Lnib?


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chiggerbyt
April 15, 2008, 08:27 PM
What does the term LNIB mean to you as it relates to a sale or trade in the classifieds here on The High Road?
If a person were to buy or trade for a firearm advertised in the following manner "Gun is like new in box, NEVER fired or even been outside."
Would/should the buyer expect to receive the factory box with the advertised firearm? chig

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Bazooka Joe71
April 15, 2008, 08:29 PM
Never fired would be "NIB"

More than likely it has even been taken out of the box...For pictures and such.

LNIB would mean a very, very low rd count(probably just test fired) and wouldn't have any scratches or wear.

possom813
April 15, 2008, 08:31 PM
Like New In Box, should arrive in unfired condition with all original packaging.

Still New, but has been opened and/or handled, but not fired.

Slightly used would be what Bazooka Joe described.

Just my opinion.

Zedicus
April 15, 2008, 08:41 PM
LNIB = Like New In Box
(New but opened box, Like with a ex display item, or one that was opened to show to a customer)
NIB = New In Box (Still Shrink wrapped/Sealed in it's box)

Jeff F
April 15, 2008, 09:05 PM
You will never find any recently manufactured firearm NIB (still shrink wrapped/sealed in its box) unless you are the dealer and it came from the factory. I was told all licensed FFL holders have to physically see the serial numbers on all firearms they receive and log them into their books. It may be new in box but somebody has opened the box and inspected the firearm.

Stevie-Ray
April 15, 2008, 09:33 PM
I agree with Bazooka Joe; to me, LNIB means very low round count, maybe enough to prove gun is reliable, but no wear. I wouldn't expect it to mean simply taken out and looked at and put back in. To me, that's still NIB. Sheesh, doesn't everybody check to make sure what's on the box is in the box?

CypherNinja
April 15, 2008, 09:37 PM
To me LNIB means it comes with everything a NIB firearm would. Box, manual, tools, etc.......

The only difference being the addition of a very low round count (<100, and thats pushing it) and very few, minor handling marks.

Both of which the seller should disclose in detail to justify "LNIB."

hksw
April 15, 2008, 09:37 PM
Of all of the guns I've ever bought as a buyer, I've never had one still in its uncut shink wrap. I did have one where the plastic wrap came with the box but it was cut to allow the box to slip through.

If a person were to buy or trade for a firearm advertised in the following manner "Gun is like new in box, NEVER fired or even been outside."
Would/should the buyer expect to receive the factory box with the advertised firearm? chig

Like New In Box
(You are expecting the condition of the gun correctly.)

Otherwise, it should have been advertised as just Like New or Like New No Box.

Ringer
April 15, 2008, 09:43 PM
Would/should the buyer expect to receive the factory box with the advertised firearm?
Yep, that's the "in box" part.

LNIB to me implies never fired. It can't really be like new if it has been fired. I can't recall doing a first cleaning on a new gun and not noticing some amount of wear. Not that that is a bad thing, but that moves it from LNIB to excellent condition.

NIB could only be sold by a dealer, as once it is sold it's no longer new, regardless of it's condition or if it's been fired or not.

bnkrazy
April 15, 2008, 09:44 PM
When I bought my 229ST the tape around the blue case handle was still intact. The dealer cut it and got the serial number off the gun for his records, so there are times when you can find one still sealed. Not very often though.

Oro
April 15, 2008, 09:56 PM
Yep, chigger, means just what you said. New means "New" - never sold retail. "NIB" can only come from a dealer. "In Box" is pretty self-evident - means in the original box!

"ANIB" means sold, but not fired, same condition as when sold. Same as "NIB" but in private hands and has been transferred to a non-FFL on a 4473 at some point at least once.

"LNIB" is a little fuzzier and I think people use it in stead of "ANIB." Since they are saying it's "like new" and not "near new" - it should be unfired, with the box, etc. If it has been fired but is very, very close to new, I would accept the phrase "Near-new in box."

If you are talking about paying a premium price for a collectible gun, and want it truly LNIB, I'd clarify that with the seller before buying - there's a big price gap between "LNIB" and a gun that has had even a cylinder full through it.

Here is a link to a very intelligent discussion of the various grading systems, and suggestions, from Jim Supica:

http://www.armchairgunshow.com/Condition-NRA-Guns.htm#modern

nj.piney
April 15, 2008, 10:05 PM
i just bought a star pd 45 from bunbroker . com . as new in box,unfired. it was as stated,the recoil buffer had never been compressed. with box and all accesories.

