Lethal Disconnect at Virginia Tech:What are They Teaching the Students?


PDA






Winchester 73
April 14, 2008, 02:18 PM
Interesting commentary from Joseph Farah.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=61494

Lethal disconnect at Virginia Tech

Posted: April 14, 2008

Virginia Tech's Norris Hall in Blacksburg, Va. / Roanoke Times

I'm starting to wonder: What exactly are they teaching students at Virginia Tech?

This question came to me as I was reading about a protest planned on campus for April 16, the one-year anniversary of the massacre by a crazed gunman of 32 people.

What is the protest about?

It is to demand stricter gun control.

At first blush, that may not seem surprising. Inevitably there are always calls for stricter gun control in the wake of gun violence. That this particular protest is being organized by the zealots from the Brady Campaign is par for the course.

But here's where I grow perplexed about this particular protest. The massacre at Virginia Tech last year occurred on a campus that already maintained a strict ban on guns. In fact, it was part of a state university system that had only recently banned all guns on campuses – even for those with carry permits.

So my question is: Besides the current permanent, no-exceptions ban on all civilian firearms on campus, what exactly do these protesters have in mind?

Presumably, what they have in mind, is to ban civilian firearms off campus, too – throughout the rest of the country.

Now not only would this be a violation of the Constitution, it would only serve to set the stage for more Virginia Tech-style massacres throughout the rest of the country.

What are these students studying at Virginia Tech? Logic? Constitutional law? Statistics? History?

The Virginia Tech massacre didn't represent a failure of the inherent right to bear arms and defend oneself. It illustrated the abject failure of an ideology that maintains creating gun-free zones and disarming law-abiding civilians will actually protect innocent people from gunfire.

It would be akin to the people of Washington, D.C., the murder capital of the U.S., where civilian firearms are banned, telling the rest of America we should follow their good example.

Would that make any sense?

Neither does it make sense for a campus known internationally for a slaughter of innocents to tell the rest of us how to avoid such tragedies.

Yet, that's exactly what is planned this Wednesday at Virginia Tech when 32 students – and, no doubt, some equally insightful faculty members as well – will take part in a noon "lie-in" at an athletic field.

Leave it to those advocating provably disastrous policies that result only in murder and mayhem to politicize a tragedy their very ideas helped create.

You might think the first anniversary of such a horrendous massacre would be a time for sober reflection, prayer, unity. But not for the gun grabbers. They never miss an opportunity to promote their political agenda – one, by the way, that results in massacres and genocide every single time it is embraced by government and accepted by people anywhere in the world and at every time throughout history.

From Josef Stalin to Adolf Hitler to Mao Zedong to Rwanda to the killing fields of Cambodia, seizing guns always results in mass murder and genocide.

You can't name a genocide that occurred in a country whose government respected and protected the people's unalienable right to armed self-defense. There are none in recorded history. And, on a smaller scale, it is statistically provable that fewer guns equal more crime – especially gun-related homicides. More guns, on the other hand, as statistician John Lott has shown, equal less crime.

I don't expect to persuade Sara Brady and her fanatical friends to call off their plans at Virginia Tech because they grasp the logic of what I am saying here. Because logic clearly has nothing to do with their symbolic "lie-in."

But I will say this about them: They have properly named the event. Because it's all about a big lie.

If you enjoyed reading about "Lethal Disconnect at Virginia Tech:What are They Teaching the Students?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
JohnBT
April 14, 2008, 02:54 PM
"What are these students studying at Virginia Tech? Logic? Constitutional law? Statistics? History?"

It's a well respected school offering a wide variety of courses. What kind of dumb question is that to ask about a school with 30,000 students. Does the author think they are all studying the same thing?

No doubt they are studying better writing than what I see in this article. As to specifics, the following seems to be the prevailing attitude on campus. Not only are protesters not welcome on the Drillfield, whether or not they manage somehow [fat chance] to get a permit, they aren't welcome at all that day.


"Tech's Student Government Association passed a resolution Tuesday night asking protesters "to respect the Virginia Tech community's wish to peacefully embrace the university day of remembrance by holding their demonstrations on a different date."

Sophomore Alyson Boyce, one of the sponsors of the resolution, said it isn't meant to discourage protests in general.

"We just want April 16 to be a day to honor our friends," she said.

