Medal of Honor questions


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Byron Quick
April 12, 2008, 11:02 PM
I've been perusing this Medal of Honor website http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html and a few questions have come to my mind.

It seems the military is tightening up on giving the medal for one thing. One in Afghanistan and three in Iraq after five years of war? And you've got to go all the way back to Vietnam to find a recipient who survived.

Also, the Medal of Honor was sometimes given during peacetime for non-combat heroism up until 1940. What changed?

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coondawg47
April 12, 2008, 11:15 PM
From my understanding the Navy gave the medal during peacetime for extreme acts of heroism at sea. The Army never gave the Medal during peacetime. I don't remember exactly why they changed (some kind of review). There are also some double winners of the Medal, all WWI or before.

siglite
April 12, 2008, 11:16 PM
Dan Daley and Smedley Butler. Hoorah!

buck00
April 12, 2008, 11:21 PM
It seems the military is tightening up on giving the medal for one thing. One in Afghanistan and three in Iraq after five years of war? And you've got to go all the way back to Vietnam to find a recipient who survived.

Off the top of my head, I can tell you they used to give out the Medal of Honor pretty casually in the 19th and early 20th century.

http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html

A few examples:

BRAS, EDGAR A.

Rank and organization: Sergeant, Company K, 8th Iowa Infantry. Place and date: Spanish Fort, Ala., 8 April 1865. Entered service at: Louisa County, Iowa. Birth: Jefferson County, Iowa. Date of issue: 8 June 1865. Citation: Capture of flag.

He captured a flag. Awesome- this was a HUGE deal back then, but what do we really know about it? Was his guts hanging out? Did he dive on a grenade to save his comrades? I'm not trying to single out Bras here, but it makes you think.

Another:

JOHNSON, ANDREW

Rank and organization: Private, Company G, 116th Illinois Infantry. Place and date: At Vicksburg, Miss., 22 May 1863. Entered service at: Assumption, Ill. Birth: Delaware County, Ohio. Date of issue: 9 August 1894. Citation. Gallantry in the charge of the "volunteer storming party."

I noticed many of these where men got the Medal of Honor for either capturing a flag or volunteering for a storming party.

I am not trying to take anything away from these soldiers who fought bravely, its just you notice the sacrifices got more intense as time went on. The ante was raised by WWI, and I know they even demanded some people give up their medals (including a woman spy, Ann Walker).

However, at the same time General MacArthur got a Medal of Honor, which many today would question. This was like Stalin and some of the Soviet generals showering themselves with medals, while the 18 year olds were the ones fighting and dying. :uhoh:


By Vietnam you had to do more than volunteer for a storming party. You had to do something above and beyond, save others, keep fighting while badly wounded, etc, to even be considered. (see below)

Today, it is even more difficult to earn, which makes the honor that much higher. I think this is the way it should be.


RASCON, ALFRED V.

