Wal-Mart toughens gun policies


April 14, 2008, 08:45 PM
EDIT: Oops, duplicate thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=355996) of one in Legal.

Wow. Announcing it at Bloomberg's Mayors Against Illegal Guns gathering, no less. Anyone up for some cheap Wal-Mart goods now?


Wal-Mart to log guns sold, then used in crimes
Largest seller of firearms will also videotape all transactions
The Associated Press
updated 3:43 p.m. PT, Mon., April. 14, 2008
WASHINGTON - Wal-Mart, the nation’s largest seller of firearms, announced Monday it will toughen rules for gun sales, from storing video of purchases to creating an internal log of which guns they sell that are later used in crimes.

J.P. Suarez, the chief compliance officer for Wal-Mart Stores Inc., appeared with outspoken gun control advocate Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York to announce the changes at a gathering of Bloomberg’s group Mayors Against Illegal Guns.

Changes to come at about 1,100 Wal-Mart stores selling guns include:

Creating a record and alert system to record when a gun sold at Wal-Mart is later used in a crime. If the purchaser of that gun later tries to buy another gun at Wal-Mart, the system would alert the sales clerk of the prior buy and could refuse to make the sale.
Retaining the recorded images of gun sales in case law enforcement wants to view them later as part of an investigation.
Expanding background checks of employees who handle guns and expanding inventory controls.
Suarez said the tougher standards will come with some additional cost to the company.

“The costs are, we think, part of what it takes to be responsible. Everything is not pain-free,” he said, adding that small sellers can implement many of the same rules. He did not say how long it would take to implement all the changes, but noted that software must still be created for an internal log of guns later used in crimes.

Suarez said his company may receive some pressure from gun rights groups, but added, “This is not a signal that we’re getting out of firearms.”

The National Rifle Association denounced the company’s move.

“I view it as a public relations stunt that stigmatizes law-abiding firearms purchasers exercising their freedom under the Constitution,” said NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre. He said that if politicians were serious about reducing gun crime they would worry less about legal sellers and buyers and get tougher criminal sentences for illegal gun dealers.

“I honestly think it’s a corporation trying to curry favor with politicians as opposed to doing anything meaningful about stopping crime,” said LaPierre.

Wal-Mart sells only rifles and shotguns in its U.S. stores, with the exception of Alaska sites, which also sell handguns.

Bloomberg urged other companies to join Wal-Mart in the initiative called the Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership.

“We didn’t pressure them, they’re doing it because they think it’s the responsible thing to do,” he said.

Wal-Mart, the world’s largest retailer, had previously tried to establish a store in New York City but failed.

The mayors’ gun summit also unveiled a new lobbying effort to close what they call the “gun show loophole,” which allows sales of firearms without background checks between private individuals at gun shows.

Bloomberg founded the group two years ago with Boston mayor Thomas Menino to reduce the flow of guns from store displays into the hands of criminals.

The group, largely funded by Bloomberg’s personal fortune, announced it was spending more than $100,000 on television ads, starting Wednesday, featuring all three of the current main presidential candidates voicing their opposition to the gun show loophole.

The ads will run in the home states of the three candidates — John McCain of Arizona, Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois. It also will air across Pennsylvania, which holds its primary next week, as well as Florida, Maryland and Massachusetts.

The mayors group is trying to gather support in Congress to:

End the gun show loophole.
Require gun dealers to perform criminal background checks on all gun-handling employees.
Close a so-called fire-sale loophole that allows gun dealers whose licenses have been revoked by the government to sell off their inventory without background checks.
Add those placed on the terrorist no-fly list to the list of people prohibited from purchasing a firearm.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24114145/

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April 14, 2008, 08:51 PM
So does this mean if I have a gun stolen and then used in a crime, Wal-Mart will not let me buy another one?
Also at the end. The part about the no-fly list. And exactly how many people have been placed on this list as their name is similar to a name in some database? Unbelievable...

April 14, 2008, 08:56 PM
The only thing Walmart is good for is the cheap bricks of .223. Never even thought to buy a gun there.

Plus you have to wait 20 minutes for the pissed off sales guy to come over and shoot you a dirty look while opening the ammo window.

No loss if you ask me..

So does this mean if I have a gun stolen and then used in a crime, Wal-Mart will not let me buy another one?

Good question, I would start by not buying one there at all.

April 14, 2008, 09:00 PM
Wal-Mart just lost a customer...They should change their name to China-Mart anyway.:mad:

April 14, 2008, 09:05 PM
At the Wal-Mart here it takes forever to get a gun anyway. I don't know many people who want to waste an hour of their day trying to get a gun. The marginally cheaper prices are definitely not worth the extra time. I can be in and out at the local gun shops in less than 10 minutes, and that's at the most.

Just one more reason not to buy guns at Wal-Mart...

April 14, 2008, 09:07 PM
Plus you have to wait 20 minutes for the pissed off sales guy to come over and shoot you a dirty look while opening the ammo window.

And here I thought that just happened in California.

