Got my 1911 back from the gunsmith... and it still jams!!!!


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PirateRadio
April 14, 2008, 10:53 AM
After about a month of waiting, I finally got my SA 1911 Mil-Spec back from the gunsmith! :D

Well, I'm happy to say there are no more extractor problems. Now it jams in a different way. It seems like the rounds aren't making it up the feed ramp. They jam up when they are parallel with the slide and the nose of the round is just below the barrel. I took it home after hitting the range and cleaned the hell out of the gun. It seems to get better but there are still some rounds that are getting stuck. :cuss:

Any ideas of what the problem could be? Mag issue maybe?

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crankshop1000
April 14, 2008, 11:08 AM
Try a quality mag like Wilson Combat and see if that helps.

Supertac45
April 14, 2008, 11:21 AM
I'd try some different ammo and replace the recoil spring with a 18.5 pound one. I also reccommend the Wilson ETM for your magazines. Brownells have them in stock and they ship fast.

PirateRadio
April 14, 2008, 11:22 AM
Are the Springfield mags really that crappy?

VHinch
April 14, 2008, 11:23 AM
Tuner should be along shortly....

Until then, it does sound like a mag issue, without knowing a little more info on the malfunction it sounds like a timing issue with the release of the round. What magazines are you using?

As far as recoil springs go, personally I don't like anything other than a 16lb spring in a full size gun, but there are others that swear by the heavier weights. I don't think that's going to solve your problem here though.

10X
April 14, 2008, 11:23 AM
If you had work done on the extractor, when the round starts to feed is it properly hooked/captured by the extractor?

If I understand your description the round nose dives and does not get to the feed ramp. Sound like a weak magazine spring. I would try another good mag first.

PirateRadio
April 14, 2008, 11:26 AM
What magazines are you using?

The stock Springfield ones that came with the gun.

PirateRadio
April 14, 2008, 11:29 AM
If you had work done on the extractor, when the round starts to feed is it properly hooked/captured by the extractor?

If I understand your description the round nose dives and does not get to the feed ramp. Sound like a weak magazine spring. I would try another good mag first.

The extractor seems to be working find now.

I'll see if I can track down of of these Wilson mags.

It's off that the SA mags would wear out this fast. The gun is only like 2 months old.

Old Fuff
April 14, 2008, 11:39 AM
I know this is a radical idea, and I hate myself for making the suggestion, but I'll do it anyway. :uhoh:

Send it back to the manufacturer and DEMAND that they fix it!

Why are you spending YOUR money for gunsmithing services (that still haven't got the pistol ticking) or for new (and expensive) magazines or springs that may or may not work? Isn't it reasonable to expect that when you buy a new handgun it will work as it comes out of the box?

Tuner may come along and offer suggestions, and one or more of them might work. But the fact is, It's the manufacturer's responsibility to make it work, and no one elses. :banghead:

1911Tuner
April 14, 2008, 11:43 AM
Well, I'm happy to say there are no more extractor problems. Now it jams in a different way.

I'd venture a guess that the first suspect is that the smith put a little too much tension on the extractor.

If you can duplicate the stoppage by hand-feeding the gun...remove the extractor and see if it makes a difference. If it does...therein is where the bug nests.

Question:

Did the smith do a ramp'nthroat polish job? If he did...Look at the top of the feed ramp to see if he rolled the corner where it meets the barrel ramp.

saltydog452
April 14, 2008, 12:27 PM
Old Fuff does have a way with words...

salty

Walkalong
April 14, 2008, 12:33 PM
Yea, he is a radical dude. Asking the manufacturer to fix it like that. :uhoh:

:evil:

Technosavant
April 14, 2008, 12:35 PM
SA is excellent about fixing the bad eggs. You should have called them before having an outside smith look at it the first time, but now you have another chance.

PirateRadio
April 14, 2008, 12:36 PM
I know this is a radical idea, and I hate myself for making the suggestion, but I'll do it anyway.

Send it back to the manufacturer and DEMAND that they fix it!

Why are you spending YOUR money for gunsmithing services (that still haven't got the pistol ticking) or for new (and expensive) magazines or springs that may or may not work? Isn't it reasonable to expect that when you buy a new handgun it will work as it comes out of the box?

Tuner may come along and offer suggestions, and one or more of them might work. But the fact is, It's the manufacturer's responsibility to make it work, and no one elses.

There are a couple reasons I went to a smith rather than send it back to SA. The first being that sending it out would cost roughly the same as having the smith look at it. The second, being that I didn't know what the turnaround time would be at SA because I'm going on a trip in a few weeks and I really want to being the 1911 along.

The gunsmith is a authorized SA smith, too.

PirateRadio
April 14, 2008, 12:42 PM
I'd venture a guess that the first suspect is that the smith put a little too much tension on the extractor.

If you can duplicate the stoppage by hand-feeding the gun...remove the extractor and see if it makes a difference. If it does...therein is where the bug nests.

Question:

Did the smith do a ramp'nthroat polish job? If he did...Look at the top of the feed ramp to see if he rolled the corner where it meets the barrel ramp.