Rank and organization: Specialist Fourth Class, U.S. Army, Reconnaissance Platoon, Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion (Airborne), 503rd Infantry,173d Airborne Brigade (Separate) Place and date: Republic of Vietnam, 16 March 1966 Born: 1945, Chihuahua, Mexico Citation: Specialist Four Alfred Rascon, distinguished himself by a series of extraordinarily courageous acts on 16 March 1966, while assigned as a medic to the Reconnaissance Platoon, Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion (Airborne), 503rd Infantry, 173d Airborne Brigade (Separate). While moving to reinforce its sister battalion under intense enemy attack, the Reconnaissance Platoon came under heavy fire from a numerically superior enemy force. The intense enemy fire from crew-served weapons and grenades severely wounded several point squad soldiers. Specialist Rascon, ignoring directions to stay behind shelter until covering fire could be provided, made his way forward. He repeatedly tried to reach the severely wounded point machine-gunner laying on an open enemy trail, but was driven back each time by the withering fire. Disregarding his personal safety, he jumped to his feet, ignoring flying bullets and exploding grenades to reach his comrade. To protect him from further wounds, he intentionally placed his body between the soldier and enemy machine guns, sustaining numerous shrapnel injuries and a serious wound to the hip. Disregarding his serious wounds he dragged the larger soldier from the fire-raked trail. Hearing the second machine-gunner yell that he was running out of ammunition, Specialist Rascon, under heavy enemy fire crawled back to the wounded machine-gunner stripping him of his bandoleers of ammunition, giving them to the machine-gunner who continued his suppressive fire. Specialist Rascon fearing the abandoned machine gun, its ammunition and spare barrel could fall into enemy hands made his way to retrieve them. On the way, he was wounded in the face and torso by grenade fragments, but disregarded these wounds to recover the abandoned machine gun, ammunition and spare barrel items, enabling another soldier to provide added suppressive fire to the pinned-down squad. In searching for the wounded, he saw the point grenadier being wounded by small arms fire and grenades being thrown at him. Disregarding his own life and his numerous wounds, Specialist Rascon reached and covered him with his body absorbing the blasts from the exploding grenades, and saving the soldier's life, but sustaining additional wounds to his body. While making his way to the wounded point squad leader, grenades were hurled at the sergeant. Again, in complete disregard for his own life, he reached and covered the sergeant with his body, absorbing the full force of the grenade explosions. Once more Specialist Rascon was critically wounded by shrapnel, but disregarded his own wounds to continue to search and aid the wounded. Severely wounded, he remained on the battlefield, inspiring his fellow soldiers to continue the battle. After the enemy broke contact, he disregarded aid for himself, instead treating the wounded and directing their evacuation. Only after being placed on the evacuation helicopter did he allow aid to be given to him. Specialist Rascon's extraordinary valor in the face of deadly enemy fire, his heroism in rescuing the wounded, and his gallantry by repeatedly risking his own life for his fellow soldiers are in keeping with the highest traditions of military service and reflect great credit upon himself, his unit, and the United States Army.

siglite
April 12, 2008, 11:28 PM
I've read a lot of those citations. I think the citations got a lot more detailed later. Some of the earlier (civil war) ones are very brief, and may not include all the details like the modern ones do. For example, Custer (George's younger brother) was shot in the face and still got the confederate flag, AND returned it to the union side. And after that, George had to have him arrested to keep him from getting back into the fight. Custer's lil bro was a serious hard-charger.

Gunnerpalace
April 13, 2008, 12:38 AM
Read about Charles Kelly, awesome story for action, I mostly remember it because he was using 84mm mortar rounds as grenades.

For Heroism I mostly remember Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon, but Paul Smith comes to mind as well.

Baba Louie
April 13, 2008, 12:39 AM
Sgts Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon, post Vietnam, pre this WOT action... hard chargers who knew what they were getting into and went anyway.

Valor beyond the call.

RNB65
April 13, 2008, 12:43 AM
I hate reading MOH citations. I can never get to the end of one without my vision being too blurry from tears to continue reading.
-

Treo
April 13, 2008, 12:51 AM
If I remember right Boyington got one for his "aggressive leadership style" while commanding the 214th. He apparently didn't think too much of the medal , merited 2 paragraphs in his book.

EDITED TO ADD
I went back and checked the citation and I was wrong about what Boyington was given the medal for ( Citation below)

I do, however, stand behind the comment that he wasn't all that impressed W/ the medal. In his book he calls it a "booby prize" and states that it was gathering dust on a shelf in his garage.

Citation
or extraordinary heroism and valiant devotion to duty as commanding officer of Marine Fighting Squadron 214 in action against enemy Japanese forces in the Central Solomons area from 12 September 1943 to 3 January 1944. Consistently outnumbered throughout successive hazardous flights over heavily defended hostile territory, Maj. Boyington struck at the enemy with daring and courageous persistence, leading his squadron into combat with devastating results to Japanese shipping, shore installations, and aerial forces. Resolute in his effortso inflict crippling damage on the enemy, Maj. Boyington led a formation of 24 fighters over Kahili on 17 October and, persistently circling the airdrome where 60 hostile aircraft were grounded, boldly challenged the Japanese to send up planes. Under his brilliant command, our fighters shot down 20 enemy craft in the ensuing action without the loss of a single ship. A superb airman and determined fighter against overwhelming odds, Maj. Boyington personally destroyed 26 of the many Japanese planes shot down by his squadron and, by his forceful leadership, developed the combat readiness in his command which was a distinctive factor in the Allied aerial achievements in this vitally strategic area.

