unload your gun before going into a gunshow?


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lionken07
April 14, 2008, 11:11 PM
I was asked if Im carrying at the entrance of a gun show here in CT. I told him yes and at which point i was ask to unload it. I told them i will just put it in my car. There is no way I would knowingly take it out and unload it in front of so many people in the line. It stays in the leather the way it should...

I don't know...I would expect a gunshow to be more gun friendly...

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never_retreat
April 14, 2008, 11:14 PM
Answer to that question would always be NO. Concealed weapons permits aren't public record for a reason.

p2000sk
April 14, 2008, 11:18 PM
So you were asked to blow concealment...
In Connecticut?

You picked a wiser choice.

If something were concealed, maybe they shouldn't know about it anyhow.

Firearm? What firearm? No statutory violation here right?

Tribal
April 14, 2008, 11:27 PM
The gun show folks have the same right as any other business to ask whether or not you're carrying on the premises, to expect an answer, and to expel you if so (or, should they choose, if you don't have a loaded gun, for that matter). I would expect that they zip-tie any unloaded firearms you bring in as well.

Every gun show I've ever been to has had a cop (or several) right there. I'm pretty sure I've seen the dealers open-carrying loaded weapons as well. If you either feel it absolutely necessary to be ready, carry a knife (or fingernail clippers) and a loaded mag in your pocket.

Leif Runenritzer
April 14, 2008, 11:38 PM
I always have to take the ammunition out of my mag.

DoubleTapDrew
April 15, 2008, 12:15 AM
I figured it's the insurance company for the facility saying "NO WAY we want thousands of guys test fitting holsters with loaded guns and so many people around", but who knows.

mp510
April 15, 2008, 12:22 AM
I figured it's the insurance company for the facility saying "NO WAY we want thousands of guys test fitting holsters with loaded guns and so many people around", but who knows.
Yeah, I assume that it has something to do with insurance or liability concerns as well. I was at the same show, and they disallow ammo coming in as well.

retgarr
April 15, 2008, 12:26 AM
I am guessing the reason they ask you to unload and then put a tie through your chamber so it can be seen as unloaded is because of all the bowsing and handling of gun's that goes on. There is so much dry firing and the shows are so crowded that they are trying to minimize the chances of a mistake occurring. Seems like a reasonable idea to me.

mnrivrat
April 15, 2008, 12:33 AM
So a gunshow is an acceptable "gun free" zone ? NAW ! Not for me, I would just go back home. The guns brought in for sale or trade - absolutely. Concealed carry guns - no .

Firethorn
April 15, 2008, 12:33 AM
I consider my CCW weapon as separate from any that I might be showing, selling, testing, etc...

The CCW doesn't come out unless there's a need to use it. It doesn't matter if I find a great deal on magazines and want to test the fit - that can be later, or me going back to my car to unload.

They can zip tie the rifle.

jrfoxx
April 15, 2008, 12:45 AM
I fully agree with Firethorn and mnrivrat above. CCW guns are a separate issue. They have the right to ask, and I have the right to leave, lie, or tell the truth, at which point they also have the right to ask me to leave, or not come in at all, or let me in. So far I have been asked only once if I had any guns with me, and the asker was not a cop to the best of my knowledge, so my answer was no. I went in, nothing happened, everybody happy. Every other show, they never ask because they either dont care, or since I dont have a gun visible, they dont bother. either way, it's a non-issue with me for the most part as it just doesnt come up.

tntwatt
April 15, 2008, 12:48 AM
be sure your state doesn't have a "no CCW at a public gathering" clause. In Macon,Ga ,the last show had big signs saying the show was a public gathering and therefore illegal for CCW. It may have been due to the location which was the city owned Centerplex.

Plus, it is s.o.p. at many competitions to have a cold range for safety purposes.

I have actually seen a friend get shot while standing at a counter because the moron next to us brought in a gun to sell and dry fired his "empty" weapon while pointing it in my friends direction. Every one of us has met a moron like this at some time.

I'm willing to zip tie my weapon and keep the mag in my pocket if it makes idiots like these safer for me to be around.

mnrivrat
April 15, 2008, 01:48 AM
I'm willing to zip tie my weapon and keep the mag in my pocket if it makes idiots like these safer for me to be around.

I must be getting old because I am tired of having to give up things just because there are idiots in or mist. I know what you mean - I'm just getting tired of loosing my rights over what "might" happen , or what does happen because of idiots. (or just careless people for that matter).

I can live with a gun show that doesn't allow CCW because of their insurance, their state regulations, or some other reasonably ligitiment reason. This should however be part of the advertisiment for the show and not addressed at the doors where it is dangerous in my mind for people to have to "unload" their CCW in a crowded public area. Just me and my thoughts.

Treo
April 15, 2008, 02:17 AM
The Sertoma gunshow here in Co Springs is posted No loaded Firearms/ No concealed carry. I never thought of the legallities ( in Colorado the can only disarm you if there are signs posted & metal detectors that EVERYONE must go through.

As I was writing this it occured to me that I'd rather go W/out my gun for an hour or so than be accused of trying to steal it if I got caught.

makarovnik
April 15, 2008, 02:50 AM
We are reqiured to unload our guns before going into the gun show. We also can not have any magazines that are loaded. Then they pull the slide back or open the cylinder and run a zip tie through the barrel. They do have random searches and if you are caught breaking the rules they revoke your membership for life.

