What if US was like Pakistan in terms of gun market?


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dmxx9900
April 13, 2008, 05:58 PM
Why cant the US have a legal gun market similar to this one since "we are the land of the free and the home of the brave"?
Get handguns for $50 and cheaper ammo
Be able to get real automatic AK's for under $1000
Be able to get a Rocket Launcher for under $1000
Be able to get any other gun I have not mentioned for a low price and not have to have a waiting period and no registration of any kind or the NFA BS.
Be able to shoot like in the vid and be able to open carry or conceal carry whatever you want anywhere.

I guarantee you that crime would be so low that we will be the safest country on earth because not very many criminals will mess with anyone anymore if almost every citizen has a AK slung over their shoulder or a SAW in their car.
This country would be truely free and I would be more comfortable to live like that instead of the way we live now where you have to be afraid of owning a certain semi-auto or having a shorter barrel for those really oppressive states.
And not being allowed to carry concealed or open carry for those leftist states that have all these restrictions and prohibitions.Tell me what you think of that idea?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGlHgeqWLFc

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BMW2
April 13, 2008, 06:19 PM
So your saying there is no crime in Pakistan?

dmxx9900
April 13, 2008, 06:24 PM
I am saying that if we has a similar market we would have less crime then we do now but it would not be completely eradicated.Pakistan has crime and so does every other country.You cant completely get rid of crime but you can lower it to almost rare or uncommon.

Bigjake
April 13, 2008, 06:32 PM
Because readily available, cheap RPGs and AKs would just create more havoc than peace. Have you seen what a relative minority of critters have managed in Bagdad with said weapons?

I'd love to the price come down on NFA stuff as much as the next guy, but if you could get an AK with "da switch" at any fleamarket, the Brady bunch might actually be right for once when these idiot gangs start hosing down neighborhoods at random.

Larry E
April 13, 2008, 06:33 PM
I personally don't see much need for an RPG launcher and RPG's for civilian use, but the bad guys apparently have very little trouble getting full auto guns right now although they're supposedly illegal without a license. Of course convincing the anti-gun politicians that anyone needs any gun is like talking to the wall, so there's not much chance of the NFA being changed anytime soon.

That being said I sort of doubt that crime would increase if full auto guns were legalized. People who aren't going to commit crimes aren't going to commit crimes because they have full auto guns anymore than they are with the currently legal for general consumption guns.

dmxx9900
April 13, 2008, 06:36 PM
Bigjake Because readily available, cheap RPGs and AKs would just create more havoc than peace. Have you seen what a relative minority of critters have managed in Bagdad with said weapons?

I'd love to the price come down on NFA stuff as much as the next guy, but if you could get an AK with "da switch" at any fleamarket, the Brady bunch might actually be right for once when these idiot gangs start hosing down neighborhoods at random.
Gangs already are doing stuff like that but the difference would be people can actually shoot back and teach them a lesson for those that live.

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 06:39 PM
Because readily available, cheap RPGs and AKs would just create more havoc than peace. Have you seen what a relative minority of critters have managed in Bagdad with said weapons?

Um, we shouldn't have went there in the first place. There was no terrorists there to begin with, and the people there don't exactly like foreigners, maybe except tourists.

Why did the Boxer Revolution began in China?

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 06:42 PM
I'd love to the price come down on NFA stuff as much as the next guy, but if you could get an AK with "da switch" at any fleamarket, the Brady bunch might actually be right for once when these idiot gangs start hosing down neighborhoods at random.

In an ideal United States of America, all gangs would be rounded up, taken to the desert, and shot, or sent to work in the coal and shale mines, where they will be fed nothing but bread and water, and kept there until they are killed in inevitable industrial accidents. That way, thousands of hardworking miners do not have to sacrifice their lives and health in the mines. Instead, they could work on the railways, where it is a alot safer, with more opportunities for advancement.

mgregg85
April 13, 2008, 06:44 PM
It is my personal belief that the second amendment should protect the right to own the basic weapons of an individual infantry man(in the least, not at the most).

From that point of view, your average law abiding american should be able to own an M16A3(or whatever the standard is now) or its equivalent. Whether or not citizens should be able to own LAWS rockets or RPGs is questionable but being that they aren't a crew served weapon, I feel that they would pass my standard.

Would it be dangerous if criminals got their hands on these weapons? Yes of course

Is that an acceptable risk to live in a free society? Yes, I believe so, freedom isn't free and part of living in a free society is accepting the inherent risks involved.

mgregg85
April 13, 2008, 06:46 PM
In an ideal United States of America, all gangs would be rounded up, taken to the desert, and shot, or sent to work in the coal and shale mines, where they will be fed nothing but bread and water, and kept there until they are killed in inevitable industrial accidents. That way, thousands of hardworking miners do not have to sacrifice their lives and health in the mines. Instead, they could work on the railways.