-- from a local paper


John
Class of '72

Standing Wolf
April 14, 2008, 03:00 PM
It would be akin to the people of Washington, D.C., the murder capital of the U.S., where civilian firearms are banned, telling the rest of America we should follow their good example.

Well, as a matter of fact, that's precisely what the leftist extremists have been advocating all along.

Lenin would have understood.

JohnBT
April 14, 2008, 03:06 PM
I don't see a lie in on the schedule. John

From the New River Valley News -

"On this day, the Virginia Tech community reflects on the vibrant lives of the 32 students and faculty who were tragically taken from us a year ago. Through light, art, and music we pay tribute to each and every person we lost. We gather to honor our friends, colleagues, and family members. We will never forget.

Schedule of Events

10:30am to 12:00noon - University Commemoration (Drillfield): Virginia Tech President Charles W. Steger will open the event and welcome those assembled. The names of the 32 students and faculty who lost their lives one year ago and a few words about the special qualities of each person will be read aloud. Governor Tim Kaine will close the program with special comments.
Sundown (approximately 8:15pm) - Candlelight Vigil (Drillfield): Organized by Virginia Tech students, the vigil will begin using a ceremonial candle at the university memorial site that will burn during the entire day.


Expressions of Remembrance

10:00am to 10:00pm - Art Exhibit
Perspectives Gallery, Squires Student Center
Exhibit: "April 16: Remembrance, Recognition and Healing"
7:00am to Midnight - Meditation
Jamestown Room, Squires Student Center
10:00am to 11:30pm - BreakZONE
Squires Student Center
Free admission all day.
12:00Noon to 3:00pm - Dance/Performance
Commonwealth Ballroom
Stage available for group singing or dancing performance; sign-up on location.
12:00Noon to 5:00pm - Remembering Through Art Creation
Old Dominion Ballroom
Express your thoughts and feelings through creating art in various mediums.
Noon to 8:00pm - Reflection and Music
War Memorial Chapel
Musicians will be providing music in order to create a space for reflection and remembrance.
1:00pm to 3:00pm - Garden Tours: Hahn Horticulture Gardens Meadow Garden
Peggy Lee Hahn Garden Pavilion, West Patio
Enjoy the beauty and tranquility of the Hahn Horticulture Garden in spring as the professional staff guide you through the features of the garden. Tours start every 30 minutes.
1:00pm to 4:00pm - Chess for Fun
Brush Mountain Room Squires Student Center
Come by for a relaxing time playing and/or learning chess. All skill and experience levels welcome.
1:00pm to 4:00pm - Open Microphone
Deet's Coffee Shop
Opportunity to share poetry, individual song, or writings; sign-up on location.
3:00pm - Virginia Tech Softball vs. Liberty
Tech Softball Park
Having been one of the first teams to return to action last spring, members of the Virginia Tech softball team wanted to play in memory of those who lost their lives and those who were injured and traumatized by the events of April 16, 2007. A pre-game remembrance will occur prior to the first pitch. For more information, contact Bryan Johnston, Athletics Communications, (540) 231-3387.
3:00pm to 5:00pm (doors open at 2:00pm) Dance/Performance
Haymarket Theatre
1st Annual Remembrance Through Dance: In Memory of Reema Samaha. More information: http://www.cde.org.vt.edu/ "

SomeKid
April 14, 2008, 03:29 PM
They don't teach, they merely spoon-feed Kool-Aid.

ZeSpectre
April 14, 2008, 03:53 PM
Folks, it's the ProtestEasyGuns.com bunch trying to run their agenda and "lie-in". In point of fact VT has told them "no thanks, we don't want you on campus"....and the ProtestEasyGuns.com group has said that they are going to stage their "event" anyway.

More news here
Virginia Tech blocks plans of gun-control group (http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-04-08-0119.html)

Virginia Tech blocks plans of gun-control group
Brady Campaign won't get permit for event on April 16

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2008 - 12:20 AM Updated: 12:51 AM
By REX BOWMAN
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER

Virginia Tech said yesterday that it will not allow a national gun-control advocacy group to hold a campus demonstration on April 16 while the school commemorates last year's massacre.

Tech spokesman Larry Hincker said neither the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence nor the co-sponsor of the planned demonstration, ProtestEasyGuns.com, had applied for an assembly permit, and even if they had, Tech only issues permits to student groups.