I'll give that a shot!

Can anyone point me in the direction of some good instructions to remove the extractor?

I'll check the feed ramp when I get home.

Walkalong
April 14, 2008, 12:43 PM
The first being that sending it out would cost roughly the same as having the smith look at it.Springfield will reimburse shipping. it'll take a couple or three weeks to get the check, but they will send it.

PirateRadio
April 14, 2008, 12:46 PM
Springfield will reimburse shipping. it'll take a couple or three weeks to get the check, but they will send it.

Really? Did not know that...

I'm so used to being stuck with shipping when I have to send something back to the manf.

I'm going to talk to the smith again and see what he says. If I have to pay to have him fix this then I'm just going to suck it up and send it back to SA.

Harley Quinn
April 14, 2008, 12:50 PM
That is good to hear that a company stands behind their product and will reimburse the outlay of shipping to get the product to them.

I recently sent in an early 1988 Glock 17L to get some warranty work done. It cost me to ship it but they did all the work and shipped it back (cost to them). I did not get reimbursed for the original shipment (felt that was ok):uhoh:

To have a gunsmith work on your weapon and you still have a problem is pretty irritating for sure:cuss:
You have received some good advise hope it helps you.:)

gb6491
April 14, 2008, 03:29 PM
Can anyone point me in the direction of some good instructions to remove the extractor?

Maybe not the best, but it'll get you there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEBrkF0sMgI

Extractor Tuning Tips (http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm)

Regards,
Greg

Solid
April 14, 2008, 04:56 PM
I would take the gun back, but that's just me.

BeJaRa
April 14, 2008, 05:03 PM
I had to send my champion back to SA and they reimbursed me for shipping and had the gun back in my hand 13 days after I shipped it to them. I was very happy with the customer service from Springfield. I was happy with the whole experience.

JohnBT
April 14, 2008, 05:19 PM
Extractor removal, page 30

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/springfield_1911.pdf

LeonCarr
April 14, 2008, 05:37 PM
I won't say it

Cloudpeak
April 14, 2008, 11:56 PM
You're going to go back to the smith who didn't fix your gun the first time to see what he thinks? It cost nothing to ship to or from Springfield and no charge for warranty work. Of course, if someone "smiths" your pistol and screws up, Springfield may not cover THAT repair.

Sorry, I've had and know of some bad experiences with "gunsmith's". Anyone can hang a shingle.

Cloudpeak

PirateRadio
April 15, 2008, 11:04 AM
You're going to go back to the smith who didn't fix your gun the first time to see what he thinks? It cost nothing to ship to or from Springfield and no charge for warranty work. Of course, if someone "smiths" your pistol and screws up, Springfield may not cover THAT repair.

Sorry, I've had and know of some bad experiences with "gunsmith's". Anyone can hang a shingle.

Cloudpeak

I meant I'm going to go back and see if he's going to fix his mistake free of charge.

2nd 41
April 15, 2008, 11:16 AM
You're going to go back to the smith who didn't fix your gun the first time to see what he thinks?
I'd kiss him good-bye

Lonestar49
April 15, 2008, 12:32 PM
...

~ Burn me once, shame on you.. Burn me twice, shame on me ~


Send it to those that know your gun inside out and take pride in making all their guns with a lifetime warranty, and stand behind it..


Ls

Cloudpeak
April 15, 2008, 12:56 PM
I'd venture a guess that the first suspect is that the smith put a little too much tension on the extractor.

If you can duplicate the stoppage by hand-feeding the gun...remove the extractor and see if it makes a difference. If it does...therein is where the bug nests.

My bet is that 1911Tuner hit the nail on the head (as he usually does). When I was having feeding problems with my Champion he pointed me towards an extractor tension problem. I lessened extractor tension and it solved my feeding problems. It's easy to check this out and fix yourself. A valuable resource: http://forum.m1911.org/forumdisplay.php?f=117

I noticed the rounds were feeding up the left side of the ramp. Easy to see after some lead bullet round were fired through the pistol and the ramp was dirty. You could use a black Sharpie on the the feed ramp to see if this a problem in your gun before sending it back. It's possible that, after reading the 1911.org forum you may end up knowing more about your 1911 than the "smith" who worked on your gun.

Cloudpeak

(Though this is a ramped barrel, you may have similar "tracks" on your feed ramp on your 1911)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/WyoBob/Guns/DSCN1422.jpg

Harley Quinn
April 15, 2008, 01:06 PM
I meant I'm going to go back and see if he's going to fix his mistake free of charge.

Could be something wrong that you could talk over with the gunsmith and see if you can get it fixed:uhoh: Once others work on warranty pistols the warranty seems to be invalid.

Good luck

eric.cartman
April 15, 2008, 03:24 PM
Are the Springfield mags really that crappy?

YES!

Had same problems with my S.A. 1911, I threw out the factory mags, and the problem went away :)

1 old 0311
April 15, 2008, 03:26 PM
Got to wonder if I would EVER trust a pistol marked 'Some Assembly Required.':what:

1911Tuner
April 15, 2008, 05:47 PM
Are the Springfield mags really that crappy?

