My letter to Wal-Mart


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Cougfan2
April 15, 2008, 05:49 PM
Just went to Wal-Mart's corp web site and sent the following msg via their contact us link.

"Dear Sirs, I recently saw a newspaper article that stated that Wal-Mart will now be keeping an internal permanent record of firearms transactions as well as photographing the purchasers. While you as a company have a right to enact that policy, I as a law abiding citzen am offended at being treated like a criminal and having my mug shot taken. I will no longer spend a dime at Wal-Mart and will encourage all of my friends in the firearms community to act in like turn."

Not that it will probably do any good, it just made my blood boil. :fire: Just to make it clear, I am not a Wal-Mart basher. I was really pretty ambivalent about them until this. Vent over!

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crux
April 15, 2008, 07:25 PM
I emailed my protest last night and have not heard a response. My money goes elsewhere!

smee781
April 15, 2008, 07:44 PM
When did this start? I guess I am comming in late to the conversation.:confused:

rollback88
April 15, 2008, 08:10 PM
Lot of smoke, no fire.

If anything, WM tightening its process and paperwork will help ensure that guns continue to be sold. This is in contrast to reports of sloppy record-keeping that caused guns to be pulled from some stores.

--jcd

George S.
April 15, 2008, 08:59 PM
It's bad enough that a gun buyer at Wally-World is already treated like a second-class citizen. Not only do you have to typically deal with a clerk that know nothing about a gun sale transaction, you have to wait for an assistant manager to show up to carry your new purchase out the door for you. And on top of that, the manager is caaled on the store PA system and that lets eveyone know you just bought a gun.

Many Wal-Marts already have security cameras throughout the store and I would expect that one would be trained on the counter and the gun display cases at all times. Having another picture taken (this time publicly) is simply an insult to a citizen wishing to buy a firearm.

Wal-Mart should not be the final approval or even the equal of the NICS check that is required anyway when buying a firearm at the store. Thinking that they can effectively weed out unauthorized purchases by simply having a picure and a name is foolishness on their part.

Hell, that's like requiring a weight and width limit on some of the heffalumps you have to fight to get by in the aisles.:D

I would not expect for anyone that writes and complains about this new policy to hear back from Corporate. They are too big for that and the decision has been made anyway.

As far as poor record keeping causing stores to stop selling guns, Wal-Mart came out some time ago and stated that removing gun sales from some stores was a purely economic decision. It costs a lot of money to have an inventory of rifles and shotguns kept in a store inventory. If the sale profits did not come close to the cost of the inventory, then W-M removed guns from that store's inventory.

Poor record keepng is a reflection of poor management and accountability of inventory. Had there been a real problem with firearms inventory, you can bet that the BATFE would have been snooping around some stores.

USMC 1975
April 16, 2008, 08:48 AM
I have never bought a gun at Wal Mart and never will. I have never bought ammo at Wal Mart and never will.

I refuse to buy guns and ammo from a company that shares the same bed with Michael Bloomberg.

I admit though, I do buy my groceries there because they are much cheaper then Publix or Winn Dixie. :)

Chris

Hokkmike
April 16, 2008, 08:52 AM
People should:

Buy guns from gun stores

Groceries from grocery stores

Cars from car dealers

And Chinese junk from Wal-Mart.

John4me05
April 16, 2008, 09:39 AM
Hell, that's like requiring a weight and width limit on some of the heffalumps you have to fight to get by in the aisles.


I resemble that remark :(



:D

moooose102
April 16, 2008, 09:56 AM
like i said in another post, i will not be buying anything gun related (cleaning supplies, scopes, etc) from wal-mart again. i never have bought a gun from them, and now, never will. it is their loss, not ours!

k-frame
April 16, 2008, 10:02 AM
Here's some of the text from a story on the videotaping:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/nyregion/15bloomberg.html?scp=1&sq=Mayors+and+Wal-Mart+Back+Gun+Sales+Plan&st=nyt
Mayors and Wal-Mart Back Gun Sales Plan
By JEREMY W. PETERS
Published: April 15, 2008

A coalition of mayors in favor of gun control, led by Michael R. Bloomberg of New York and Thomas M. Menino of Boston, said on Monday that it had reached a 10-point agreement with Wal-Mart, the country’s largest seller of guns, to track the sale of firearms more closely.