Tech's position threw the Brady Campaign's plans into disarray yesterday: The noon demonstration at Tech was supposed to be the centerpiece of a nationwide series of events on April 16 in more than 70 cities and towns.

"I think we'll have to figure out what's going on," said Brady Campaign spokesman Doug Pennington. He added that students and friends of last year's shooting victims are among those who want to participate in the demonstration, "so, I'm sure where there's a will, there's a way without breaking any rules."

The planned demonstration at Tech called for individuals to lie down on the Drillfield in groups of 32 -- to recall the 32 victims of gunman Seung-Hui Cho -- for a few minutes. The brevity of the "lie-in" is meant to highlight how quickly a gun can be purchased in the United States. The Brady Campaign is calling on Congress to mandate background checks of buyers at gun shows.

Tech is marking the shootings on April 16 with a ceremony that begins in the morning and is expected to run past noon. The daylong memorial ends with an evening candlelight vigil.

Hincker said no student group will be given an assembly permit for the Drillfield at noon.

"We expect that the ceremony will likely cross the noon hour, and we will not be allowing other groups to interfere with the remembrance event."

Pennington said the Brady Campaign could have a new plan in place as early as today.

"It's just a matter of, if not here -- and it sounds like that's the case -- then where?"
Contact Rex Bowman at (540) 344-3612 or rbowman@timesdispatch.com.

mbt2001
April 14, 2008, 04:43 PM
We should get their protest "in a box" crap and then protest them by lying down...

These people have no idea what laws are on the books.

mbt2001
April 14, 2008, 05:03 PM
One thing that is hard to deny, is that the more gun laws there are, the more crimes there seems to be...

ctdonath
April 14, 2008, 05:23 PM
Does the author think they are all studying the same thing?
No, but the author does think they are all studying things which should make apparent the absurdity of the protest.

jakemccoy
April 14, 2008, 06:16 PM
Article says,
What are these students studying at Virginia Tech? Logic? Constitutional law? Statistics? History?


That question is not a swipe toward Virginia Tech generally, but rather a swipe toward the protestors specifically. It's a legitimate question that's part of learning about a bigger picture...

What courses are these protestors studying?

What are their backgrounds?

Who are these people?

Is the anti-gun ideology isolated to a small minority of protestors or is the ideology prevalent throughout Virginia Tech?

I'd be keen on researching the answers to these questions if my kid applied to Virginia Tech. I'd take statements like "Virginia Tech is a well respected school offering a wide variety of courses" and treat them as opinion.

tntwatt
April 14, 2008, 06:44 PM
There comes a time in every adults life when they have to put asided childhood fantasy and live in the practical real world. Colleges are notorious for not teaching students this simple fact of life.

Childhood: everyone is nice and good
Adult: there will always be mean and bad people

Childhood: everyone obeys the rules so more rules help everyone
Adult: only good people obey the rules and there will always be bad people

Childhood: we can fix the world's problems and if we just believe hard enough, and scream loud enough, everyone will be happy
Adult: you can only fix a problem by recognizing the root cause and acting against it, there will always be bad people

Childhood: facts don't matter if we don't want them to
Adult: using facts and cognizant rationalization is the only way to solve problems

Childhood: guns are bad
Adult: bad people with guns are bad

Childhood: if we get rid of guns, no one will die
Adult: if we get rid of guns only bad people will have guns

Coyote Blue
April 14, 2008, 10:07 PM
VT President Charles Steger and Vice-Principal Larry Hinckler have yet to take responsibility for their push in the Virginia Legislature to not allow CWP holders to carry on campus and claimed this would make a safer college environment.
This ,7 months before Cho proved a maniac does not follow all these civilized rules.
Steger & Hinckler have never apologized for their unpardonable actions and should have been let go eons ago.
But PC being the way it is ,they'll probably be there for life.
Both are a total disgrace,not just to VT,but higher education at large.
JohnBT,I understand you are a VT alumnis and this is an open wound.
But huge mistakes continue to be made by higher authority on the campus of this wonderful school.

Drail
April 14, 2008, 10:36 PM
tntwatt, Very well said. College age children. I would be willing to live through boot camp all over again just to watch some of these kids deal with a Drill Instructor.