scrat
April 13, 2008, 12:57 AM
Sad part about the MOH is that most guys that got them were KIA

Byron Quick
April 13, 2008, 01:09 AM
Off the top of my head, I can tell you they used to give out the Medal of Honor pretty casually in the 19th and early 20th century.

It was given for things in the Civil War that it would not be given for today.

However, you're mistaken about the gallantry involved in capturing an enemy flag at that time. Both sides took the protection of their flags and banners darned seriously. Think about how closely packed their formations were. Then think about entering one of those formations to capture their colors while the entire unit tries to kill you to prevent that capture.

Also, the other soldier did not receive the Medal of Honor for volunteering for a storming party. He received the medal for "gallantry in the charge of the volunteer storming party." There's a big difference even though the citation does not go into the specifics of the gallantry mentioned.

catfish101
April 13, 2008, 01:23 AM
In the days of the American revolution and the Civil war the Standards or Guidons were very important to the units. They were like drummer boys. They were used to make several signals to the units men.

CWL
April 13, 2008, 01:32 AM
Standards were very important.

The "colors" represented the life of the unit. Troops needed to be able to see it and rally around otherwise the unit would lose cohesion and very-likely rout in the face of battle. There was real battlefield value to capturing the flags of enemies.

Because a standard represented the "life" of the unit, loss of the flag was considered so dishonorable that units which lost their banner during battle would often be disbanded and all records of the unit erased.

This goes all the way back to Roman times and their eagles. Soldiers owed their allegiance more to the unit than the nation.

RNB65
April 13, 2008, 01:45 AM
He apparently didn't think too much of the medal , merited 2 paragraphs in his book.

No surprise. Pappy wasn't exactly a traditionalist.
-

wideym
April 13, 2008, 02:17 AM
The lack of MOH recipents in the GWOT is not as disturbing to me as much as the amount of Bronze Stars which are casually handed out as administrative awards.

As a young man, when I saw a Bronze Star on a uniform it was always for valor under fire. Nowadays officers and senior NCOs are awarded it for having their paperwork done on time and not getting the clap.

Kind of Blued
April 13, 2008, 02:18 AM
Haha. Wow.

A blatantly non-gun-related thread.

Started by a moderator.

;)

The Wiry Irishman
April 13, 2008, 03:12 AM
I'll have to remember to take a picture of the Medal of Honor (or Medal of Honor replica) that's on display in the Purdue armory. A Purdue alum got it posthumously in WWII. What he did to get it was amazing.

Trebor
April 13, 2008, 05:07 AM
I read in a book about the MoH once that the Civil War awardings of the MoH were fundamentally different then how the medal was later viewed.

From what I recall, there wasn't the whole system of DSC, Silver Star, Bronze Star, etc, back then and, because there weren't these other awards, the MoH was given as an award for bravery for things that today we'd equate with a Bronze or Silver Star or DSC.

(Not in all cases, btw, as there were obviously some Civil War awards that still would have been MoH level in WWII, etc.)

Kaeto
April 13, 2008, 05:53 AM
The first Medals of Honor were given out during the Civil War to a group of raiders who went way behind Confederate lines (In disguise) into Ga. and stole a train.

When they boarded the train to swipe it, it was sitting right next to a Confederate Military encampment.

The Engine of this train can still be seen in Ga.