This is the Washington Arms Collecter's gun shows and you pay a yearly membership fee to avoid paying $10 (maybe it's $15 now) to get into each show. You can also bring a guest in for free.

The same safety precautions apply to the dealers selling guns at the show.

bogie
April 15, 2008, 03:14 AM
All it take is for one damn fool to pull his boomstick out of his holster, to either see if another boomstick fits, or to see if the boomstick fits a different holster, or just to show the darn thing off, and simultaneously getting stupid with a boogerhook, and then you have a loud noise, followed by a profound silence.

I have personally witnessed such an event. The City of St. Louis no longer has gun shows inside the city limits.

chris in va
April 15, 2008, 03:24 AM
The big show here in VA has signs apologizing for the policy, but their insurance requires it. I don't have a problem with it at a gun show.

TAB
April 15, 2008, 03:25 AM
I've been to dozens of gun shows in atleast 7 states. I have never been to one that allowed unsecured firearms in the show.

jrfoxx
April 15, 2008, 05:40 AM
I must be getting old because I am tired of having to give up things just because there are idiots in or mist. I know what you mean - I'm just getting tired of loosing my rights over what "might" happen , or what does happen because of idiots. (or just careless people for that matter).

Agreed. OR has no laws about "no weapons" signs.no "public gathering" nonsense, etc. I can carry ANYWHERE except federal buildings,secure portions of a jail, secure portions of a prison, or a courthouse past the security checkpoint. beyond that, it's legal. If they find out I have a gun they can ask me to leave. that's it. Course, theyt can ask anyone to leave for ANY reason, just like normal, so the gun is irrelevant.If some idiot shoots off his gun at a show, that sure isnt my fault in any way, and would have happened wether I had my gun on me or not, so I dont see why I should have to disarm, since it wont keep anyone any safer by me doing so.If they want to put up metal detectors, or make people volunteer to be searched to enter, that fine. They are free to enforce their rules if they see fit to do so. But they shouldnt be surprised when I, and many others stop going and they loose out on money by doing so. If they dont lose enough to care, more power to 'em. If they loose enough business that having a show isnt worth it, and stop having them, thats thier problem. There are LOTS of places I can get the same stuff a gun show has, (and usually cheaper) that dont mind my gun. I'll go there instead.

xsquidgator
April 15, 2008, 06:29 AM
In Orlando you can bring in guns (of course) but the action has to be open and a zip-tie run through it to be ok, state troopers will inspect and do it for you at the door. They ask if you have any ammo for that gun and you're not supposed to, but there is an out... you can just buy ammo for the gun at the show, which is allowed. That way there is at least one or more legal ways to have ammo and to be able to load up CCW once you leave the show. The vendors all open carry inside but a closer look shows their open-carrys are all zip tied too. I would be shocked if any of them did NOT have a loaded mag or speed loader handy in a pocket, in some legally explainable way even if strictly speaking it's against the rules. This rule affects me because if I want to buy extra cheap mags for one of my pieces, I always bring it with me and like to verify the cheap mag will at least feed a snap cap before buying. The magazine sellers have been pretty cool about it, not minding if I cut off the zip tie for this purpose and helping me re-ziptie the gun afterwards.

I was told about a year ago that there was at least one armed robbery in the parking lot of the show here in Orlando a year or so ago. Fella' got robbed and pistol whipped in the parking lot, a bunch of his (unloaded) firearms were stolen and he was somewhat hurt also. On the occasions I do go to the shows around here, coming and going through the parking lot is definitely condition orange time.

Clipper
April 15, 2008, 06:38 AM
It's the law in MI if the show is in a sports or entertainment facility with seating of 2500 or more.

distra
April 15, 2008, 06:47 AM
All it take is for one damn fool to pull his boomstick out of his holster, to either see if another boomstick fits, or to see if the boomstick fits a different holster, or just to show the darn thing off, and simultaneously getting stupid with a boogerhook, and then you have a loud noise, followed by a profound silence.


One of the more popular gun stores in central CT has a sign on the door that reads something to the effect "You WILL NOT unholster your firearm!" My guess is one of "those" individuals did something real stupid while in the store. :banghead:

cambeul41
April 15, 2008, 07:04 AM
Distra is right. Gun shop clerks tell me that loaded firearms are drawn by id ... (scratch that) "clientel" on a regular basis.

lite-box
April 15, 2008, 07:35 AM
They have this CYA policy because of insurance and idiots who feel they need to carry a loaded gun into a show concealed and proceed to cap a round off trying a holster or showing off their piece to a buddy or dealer.

haybaler
April 15, 2008, 09:54 AM
Every gun show I ever attended had cops standing at the front door making sure any firearm brought into the building was unloaded. Makes perfect sense to me. Thousands of firearms being fondled by thousands of people is a wreck waiting to happen unless EVERY firearm is unloaded. It's my opinion that a person must really be paranoid not to want to comply.

USMC 1975
April 15, 2008, 09:59 AM
I believe that many forget that insurance companies can mandate a great deal under their coverage for any public event.