JohnBT
April 14, 2008, 10:41 PM
"Is the anti-gun ideology isolated to a small minority of protestors or is the ideology prevalent throughout Virginia Tech?"

If you knew anything about Tech and it's 30,000 students you wouldn't be asking.

There's the usual mix of urban kids and farm kids with majors ranging from engineering to architecture to animal science (including a vet school.) After all, it was founded as a land grant school - the Virginia Agricultural and Mechanical College - in 1872. And heck, it's 40 miles from the closest thing that'll pass for a small city - Roanoke. It's not like any of us wanted to go to school in a big city. Or even Charlottesville, speaking of liberals. :)

There's the Corps of Cadets Gregory Guard http://spec.lib.vt.edu/archives/125th/cadets/news/ward1.htm

"The organization's namesake, Sergeant Earl D. Gregory, was a member of the VPI class of 1923. Gregory was the first native Virginian to receive the Congressional Medal of Honor. The Gregorian Guard today is an organization that tries to serve the Tech community through performance and service projects. The Guard is a proficient silent armed drill team, meaning that during performances the drill routines are done without vocal commands.

The Guard is currently armed with 1903 A3 rifle, though they do plan, funds permitting, to switch to the M-1 rifle, a standard military drill weapon."
_________
And the...
School site: www.recsports.vt.edu/clubs/ClubInfo.php?club_pk=4

Virginia Tech Clay Target Team www.vtclays.org.vt.edu/index.htm
_________

It's not like the students don't see guns on campus all the time.

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/archives/125th/cadets/women/images/p12.jpeg

"New cadets drill in front of Lane Hall."

John
Class of '72

JohnBT
April 14, 2008, 10:47 PM
"But huge mistakes continue to be made by higher authority on the campus of this wonderful school."

That is an entirely different subject than thinking a handful of student protesters out of 30,000 represents the school or all of the students and then making some wild leap of thought about what the school is teaching. That's just farfetched BS.

I think the world saw how levelheaded Tech students are during the weeks of neverending media attention.

John

jakemccoy
April 14, 2008, 11:53 PM
The student body could be overwhelmingly anti-gun, regardless of demographics or history of the school. There could be influential faculty members who have a decidedly anti-gun lean. It's dangerous to have an attitude of, "nothing to see here folks, move along."

The academic process is all about asking questions and exploring possibilities, even if the answers may be uncomfortable or embarrassing. There's nothing wrong with posing questions about the protestors. After all, anti-gun people like Obama and Hillary received educations from some of the so-called best schools in the country.

SpeedAKL
April 15, 2008, 01:19 AM
Virginia Tech is NOT the one doing the protest. It's an activist group made up of students and various gun-grabber groups. There is a major discussion on gun control currently going on Facebook right now on the protest's event page. Half of the antis are not even Tech students; some of them are from other schools, some are lawyers and hippies from various activist organizations. What you have here is a small group of lefty students partnering with the gun-grabbers for a shock protest.

It has actually caused a fair amount of controversy here on campus; the administration isn't pro-gun but also isn't comfortable having such a provocative protest happening during the memorial ceremonies. Personally, while I acknowledge their right to free speech I find it highly distasteful to "play dead" like the victims that so many people here are grieving over right now in order to make a political point.

JohnBT
April 15, 2008, 08:33 AM
Here's a letter the school paper just published. I still contend that the vast majority of students at Tech are wise enough to see reality with clear eyes, no matter what the administration is doing. JT


http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stori...pril_16_lie-in

Letter: Shameful truth of the April 16 lie-in

Letter to the editor

Tuesday, April 15; 12:00 AM

Many students, including myself, are disgusted that a political protest is planned to occur on April 16.

The protest is affiliated with a national group called ProtestEasyGuns, whose self-stated objective is the elimination of the so-called "gun show loophole."

This group is exploiting our day of mourning as a ploy to get national media coverage for an agenda entirely unrelated to the April 16 tragedy.

The only way that this group can justify relevancy to April 16 is by outright lying.

In "Administration, SGA, advocates tangle over lie-in," (CT, April 9) they were quoted as saying they will be lying (pun intended) on the Drillfield for three minutes because, "that's how long it took Cho to purchase a gun without a background check."

The truth is, Cho was subjected to background checks for both of the firearms he purchased.