Bazooka Joe71
April 15, 2008, 10:19 PM
there's a big price gap between "LNIB" and a gun that has had even a cylinder full through it.

Hasn't every firearm, even the ones with shrink wrap intact had a "cylinder full" through it?(factory)

If you are talking about paying a premium price for a collectible gun, and want it truly LNIB, I'd clarify that with the seller before buying - there's a big price gap between "LNIB" and a gun that has had even a cylinder full through it.


I totally agree with this...If I am buying a safe queen, then I definitely want what I would call "NIB." But I won't complain about a "LNIB" advertised firearm that has been tested.

I'm not sure if these acronyms have set-in-stone definitions, but if LNIB means never fired, then there are A LOT of liars here on THR, TFL, and so on...But if I get a LNIB firearm and it has no scratches and very, very little metal to metal wear, then I'm fine...I'm going to wear the hell out of it my first range session anyway.:)

Edit: Actually, I shouldn't say liars, I should say misinformed, because their LNIB's have all been advertised as very low round count. ;)

Ala Dan
April 15, 2008, 10:33 PM
I think a lot of persons (including myself :D), use the term "LNIB"
rather loosely; when actually, it should be stated "As New In Box"~!
ANIB, should mean a very low round count, all paperwork, tools,
and with all accessories included in the transaction. ;) :D

From all the above post, I think our friend kamerer sumed it up
the best. I offer as examples, I have two pristine Smith & Wesson
revolvers. One is a model 19-3 from 1975, complete with original
box, spec sheet, ammo phamplet, blank warranty card, and even
the brown wax type paper; but its missing the "tool kit" [handle,
wool mop, and small screwdriver] that use to be included. At first,
it appeared in UNFIRED status; but after consulting with the guns
original purchase'er, I found that it had been actually fired 39 times
using mid-range .38 Special L-SWC target loads. In grading this
weapon, since it indeed has been fired; and it is indeed missing
the "tool kit", I could only say its condition is "As New In Box",
or "Excellent". While on the other hand, I have a S&W model 10-5,
also in factory nickel; but without anything, its just the gun. Its
in the same type of pristine condition that the S&W model 19-3
is in; but it would not warrant even the "As New In Box" label
because it has nothing with it. It came from the very same
gentleman that the 19-3 came from, and he was the original
owner; but he has no idea what happened to the box and docs.
Therefore, I see this weapon rating only as "Excellent"~!

oldgold
April 15, 2008, 11:06 PM
Bazooka Joe has a point.There is no such thing as an unfired gun.
I've never heard of a factory that doesn't test fire every new firearm before final cleaning and packing. I would guess most guns get a "Blue Pill' through them as well.

But then I've bought two new Colt .45's that wouldn't work with any ammo, so maybe Colt doesn't test fire their guns.

Does anyone know of a manufacturer that doesn't test fire their guns?

mnrivrat
April 15, 2008, 11:25 PM
Holy Crap !!

Maybe its just best to ask the seller what that means because it seems there is no standard for the term among posters here. LNIB has always been to me a slightly used firearm in its original box. If it hasn't been fired ,then isn't it New ? as in NIB .

I didn't think it was complicated until I started reading this thread ! :what:

Oro
April 16, 2008, 12:06 AM
The reason I said a "cylinder full" is that usually the factory test is one round from what I have heard. A magazine or a few cylinders full after that you can tell - especially on a revolver, which is mostly what I care about - the recoil starts to leave marks from other rounds on the blast/recoil shield if there are other loaded cartridges in the non-lined up cylinders.

mnrivrat, like most things - new only means "new" like a car - if it's on the dealers lot, it's new. If you transfer it to a person and they drive it off, it's used. Even if they drive it across the street and store it for 10 years, it's "used." This is pretty standard across hobbies/items, etc. - nut just guns. I'm also a motorcycle fan, and it works like that there, too. Sometimes bikes don't sell and I once bought a 1986 Honda Interceptor that was sold "new" in 1992 - first delivery from the dealer.

I sold a gun once on Gunbroker that was "almost as new" - 25 or so year old S&W 60 - original box, had had very, very few rounds through it (I think I shot it a total of 5 times in the years I owned it, previous owner had done about the same). I described it as "LNIB" meaning it was "Almost" as good as NIB/ANIB. I stated it had been fired so as not to mislead. So I guess "LNIB" could allow for some wiggle room of a few rounds at the range, no carry or other markings on it. I should have kept it as a collectible in the future, but I wanted the cash for something else - I found I didn't use it because it was so nice, and also I liked carrying a 2.5" .357 19 or 66 model more, so I ended up not carrying it like I intended.