It can range from no alcohol being served to firearms to a host of other requirements. I have seen some crazy demands by insurance companies.

I will rarely fault the people holding a public event for any outlandish requirements knowing full well that the insurance company providing liability coverage is probably the driver behind those requirements.

Chris

LiquidTension
April 15, 2008, 10:02 AM
If I bring a gun to sell, sure I let them zip tie the action. My carry gun just stays on my person. There's no reason for anybody else to know its there, and I'm not fool enough to pull it out for any reason except a life-threatening emergency.

Then again, the deputies at the show can't require me to go unarmed anyway.

Kurt S.
April 15, 2008, 01:16 PM
Every gun show I've been to here in Texas since CCW was legalized has been posted with a big 30.06 sign. For you non Texans, that's the official no-CCW sign that has some legal teeth behind it. 30.06 is the section in the Texas Code that governs no-CCW and signage thereof.

Still, I think it was last year I was downtown at a show where some nimrod had an ND with a Glock, shot his thumb off or something.

They let you carry a zip-tied gun into the shows, most times they even have the zip ties at the door.

romma
April 15, 2008, 01:52 PM
It is against the law in CT to carry concealed if the show posts... There are cops there and I would rather follow the laws there.

I unloaded at the one I went to and they zip locked my gun, no problems, they were really cool about it.

Note: That doesn't mean I wanted to unload, but they were not jerks either...

sacp81170a
April 15, 2008, 02:01 PM
I figured it's the insurance company for the facility saying "NO WAY we want thousands of guys test fitting holsters with loaded guns and so many people around", but who knows.

That's exactly why they do it. Ever since there was an ND last year at the Holiday Inn Convention Center here where they hold gunshows, the promoter has been required to have an LEO as armed security at the show. In Arkansas, if you're carrying and an LEO asks to see your permit and weapon, you must show it, at which point the promoter tells you his requirements(no ammo, weapons zip tied). It's also posted outside the show, so it's actually a triple whammy. And, yes, we all suffer because some idiot got stupid with a boomstick. Insurance companies suck, but it's real simple: comply or don't have the show. Rant and rave all you want, but take your pick: show or no show.

Werewolf
April 15, 2008, 05:27 PM
The gun show folks have the same right as any other business to ask whether or not you're carrying on the premises,Not in OK and not unless they're commissioned LEO's. Revealing that information to a non-LEO in OK is the same as open carry which is a big no-no. You'd be breaking the law by answering in the affirmative if you were by revealing your weapon. You'd be lying if you said no and were.

The best answer is one I learned in the military. I can neither confirm nor deny...

The 2nd amendment bigots running the gun show can take it from there.

sacp81170a
April 15, 2008, 08:05 PM
The 2nd amendment bigots running the gun show can take it from there.

That would generally be the insurance company covering the show. The guys who run the shows around here are great people, strong 2A supporters, but they just can't afford to run one without liability insurance that covers people tripping and getting hurt as well as ND's. Try running a show without liability insurance sometime and tell us how it works out.

fearless leader
April 15, 2008, 09:22 PM
I have never been to a gunshow that allowed loaded firearms in the hands of the public.

That being said, there was a show, I believe it was in Harrisonburg, VA, when a bulb overhead popped and you've never seen so many shirts pull up and jackets fly open! All of the people that weren't carrying were pulling out guns out of the woodwork for an instant!

Huddog
April 15, 2008, 09:29 PM
In GA a gunshow is considered a public gathering. To carry concealed at one is a violation of OCGA 16-11-127 and will subject one to arrest and prosecution.

Werewolf
April 15, 2008, 09:44 PM
Try running a show without liability insurance sometime and tell us how it works out.There are 4 or 5 different gun shows that hit Oklahoma City. There's usually one here every 6 weeks or so. Only one posts a no concealed weapons sign. If 4 of 5 gunshows don't post the entrance then I find it very difficult to believe that it is an issue of insurance.

I make it a point to go to the show that does post the entrance. I almost buy a ticket and then remember the sign at the entrance. I don't pay and tell 'em I just plain won't do business with 2nd amendment bigots and then leave. Not highroad but then I've never claimed to be a highroad kind'a guy. Gunnies ought to be ashamed posting the entrance to their show. They're not doin' the cause any good. If they're in it just for the bucks - more power to 'em. I support capitalism 100% - but they aren't gonna get one red cent from me.

The first time I went to that particular show (it was a year or so ago) I had my grand daughter (6yrs) along who enjoys going to gun shows with me. She asked me why we weren't going in. I explained to her right there in front of the 3 folks running the gate that the operators of that show just wanted our money and really didn't care about gun owners or their right to own guns (she pretty much understands RKBA - sharp for a 6yr old - even knows the 4 rules though she still has trouble getting them in order). The lady selling tickets turned all red and the two guys just turned around and walked away.

I took my grand daughter to the OKC Zoo that day. She allowed that that was just as good.

sacp81170a
April 15, 2008, 09:53 PM
If 4 of 5 gunshows don't post the entrance then I find it very difficult to believe that it is an issue of insurance.

Don't know about the ones in OKC, but the venue here requires liability insurance, the insuror requires the signs and LEO security. I may not be right about the situation in OKC, but you certainly aren't right that every gun show promoter who posts a sign is a 2nd amendment bigot. Live and learn. Maybe painting with a broad brush is not so good?