YES!

NO! The standard 7-round magazines are actually pretty good. It's the springs that ain't worth spit, and occasionally the follower angle needs to be opened up a tick...but once that's done, they generally do very well, assuming that the gun itself is right.

JDGray
April 15, 2008, 05:50 PM
I bought a boat load of the 7rd mags with my loaded coupon, grate value, and no problems so far.:)

dirtdog
April 15, 2008, 06:20 PM
Put in a 20 lb recoil spring for about 300 rounds then go to a 18 1/2 lb recoil spring.

former-redberet
April 15, 2008, 06:27 PM
*Puts on a flame retardant suit* Get a glock ;) (or sig)

BTW: my 1911 springer mags do just fine

Harley Quinn
April 15, 2008, 07:39 PM
Put in a 20 lb recoil spring for about 300 rounds then go to a 18 1/2 lb recoil spring.

That is a simple solution that just might do the trick, the extra umph is what you need going back into battery to feed those critters:)

:uhoh:

PhillyGlocker
April 15, 2008, 07:50 PM
How about getting a Glock? Problem solved.

Lonestar49
April 15, 2008, 07:57 PM
...

Well, some people just have better taste.. :neener:


Ls

JoeSlomo
April 15, 2008, 08:59 PM
My money is on the extractor...

After reading some troubleshooting tips by Mr. Tuner and co., I found that my formerly-possessed-by-satan-failure-to-feed-and-return-to-battery-POS-brand-new-kimber fed rounds as smooth as silk WITHOUT said possessed extractor. After tweaking it a bit to remove some tension, most of the feed problems vanished. After sending it to a competent smith, who builds long range bench rest rifles that shoot STUPID accurate groups from WAY too far away, the evil spirits have seemingly been exorsized from said demon kimber.

He smoothed up some of the angles on the extractor, and tweaked the tension with a tool, aside from doing some nice trigger work and a front sight installation. The once-formerly-possessed-by-satan-himself-Kimber has managed to get through about 300 rounds now with no issues using the same mags I used when it choked.

A good smith is like a good mechanic or barber. When you find one, stick with them.

Bottom line: Don't give up on the gun.

Unlike some of the other models, ie glocks, HK's, etc, you can LITERALLY make the 1911 YOURS by customizing it to YOUR liking. It may take some figuring to get it tuned up, but it CAN be tuned, and they DO run like the wind once you get em' set up nice.

MY SA 5" govt spec ran like a deer right out of the box using ANY mag and ANY ammo I put into it. That thing fired rounds that choked a USP .45, and I would absolutely stake my life on it's reliability. Granted, she's a loose gun and not as accurate as my formerly-possessed-by-the-dark-lord-Kimber, but I would carry it over the Kimber now, until the Kimber proves as reliable.

1911Tuner
April 15, 2008, 09:33 PM
Put in a 20 lb recoil spring for about 300 rounds then go to a 18 1/2 lb recoil spring.

Yeah. You can slap a band-aid on it...or you can just fix the gun.

wristtwister
April 15, 2008, 09:47 PM
Regardless of what's wrong with your pistol, the factory is the place to fix it.

It's their product, and if you're the "original" owner, you should get good service out of them. I like working on guns myself, but I take old guns and work on them. If somebody brought me a "new" gun, I'd send it straight to the factory and let them determine what the problem was. It could have been built on a monday morning or a friday afternoon... when the staff was either hung over or in a hurry to leave... who knows... but I can assure you that they want people making positive comments about their products... and their customer service.

I've had issues with both Smith and Wesson and Ruger, and both have prepaid shipping, constant monitoring of the work order, and are looking for their product reputation to be enhanced rather than disparaged. They take care of people who buy their products... and I suspect your manufacturer is wanting that same opportunity.

If you're going to pay somebody to fix your gun, who knows more about it than the factory that made it? When all else fails... use common sense.

WT

1911Tuner
April 15, 2008, 09:51 PM
who knows more about it than the factory that made it?

Oh...I can name about a dozen right off the top of my head.

kansas45
April 15, 2008, 10:16 PM
Unless you consider your gunsmith a complete idiot, (why did you take the thing to him in the first place?) take the gun back to him & let him make it right. Pretty much everybody can make a mistake, what seperates them from the others is the ability to admit the mistake, then fix it. And you might be doing the guy a favour. He will probably be more careful the next time he does a job like yours.

huduguru
April 17, 2008, 05:21 PM
PhillyGlocker, have to agree with you on that. If it's good enough for the
Gunny(Ermey), it's good for me :D

Old Fuff
April 17, 2008, 07:44 PM
... who knows more about it than the factory that made it?

and...

Oh...I can name about a dozen right off the top of my head.

I'd say Tuner was right. If the various junk-makers were doing things right this thread, and many like it wouldn't be here. :scrutiny:

gudel
April 18, 2008, 09:17 PM
Can you get your money back? I'd ask him that.

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