Honing a Perfect Message


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dubious
April 15, 2008, 07:14 PM
I was over reading an fun article on the Huffington Post about Hilary's supposed new found gun love. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/12/hillary-becomes-a-gun-lov_n_96396.html) That site has a very thriving posting community in the form of comments, mostly by Dems. Most of the gun related posts weren't too horrible but a few people were venemous. So I posted this:

"Guns prevent more violent deaths than they cause. Some stories don't make the evening news. The slient majority is all the women in dark alleys who didn't get raped because they dissuaded their attacker with a gun.
Tragically, about 30,000+ US citizens (CDC) are killed a year in gun deaths... but it isn't all grim news. Guns prevent at least 1.5 million potentially violent crimes a year (according to the Clinton Justice department). The vast majority of those guns were unfired.

Is gun control really worth jeopardizing all the other ammendments?"


I decided this was a good place to actually do something besides preach to the choir on THR (though I am an evil Dem). So I spent about an hour carefully crafting the "perfect" very short pro gun message. I decided to address what I see as the anti's main issue: irrational fear. What do you guys think?

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WayneConrad
April 15, 2008, 07:24 PM
Perfect up to the last sentence. Your body is utilitarian, so don't end with a constitutionalist coda. Stay utilitarian.

I love your concept of not preaching to the choir.

ArfinGreebly
April 16, 2008, 03:38 AM
Tragically, about 30,000+ US citizens (CDC) are killed a year in gun deaths

Let's begin here:
http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/glance/tables/frmdth.htm
and notice that, in addition to a ten-year downward trend in firearms-related deaths (despite increased ownership and more carry in more states), it can be seen that suicides account for, on average, more than 50% of the total, leaving us with homicides+accidental+undetermined below 50% and totalling less than 20,000 per year.

Further, calling homicides committed with a firearm "gun deaths" is inaccurate. The technical term is "murder." And there are as many murders committed without guns as with them.

In general, I would avoid the term "gun deaths," as it is a) inaccurate, b) a "loaded" term which demonizes an object, not an event, c) an (incorrect) concession that guns are somehow "a cause" of injuries and deaths.

As a rule I try not to let the folks who want to disarm us frame the debate in their terms and on their turf.

Yas
April 16, 2008, 12:13 PM
If Hillary's so pro gun, why wasn't her name on the amicus to SOCTUS supporting the Heller side of Dc vs Heller? Obama and Hillary both missed the boat on this, but McCain did sign. Totaling 55 US Senators and 250 member's of the US House of representatives in favor of Heller.

Heres a PDF of the amicus:
http://www.abanet.org/publiced/preview/briefs/pdfs/07-08/07-290_RespondentAmCuSenateHouseMembers.pdf

ronnyreagan
April 24, 2008, 11:06 PM
I love your concept of not preaching to the choir.

Agreed. I see too many posts here complaining about "the other side." I understand that some people need to vent, but complaining to the people who already agree with you isn't going to change anything. Maybe it's just because I'm an "evil Dem", but I don't see the point in endlessly bashing the other party. Just convince them that you're right and you won't have to argue any more!:)

Anyway, good job dubious.

Pat-inCO
April 25, 2008, 03:30 PM
The majority of your message is good. I also agree that the last statement (it's actually a question) might be better if it said something like: "How many of that 1.5 million would have been victims if we were to eliminate the legal guns?"

Dksimon
April 25, 2008, 03:32 PM
Looks like a great post

MIL-DOT
April 25, 2008, 08:39 PM
One of the best things about your post......brevity. Too many good points and good messages are lost on many readers, especially these days, because the writer over-does it with information. Get in,hit hard,get out. Nice job.

CaesarI
April 26, 2008, 09:57 PM
Just from my experience preaching to those who are not in the "choir".

The "guns save lives" argument is much harder harder for people oppositional to the RKBA to swallow. It is also difficult/impossible to prove, and by making the statement, *you* have to back it up. Proving things is easily 10 times as hard as disproving things. So...

The better argument is: "I agree, gun deaths, like all other deaths, are a tragedy, it's just that after examining the issue in detail I've found no convincing evidence that gun control laws save *any* lives." You can play with the words a bit to suit your manner of speak, and to suit your audience, the basic idea however is solid as a rock, unshakeable, and incredibly persuasive. To improve the persuasiveness, offer an alternative proven method of "saving lives" that your audience will find suitable and believable. The alternative can be gang intervention programs, or sending food to Africa, or whatever you want. I don't suggest touting concealed carry, that's too hard for them to swallow, at least initially.

The reason it works is that it puts *them* on the defensive. *They* are forced to prove that their laws do something other than waste people's time and energy. People value their time, energy and money. Convince them it's a scam and you win. People *hate* being scammed. You aren't asking them to cross a bridge too far. You aren't asking them to support the right of people to own what they view as dangerous objects of death, you aren't asking them to enjoy it, or support it as an unalienable right. You're merely saying that what they think will save lives, won't work, trying something else.

The reason it's rock solid is that it is. There has never been a published study (so far) that has shown gun control laws to have any effect whatever on the rate at which people die with firearms. Several well-funded groups of anti-gun biased researchers examined the issue, and left with changed mines. The two that come to mind most are Wright and Rossi "Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms " and the CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwR/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm

Good luck in your quest, it's noble and I've done it myself, just hoping to save you the same lessons I had to learn.

-Morgan

MIL-DOT
April 26, 2008, 10:24 PM
I'd have to say,Morgan...good point.....great tactic. I hadn't looked at it exactly that way before.

CaesarI
April 27, 2008, 11:11 AM
Thank you. I hope it works as well for you.

-Morgan

Rachen
April 27, 2008, 04:17 PM
I love your concept of not preaching to the choir.

Preaching to the choir is okay, if we are using it as a method of practicing our arguments and proofreading our articles, before we go out and broadcast them. It's good to have some feedback before actually publishing works.

Robert Hairless
April 27, 2008, 04:23 PM
Guns prevent more violent deaths than they cause. Some stories don't make the evening news. The slient majority is all the women in dark alleys who didn't get raped because they dissuaded their attacker with a gun.
Tragically, about 30,000+ US citizens (CDC) are killed a year in gun deaths... but it isn't all grim news. Guns prevent at least 1.5 million potentially violent crimes a year (according to the Clinton Justice department). The vast majority of those guns were unfired.

Is gun control really worth jeopardizing all the other ammendments?

At least some evil Democrats might be reasonably well educated.

Many of them might know that "amendments" is not spelled "ammendments."

Most of them probably know that one of their two leading contenders for the presidential nomination is named "Hillary," not "Hilary."

At least some of them might realize that the one-sentence concluding paragraph has nothing at all to do with what precedes it.

V-DOP
April 27, 2008, 09:46 PM
God. Reading readers replies to those articles on that site is like watching a trainwreck unfold in HD slow-motion.

BruceRDucer
April 30, 2008, 09:22 AM
"Guns prevent more violent deaths than they cause. Some stories don't make the evening news. The slient majority is all the women in dark alleys who didn't get raped because they dissuaded their attacker with a gun.
Tragically, about 30,000+ US citizens (CDC) are killed a year in gun deaths... but it isn't all grim news. Guns prevent at least 1.5 million potentially violent crimes a year (according to the Clinton Justice department). The vast majority of those guns were unfired.

Is gun control really worth jeopardizing all the other ammendments?"


---Dubious


Keep honing that message Dubious. We're all in this together. Without people like you, my rights are in danger, and because of you and people like you, they are secured. :)

/

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