Question: If they're 2nd Amendment bigots, why would they be having the show in the first place? If you don't like their attitude, take your business elsewhere. It is a free country after all. ;)

Car Knocker
April 15, 2008, 10:03 PM
I carry everywhere it is legal to, including gun shows.

Valkman
April 15, 2008, 10:08 PM
In Vegas it's not legal as it's posted but the one time I forgot to leave it in the car (was dropped off) there was no way I was going to unholster and unload it for the cop at the door. I just carried on in and didn't wprry about it and all was fine.

gym
April 15, 2008, 11:28 PM
My adcice is bring your own nylon ties, because these bozos they put at the door, will put the tie in such a way that if you don't have a cutting pliers in your car, your gun could get scratched trying to cut it off, if you brought one to sell. Plus they don't know how to operate the new auto's and may break somthing like a mag release or a saftey, I have seen this happen.

jpsimms
April 16, 2008, 12:08 AM
I carry a loaded gun openly at gun shows here, (oregon) as it is legal, but depending on which show it is they may ask you to unload and provide you with a ziptie. I had this happen, and the guys were pretty cool about it, except that they did not catch it at the door. there was no sign, just a guy "checking" who did not notice my 1911 in a tactical leg holster, but a vendor noticed and said I should zip tie it before they noticed. I did, no worries, but I left the ammo in the clips.

Jim March
April 16, 2008, 01:47 AM
Welll....I can think of one good reason for this.

A few people go to the gun show to shop for new holsters for their CCW piece, and end up checking the fit right there.

If said piece is loaded, and the holster isn't a familiar type, the odds of an AD/ND go up.

bogie
April 16, 2008, 03:00 AM
Guys, Knob Creek one of the most tightly regulated gun shows in the country.

And I've felt safer in very few other places.

People also do stupid things. It takes a few seconds, if you are really kinda slow-bus, to load your boomstick. It takes a millisecond to screw up -with- it loaded.

I've also witnessed an accidental discharge at a gun show. There are now NO gun shows in the largest venue in the St. Louis area.

jrfoxx
April 16, 2008, 03:12 AM
People also do stupid things. It takes a few seconds, if you are really kinda slow-bus, to load your boomstick. It takes a millisecond to screw up -with- it loaded.

I agree 100%. However, the statement is eqully true of ANYWHERE you carry a loaded gun, not just at a gun show. Do you carry your gun unloaded everywhere else, too? if not, why not? It takes a few seconds, if you are really kinda slow-bus, to load your boomstick so why not be just as extra safe everywhere else too, and always carry unloaded, and/or with it zip-tied?

why am I more safe, and in less need of a loaded gun at a gunshow, than say, my mailbox, or a crowded walmart at noon, or as the owner of a gun store, etc? I've never seen armed security or police at a gun show, personally, just like I havent at Wal-mart either, yet I havent heard anyone advocating its bad to carry a loaded, concealed gun in Walmart. Gun stores have been robbed, in broad daylight, with visibly armed workers and others inside, so why can't it happen at a gun show, especially, if the BG knows all the guns are unloaded and/or zip-tied?

Just food for thought....

Picknlittle
April 16, 2008, 08:29 AM
I figure I can play by their rules or choose to go home and pocket the $7 to $10.
I don't think it's wise to violate the protocol to make a point.

I think it's probably wise to unload at shows simply because there are all levels of gun experienced folks there. Some automatically check and verify (even known empty weapons), some don't have a clue.

It would take a complete moron to pull a gun and cause trouble at a gun show because there are many guns that can be loaded and charged in the time it would take to draw one. That'd be really stupid on many levels.

Hokkmike
April 16, 2008, 08:59 AM
Just went to a show in Virginia. The signs said absolutely no loaded firearms are permitted in the building. I assumed they were talking about the stuff at the show.

The sign as my Gander mt. says all firearms must be checked at customer service upon entering the store open in an unloaded condition, but that this did NOT apply to concealed carry weapons.

I have a friend who was an FBI agent who, upon entering my house, always placed his handgun on top of my fridge. When he left, he reholstered. I never asked him to do it, made any comments, or really paid much attention to it.

Treo
April 16, 2008, 09:45 AM
My concern isn't so much getting in but once in , if I am found W/ a gun that I just told them I don't have, how do I prove that the gun is really mine?

The show here in the Springs does have armed security & signs but no metal detectors.

Bottom line I think carrying in a gunshow causes more problems than it solves.

X-Rap
April 16, 2008, 10:38 AM
I'm betting that if 100 posted here saying that they feel their carry weapon doesn't apply, a fair amount would pull during the show for any of a number of reasons and take that times all the shows in the country and you will have plenty of ND's. This doesn't indict us all but but the few guilty will make us all suffer.
I agree that if the gun will actually never leave a holster or pocket there is no danger but we can't be certain of this and in a gun environment all accidents will be spotlighted.