Whew, you were born a little late and in the wrong place. Stalin could have used you.

We have due process for a reason and cruel/unusual punishment isn't allowed for a reason.

ChrisMG
April 13, 2008, 06:57 PM
I wouldn't mind having access to those types of firearms, at least what the police departments have access to (I have no interest in an Abrams tank, but to each his own) which I think should be our right anyway.

Another reason I think (very far fetched but relevant regardless) is that we should be able to stand up against the government in case of oppression. Harder to do that when they have access to all the latest equipment and we get the gimped versions for high prices.

againstthagrane
April 13, 2008, 07:03 PM
i don't have anything against certain people being able to own the weapons listed by the OP, but i don't think any yahoo should be able to walk into walmart and buy a SAW or an AK without a background check.

CBS220
April 13, 2008, 07:06 PM
In an ideal United States of America, all gangs would be rounded up, taken to the desert, and shot, or sent to work in the coal and shale mines, where they will be fed nothing but bread and water, and kept there until they are killed in inevitable industrial accidents. That way, thousands of hardworking miners do not have to sacrifice their lives and health in the mines. Instead, they could work on the railways, where it is a alot safer, with more opportunities for advancement.

http://theithacan.org/blogs/brink/files/2007/12/130-126big-brother-is-watching-you-posters.jpg

Zoogster
April 13, 2008, 07:08 PM
Those gun markets are illegal in Pakistan. The federal government just does not enforce it because they are tribal controlled areas (think militias) and they would not put up with the federal government coming in. They would resist as a united force. Which is exactly what they have been doing since the Pakistan government has had pressure to attack the same areas because they harbor "Al Qaeda" or Taliban. They are a region based on honor and loyalty, so follow the honorable custom more than the politicly correct one.

It also makes them more free thinking in some things.
Al Qaeda does not really exist as the media describes. In the Western Media Al Qaeda is used to reference people all over the world like they are connected or even share the same beliefs.
In reality what is known as Al Qaeda was a few people that set up militant training camps and had some power and influance. Many people not affiliated with Al-Qaeda then trained at those camps. All of those people are however considered and called "Al-Qaeda" in the media and by some governments. Anyone who associates with anyone who ever attended one of those camps also has "links to" or is "associated with "Al-Qaeda" since they know someone considered "Al-Qaeda".
That of course is absurd yet passes public scrutiny. It would be like calling any individual that took a training course at a Blackwater USA facility a member of Blackwater.
So by the same standard applied to consider people Al-Qaeda, numerous citizens including police officers and military who are not associated with or involved in the politics of black water are in fact "Blackwater" because they took a course at one of thier facilities or sponsored by Blackwater at some point in thier lives.
That also means all those police departments that have an officer who attended such a course have "links to Blackwater" or "members of blackwater" in them.
I bet that is a surprise to them. :neener:


My point is the Pakistan tribal areas see all that garbage and realize foriegn nations wielding great influance and power over even thier own government are so out of touch with reality, (or in fact in touch with reality and just choosing to exploit facts for various purposes) that they do as they wish. The "federal" law so to speak does not extend to thier area because they decide it doesn't.
Those markets are however illegal under Pakastan's laws.

The areas with those markets went to war with the government not that long ago, and the government called a cease fire. The American government is actualy conducting operations in those areas now too.

So these Pashtun people you are highlighting are in fact enemies of the American military right now, and due to foriegn pressure are now enemies with thier own government as well. Thier system of honor and integrity is conflicting with the politics of the world and is bringing a lot of headache down on them.
So enjoy the video, many are trying to purge that lifestyle and culture from existence at this time, and it may not be around much longer.

There is a picture of thousands of guns lined up on a street and a steam roller driving over them. That if I recall is in Pakistan being done by the "federal" government of the people in this video.
I will look for it and add it if I find it.

Tommygunn
April 13, 2008, 07:09 PM
I'd love to the price come down on NFA stuff as much as the next guy, but if you could get an AK with "da switch" at any fleamarket, the Brady bunch might actually be right for once when these idiot gangs start hosing down neighborhoods at random.

Those gangs are "hosing down" whatever they desire to as it is. It isn't too hard to convert semis to full auto. Even semis will fire quite fast too.
If you want gangs to stop shooting people, stick them in a prison. There will still be gangs there, too, but there seems to be fewer guns, if not shivs.

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 07:43 PM
If you want gangs to stop shooting people, stick them in a prison. There will still be gangs there, too, but there seems to be fewer guns, if not shivs.