The group also stated that 40 percent of sales at gun shows are done by unlicensed private sellers.

What they left out is that this statistic is only true if you count the numerous vendors who don't sell guns but rather books, clothing, collectibles, accessories, etc. The term "gun show loophole" is in itself misleading because there is no "loophole."

You cannot do anything at a gun show that is otherwise illegal elsewhere.

The reality is that Cho bought both of his guns through licensed dealers, received background checks for each one, and waited the mandatory 30 days between purchases. The positions supported by this protest would not have changed a single thing on April 16.

Another way that this group attempts to justify trampling on our sacred day is by conjuring up the notion that their cause is the key to preventing violence and therefore justifies extreme action. A little history reveals that before the Gun Control Act of 1968, guns were vastly easier to obtain than they are today.

Despite this, there weren't any school shootings back then. My point is that the issue of stopping violence is an important one and it is a disservice to oversimplify it.

There are many politically minded groups that formed as a result of April 16. To my knowledge, ProtestEasyGuns is the only group that has chosen to violate our mourning.

Make no mistake; this protest is not about honoring the victims. It is about using our misfortune for easy media exposure.

Warren Eastham
junior, mechanical engineering

Letters to the Editor:
opinionseditor@collegiatetimes.com

JohnBT
April 15, 2008, 08:37 AM
Here's another:

Letter: Honoring April 16

Letter to the editorTuesday, April 8; 12:00 AM

We may be a new organization on campus, but early on we declared that April 16, 2008 would be off-limits for discussing our movement or conducting any activities.
Students for Concealed Carry on Campus at Virginia Tech consists of Virginia Tech students and alumni who respect the right to carry a firearm responsibly as a means of self-defense.

One of our biggest goals is to share the facts and reasoning that brought us to support this, as many of us were against firearms previously. It takes some time to see this, so we encourage anyone who opposes concealed carry or is undecided about it to take some time researching the matter and make a well-informed decision. As such, it is imperative that our activities be respectful and educational.

To this end, it is clear that holding a protest on a day of remembrance would be quite inappropriate, and we have never considered it.

Any rumors circulating that we're doing otherwise should be addressed by this official statement. Further, most members have people they wish to remember and honor on that day, and will use the time off from classes to do so. SCCC at VT has also turned down all requests for interviews to be posted or aired on April 16, and will not take interviews on the day, either.

This includes the Collegiate Times, who asked our group for input on gun legislation to be posted in the April 16 special edition paper. We respectfully declined, and suggested that such items be printed another day.

No matter what your beliefs, your politics or your background, they should be set aside on April 16. Just one year earlier we joined together and did just that; the world saw what is amazing about Tech. We should do that once again. Whether you support SCCC's movement or not, I think you can agree.

Ken Stanton
Ph.D. student, engineering education

Winchester 73
April 15, 2008, 01:47 PM
The reality is that Cho bought both of his guns through licensed dealers, received background checks for each one, and waited the mandatory 30 days between purchases. The positions supported by this protest would not have changed a single thing on April 16.

Another way that this group attempts to justify trampling on our sacred day is by conjuring up the notion that their cause is the key to preventing violence and therefore justifies extreme action. A little history reveals that before the Gun Control Act of 1968, guns were vastly easier to obtain than they are today.

Despite this, there weren't any school shootings back then. My point is that the issue of stopping violence is an important one and it is a disservice to oversimplify it.


Excellent points made by Warren Eastham in his fine letter.
Thank you,JohnBT ,for sharing these letters with us.

jakemccoy
April 15, 2008, 02:25 PM
JohnBT,

Those letters from the students are nice to see. The fact that they came from current students goes a long way with informing other students at Virginia Tech. If I had written these letters, they would not have had much impact because I'm neither young nor an alumnus. These letters hopefully reflect a prevailing ideology at Virginia Tech and will sway a few young people to be pro-gun.

-Jake

JohnBT
April 15, 2008, 03:46 PM
Hot dog. I need one of these. "Team Deer" :)

www.maroonhelmet.com/detail.aspx?ID=7137

http://www.maroonhelmet.com/images/VTTEAMDEER350.jpg


"Hunt Label Virginia Tech T-shirt"

Only $13.99

If you enjoyed reading about "Lethal Disconnect at Virginia Tech:What are They Teaching the Students?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!