I'd say they sure earned their MoH's

snowtigger
April 13, 2008, 06:28 AM
I've met Drew Dix, he was a friend of my Dad's. To me, he was just an ordinary guy. Your typical Viet Nam vet. He flew airplanes and belonged to the local Amercan Leigon and VFW.
It was only several years after my Dad died that I found out he was a true hero. There was an article in the local paper about him being honored by a statue of him in Pueblo, Colorado.
Here is the citation...http://www.sfalx.com/moh/dix_drew_SF.htm

Vermont
April 13, 2008, 08:45 AM
There is a video (actually 7 videos) on youtube that talks (in part) about a similar phenomenon with the Victoria Cross.

Here's part 1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LufdzZIPPHQ (http://youtube.com/watch?v=LufdzZIPPHQ)

I may have actually found this video here originally when someone else linked to it, but I can't remember.

qwert65
April 13, 2008, 08:52 AM
You have to note that for a long time the MoH was the only decoration we had, also in the begining officers were ineligible.
During the Civil War sometimes units were given for reenlisting or participating in parades as well as for valor. During WW1 the only decorations were a certificate(equated to a silver star) and the MOH then we got medal happy. The MOH was for combat only after the soilder/navy medal was established for heroism not in combat. in the1930s
The bronze star has always been given for non-combat as well as combat thats what the V device on the medal is for to denote those who earned it in combat.

Personally I think it's good that they tightned the requirments. Though in my opinion except for that award they've loosened them considerably Look at bush giving whole divisons the presidential citation. also I always thought the POW medal was kinda weird decorating someone who surrendered

45Badger
April 13, 2008, 09:14 AM
Tightening of standards may reflect improved insight, better communications, better information. At home, we can see almost anything that happens in Iraq within minutes via internet. During Vietnam, we got footage on the evening news. During WW2, we got news reels/movies. I suspect that the quantity and quality of information available to the military and review boards is also greatly improved.

There are also far fewer casualties in these modern conflicts. With no large scale conflicts (Battle of the Bulge, Tet offensive) that typically screw up information and communication, it is probably a bit easier to determine what happened, and record it in after-action reporting.

doc2rn
April 13, 2008, 09:24 AM
The Congressional Medal of Honor is the highest award that even the Brass must salute. That is why so few are handed out, and why it means so much to get one. After you get one you are like a Chief Warrant Officer on steroids.

rero360
April 13, 2008, 10:19 AM
wideym: I hear you man, we had senior NCOs who sole purpose was to monitor the radio in the company HQ, others who did even less and get the Bronze star, yet many of us who actually went out on missions couldn't get our CABs, it seemed if you were going to get your CAB you also were going to get your purple heart. and a good number of those who got their bronzes had refused to leave the wire, who were initially squad leaders but were to scared to leave the wire, who froze on their first missions, who pissed their pants on patrol. But I'm glad to say that none of them were from my home unit, all but two from a small little island south of florida.

I got shot at on numerous occasions, my buddy has shrapnel in his helmet, no CAB. When our barracks got hit with a 81mm mortar round, the only people who got put in for it were the ones who took shrapnel, most of them had already recieved the awards from previous injuries. With what we went thru, everyone in the company should have had their CABs, 570 rounds of indirect over the course of a year, if you were to go by the regulations.

Larry Ashcraft
April 13, 2008, 10:36 AM
There's a ton of information here: http://www.homeofheroes.com/

Doug Sterner has spent years compiling information on MoH recipients.

yokel
April 13, 2008, 10:46 AM
The Congressional Medal of Honor is the highest award that even the Brass must salute

Methinks that the salute thing is based solely on tradition rather than a stringently enforced rule or regulation.

Treo
April 13, 2008, 11:11 AM
QUOTE: " Look at bush giving whole divisons the presidential citation"

The award you are reffering to is called the Presidential UNIT Citation, it is not, nor has it ever been, given to an individual ( hence the word UNIT in the title) it is used to commend a significant accomplishment by a UNIT. once awarded to a unit anyone assigned to that unit may wear the ribbon as long as they are assigned to that unit.

QUOTE: "I always thought the POW medal was kinda weird decorating someone who surrendered"

Maybe you should go back & read what some of these folks went thru before they surrendered.