However, in the Mojave Desert and the Rocky Mountains, there are trillions of tons of oil shale buried under thousands of feet of bedrock. There are methods of extracting the petrol out of the shale and using it to produce petroleum fuels of all different grades and scales. The method is expensive though. However, we can save hard earned capital on that by having a completely replenishable and inexpensive source of labor to mine out the shale.

Start with the murderous street gangs. Like Tookie William's thugs.

We only need limited guards to watch them, because it is impossible to escape the mines. The mines are located in the summits of inhospitable mountains. And if they try to escape by jumping onto the trains used to ship out the shale, they would be instantly obliterated by soldiers stationed on the locomotive and fuel cars.

Petroleum is not just liquid, guys. It also comes in solid form. And we also have a force of unpaid laborers ready to make the sacrifice for our nation, produce the much needed fuel for our economy and right their former wrongs.

Gangs are like a poisonous organic compound. Our economy and heavy industry is like a massive furnace.

Instead of discarding a poisonous organic compound, why not burn that compound in the furnace to produce more heat that could power the machinery and in turn produce more goods and capital. It is efficient. It is cheap and easily replenishable. It is worthwhile, and it will produce endless prosperity for our nation.

Zoogster
April 13, 2008, 08:00 PM
However, in the Mojave Desert and the Rocky Mountains, there are trillions of tons of oil shale buried under thousands of feet of bedrock. There are methods of extracting the petrol out of the shale and using it to produce petroleum fuels of all different grades and scales. The method is expensive though. However, we can save hard earned capital on that by having a completely replenishable and inexpensive source of labor to mine out the shale.

I would not support making criminal labor profitable even if it seems like a good idea on the surface. If government and contractors benefit from a larger work force and more people in prison, then more people will be put in prison.
Imprisoning people should not be a profitable business. It should cost society, and make society reserve it for very bad people because it is expensive.
Otherwise many people will be locked up, and for longer periods of time. New crimes will be created when the supply of prisoners does not meet growing demand and the labor force needed for production.
It gives incentive to essentialy have as many prisoners as possible because they become a slave labor force.

Car Knocker
April 13, 2008, 08:01 PM
I'd rather send the gang members to NY state.

41magsnub
April 13, 2008, 08:05 PM
However, in the Mojave Desert and the Rocky Mountains, there are trillions of tons of oil shale buried under thousands of feet of bedrock. There are methods of extracting the petrol out of the shale and using it to produce petroleum fuels of all different grades and scales. The method is expensive though. However, we can save hard earned capital on that by having a completely replenishable and inexpensive source of labor to mine out the shale.

Start with the murderous street gangs. Like Tookie William's thugs.

We only need limited guards to watch them, because it is impossible to escape the mines. The mines are located in the summits of inhospitable mountains. And if they try to escape by jumping onto the trains used to ship out the shale, they would be instantly obliterated by soldiers stationed on the locomotive and fuel cars.

Petroleum is not just liquid, guys. It also comes in solid form. And we also have a force of unpaid laborers ready to make the sacrifice for our nation, produce the much needed fuel for our economy and right their former wrongs.

Gangs are like a poisonous organic compound. Our economy and heavy industry is like a massive furnace.

Instead of discarding a poisonous organic compound, why not burn that compound in the furnace to produce more heat that could power the machinery and in turn produce more goods and capital. It is efficient. It is cheap and easily replenishable. It is worthwhile, and it will produce endless prosperity for our nation.

Wow.. seriously? You think this is a good idea? It's like either the pretense of a bad Sci Fi movie or the economic plan for China.

abrink
April 13, 2008, 08:09 PM
Well i'm not sure i like that idea. Not every citizen should be armed. Only the ones that are responsible enough to be able to be armed. I like Virginia's gun laws. If we all had Vermont concealed carry laws and Virginia's buying policy we would be fine.

Zoogster
April 13, 2008, 08:09 PM
or the economic plan for China.

No the economic plan of China would also include selling thier organs when they die from exhaustion. Just like they currently do with executed prisoners. The number of executions also goes up when the demand for organs goes up 'coincidentaly'.

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 08:11 PM
I would not support making criminal labor profitable even if it seems like a good idea on the surface. If government and contractors benefit from a larger work force and more people in prison, then more people will be put in prison.
Imprisoning people should not be a profitable business. It should cost society, and make society reserve it for very bad people because it is expensive.
Otherwise many people will be locked up, and for longer periods of time. New crimes will be created when the supply of prisoners does not meet growing demand and the labor force needed for production.
It gives incentive to essentialy have as many prisoners as possible because they become a slave labor force.