Nightwing
April 16, 2008, 10:52 AM
I totally disagree with gun free zones. 100%!!!! But this is different. The dealers are usually armed, so if anything breaks out someone is very very close. Also, there are cops RIGHT THERE. you don't even have to call and wait for them to show up.. .they're all over the building.
I would still probably carry with my CCW, but I wouldn't worry too much in there. I still would rather defend myself than someone else, but the chances of anything happening at a gun show are slim to none, and there are TONS of armed folks withing arms reach of you at all time.
I dunno. Not a big deal. I don't like the putting it in the glove box idea either. You don't think there are criminals that scope out gun show parking lots? Same as the guys that rob trucks in home depot's parking lot in broad daylight.

TexasRifleman
April 16, 2008, 10:57 AM
The gun show folks have the same right as any other business to ask whether or not you're carrying on the premises, to expect an answer, and to expel you if so (or, should they choose, if you don't have a loaded gun, for that matter). I would expect that they zip-tie any unloaded firearms you bring in as well.

Actually in a lot of states they don't.

If they don't want you to carry concealed they can post signs, or they can verbally state that concealed carry is not allowed, but you are generally under NO obligation to reveal that you are carrying concealed unless you're dealing with law enforcement, and in some states not even then.

Even if there is a metal detector you don't have to reveal you are carrying. At that point they can verbally deny you entry and you must leave but you still don't have any duty to reveal you are carrying concealed.

I carry concealed to gun shows and when asked if I have any guns I say "No" if I'm not bringing anything to try to trade.

Bottom line I think carrying in a gunshow causes more problems than it solves.


Again and again : Concealed means concealed.

Sniper X
April 16, 2008, 11:03 AM
I walk in with it unloaded but with an extra couple loaded mags in the back pocket out of sight. They never ask me iof I have any ammo so there is technically no violation since they zip tie the action when I walk in. After being in the place a few seconds I break out the leatherman and break the zip tie loose and leave it in the weapon so if I need it in a hurry all I have to do is pull the zippy tie out, load a mag and I'm ready to go. I'm so inot training I train at this drill at the range! :what:

Sniper X
April 16, 2008, 11:05 AM
Texasrifleman is right about the fact that in some states you don't even have to tell the cops you are CCW. Here in New Mexico it is a state of non disclosure as well.

Conqueror
April 16, 2008, 11:39 AM
In NC it's illegal to carry anywhere admission is charged. That makes gun shows a no-carry zone.

Personally, even if my CCW is zip-tied, I'm not too concerned about a mass shooting happening at a gun show. There are thousands of guns and tens of thousands of rounds of ammo nearby. The perp wouldn't last too long.

Flopsy
April 16, 2008, 12:09 PM
The big one around here says they have to do that for insurance purposes.

When they ask me, the answer is always "no I don't have any firearms." I mean seriously, this is a gun show, not a church bake sale.

Eyesac
April 16, 2008, 12:13 PM
I don't tell. Don't have to.

jh9x18ky
April 16, 2008, 12:26 PM
Something to think about when asked if you have a loaded gun at a gunshow... Most ccw holders are decent people with experience carrying and handling firearms. But all it takes at a gunshow is one armchair cowboy who has watched too many movies packing a shiny, new, loaded 1911 with the hammer back and the safety off.... he grabs it out of the holster to show it off and boom... ND.... even if no one gets hurt,end of the gunshows forever.... Imagine the fuel that would give the antis.

bogie
April 16, 2008, 12:45 PM
Some of you theoreticians may be a little too tightly wrapped...

I've NEVER heard of a "mass shooting" at a gun show.

I -have- witnessed unintentional discharges...

Consider this... 50% of the population is on the downslope of the bell curve. When Bubba shows up at the gun show with his bambiblaster, I want the guy at the door to make Darn Sure that it's unloaded. Because Bubba's fired a grand total of 30 rounds out of the thing in the past three years, and doesn't really know how it works.

If you wanna carry your Glock .40, and you're professional enough to do so, fine. But it better stay in your damn holster, because we all know what happened to the LAST fellow who proclaimed that he was professional enough to do that...

Werewolf
April 16, 2008, 12:47 PM
Question: If they're 2nd Amendment bigots, why would they be having the show in the first place?If they believed in the 2A they wouldn't post their show as a no carry zone. That makes them 2A bigots and promoting the show just for the money. One can sell stuff one doesn't believe in as a capitalist. If you don't like their attitude, take your business elsewhere. It is a free country after all.That is exactly what I do as I explained in a previous post.

bogie
April 16, 2008, 12:50 PM
Oh yeah...

All you guys who say "It won't happen to me, because I'm too safe."

That's what EVERYONE who has an unintentional discharge says, right up until they have a funny ringing noise in their ears, and they frantically look around at the folks around them to see if anyone has any extra orifices.

I -know- I'm going to eventually let one loose. That's why I'm a bit paranoid about safety. Which means I'll probably not do that. But I always assume that the possibility is there...

sacp81170a
April 16, 2008, 01:08 PM
If they believed in the 2A they wouldn't post their show as a no carry zone. That makes them 2A bigots and promoting the show just for the money. One can sell stuff one doesn't believe in as a capitalist.

I work security at the show here in Springdale. We average 4-5 people every day who bring in "unloaded" guns that are loaded. One young guy came in with a couple of friends and 5 long arms that they were helping him carry. He handed me the first one, a nice Remington 700 in .243. I pointed the muzzle in a safe direction just as his friend asked him "Is it loaded?"