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg attending a meeting of the coalition Mayors Against Illegal Guns in Washington on Monday.

The agreement between Wal-Mart and the group, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, which Mr. Bloomberg helped to organize in 2006, calls for turning a more watchful eye on firearm sales, including videotaping sales of guns and conducting criminal background checks on store clerks who handle guns.

It also calls for keeping a record each time the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives links a gun bought at Wal-Mart to a crime. If a person who buys a gun linked to a crime were to return to a Wal-Mart to buy another gun, the purchase would be flagged. It would then be up to the store whether to permit the purchase.

When fully put into effect, the agreement would also prohibit the sale of a gun to someone whose background check comes back with inconclusive results. In many states, people are permitted to buy firearms even if a background check comes back with inconclusive results.

MarshallDodge
April 16, 2008, 10:25 AM
I have had no issues with Walmart up until this, and go shopping there regularly. Walmart is one of the few chain stores that carries guns and ammo anymore.

Target doesn't carry anything gun related and Kmart's selection is pretty poor yet I see posts on here all the time about how "Walmart in my area no longer carries this or that gun/ammo" and continues on with berating comments about them. :rolleyes:

coloradokevin
April 20, 2008, 04:31 AM
As a police officer who works in an area that has a Walmart, let me just add a couple of thoughts to this debate:

Walmart has a security system that is second-to-none in terms of large retailers. You are probably on camera there more than you already know, so this is hardly anything new.

Having handled my fair share of shoplifting complaints at Walmart, I've been amazed to see how much their "asset protection" folks can do with their cameras and such!

So, while this kind of thing is annoying on the surface... I imagine that they have been watching their gun counters for a long time anyway (for the record, I don't think that the Walmart in my area sells any guns)

Dksimon
April 20, 2008, 04:59 AM
I usually buy ammo at walmart but a couple of my friends just started working at the local gun shop so it looks like they will get my business from now on. I hate when they ask if your ammo is for pistol or rifle. i was buying .22 ammo and I made the mistake of saying both and since I'm not 21 they refused to sell to me. That was the last time I buy ammo there.

Regolith
April 20, 2008, 07:07 AM
i was buying .22 ammo and I made the mistake of saying both and since I'm not 21 they refused to sell to me. That was the last time I buy ammo there.

Heh, they didn't ask me that question last time I bought .22LR there; didn't even ask for ID....and I'm only 22.

I thing I'm going to be doing all of my ammo shopping at Bi-Mart from now on, though. It only costs a few bucks more. :uhoh:

GeezerwithGuns
April 20, 2008, 09:40 AM
I bought a 10/22 at Wally World last year.

The sale was a total goat rope from start to finish.

The sales clerk filled out paperwork wrong so I had a do-over. Then she made an announcement over the PA system calling for a manager to approve a "gun sale in sporting goods." The clerk was then admonished by the manager saying she didn't want to "alarm" their other customers. Say what? :confused: I simply said why didn't you announce that a a customer was "exercising his 2nd amendment rights" and needed a manager's assistance. They didn't think this was funny at all. In fact, they both agreed that they would be glad when Walmart finally got out of the gun business.

The final straw was taking the "walk of shame" when the manager carries your purchase (gun caddie?) to the parking lot and bids you a not too fond farewell.

That will be my one and only Walmart gun purchase.:fire:

The clerk was incompetent, the manager was a total butt wad and I was made to feel like a criminal.

Wally World can Pi$$ up a rope for all I care. :cuss:

wristtwister
April 20, 2008, 09:45 AM
When they ask me if the ammo is for a rifle or a pistol, I tell them "yes". When they say "which one?" I tell them "Noneya"... "Noneya business..."
If they persist, I tell them "I might be target shooting, I might be hunting, I might be shooting an intruder coming into my house... What do you think I'll be doing with the ammunition?" It's usually at that point that they call a manager, or I have to tell them to call a manager because they refuse to sell me the ammo.

I have a bigger problem finding anybody working in sporting goods to open the ammo cabinet than actually buying ammo from them.