I agree with you on that. However, if I am a leader of this nation, I would be aware of the roots of criminality and have it purged immediately and relentlessly.
The media would have to be cleansed. Subversive music and music videos and movies would be strictly forbidden. And children, from a young age, would be taught the value of hard work, national strength, national pride, and patriotic sentiment.
Subversive culture such as "gangsta-ism" and "pimp-ism" would be exterminated. Even mention of such will bring harsh penalties. Those who proliferate subversive and harmful culture will receive the ultimate penalty. Such culture cannot be tolerated in a truly free society and must be STAMPED OUT!
An armed populace is a MUST in order to prevent the spread of criminality and moral decadence.
Instead, culture would be encouraged to flourish in the arts dedicating to the nation's history, revolutionary and patriotic idealologies of our Founding Fathers.
Our Great Leader Washington must be honored each year at Independance Day with a mass festival involving hundreds of thousands of dancers, singers, and acrobats to show the world our pride and the beauty of our arts and instill revolutionary pride in all people.
The most beautiful sights of a nation's prosperity is the towers of heavy industry and railways with thundering freight trains.

Our children and future generations will beam with pride, their beautiful smiles illuminated by the warm light of the Sun.

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 08:15 PM
Wow.. seriously? You think this is a good idea? It's like either the pretense of a bad Sci Fi movie or the economic plan for China.

Raw petroleum can be easily mined from shale. In fact, oil is only in the rock as a suspension. A volatile solvent such as acetone or ether applied to powderized shale will be able to isolate the raw petroleum and the mined rock can later be discarded. However, extra work would have to be done during fractional distillation to separate the solvents from the petroleum product.

However, I think we would make far more profit than suffer financial losses if we have a nationalized economy and culture.

Limeyfellow
April 13, 2008, 08:16 PM
Imprisoning people should not be a profitable business. It should cost society, and make society reserve it for very bad people because it is expensive.

Pretty much this. Prison has become a business and reputation maker, for people wanting votes and creating jobs and a look of competence. It was understood that this was happening in the 19th century and it will continue to carry on this way.

Heavy crackdowns on the gangs and sending them off to gulags creates more gangmembers and cause them to be more fanatical. Next you end up with siturations like in Mexico and Brazil when they start fighting with the police with .50 calibre machineguns and rocket launchers. We be much better off with creating real opportunities, a chance to get out of poverty and interaction with more stable centres of society, since deep down people tend to need interaction and socialisation to be well adjusted. Since they can only get it from fellow gangmembers, people tend to join the gangs.

Unfortantly that would result in way too many people out of work and easy campaigning issues to go away.

Zoogster
April 13, 2008, 08:17 PM
if I am a leader of this nation, I would be aware of the roots of criminality and have it purged immediately and relentlessly.
The media would have to be cleansed. Subversive music and music videos and movies would be strictly forbidden. And children, from a young age, would be taught the value of hard work, national strength, national pride, and patriotic sentiment.
Subversive culture such as "gangsta-ism" and "pimp-ism" would be exterminated. Even mention of such will bring harsh penalties. Those who proliferate subversive and harmful culture will receive the ultimate penalty. Such culture cannot be tolerated in a truly free society and must be STAMPED OUT!

You would destroy what makes the United States the United States in order to preserve the United States? Interesting logic. Throw out the Constitution and all its values because it allows subcultures we disagree with.

Hindsight is 20/20, so we are taught how evil various fascist movements were in history. However at the time they were not seen in the light we paint them now, and were exactly as you describe, and usualy widely supported by the population.
The end result though is never freedom or liberty for the citizens.

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 08:18 PM
I'd rather send the gang members to NY state.

It would be useless. The land underneath NY State is barren. There is no evidence of large hydrocarbon reserves, not even anthracite.

Sans Authoritas
April 13, 2008, 08:19 PM
Quote:
I'd rather send the gang members to NY state.

Rachen wrote: It would be useless. The land underneath NY State is barren. There is no evidence of large hydrocarbon reserves, not even anthracite.


I don't think he intended to have them mine anything. : )

-Sans Authoritas

Wes Janson
April 13, 2008, 08:19 PM
Please tell me that's all sarcasm..because if it's not, the unbelievable irony must be totally lost on you.

Learn some Russian, and you'd have had a great job in the USSR a few decades back.

Afy
April 13, 2008, 08:21 PM
Do you want the situation in pakistan replicated in the US?
I would lov to own automatics... but not at the cost of freedom.

m38shooter
April 13, 2008, 08:23 PM
Gangs are like a poisonous organic compound.

So are facists

highorder
April 13, 2008, 08:30 PM
Rachen, the country you describe is NOT The United States of America, it is Stalin's Russia.