If you follow that link above I posted from Jim Supica, his rationale makes a lot of sense about how to do grading/describing better - make a stab at a standard grading, like "Fine" or whatever and then get very specific. I try to do that - here's a link to an auction I had on GB that sold recently. I tried to describe all flaws so a buyer could now exactly what they are getting. I find this works great - don't hide anything - people will appreciate the full disclosure and bid with more confidence. Since this is a SS gun and not blue, the finish discussion is much simpler.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=95389395

It works well for me - I set a reserve at but NOT higher than the average I've seen for a few guns in similar condition sell. The auction might run a few times, but within a month or so I get a happy buyer and I get a good, but fair price. OK, so this drifted a bit from what does "LNIB" mean, but I hate auctions that don't disclose things well, and try to be on the opposite side of that when I can (not that often, I'm not a dealer or anything, I just dig 1911s and S&Ws and buy/sell one a month or two to play with to see which ones I love and want to keep).

jrfoxx
April 16, 2008, 12:22 AM
I think many are missing the actual question being asked and focusing on what the condition of the gun should be, and/or debating the presence or condition of any seal/shrink wrap on the box should be in NIB vs. LNIB.

He is specifically asking if: "Gun is like new in box, NEVER fired or even been outside." would mean to you that the factory box is included in the sale, yes or no.

Would/should the buyer expect to receive the factory box with the advertised firearm?

Bazooka Joe71
April 16, 2008, 12:23 AM
I didn't think it was complicated until I started reading this thread !

Would you expect anything less from THR???:p

Oro
April 16, 2008, 12:53 AM
Hey Bazooka Joe - where in Southern IN are you? I was born and grew up there - New Albany and Floyds Knobs.

chiggerbyt
April 16, 2008, 05:25 PM
Thanks to all for responding and giving your views.
It looks like from a careful reading of the posts that most if not everyone agreed that the original (factory) box should/would be included in the sale when advertised as LNIB. chig

jwxspoon
April 16, 2008, 05:31 PM
If it is LNIB I would expect the original packaging (IB would indicate "In Box). That's as plain as it could be.

jw

geophysicishooter
April 16, 2008, 06:13 PM
Ok, Interesting thread here. I have wondered about this as well. It seems like there's always going to be a disconnect between wha someone wants to get for an item and what someone wants to pay him for it. What I'd consider to be in "like new" condition, a prospective buyer considered to be "well used" just according to round count.

Let's forget about the "in box" part and focus solely on the "like new" part..

If a glock is good for half a million rounds and can concievably put 5000 rounds or more down range without needing to be cleaned, is a thousand rounds through a glock "well used" or "like new"???

Bazooka Joe71
April 16, 2008, 08:14 PM
He is specifically asking if: "Gun is like new in box, NEVER fired or even been outside." would mean to you that the factory box is included in the sale, yes or no.

In that case, heck yeah!(if I understand the question)

Hey Bazooka Joe - where in Southern IN are you? I was born and grew up there - New Albany and Floyds Knobs.

Evanville(actually Newburgh). Do you have family in this area? If so, shoot me a PM next time you are in town...I'm always down to go plinking with a fellow THR'r.;)

If a glock is good for half a million rounds and can concievably put 5000 rounds or more down range without needing to be cleaned, is a thousand rounds through a glock "well used" or "like new"???

I believe we are thinking way too much into this now...If someone advertises a firearm is "LNIB" and it has been shot, an estimated rd count is usually present as well...No, I would not consider 5000 rds down the tube "LNIB." I wouldn't consider 500 rds LNIB...

Zach S
April 16, 2008, 09:05 PM
IMO LNIB applies to how the firearm looks, not how much its been fired or handled.

Some folks baby their firearms. They'll run a box af ammo through it and clean it till it shines. They're really careful when they handle it so they dont get any little scratches, if they're range toys or safe queens they dont have any holster wear. I've seen several pistols treated this way, and despite having 1000 rounds ro more through it, they were still "like new."

Mine OTOH were only LNIB when I got them. Most of my guns are tools, and treated as such. They've got holster wear, scratches, etc. You will never LNIB in one of my ads, if I ever sell anything. It may say something like RHPAW - rode hard, put away wet...

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