April 14, 2008, 09:28 PM
i never have, and now never will buy a gun from wal-mart. when anti-gun people rule large companies, they are the ones that loose, not us. if they want to throw their profits away, no skin off my nose. about the only thing i have bought there anyway (as far as gun items) is cleaning supplies, and a scope or two for small rifles. i will gladly pay the additional money to a REAL sporting goods store for what i buy there. i don't know what they are thinking. first, how many criminals are going to go in there to buy a rifle or shotgun to commit a crime with. second, if they actually stop selling guns, do they think this is going to change the world? do they think that a criminal is not just going to go buy a gun elsewhere? idiots! all this is about, is some touchy feely anti-gun person wanting to make certain that there is no way that there ever could be any way "his company" had anything to do with bloodshed. whahh. i wonder if he still sucks his thumb at night. right after he snuggles up with his teddy bear, and drinks his warm milk.

April 14, 2008, 10:32 PM

April 14, 2008, 10:43 PM


April 14, 2008, 10:49 PM
sorry.....my bad, just saw the story, tried to search, but I guess I did it wrong....

April 14, 2008, 10:57 PM

The 10 points of the Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership are:
1. Videotaping the Point of Sale for All Firearms Transactions. Participating
retailers will videotape the point-of-sale of all firearms transactions and maintain videos for 6 months to deter illegal purchases and monitor employees.

2. Computerized Crime Gun Trace Log and Alert System. Mayors Against Illegal Guns will develop a computerized system that participating retailers will implementover time to log crime gun traces relating to the retailer. Once the program is in place, if a customer who has a prior trace at that retailer attempts to purchase afirearm, the sale will be electronically flagged. The retailer would have discretion to proceed with the sale or stop the sale.

3. Purchaser Declaration. For sales flagged by the trace alert system, participating retailers will ask purchasers to fill out a declaration indicating that they meet the legal requirement to purchase the firearm.

4. Deterring Fake IDs. Participating retailers will only accept valid federal- or stateissued picture IDs as primary identification. Retailers will utilize additional ID checking mechanisms.

5. Consistent Visible Signage Consistent Visible Signage. Participating retailers
will post signage created by the Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership to alert customers of their legal responsibilities at the point-of-sale.

6. Employee Background Checks Employee Background Checks. Participating
retailers will conduct criminal background checks for all employees selling or
handling firearms.

7. Employee Responsibility Training. Participating retailers will participate in an
employee responsibility training program focused on deterring illegal purchasers. The Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership will create an online training system based on Wal-Mart’s training program.

8. Inventory Checking. Participating retailers will conduct daily and quarterly audits. Guidelines will be based on Wal-Mart’s existing audit procedures.

9. No Sales Without Background Check Results. Participating retailers would
prohibit sales based on “default proceeds,” which are permitted by law when the background check has not returned a result within 3 days.

10. Securing Firearms. Participating retailers will maintain firearms kept in
customer accessible areas in locked cases or locked to racks. Participating retailers will phase in the provisions of Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership over time.

My personal favorite is number 3, its certain to stop criminals in their tracks.

Green Lantern
April 14, 2008, 11:01 PM
I say we "Zumbo" them to make them re-consider.

(Not that I've ever bought a gun there nor intend to, it's the principle of the thing...)

Do I hear a second?

April 14, 2008, 11:10 PM
I never bought a gun at Walmart, but up until today I bought my clay pigeons and shot shells there.

Black Knight
April 14, 2008, 11:21 PM
If I understand it correctly the agreement is invalid from the get go. I believe Wal-Mart would legally be denied access to that information so to get it they would have to do something illegal. No agreement or contract can force a person or company to violate law and therefore the agreement or contract is null and void. At least I hope I'm correct.

April 15, 2008, 12:07 AM
Wally World in my area has had some pretty good deals on bulk laundry soap, etc., but oh, well... They do not exist any longer as far as I'm concerned.
Wal-Mart, the world’s largest retailer, had previously tried to establish a store in New York City but failed.

This may very well be the reason for Wal-Mart turning into such ...er ...ah ...well, never mind. All they want is to build stores and if that means getting in bed with the scum, so be it. I will NEVER enter another one of their stores ...FOR ANY REASON!.

April 15, 2008, 12:19 AM
Like I didn't have enough reasons to boycott Wal-Mart already.

April 15, 2008, 12:26 AM
Wal-mart sucks for guns anyway. Let's review (this is in the gunshine state, sunny florida):
-they don't sell handguns
-the gun counter is often not staffed
-they only sell sporting long guns. The closest they have to a real gun is the occasional mini-14.
-their guns aren't cheap! I have a local FFL that will transfer any internet bought gun to me for 20 dollars
-their ammo selection is crappy unless you are shopping for shotgun shells for small game
-the winchester white box they sell is the most underloaded crud I have ever shot. It had less velocity and looser groups than wolf, which is no longer the worst performer of the bargain brands.

April 15, 2008, 12:49 AM
4, 5, 6, 7, 8, should all be done all the time anyways. 10 is reasonable for a storefront business,

1, 2, 3, and 9 are out of line,

1. That list of video tapes becomes a registration and a criminal shopping list if they want guns

2. the store is not a law enforcement agency, if they have a problem call the cops or ATF. If my gun is stolen, never used in a crime, then recovered it will be traced to see who it belongs to. That should not flag me and cause undo difficulty

3. we already do that on the 4473, this is just wasting trees.