Your passion is misguided. Freedom allows for many cultures, opinions and everything that comes with that.

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 08:34 PM
Rachen, the country you describe is NOT The United States of America, it is Stalin's Russia.

I, and a great many people dislike the popular culture of today, and how it breeds violence and sexually provocative world.

I believe I have the cure for that. In a truly free society, people don't have to worry about crime and violence and being subjected to subversive music and pop culture.

highorder
April 13, 2008, 08:40 PM
Your don't believe in freedom.

Your version removes that freedom, and the responsibility that comes with it. "Pop" culture is short for popular culture. You are in the minority if you disagree with what is popular. What is wrong with the freedom to be violent and sexually provocative?

No thanks.

CBS220
April 13, 2008, 08:43 PM
I, and a great many people dislike the popular culture of today, and how it breeds violence and sexually provocative world.

I believe I have the cure for that. In a truly free society, people don't have to worry about crime and violence and being subjected to subversive music and pop culture.

So, to become free, we make it so that people are not allowed to watch TV, we revoke freedom of press, we ban crappy rap music, and then we move into Lenin's radiant future?

You have a seriously twisted idea of freedom. I seriously hope you're kidding, but considering that you post this spiel every night I don't think you are.

Snake Eyes
April 13, 2008, 08:44 PM
Guys, you might want to do a little back reading of Rachen's posts.

Rachen is Chinese and appears to favor the form of government currently in power there. His MySpace page features-prominently-an image of (I believe) Mao.

If my tinfoil hat wasn't so tight, I'd tell you he was here to help promote what a wonderful and reasonable place China is (right before the Olympic Games).

But whomever Rachen is, I think the applicable term is: Troll.

Don't feed the Trolls!

MIL-DOT
April 13, 2008, 08:45 PM
Quote:
"Rachen, the country you describe is NOT The United States of America, it is Stalin's Russia."

Well, gee whiz, ya saw that,too,didja ? :rolleyes: Me thinks maybe some legs be getting pulled.

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 08:46 PM
I want to share with you a song from a nation whose people are dedicated and working together to eliminate decadence and building a prosperous future.

Tell me if it's beauty made tears well up in your eyes.
It sure made my eyes gimmer with tears.

Please listen carefully.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKvFZekvYmk

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 08:49 PM
But whomever Rachen is, I think the applicable term is: Troll.

Please don't say that. I have always been a tireless promoter of the 2nd Amendment and always will be. I have always been on other forums trying to unite the shooting sports community for the long and hard fight ahead for our rights.

However, I live in NYC and have seen how true American culture have been mocked, degraded, and stomped on by the filthy, mud covered boots of materialism, greed, capitalism, and consumer culture.

CBS220
April 13, 2008, 08:50 PM
Yeah, it's a troll.

Although, he has gone to a lot of trouble to project his image.

highorder
April 13, 2008, 08:57 PM
Rachen is Chinese and appears to favor the form of government currently in power there. His MySpace page features-prominently-an image of (I believe) Mao.

I am aware. However, I don't think of him as a troll. Just a misguided soul in need of some perspective.

Funderb
April 13, 2008, 08:58 PM
Tookie williams wrote childrens books on why gangs are bad.
People can change.
Not all people are all bad or all good. Gang members should not be convicted anywhere, including here on THR, to a life of punishing servitude. Being in a gang is not a crime, while being violent, stealing, selling drugs, and other criminal acts is, and is often the basis of gangs, you cannot send people to labor camps on charges of "risk for criminal behavior"

Rachen, that suggestion is fitting for a country that has no morals.

I hope with all of me that we are not there yet.

dmxx9900
April 13, 2008, 08:58 PM
Rachen I want to share with you a song from a nation whose people are dedicated and working together to eliminate decadence and building a prosperous future.

Tell me if it's beauty made tears well up in your eyes.
It sure made my eyes gimmer with tears.

Please listen carefully.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKvFZekvYmk
Rachen,
What the f$% you completely jacked my thread and turned it into a North Korean propaganda thread with the propaganda music link.

Snake Eyes
April 13, 2008, 09:04 PM
So, Rachen, Tell us all about "the peoples" right to own firearms in the DPRK?

Funderb
April 13, 2008, 09:04 PM
Wait, is rachen just hambun in disguise?

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 09:08 PM
Like I said, I live in NYC and have seen how true American culture have been mocked, degraded, and stomped on by the filthy, mud covered boots of materialism, greed, capitalism, and consumer culture.

I can remove that song if you want me to, but I thought I just wanted to share with you all something that I found so mystical and so beautiful.

lamazza
April 13, 2008, 09:08 PM
An armed society is a polite society

Aaryq
April 13, 2008, 09:10 PM
I guarantee you that crime would be so low that we will be the safest country on earth because not very many criminals will mess with anyone anymore if almost every citizen has a AK slung over their shoulder or a SAW in their car.