Remember when K-Mart used to sell guns and ammo? They were busy and a vibrant company. Now, they sell a few boxes of rifle shells and shotgun shells and a little bit of cleaning materials... but you could practice shotgun shooting in the store without hitting anybody. These companies that take political stands on gun sales, etc. and allow the political environment to drive what their sales decisions are, head to bankruptcy in a straight line.

Pi$$ing off the customer$ i$n't the way to make money. $ending the customer$ to other $tore$ in$n't the way to make money either. A lot of us vote with our checkbooks, and having a national agenda against a political idea that's 100% in conflict with the constitution only puts the company on the wrong side of everybody and everything.

If it's a recordkeeping problem... train the managers to keep firearms records. If it's just a political agenda, have them contribute to political organizations that support or oppose what they want... but using the company to force problems on their customers is the surest way I know to go down in flames.

My wife worked part time in the cash office for WM for years, until she died with cancer. When she died, the company sent me a discount card which gives me an employee's discount (10%), so I actually save money buying ammo there. The store where she works never gives me any problems, but the superstores always have the clerks who can't think beyond the rules they're put under, so it's always a talk with the manager to solve a problem... but that's true in almost any business.

My tact would be to send the corporate offices an email asking them for their policies regarding firearms sales, and then engage the answering person in conversation regarding the issue. If you contact the store managers, they can put you in touch with people in the corporate structure... not just their corporate website... so a little digging will get you better results.

JMHO

WT

atblis
April 20, 2008, 09:58 AM
I wonder if Kmart might be able to help revitalize their stores somewhat if they expanded their gun section (make it better than Walmart).

Sell some decent cleaning supplies, reloading supplies, etc. Sell some higher quality guns. Heck, sell some surplus firearms. Do/Sell something that Walmart doesn't do.

JDar
April 20, 2008, 10:13 AM
Fortunately in Houston there are Academy stores, Bass Pro Shops, and Sports Authority with better prices than Wal*Mart and quite helpful with ammo choices. Wal*Mart is going down the path of kowtowing to the mayors' group and appeasing the pc folks. I'm sure they'd like to hear more people's opinions about their policy. Maybe they will tell us in a year exactly how many criminals they helped take off the streets.

From: cstreply@wal-mart.com
Subject: Response from Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. (Ref #000000019374934)
Date: April 19, 2008 2:50:27 PM CDT

Thank you for your message.

Dear Joe,

Wal-Mart understands its role as a leading, responsible retailer in the U.S. and is making strides to strengthen its already existing security processes to help combat illegal gun activity in the communities we serve. Wal-Mart has a long and proud history of offering the products hunters and outdoorsmen want and need and that will not change.

It is important to note that these procedures should not impede law-abiding citizens from purchasing firearms at our stores that sell them. These processes merely provide us, as a retailer, an additional mechanism to assist law enforcement when illegal activity occurs.

We are hopeful these enhanced processes  with help from law enforcement and other retailers committing to do the same  can make a positive difference in our communities.

Thank you,
Wal-Mart Customer Relations



For further correspondence regarding this issue, please reply to this email.


----Your Original Comments Were----

Comments: Wal*Mart is following the easy and politically correct expedient of allowing the anti-gun mayors' coalition to determine the way gun sales are handled. It's a very unwise decision on your part and very anti-privacy and anti-individual. Existing federal gun laws requiring the call to the FBI for approval are enough to make sure that individuals have no prior criminal record and are cleared to purchase a gun. You've added a layer which invades privacy of honest people and will do nothing to prevent criminals from buying or acquiring guns wherever they presently do. Existing federal gun laws are more than sufficient; fighting crime is where the effort is lacking. Government and now business blame innocent people and punish them while doing little in areas where the real problem lies.How can people ignore the facts that honest people purchasing guns represent one of the most safety conscious and least law-breaking groups of citizens. How can politicians and business people ignore the fact that "gun free" cities are the most dangerous. Look at the statistics available for the number of concealed handgun license holders involved in any crime--it is astoundingly low. The information for Texas, for example, is easily available online should you care to look.Your complicity with Mayor Bloomberg's group will result in fewer people using Wal*Mart not only in the hunting and outdoors department but also overall. I wish Sam Walton was still alive and running an innovative and growing American business. You are adding to an annoying and offensive and meaninglessly inefficient layer of bureaucracy.