9. Unacceptable, often when there is an issue and a delay, if it is approaching the limit of time, the feds don't bother sending through a last minute approval, they just let it expire to default to accept. Also, just because your name is johnson or smith doesn't mean you should be denied your access to firearms.

p.s. now that the mexican government can access the 4473, no way am I putting my SS on it, that info is simply going to be routed to someone making fake green cards

April 15, 2008, 03:12 AM
I think its time for some good photo shopped imagine of Wal-Mart and Bloomberg in bed together, bumper stickers. I'd definiatly be sporting one on both vehicles.

Robert Hairless
April 15, 2008, 04:57 AM
I say we "Zumbo" them to make them re-consider.

(Not that I've ever bought a gun there nor intend to, it's the principle of the thing...)

Do I hear a second?

Everyone who has never bought a gun from Wal-Mart and never intended to buy one from them should most definitely join together and never buy a gun from Wal-Mart. By joining together Wal-Mart's non-customers can show Wal-Mart what it has lost by joining together with Mayor Bloomberg instead of supporting the people who do not buy from it.

When they are joined by gun owners who also do not belong to the NRA and never intended to belong to the NRA, Wal-Mart and Mayor Bloomberg will recognize at last the might and determination of gun owners who will send them a thundering message that rolls through the very hills and deafens them with its mighty roar.

Let those gun owners make on with those gun owners who also send both major political parties an unmistakable message by not voting at all in the upcoming election, or by refusing to vote until there is a perfect candidate for everyone, or by voting for a candidate that has no chance of winning but we have principles. Then shall those who oppose gun ownership crumble in the dust and gun owners shall triumph.

April 15, 2008, 08:08 AM
Wal-Mart toughens gun policies (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080414/ap_on_go_ot/gun_sales)

Policy includes videotaping gun purchases. What do you guys think about this?

April 15, 2008, 08:14 AM
Good morning, Jack. Good find, but I think you got beat to the punch...


April 15, 2008, 08:20 AM
Argh. Oh, well; mods can delete this one, then. Now, time to go read...

April 15, 2008, 10:34 AM
Corporate greed wins out.

Watch for the news: "Mayor Bloomberg announces that Walmart gets approval for their store in NYC they were earlier denied.

April 15, 2008, 11:19 AM
I shop at Wal*Mart about once every five years or so. I did buy a Mossberg 500 there about 11 years ago. I wouldn't do that again.

Green Lantern
April 15, 2008, 05:49 PM
By joining together Wal-Mart's non-customers

"Snark" duly noted...;)

But I never said I was a COMPLETE "non-customer" of Wal-Mart. In fact, I just bought a bulk pack of 22s there yesterday morning (BEFORE I heard this), along with a big load of groceries.

-the gun counter is often not staffed

I think this is just a thing where it's bad business sense to pay someone to stand around. I always have a time getting someone back to get ammo for me at the one I shop(ed?) at. I suppose there ARE stores busy enough to keep someone there handy, but I guess most of the time they have other jobs given to them to do while waiting for a customer to show up...

Ala Dan
April 15, 2008, 07:10 PM
I avoid "The Great Wal Of China Mart" like the plague; and certainly
have NEVER, EVER bought a weapon from such a rotten environment. ;)

April 15, 2008, 07:18 PM
Wal-Mart is a sell out anyway. You can't buy anything there that isn't made in China. The bad part is they've got such a strong hold on the retail market that it's either buy there or do without. Just because there are no other places to shop.

April 15, 2008, 07:25 PM
About the only thing I might be interested in in the local Wal-Qaeda Super Duper Center is Federal bulk .22 ammo. I can't seem to find it anywhere else and I'm not shooting any more of that Remington bulk .22. Other than that, I try to support local business.

fearless leader
April 15, 2008, 09:47 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this violate some kind of law about collecting a central database of gun owners? I mean, BATF(and now E) only know that I'm buying a long gun from the call in, but what they propose is videotaping the whole process! I wonder WHO will be privy to those videos?

It would be handy if someone was to sell your stolen gun (one stolen from you) to see who sold it, but these are NEW.

I don't think Wally world has anything I need anymore.

When gun owners boycotted K-mart, we hurt them BAD. Go try to buy a computer from K-mart. Since Sears bought them, they might have a few, but they didn't last time I looked.

Ever since Rosey O'donnell made her comments about gun owners and K-mart defended her, I have not bought more than a can of fly spray from K-Mart.
I wonder what would happen to the worlds largest corporation if all of the gun owners boycotted them for a couple of years? Maybe Bloomberg can bail them out?

April 15, 2008, 09:55 PM
Grrr can't I shop anywhere without someone being angry at me buying their guns!

April 16, 2008, 02:00 AM
so if you don't shop at walmart because you already don't like them, what do you do?

Wheel up $200 in groceries, let them be checked out, and then say "whoops, I got trace data!" and walk out leaving the goods behind for them to restock?

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