I carry a saw in my car quite often when I'm in the States. It's not too effective for long range confrontations and up close, while intimidating, not very effective there either. You should see it. I don't have any pictures of it but it has this really nice synthetic handle and it's got a short blade...wait...you were talking about the Squad Automatic Weapon SAW....duh.

When it comes to Pakistani-like laws (or their lack of enforcement), I'm on the fence. Do I want an RPG? No. Does someone else here on this board want one? Probably. I won't speak out against it though.

I think due to the nature of the US you still would be spending a butt-load on them if they became legalized though. And ammo prices would go through the roof if every Tom, Dick, and Jane began shooting FA.

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 09:13 PM
I think due to the nature of the US you still would be spending a butt-load on them if they became legalized though. And ammo prices would go through the roof if every Tom, Dick, and Jane began shooting FA.

I think some of these funds can be donated by the companies to support our pro gun candidates running for office. It will ensure our freedom in the future and it will be money worth spending.

41magsnub
April 13, 2008, 09:16 PM
I think some of these funds can be donated by the companies to support our pro gun candidates running for office. It will ensure our freedom in the future and it will be money worth spending.

I wish you would stop using the word "our". Freedom does not mean what you think it means and I would hate to think any of us have anything in common with your views.

protolith
April 13, 2008, 09:18 PM
I like the idea of international market pricing on all small arms with full availability in the US market.

I think it would be better for the international community (ahem listen her UN) to have arms brought to the US where they will be easily sold to sportsmen and collectors rather than equipping some fascist banana republic for the genocide du jour.

Sure you might get a few reports of an RPG used in an armored car job, and VT or Columbine style assault would start out with even more drama, but it would be quelled almost instantly by the would be victims.

I can imagine that with widespread access to select fire arms, machine guns, and rocket launchers the next LA riots could result in Mogadishu style warlord battles.

As a free American I am willing to take these chances.

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 09:19 PM
I wish you would stop using the word "our". Freedom does not mean what you think it means and I hate to think most of us have anything in common with your views.

However, isn't THR a place of different viewpoints? There are many different definitions of freedom from different countries and ethnic groups?. I just adhere to one or more of them. However, that doesn't mean I am always right. I am human after all, just like everybody else.
Please be more accepting of your peers. Even if I disagree with someone here, and I have many times, I never cross the line and say hateful things.

dmxx9900
April 13, 2008, 09:20 PM
Rachen Like I said, I live in NYC and have seen how true American culture have been mocked, degraded, and stomped on by the filthy, mud covered boots of materialism, greed, capitalism, and consumer culture.

I can remove that song if you want me to, but I thought I just wanted to share with you all something that I found so mystical and so beautiful.
Rachen,
I agree with you that American culture is completely materialized and greedy and thats its worse now then what is was 10-100 years ago.But there is not much we can do only to live the way we live and deal with it.
Please do not post any more propaganda past this post.

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 09:22 PM
Please do not post any more propaganda past this post.

I promise.

However, if anyone else wants to hear more music, they can contact me privately.

Owen
April 13, 2008, 09:24 PM
(brain bleach, not working)

So yeah, I'd love to go shopping in a Pakistan arms market.

41magsnub
April 13, 2008, 09:24 PM
However, isn't THR a place of different viewpoints? There are many different definitions of freedom from different countries and ethnic groups?. I just adhere to one or more of them. However, that doesn't mean I am always right. I am human after all, just like everybody else.
Please be more accepting of your peers. Even if I disagree with someone here, and I have many times, I never cross the line and say hateful things.

Hateful? What about that is hateful? Hateful is proposing sending convicts to the underground mines, not to mention some of the other whacked out crap you have posted. You are not helping things in the slightest, the best we can do is make sure your crazy views are soundly mocked so they are less effective when some anti shows up here looking for ammo against the thing you claim to be opposed to. I agree with dmxx9900, please stop.

JWarren
April 13, 2008, 09:25 PM
Rachen wrote:

Like I said, I live in NYC and have seen how true American culture have been mocked, degraded, and stomped on by the filthy, mud covered boots of materialism, greed, capitalism, and consumer culture.


And China isn't in an economic growth trend now? Isn't Hong Kong part of China as well?


And someone has to say this.

So you've seen NYC. And you TRULY believe that is representative of all American culture?

I've lived in NYC. Come down to Mississippi and see how far off base you could be.


-- John

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 09:28 PM
Come down to Mississippi and see how far off base you could be.