-----------------------------------------
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JDar

FTA84
April 20, 2008, 11:20 PM
As said before in other posts on the subject.

It doesn't seem like they are really doing much besides appearing to do something.

This is good business. They are trying to walk the middle between those who like guns and those who don't and make some publicity in the process.

As for the embarrassment of buying guns. I hardly doubt it is limited to firearms purchases. I once heard a clerk ask a stockboy to get the customer a replacement box of hemmoroid creme across four (packed) registers. They then communicated loudly across the isles the details (brand, size, ect) of the purchase.

Walmart treats everyone like a criminal. Criminals make livings ripping off places like Walmart and the Home Depot. Ever get chased down by one of the rent a cops because your cell phone set off their alarm system? I think I'd rather have the modest and unnoticable walk out than red lights and techno sounds.

Sniper X
April 20, 2008, 11:34 PM
I have yet to buy a gun from Walmart, and now probably won't now.

Robert Hairless
April 20, 2008, 11:40 PM
Dear Wal-Mart Customer Relations:

Thank you for that explanation.

In the spirit of cooperation with your new policy I will be videotaping every Wal-Mart employee in the store when I am videotaped.

That way I will have a record of them in case any of your employees commits an illegal act in the future.

When every American videotapes every other American in case any of us commits an illegal future act we will have videotape records of Americans before they commit an illegal act in case they do commit one.

jimmyraythomason
April 20, 2008, 11:45 PM
There is only one gunshop in our little town. The only place to buy a new firearm other than WalMart. A couple of pawn shops sell used at slightly under new prices. The shop, "The O K Corral"cannot compete with WM's prices but does a brisk business anyway. He has a MUCH larger selection and even sells "evil black guns". I see these latest shenannigans by WM turning into gold for The O K Corral.

bender
April 20, 2008, 11:51 PM
I thought most stores walk you out the door....
It was done to me at Cabelas, and Academy.

Academy was really bad, because they fill out another form on me, with all my info, and all the gun info, as well as the normal 4473 ATF form. Its just for internal use they said. It was obviously just CYA on their part. Plus the guys behind the counter call a manager over to approve and sign the paperwork.
I complained about the extra paperwork (for a rifle) and they said "wait till you buy a handgun here...".
I won't buy at Academy again, and have never bought at W-M.

Maybe that was a store-only policy at that Academy, I'm not sure.

pat86323
April 20, 2008, 11:56 PM
speaking of the "pistol or rifle" question i had a pretty good one today proving that some of these people have no business selling guns or ammo. I went in and asked for a box of remington core-lokt 7 mm rem mag ammo. The clerk asked me if it was for use in a rifle or handgun. Now correct me if i am wrong but the only pistol that would even think about shooting 7 mag is a contender and there probably arent a whole lot of people around with the courage to even consider pulling the trikgger on one of those. I really would think that they would have at least known that this is a rifle caliber so as not to look stupid... Ill still buy ammo there but thats all.

archigos
April 21, 2008, 12:06 AM
In the past 22 years, I have made exactly one purchase at a Wal-Mart - and only because nobody else is open to sell rope at 3AM.
This thread describes yet another event that reassures me in my decision to permanently boycott that scar on the face of American society.

As a side note, I don't buy ammo from stores when they ask me the "pistol or rifle" question. I ask to speak to a manager, inform them they're losing business, show them my pistol permit, and leave to buy ammo from a proper gun shop.

lanternlad1
April 21, 2008, 12:17 AM
If you really want Wal-Mart to suffer for their actions, buy stock in the company, then complain about poor customer service in front of everyone at the yearly shareholders meeting. The Wall Street Journal and others will be there, reporting on every word said. If Wal-Mart's stock drops a nickel because of the bad reports, you've cost them MILLIONS. Only then will they sit up and take notice.

Seminole
April 23, 2008, 06:43 PM
When every American videotapes every other American in case any of us commits an illegal future act we will have videotape records of Americans before they commit an illegal act in case they do commit one.


BWAHAHAHAHAHA! I love it! :D

Dravur
April 24, 2008, 10:47 AM
how the wailing and gnashing of teeth at Wal-mart is primarily from people who do not shop there, would not shop there if they were on fire and Wal-mart sold fire extinguishers and will never shop there.