Hardware
April 13, 2008, 11:17 AM
Storming parties were referred to as a "forlorn hope". Tradition has it that any member of a storming party that survived was automatically bumped a grade of rank. If a member of a storming party succeeded in entering a breach and captured a flag this would indeed be worthy of a Medal of Honor.

Avenger29
April 13, 2008, 11:27 AM
Maybe you should go back & read what some of these folks went thru before they surrendered.

Or what they went through after they surrendered. You don't have much choice in surrendering if you eject and land on top of a SAM battery or in a concentration of troops that you just bombed. Hell, you are lucky to live through being captured, as the enemy and civilians are going to want to kill you.

qwert65
April 13, 2008, 11:35 AM
treo- I know that the presidential citation is for units I also know that if you're in the unit at the time it was earned you can continue to wear it even after you've left that unit. If you look it up Bush gave the citation to EVERY unit that participated in the invasion of Iraq. I have no quarrel with battalions or what not getting it but entire divisons and expientonary units? especially if you look at past conflicts the invasion itself went very well(occupation not so much)

As for the POW decoration You do realize people have been decorated for what they've done, lots of men have been decorated for actions when they were captured. They were NOT decorated for being captured by itself. I understand that it is meant to show that what they sacrificed(like the purple heart) but to me surrendering is not a sacrifice.
Let me clarify by saying that I'm not disparaging soilders who surrender not in the slightest. I'm just saying they shouldn't be decorated for it

also in 2006 he awarded it to the ENTIRE coast guard!(katrina)

FPrice
April 13, 2008, 11:50 AM
also I always thought the POW medal was kinda weird decorating someone who surrendered

Looks like you know squat about POWs. Most of the people I have known who wear a POW medal were airmen (officers and enlisted) who were shot down. Try being shot down over enemy territory, most likely injured, and surrounded by pretty pissed-off enemy civilians and military and then tell me how wierd you think this is.

Better yet, tell some of those people to their face that you think they surrendered. Just bring some extra teeth along with you.

qwert65
April 13, 2008, 12:11 PM
FPrice, why do you think they should be decorated? This thread started by the question of why the MOH got more selective. IMO this is related because I think across our society we are giving awards for stuff which dosent merit it.

Bear with me a second ok you're an airman pilot just doing your job you go down and get captured. Is this any different from an infrantryman who's position is overrun? Both of them have done the intelligent thing and surrendered. Most other decorations are for men who didn't do the intelligent thing ie staying and trying to hold their position even if they fails this is and should be honored? how do you put them on the same level? or if not on the same level, what did they do that was outstanding/exemplary in relation to the others?

My point is in awarding decorations for lesser acts, esp. those beyond the indivuals control lessens the meaning of the award(like when they gave 893 MOHs in the Civil War to those that reenlisted)
Anything a POW does that is outstanding while they are in captivity they can and have been decorated for. adding a blanket medal that just about anyone who sees combat can get dosen't honor anyone as those same pilots would get the exact same decoration as me If I was in a combat zone and surrendered.

In summary, decorate the accomplishment, not the circumstances

FPrice
April 13, 2008, 01:25 PM
FPrice, why do you think they should be decorated?

It's a simple recognition of what these men had to endure. I'm not sure why you have aproblem with that. How many POWs have you known? I have served with a few.

Ala Dan
April 13, 2008, 01:27 PM
I agree with my friend FPrice on the POW medal. Anyone thinking
that a US airman is less deserving of this medal, than say the solider
who's position is over run- is IMHO just dead wrong. One that comes
to mine during the Viet-Nam War, is my friend U.S. Navy Captain
James G. Pirie who was shot down over North Viet-Nam in 1967; on
his 225th mission to carry out bombing raids on Haiphong and
Hanoi. My friend, that tells me that he flew a total of 224 success-
ful missions in all kind's of weather, before being shot down.
Not to mention, that Captain Pirie also was the recipient of the
Silver Star Award as well. Five and one-half years of his life were
spent in the infamous "HANOI HILTON" as a POW. He was housed
at times in the same cell as our '08 Presidential candidate; the
Honorable John McCain- the distinguished senator from Arizona.