I'd love to! I'd truly love to.
I want to move to the South soon. I want to bring my family there. My father used to own a restaurant in Arkansas shortly after he moved to the States. He said the thing that he regretted most was moving out of the beautiful South into a northern cesspool drain.

Zoogster
April 13, 2008, 09:28 PM
I want to share with you a song from a nation whose people are dedicated and working together to eliminate decadence and building a prosperous future.
Ah North Korean, wonderful. Funny that you put "death to tyrants" in your sig, you encourage the killing of yourself as leader.


Back on topic:

Do you want the situation in pakistan replicated in the US?
I would lov to own automatics... but not at the cost of freedom.

Actualy the situation in Pakistan is the reason the 2nd exists in America. Those people resisted a tyranical government which due to foriegn influance and demands is attempting to crush them.
They have resisted successfuly as a poor place with little industry against a mighty centralized government with factories and a decent military. Successfuly enough to cause the government to back off and call for a cease fire for a time.
It is a shame one of those foriegn influances is America, for I love America.

Put it into perspective. Imagine the same thing happened here.
Imagine the U.N. and other nations pressured the United States government to crack down on those who believe they have the right to resist tyranny, and support "small arms proliferation" (gun nuts.)
Imagine the United States government gave into such pressure and had sweeping reforms and went after such people. Wouldn't you want the opposition to successfuly achieve enough of a stalemate to cause the government to pause and reconsider?

That would only happen if the government met strong opposition which inflicted high casualties on the agents tasked with implementing such legislation as well as the people creating it, or brought the economy to its knees, lowering the quality of life dramaticly, which would also lower the income from taxes the government was recieving and operating on.

Those people in the video in Pakistan are loyal to a fault to anyone that gains thier respect. If an outsider then demands they betray someone who has treated them with equal respect, even with the threat of death and destruction behind it, they will stand for honor even at no personal gain and facing heavy loss.
To them it is a matter of integrity, not gain or loss.

Because they border Afghanistan, currently that is bringing them into conflict with the American military, and UN forces because Taliban flee into thier region.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Pakistan_ethnic_1973.jpg/632px-

The people labeled pathan on that map are those people.

What they are using those arms for is exactly why the 2nd exists in America. If a foriegn military invades, it is your duty as an American to impede thier success (and you won't accomplish that by facing an advanced military openly, it would be done through an insurgency.)
If foriegn pressures cause your own government to become tyrannical, it is your duty under the constitution to defend America's liberties and freedoms for America's sake, not the U.N.'s. or whatever nation is doing the influencing.

I support America, and will therefore not support a people coming into conflict with our troops. I still have great sympathy and admiration for those people though, because they are attempting to defend many of the very rights the constitution grants us.
Especialy the RKBA for the purpose the 2nd mentions.
They are doing it at great risk and loss, for no personal gain, simply because they believe it is the right thing to do. Even with thier own government betraying them because of foriegn pressure.

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 09:29 PM
effective when some anti shows up here looking for ammo against the thing you claim to be opposed to. I agree with dmxx9900, please stop.

Please clarify. I hope you didn't say I was opposed to guns.

JWarren
April 13, 2008, 09:30 PM
Rachen wrote:

Quote:
Come down to Mississippi and see how far off base you could be.

I'd love to! I'd truly love to.


Great. You will rapidly see that the US is not necessarily defined by one or two major metropolitan markets.


-- John

41magsnub
April 13, 2008, 09:34 PM
Please clarify. I hope you didn't say I was opposed to guns.

Viewpoints such as yours will serve to do nothing but make it possible for the self titled mainstream to marginalize us and actually work against what we all want. If I read you right you want the US to be China with more guns. No thanks.

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 09:34 PM
Great. You will rapidly see that the US is not necessarily defined by one or two major metropolitan markets.

Thanks for letting me know that the majority of the United States hasn't been corrupted, fouled, and made putrid by things that Britney Spears, George Clooney and Justin Timberlake calls "culture".

I hope one day, the forces of patriotism and true conservatism would surge back to New York and end the gloomy oppression by capitalist megalomaniacs and finally allow the Sun to shine out from between the clouds again.

41magsnub
April 13, 2008, 09:35 PM
I hope one day, the forces of patriotism and true conservatism would surge back to New York and end the gloomy oppression by capitalist megalomaniacs and finally allow the Sun to shine out from between the clouds again.

And we can have a new Cultural Revolution or a Great Leap Forward!

Aaryq
April 13, 2008, 09:45 PM
For the Motherland! I vill bring Ivan and Boris over and we will discuss matters of Old Country. Soon we vill rrrrise up and tell the Bourgeoisie they will not stomp on the Proletariat any more! Glory to Lenin! Glory to Stalin! GLORY TO THE WORKING MAN!