I like the guy who said he has never bought a gun or ammo there and now will not go there! Hmmmm, I guess Wal-Mart will have to close up shop.

Ooooh, they are going to videotape you... Big freaking whoop. The Assistant manager has to escort your gun out like its a live cobra.... Big Freaking whoop.
I don't buy guns at Wal-mart because they have nothing I want. If they did and it was a good price, then I live by their rules. At the end of the day, I have a new rifle.

I do buy ammo there and at the two stores I frequent, I have never had a problem, never been asked for ID, asked what gun it was for, or been hassled in any way. I have never been beaten with a rubber hose and the clerks, while not that knowledgeable about guns in general are able to respond to simple commands like "gimme a few boxes of that Federal 22 in the brown box". To be honest, that is all I need from them. I don't need a long discussion of the merits of the .300 Whisper round.

So, if you don't like Wal-Mart, great, shop with your feet. But, they are the ONLY major box store to even carry guns and ammo. I think thats pretty good considering all the antis that are constantly on them.

TEDDY
April 24, 2008, 07:38 PM
who owns sears/kmart it aint american.as to walmart why bash the clerks?
they are there for a bottom feeding layer.some of you dont know as much as you think you do.and if their young look what the schools teach them.
and as to chinese goods why are you buying sks ect.look at all the pistols rifles made out of this country.Remington/marlin/h&R is ownd by foreign co.colt is on the ropes.savage ??.:uhoh::rolleyes::D

Mousegun
April 24, 2008, 07:58 PM
I have purchased a lot of ammo at Wally - World here in East Tennessee and never been asked about the purchase.

I am ready just in case things change but so far so good. The clerks were men young and old and women (age unknown and not even attempted to find out) and never a problem. I guess they are used to ammo purchases and know better than to get something going.

jenrob
April 25, 2008, 02:07 AM
Never bought a firearm at wal-mart and probably never will.

But I took a trip to Oklahoma and took my brother and kids out shooting. By the time I got to my sisters place I was out of 357 and had to buy factory ammo (ouch).

Me and my wife went into wal-mart and as we got in line I told my wife watch the look on the gals face. She asked what it was for pistol or rifle, and I told her sub-machine gun. She look at me and said uh. I repeated my self and she wasn't sure what to do. So I told her it didn't matter cause by the time I was done shooting it would probably be shoot out of both.

RaspberrySurprise
April 26, 2008, 03:23 AM
Hey if you don't like wal-mart's policies then don't shop there, or ask to speak to a manager or bug corporate. But please do not give the cashier a hard time just because you feel like it. They don't have a choice in the matter since it's company policy and if they don't follow it they'll probably be fired. It's the kind of people who like to harass the peons of a company (any company private or corp) just because the peons can't do anything lest they lose their job, that make me want to keep a bat near my register some days.

P.S. I am a wal-mart peon who would much prefer you take your shenanigans to someone who can actually change things like a manager. Also remember a company is made of individual people not robots and sometimes these people make mistakes, we should focus on correcting these mistakes and not drawing generalizations.

sauger
April 26, 2008, 03:50 AM
What's funny is their policies seam to be different form store to store. Until someone close to me has a better deal on target ammo the Walmart WWB I will be shopping there.

Samuel Adams
April 26, 2008, 05:55 AM
From: cstreply@wal-mart.com
Subject: Response from Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. (Ref #000000019374934)
Date: April 19, 2008 2:50:27 PM CDT

Thank you for your message.

Dear Joe,

Wal-Mart understands its role as a leading, responsible retailer in the U.S. and is making strides to strengthen its already existing security processes to help combat illegal gun activity in the communities we serve. Wal-Mart has a long and proud history of offering the products hunters and outdoorsmen want and need and that will not change.

It is important to note that these procedures should not impede law-abiding citizens from purchasing firearms at our stores that sell them. These processes merely provide us, as a retailer, an additional mechanism to assist law enforcement when illegal activity occurs.

We are hopeful these enhanced processes  with help from law enforcement and other retailers committing to do the same  can make a positive difference in our communities.

Thank you,
Wal-Mart Customer Relations



For further correspondence regarding this issue, please reply to this email.
I got the same canned message - with the name changed, of course.

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