If he were still with us (unfortunately he passed away on 10 May 1998)
today, I would like for you too have told him he was undeserving of
his medal. And, like my other friend Frosty told you- "you had better
bring an extra set of teeth"~! :scrutiny: :)

*FootNote: for a complete viewing of Captain Pirie's obituary, may I
refer you to the following website: www.FindAGrave.com and
click on "search for a cemetery" [Cedar Hill Cemetery] in Bessemer, AL.
Then, follow the listing of names until you get to Captain Pirie.

FPrice
April 13, 2008, 01:28 PM
Prisoner of War Medal

This medal (pictured below) was authorized by Congress and signed into law by President Reagan in 1986. The medal may be awarded to any person who was a prisoner of war after April 5, 1917, (the date of the United States entry into World War One). It is awarded to any person who was taken prisoner or held captive while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States; while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing armed force; or while serving with friendly forces engaged in armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party. The person's conduct, while in captivity, must have been honorable. This medal may be awarded posthumously to the surviving next of kin of the recipient.

The medal was designed by Jay C. Morris of the Institute of Heraldry. On the obverse of the medal is an American eagle, wings folded, and completely enclosed (imprisoned) by a ring and following the outline of the medal. The reverse of the medal has the inscription, Awarded To (with a blank area for the recipient's name) For Honorable Service While a Prisoner of War in three centered lines. Below this is a shield of the United States, and below, following the curvature of the medal, are the words, United States of America.

The ribbon has a very wide center stripe of black, flanked on either side by a narrow white stripe, then a thin blue stripe, then another thin white stripe, and then a thin red stripe at the edge of the medal.

Authorized Device: Service Star

http://ask.afpc.randolph.af.mil/awards/images/medals/POWM.jpg

FPrice
April 13, 2008, 01:31 PM
My condolences on the loss of your friend, U.S. Navy Captain
James G. Pirie. Men like him should be honored and thanked for what they did.

mljdeckard
April 13, 2008, 01:48 PM
I don't think that the process has become stricter since say, WWII, I just think we don't fight wars the way we used to. We use vast advantages in technology and economics to do everything we possibly can to prevent a single soldier from being in the position where he needs to repeatedly risk his own life to save the lives of many of his comrades, under fire, wounded, and likely losing his life in the process. Look at it this way. The only units that won't call in an airstrike to do the heavy work, or medevac to get the wounded under fire, are elite covert units for whom there is no backup. By and large, we just don't do a lot of 'fixed bayonets' dirty fighting anymore.

qwert65
April 13, 2008, 01:58 PM
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree Ala Dan reread what I wrote please I did not say that soilders were more deserving I clearly stated there was no difference between the two. I was trying to point out that almost everybody gets a medal wounded, killed, above and beyond, and captured. and that handing out medals for everything defeats the purpose of a medal in the first place.

I have known two exPOWs, one was my grandfather, the other my great-grandfather. My father was in Vietnam, my cousin is in Iraq. I wasn't trying to disparage those that serve I was just expressing my opinion that this paticular medal was supurfulus.

I mean do you think Jessica Lynch and John McCain and my grandfather should all get the exact same medal even though they suffered varying degrees?

I'll just leave with this if I capture you and abuse you and then let you go. did you do anything outstanding? Should we reward those who got malaria(a lifelong illness) with a medal? Anyway I was merly stating my opinion I am sorry you disagree.

wideym
April 13, 2008, 02:10 PM
My grandfather was a POW in Germany. He was a waist gunner on a B-17 who had atleast one Messerschimit kill to his name and many other probables, was shot down over Italy and wounded in the arms and chest by flak. He spent 13 months in various camps until a British unit liberated his camp.

Like most former POWs and servicemen, he never compalined or sought special recongintion, he only wanted to start a family and get on with his life, but saying POWs are not entitled to a special decoration "for just surrendering" is like calling the Purple Heart an "Enemey Marksmanship Badge".