Bigjake
April 13, 2008, 09:49 PM
Having not read THR actively in the past few years, I can't believe where the place went...

Timradcliffe345
April 13, 2008, 09:51 PM
Dont feed the trolls. Someone, please ban this parasite from the forum. We can do without fascists on here. At the very least, shut down the thread.
God Bless America.

Zoogster
April 13, 2008, 09:51 PM
Back on topic please, enough have clearly responded to a single posters views other than the OP's.

41magsnub
April 13, 2008, 09:54 PM
Back on topic please, enough have clearly responded to a single posters views other than the OP's.

Point taken, my work is done here.

JWarren
April 13, 2008, 09:59 PM
Rachen,

My point being that "middle America" tends have more traditional values.

I'm not against capitalism-- after all-- a work ethic is one of the founding values of this country. Work should be equitablly rewarded. I include the risks taken with your assets within that criteria.

After all, if you notice my occupation, you'll notice that I am intimately involved with capitalism.


And yet, money does not define my life-- nor is it greater than principles or values. Wealth is a tool only. While it is essential to be financially responsible, it is not a thing to live for.

You may want to qualify some of your statements. Some of your comments are reminiscent of another person who liked firearms who was critical of US materialism about a year ago.

No one is obligated to remain in US society. There are plenty options available out there.


-- John

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 10:05 PM
Sorry I used the word capitalist too carelessly without adhering to the real definition of the word.
My point being that "middle America" tends have more traditional values.

I completely agree.

NYC has gotten me completely repulsed, disgusted, and thoroughly nauseated, so guys, please don't call me a troll or parasite or anything else. You would be upset and disgusted too if you are sitting in your study and trying to work on a novel or painting and rap music being played from that "pimped out" car down in the street keep serenading you, every night, every night, every night.

rainbowbob
April 13, 2008, 10:06 PM
I, and a great many people dislike the popular culture of today, and how it breeds violence and sexually provocative world.

I believe I have the cure for that.

This is pretty chilling stuff.

OK folks...I'm gonna go way out on a limb here...and way off thread (whatever it was?). This may get a lock - but here goes...

Rachen:
I don't think you are kidding. I think you are very serious. I also think you may be experiencing the onset of a manic (bipolar) episode. I urge you to see a doctor and talk about what you are thinking and experiencing right now. Help is available. Treatment works.

I dearly hope you aren't thinking about doing anything to hurt yourself or anyone else. I do not mean this to be condescending or in any way disrespectful to you. We're here for you, bro.

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 10:09 PM
Rachen:
I don't think you are pulling kidding. I think you are very serious. I also think you may be experiencing the onset of a manic (bipolar) episode. I urge you to see a doctor and talk about what you are thinking and experiencing right now. Help is available. Treatment works.

I dearly hope you aren't thinking about doing anything to hurt yourself or anyone else. I do not mean this to be condescending or in any way disrespectful to you. We're here for you, bro.

LOL, but sorry at whatever I said before that offended anybody.
I have read many, many political works from Russia, DPRK, and other places and I was just trying to offer it for discussion here. However, I was just surprised at how many negative reactions I got.

CBS220
April 13, 2008, 10:12 PM
Threats to systematically execute a subculture tend to get those sorts of responses, yes.

JCMAG
April 13, 2008, 10:12 PM
Huzzah! There is a war going on in this thread...

I have long had a great amount of admiration for the Pashtun people, both in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

They live by a code of honor and respect in a society regulated without an external governing body--or they try to, anyway. They have survived for millennia and their culture survives.

Imagine a society like that in America, except instead of tribes we would have states and commonwealths. It could be a confederate styled system.

Sounds familiar...

But the truth is, that arms market exists because of illegal smuggling and because of a demand--principally, they need those arms to survive.

Let America never have such need...

If you want a civilized society, a polite society, with lower priced class 3 weapons, then get the 1986 limitation repealed. Prices would go down, accessibility up, etc.

But as for the nuances of supplying a market with large quantities of automatic rifles and explosive rifles similar to the developing world, comrade, you are opening a can of worms that may not be well suited for a Web community...

Sit outside as the sun goes down, have a beer, and contemplate the many repercussions and benefits of such a move. Much thought and research will be necessary. Tempting, yes, but not something that should be rushed into.

Rachen
April 13, 2008, 10:16 PM
Threats to systematically execute a subculture tend to get those sorts of responses, yes.

I was just talking about the gangs. They killed many innocent people and terrorized whole communities. Just look at the damage that MS13 did to California.

And yes, let's get back on topic.

Justin
April 13, 2008, 10:16 PM
This thread is stupid.

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