"Of course not, it's been in my safe since deer season last year," was his reply. I pulled the bolt to the rear and out popped a nice ballistic tipped .243 round. The guy's mouth dropped open and he mumbled something about checking the other guns. I told him to stop and let me check them so we wouldn't get ahead of ourselves and do something unsafe.

I've got nearly a shoebox full of odds and ends ammunition, all from "unloaded" guns being carried into a gun show. I'm usually pretty nice about it unless they've been sweeping other folks with muzzles and generally being unsafe. You can call 'em 2nd amendment bigots all you want, I call 'em safety conscious.

Judging from the experiences I've had on the other side of the table from you, all of us need to help each other out. BTW, when I go in to look around at the show, I leave my loaded weapon and ammo with the person who's relieving me at the door. None of us has special status when it comes to safety.

jh9x18ky
April 16, 2008, 01:17 PM
Speaking of ND's , as of today, I have had zero.... but it is VERY easy to do. Point in case.... at a gunshow, friend asked me to take his S&w 41 in, he was trying to sell it and carrying another long gun to sell also. The guy at the door checks it, but no tie.... I am carrying it around, looking, someone asks to see it.... takes it and the first thing they do is pull the trigger and snap... Where the guy at the door checked it, it was cocked.... It was empty, checked at the door, but why would anyone grab the trigger and pull without checking to see if it was loaded first ?? Thats how easy it can happen.

DrewH
April 16, 2008, 03:59 PM
I agree 100%. However, the statement is eqully true of ANYWHERE you carry a loaded gun, not just at a gun show. Do you carry your gun unloaded everywhere else, too? if not, why not?

Pretty much only in a gun show are people routinely handling guns. The only ND I have ever heard about in a public place in my area was at a gun show.

The handling and manipulation of guns at a gun show is what makes it different from other places I carry.

All the shows I have ever been to in VA require guns be unloaded. You can sneak it in loaded, I did once by accident, but if you do please don't pull it out to show people or try out holsters.

buck00
April 16, 2008, 04:08 PM
They have the right to ask, and I have the right to leave, lie, or tell the truth,

Bingo. You can absolutely CCW at a gun show- you aren't breaking any laws. If discovered, you would be asked to leave (just like a restaurant asking a person to leave who takes his shoes off, etc). Actually, some really bad things can happen if you do otherwise- the cop could discharge it accidently (which has happened) or it could be stolen from your car. Why not just keep it on you, remain quiet about it, and enjoy your browsing?

I think far too many of you guys see the cop at the entrance, get nervous, and go into a 5th grader-who-was-caught-cheating mode... and think you have to volunteer that you are carrying, etc. :uhoh:

If anyone can give me examples where patrons were patted down at a gun show prior to entering, go for it.

Werewolf
April 16, 2008, 04:22 PM
I've got nearly a shoebox full of odds and ends ammunition, all from "unloaded" guns being carried into a gun show. OK...

I think we may be talking about two different things.

I object to gunshows posting out those folks with CCW's. I don't have any problem at all with the show checking the rubes carrying in a rifle, two shotguns and granpa's 150 year old 1st edition ever .22LR single shot, all slung over one shoulder to make sure they're unloaded. Two different issues.

CCW'ers are not a safety risk. The folks I've described above in some cases are.

jrfoxx
April 16, 2008, 05:31 PM
Pretty much only in a gun show are people routinely handling guns. The only ND I have ever heard about in a public place in my area was at a gun show.

The handling and manipulation of guns at a gun show is what makes it different from other places I carry.

Well, I've read many articles posted right here on THR of ND's in store bathrooms, courthouse bathrooms... just within the last week a guy in a restaurant ND'd into his buddies leg (story was also post on THR),then there's the famous video of the DEA agent that ND'd into his thigh in a classroom, etc. I'd say thats pretty good evidence that it doesn't just happen in gun shows, nor is it necessarily more LIKELY to happen in a gun show, as I have read more articles posted here about ND's happening OUTSIDE of gun shows than inside, so again I ask, why don't people be "extra safe" like they are advocating at a gun show, and make sure their carry gun is unloaded and zip tied in classrooms, restaurants, bathrooms, etc? Because remember, It takes a few seconds, if you are really kinda slow-bus, to load your boomstick , so why only be "extra safe" at a gun show, when evidence proves its just as likely to happen anywhere, and just as easily and often? Is it only right to be "extra safe" at a gun show,but not anywhere else? An ND in ANY crowded, or even moderately crowded,location has a pretty good chance of the round hitting someone. Whats so special about a gun show compared to Walmart, Cabelas (they sell holsters just like gun shows), Sportsman's Warehouse (holsters again), a bathroom where one likely has to handle their ccw when doing business that requires dropping your pants (at least one of these incidents involved a cop no less, but non-leo's have done the same thing), etc

I just don't see what the difference is in ANY location where someone who is an idiot can ND. Just don't see why I should be disarmed because of what someone else MAY do. Thats the same excuse anti's use against us wanting carry in collages, schools,the workplace or anywhere for that matter.They Say that because someone COULD go on a killing spree, of ave an ND, or miss thier target and hit an Innocent, that NO ONE except cops should be allowed to have guns, let alone carry them in public. And we all scream bloody murder about how we should not be punished because of what someone else MAY do. Sounds like the same arguments to me.