Leanwolf
April 13, 2008, 02:40 PM
Quote:
Maybe you should go back & read what some of these folks went thru before they surrendered.

Surrendered???

Here is a link to a man for whom I worked during the summer after my junior year in high school, and the summer after my high school graduation.

http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_directory/us_navy_pages/frigates/pages/antrim_ffg_20_richard_antrim.htm

He was one of the nicest, most gracious men I've met... and he was a warrior!

L.W.

Ala Dan
April 13, 2008, 02:53 PM
Many thanks Frosty My Friend-

Yes, U.S. Navy Captain (Jim) Pirie use to sit in front of me in church
for many years. I had no idea that he would turn out too be a distinguished
Navy pilot. Upon his release in 1973, he spoke of his 5-1/2 year ordeal in the
prisons of Southeast Asia; and the inhumane conditions in which he lived. At
the time of the incident (22 June 67), he was flying a U.S. Navy A4E off the
carrier Kitty Hawk. As I said, he died suddenly of a massive heart attack on 10
May 98 in New Orleans, LA.

FPrice
April 13, 2008, 03:15 PM
Here is a link to a man for whom I worked during the summer after my junior year in high school, and the summer after my high school graduation.

http://www.maritimequest.com/warship...ard_antrim.htm

He was one of the nicest, most gracious men I've met... and he was a warrior!

LW,

Thank you for that link. No matter how much I think I know, learning about men like Rear Admiral Antrim shows me that our ability to demonstrate bravery in the face of such cruelty still exists and provides real profiles in courage for the rest of us.

Ala Dan
April 13, 2008, 06:09 PM
Ladies & Gentleman-

The Combat Medic Badge is another U.S. Military Award that is not easily
obtained by a field medic, rendering aid to U.S. service personel while
engaged in combat operations and under enemy fire. This award has to
be documented on sight, (with date and time being paramount) by a
2nd LT. or above, I believe~? Very few were awarded during the Viet-
Nam War.

42
April 13, 2008, 06:50 PM
All those decorated fpr valor are hero's in my opinion as are many mver decorated. In the UK we have less medals than the US I think pease corrct if i am wrong.

the Victoria Cross is insanely difficult to get. The peacetime equivilent is the George cross and I belive that the POW medal along with purple heart shoud exist in the UK.

we have some star medalsb equivalents including Military Crss Distingushed Military cross FC and DFC and citation in dispatches which IIRC allows an oak leaf badge.

The Uk does offer some cool things for the troops though capaign badges on dress uniform for those who served, specialist badges and many carry badges they have traded for e.g a para carried the crossed kurris of the Gurkha. and campaign medals.

Leanwolf
April 13, 2008, 07:26 PM
F PRICE - " LW, Thank you for that link. No matter how much I think I know, learning about men like Rear Admiral Antrim shows me that our ability to demonstrate bravery in the face of such cruelty still exists and provides real profiles in courage for the rest of us."

F Price, I thought you -- and others here --, might find that link interesting. What I forgot to put in my post was that Admiral Antrim was also awarded the Navy Cross, for his actions in combat previous to his capture and interrment in the Japanese concentration camp.

FWIW.

L.W.

rero360
April 13, 2008, 07:51 PM
Alan Dan: I've met two individuals in the last 7 1/2 years of my military service that had the CMB, I know that one of our medics should have been awarded it, but again with the stringent regulations, she didn't get it, the deed worthy of the award happens but the right person isn't there to see it happen.

Ala Dan
April 14, 2008, 12:06 AM
Att: rero360-

I'm sorry that person didn't get the CMB that she deserved; as is the
case so many times. There is just no telling how many brave souls
have gone into harms way, performed heroic acts and later were
not reconized~! Of course, there are those that did this kind'a
service; but don't want the reconigtion. To all those that did
perform unselfish service to render aid, moral support, resupply
ammo, rescue downed airman, or whatever else that duty called
for I am extremely grateful.

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