is being a shall issue CC jurisdiction. Based on the numbers, the deterrence of violent crimes comes when the bad guys do not know who is carrying, but only that some folks could be. The reduction in crime rate occurs even in the flrst year of shall issue laws, when the percent of population with permits it tiny. As the percent of permit issue goes up, the reduction in violent crimes does not change appreciably. The bad guys appear not to calculate odds on whether a CC is present based on percent of permits issued. They just react to the fact that any law abiding citizen can get one because it is shall issue.

interestingly, neither open carry nor may issue CC laws have the same affect on crime rates as shall issue laws do. The numbers go down only when there is shall issue law.

craig

Tribal
April 13, 2008, 04:33 AM
<--part of that 60% increase.

Actually, when I got my CHP the lady behind the counter (who, incidentally was cute) mentioned that they'd had a huge spike in applications (in Fairfax County, no less!) and wanted to know if there had been a big rally or something recently.

armedandsafe
April 13, 2008, 06:39 PM
the Virginia Tech shootings, in which a heavily armed student met no resistance as he went from classroom to classroom firing,

That comment, made by the author of the article impressed me the most. There could be so many ways to phrase that which would be demeaning or dismissing of the situation and he chose to include "met no resistance as he went from classroom to classroom firing." Bravo.

Pops

USMC 1975
April 13, 2008, 07:34 PM
The very best quote of the entire article:

" the only person you can guarantee will be there if you're ever victimized by a criminal is . . . you."

Thank God someone understands and knows how to verbalize it in one sentence.

Chris

Rumble
April 13, 2008, 10:02 PM
" the only person you can guarantee will be there if you're ever victimized by a criminal is . . . you."

That is a great quote. He musta had that one filed away for just such a moment!

dmazur
April 15, 2008, 04:22 AM
The only problem with the quote

"A lot of folks are realizing that, as much as the police would like to be there," Kliesen said, "the only person you can guarantee will be there if you're ever victimized by a criminal is . . . you."

is that it says the police would like to be there. Recent rulings (no I don't have a link...) have been along the lines that the police do not have an obligation to protect you. So, regardless of an officer's personal desires, his department's policy doesn't require him to try to keep you from being hurt.

The police are required to investigate crime, and try to put together evidence to apprehend/convict those who commit them. That is an after the fact service. (You're already hurt...)

Maybe someday the media will admit this. The article is a good one, though.

chris in va
April 15, 2008, 05:03 AM
Recent rulings (no I don't have a link...) have been along the lines that the police do not have an obligation to protect you

Not that recent. Predates the DC gun ban by a year IIRC.

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