But, If you don't feel safe carrying at a gun show or just don't want to, then feel free, doesn't bother me at all. I just don't understand the reasoning behind it, but maybe its me, and thats OK too.

By the way, I understand the whole insurance liability thing, it's the same reason LOTS of places dont want people to carry.Liaility. I'm addressing those who say carrying in a gun show is more dangerous, or more likely to result in an ND than anyplace else, and who say you can quickly load an unloaded gun, and/or get a zip tie off, but who wouldnt THINK about carrying that way everyplace else they go, and would likely mock those who suggested or advocated doing just that.

I have been to MANY gun shows, in 4 states, and have personally NEVER seen armed security or LEO's, so if eveyone followed the rules and/or suggestions of posters here, all we have are unloaded, zip-tied guns to try to stop an attack.Again, people rob gun stores in broad daylight, with ARMED customers and employes,inside, and they rob and kill in churches, and schools with armed resource officers and/or campus police, etc, so you'll be hard pressed to convince me that it cant happen at a gunshow. As MANY of us say ALL the time on THR, it CAN happen anytime, anyplace. Be prepared. You cant count on someone else to protect you. ;)

blackcash88
April 16, 2008, 05:40 PM
For all the people saying just to keep it concealed and carry anyway, could you get in trouble for lying to a police officer if you're caught later? A lot of the gun shows I've been to have an actual uniformed officer at the front asking people.

Rustynuts
April 16, 2008, 06:17 PM
It's not the carrying in the gunshow that matters to me, it's the carrying to and from where I want it. The Orlando story is true, some guy had a whole trailer full of guns jacked in broad daylight. The shows here won't even let you unload, all ammo has to be in your car! Screw that!

If it's not illegal, I say carry anyway.

Them - "are you carrying? All weapons need to be secured and unloaded"

Me - "No" and walk right in fully loaded. Easy!

Just don't start looking at holsters while you're there. The Orlando show ALWAYS has uniformed troopers/sheriffs at each door.

scottfrmga
April 16, 2008, 06:30 PM
its a easy fix, don't go where your not welcome

sacp81170a
April 16, 2008, 06:31 PM
CCW'ers are not a safety risk.

Oh really? The guy I was just describing was also CCW'ing. I'm a safety risk, you're a safety risk, we're all safety risks at one point or another. Anyone who believes otherwise is an accident waiting to happen...

Conqueror
April 16, 2008, 06:34 PM
I'd say thats pretty good evidence that it doesn't just happen in gun shows, nor is it necessarily more LIKELY to happen in a gun show, as I have read more articles posted here about ND's happening OUTSIDE of gun shows than inside

lol, did you pause to think that might be BECAUSE they disarm and unload everyone at the door? :)

sacp81170a
April 16, 2008, 06:40 PM
Conqueror beat me to it...

so why only be "extra safe" at a gun show, when evidence proves its just as likely to happen anywhere

Because the purpose of the gun show is to look at and handle (with permission, of course) lots of pretty (and some not so pretty) guns. I touch more firearms at a gunshow that I haven't personally cleared in half an hour than I do in most months outside the gun show. No harm in being safe. If that's bigoted and insulting to you, then maybe you need to check your attitude.

The shows here won't even let you unload, all ammo has to be in your car! Screw that!

I agree that that is a problem. I'm trying to get the promoter here to provide a portable clearing barrel for just that purpose. I have no problem holding someone's ammo for them while they're inside and have done so on several occasions.

bogie
April 16, 2008, 06:48 PM
Tell you what... You probably already think you're paying too much to get in the door, right?

Guess how much their insurance would go up if they DIDN'T require folks to lock & tie?

All it takes is ONE screw up. And between environutter antis who might stuff a cartridge in a table gun, and Bubba who is into his second week of po-leece academy, and thinks he knows everything, I just want everyone to stay really, really discreet.

TexasRifleman
April 16, 2008, 06:58 PM
Oh really? The guy I was just describing was also CCW'ing. I'm a safety risk, you're a safety risk, we're all safety risks at one point or another. Anyone who believes otherwise is an accident waiting to happen...

He was CCW'ing a Remington 700?

Wow, I wanna see his holster......

JerryM
April 16, 2008, 07:34 PM
If one who is a CHL holder does not have the sense to keep his concealed gun concealed he should not have a license. If one wants to trade or check to see if something fits the CCW then go outside, unload and return.
Otherwise, leave the thing holstered and concealed.

If one cannot do that then take his license. If we cannot trust one another at a gun show, then I do not expect Wal-Mart or some restaurant where alcohol is served to trust us.

I would post a sign to the effect that CCW was allowed, but if that gun were removed from the holster you would have to leave, and would not be welcome at any gun show that I sponsored.

I find it strange that some who argue to unload at a gun show would argue that we are mature enough to be allowed to carry in bars.

