Out of State Purchase


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telecaster1981
April 15, 2008, 11:44 AM
Hey guys,

A long time friend of the family has an extensive gun collection for sale and we're thinking about buying them all from him. He is (or was) an FFL and says there's no paperwork or transfer work that needs to be done, but I'm paranoid and want to get another opinion or two. We live in Missouri and he's in Colorado...it would be a FTF transfer.

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NavyLCDR
April 15, 2008, 12:50 PM
WOW! Just WOW! It is completely, totally, and undeniable ILLEGAL for him to give, sell, transfer the guns to you without going through an FFL on your end.

NavyLCDR
April 15, 2008, 12:53 PM
Now that I've said that. The only way the FTF transfer can occur is if he brings the guns to an FFL in YOUR state. A private individual transferring firearms to a resident of another state MUST do so via an FFL in the RECEIVING PERSON's state of resident. AND for the most part, that is the only way an out of state FFL can transfer firearms to you as well. The firearms can either be carried to the FFL in person (assuming state laws allow transportation of firearms without a permit), or can be shipped to the FFL for transfer. You must make arrangements with your receiving FFL before the guns come to them so they know what to expect.

NavyLCDR
April 15, 2008, 12:56 PM
There is one exception. If these are long guns only, you might be able to receive them from him if he is a CURRENT FFL holder, the transfer takes place at his PLACE OF BUSINESS, is conducted IN PERSON, and the transfer complies with all laws of both HIS state and your STATE. I'll post the exact federal law in a second. However, there has to be paperwork, background checks, etc.

NavyLCDR
April 15, 2008, 01:04 PM
Here is a link to the applicable code:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

This is 18 USC (United States Code) section 922:
It is illegal for you to receive the guns without FFL transfer:
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

And it is illegal for him to transfer the firearms to you:
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

Here is the legal way for you to obtain the long guns from a licensed dealer in another state:
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

NavyLCDR
April 15, 2008, 01:05 PM
I hope I answered your question! And this guy was/is an FFL? :scrutiny:

telecaster1981
April 15, 2008, 04:12 PM
NavyLT,

Let me be clear about a couple things. This gentleman has been a long time friend of the family. Unfortunately, his health has been declining over the last several years and he wants us to have as many guns out of his collection as we want to buy (for ridiculously low prices). Turns out he hasn't had his FFL for a number of years and we think his mind might be slipping (very sad to see) as to what's correct and what's not. That's why I wanted to check it out. He's not trying to 'get away' with anything and neither are we...it's just that age is catching up to him.

NavyLCDR
April 15, 2008, 04:23 PM
I'm sorry if my tone implied that some attempt to skirt the law might be going on. I didn't mean that at all. Are we talking long guns here or handguns? I'm looking at the Missouri statutes now to check for legality of buying out of state long guns as a Missouri resident.

I am assuming you are planning to travel to CO to purchase the firearms?

NavyLCDR
April 15, 2008, 04:36 PM
I looked in both Missouri and Colorado statutes and I saw nothing that would preclude you from legally obtaining the long guns via an FFL located in either state, provided that the transfer took place in person with the FFL in Colorado, but I appear to have been in error regarding that the transfer had to occur at the FFL's place of business, the law only requires in person.

Any handguns would have to be transferred to you by an FFL in Missouri.

Good luck! I hope you can obtain these firearms! Sounds like there are probably some real beauties there.

telecaster1981
April 15, 2008, 04:46 PM
Thanks NavyLT,

No offense taken regarding what you said. I was just afraid that you were getting the wrong impression about this transaction. Now, we just have to figure out a way to delicately inform our friend that things aren't quite the way he recollects...kind of a touchy situation. I had a feeling the rules would be as you described but just wanted to make sure! Thanks for all the great information!

NavyLCDR
April 15, 2008, 04:50 PM
If you know an FFL who wants to take a Colorado vacation, you're golden!

telecaster1981
April 15, 2008, 04:59 PM
If you know an FFL who wants to take a Colorado vacation, you're golden!

We'll find someone I'm sure!

One more question, as I'm really bad at deciphering legal-ese.

Any handguns would have to be transferred to you by an FFL in Missouri.

Does that mean that he can ship the handguns to a local FFL in MO, or does there need to be an FFL on both ends should we decide to have them shipped?

NavyLCDR
April 16, 2008, 06:37 PM
Anyone can ship the handguns to the FFL in Missouri. If a private individual ships them, it has to go by UPS or FEDEX and their company policy requires next day air - very expensive.

If an FFL ships them to the Missouri FFL, they can go by regular US Postal Service and the shipping will be a lot cheaper, but then you've got the extra hassle of finding the shipping FFL.

Of course, you will make prior arrangements with the Missouri FFL so they know what is coming in the package and what to do with them! Some FFL's don't like receiving shipments from private individuals.

JerryM
April 16, 2008, 07:38 PM
There may have been a change, but the last time I shipped a long gun it could be shipped by USPS. Handguns cannot be sent through USPS except by a FFL.

Regards,
Jerry

Chipperman
April 16, 2008, 07:59 PM
One thing not mentioned above, is that C&R guns (both long and hand) could be transferred directly to you if you have a C&R license.

CountGlockula
April 16, 2008, 08:02 PM
Have him find a CO FFL dealer and transfer the weapons to your MO FFL dealer.

Done.

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