Best,
Jerry

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
April 16, 2008, 07:45 PM
Although it IS quite irritating to be disarmed at gun shows, of all places, note the following:

1. I just usually ignore the no-guns rule - and no one knows the difference with this wonderful invention known as the "Smart Carry" rig. :)

2. I can see the "why" of it. For most people it would not be a problem. But somewhere around 1 out of 10 CCW'ing yahoos are going to at some point feel the need to, and feel justified in doing this: "Oh yeah, is that so? Well you oughtta see MY carry gun - here it is" - whips it out loaded to show someone - NOT GOOD situation. In any OTHER place, he would not have felt comfortable in so doing, and thus would not have created this dangerous situation (a loaded gun in his hand). If all concealed guns stayed CONCEALED, then obviously it would not be a problem.

3. As a practical matter, a gun show is going to be a very very low-crime area, so I'm not overly irritated, since I'd be extremely unlikely to NEED the gun in there.

4. Finally, I will say that you did the right thing - go and put in car or at least unload in car. Even if the cop/security tells you to do so, it is NOT a wise idea to start unloading right then and there at the entrance - it would (understandably) freak some people out. This is just not good to be making live shells fly out of a gun's chamber while holding the gun and LOTS of people around, even if the 4 rules are observed.

mgregg85
April 16, 2008, 07:52 PM
Hmm, I do recall carrying to midland's gun show last year, didn't see any NO CCW signs.

I did do some shopping for holsters but I didn't remove my pistol from the holster, nor will I ever do so in public unless I actually need to use the gun.

No reason to show so many people what you are carrying and where it is on your body.

shep854
April 16, 2008, 08:05 PM
There has been an unloading table at every gun show I have been to here in Alabama. I unload before going in, and let the deputy ziptie my pistol. They also ask that ammo be left at the table, and give a numbered slip of paper for ID. As soon as I exit the venue, I load and holster.

for me, playing by the show's rules is not a problem.

Daemon688
April 16, 2008, 09:04 PM
So, I'm going to a gun show, with $1000 or more in my wallet intending to make a purchase. I can't bring a loaded gun to the show. I'm not leaving my gun in my car so it comes with me. IF they ask if I have any loaded guns and they are not officers, I lie.

Now why lie? Because I'm not unloading my gun in a public place where there are hundreds of people walking around. Furthermore I'm not going to "reload' my gun when there are hundreds of people walking around. Where the hell are you supposed to safely load/unload your handgun in that kind of situation?

I've asked the event organizers in an e-mail about their procedure. They ignored my question and I ignored their policy. If you're willing to leave your gun in your car while you're at the show great. But it seems to me you're more of a mark than anything else.

sacp81170a
April 17, 2008, 05:50 AM
He was CCW'ing a Remington 700?

No, he was actually CCW'ing a Bersa .380. At least he knew that one was loaded. I cleared the action and kept his ammo and mag for him while he was in the show. No sweat, and he was being extra cautious after seeing the round pop out of his 700. Nothin' like a potential oopsie being caught to make you more conscious.

That aside, what I'd really like to see and what might help to relieve some of the angst I'm seeing on this thread is a portable clearing barrel or box with someone to clear or supervise the clearing of CCW weapons. That would show respect for CCW holders and at the same time enhance safety. When I'm clearing weapons to zip tie them, I feel uncomfortable because I don't have a safe direction (straight up in the air in an urban area is not a safe direction). As it is, the best I can do is try to make sure I don't sweep a line of folks going in to the show while I'm checking to see if grandpa's old deer rifle is loaded or not. If more of us would lobby the promoters for this, I think they would go for it.

X-Rap
April 17, 2008, 11:29 AM
Consider that the military is probably the only place you will find concentrations of weapons like a gunshow. They have around a half dozen different models to deal with and they regulate far harder than any gunshow that has literaly thousands of different makes and models.
Some have felt that they need to be on red while in the show, most that I have been to are elbow to elbow and collateral damage of even a justified shooting would be pretty much unavoidable in such crowds.
I'm not cop bashing but I personally don't want anyone poping a cap in a gunshow and would hope that LE's would refrain armed or not.
I have had a family member that was nearly hit while sitting at his table by a ND so it can and does happen and in a world of fools we sadly have to dumb things down to those fools level.
To those who can't keep ammo separated from the gun while in the show I am sorry but I would come to the door with weapon cleared and mag or speed loader in my pocket and not say a word. When I left I would probably load when I left the door or got to my car depending on what kind of neighborhood it was. I'd also think about using a revolver as my carry piece on gunshow day to simplify loading by not having to cycle the piece outside the door to the show.
To bad we can't stop stupid but we can work around it.

TexasRifleman
April 17, 2008, 11:34 AM
That aside, what I'd really like to see and what might help to relieve some of the angst I'm seeing on this thread is a portable clearing barrel or box with someone to clear or supervise the clearing of CCW weapons. That would show respect for CCW holders and at the same time enhance safety.

If you want to show respect for CCW then don't try to make us take out our concealed weapons in the first place.

You are never going to regulate stupid people, that's not going to happen. When you try you infringe on everyone else's rights.

If some moron pulls out his CCW in a gun show because he wants to try a holster or whatever then he needs to be arrested plain and simple.

Pulling your loaded CCW is brandishing, a crime, even in a gun show, and he needs handcuffs and a ride downtown.

There's no way I'd ever do business with a gun show that tried to disarm a legally carrying concealed weapon holder.

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