Ambivalent about pistol choice

[neviander]

The more time that passes between now and when I get my tax rebate check, the more I keep changing my mind as to what I want.

First I wanted a Taurus 24/7 OSS (yeah I know, I'm learning). Then the 1911 REALLY caught my eye, but prices for those can get into the stratosphere pretty quick. Then everything I read about how reliable Glocks are started to sink in and I was set on a G21. Now I'm looking back at the 1911. I love that double tap ability and time testedness (if that's a word). I realize you can do that with DOA as well (double tap), but as fast? I'm doubting it.

Also, will having 8+1 as opposed to 13+1, in the glock, really be of much consequence? I only bring it up because there was a shootout not too long ago where a citizen was trying to take out some psycho at the courthouse with a semi-auto rifle; the citizen was carrying a 1911 and emptied it on him only hitting him once, it disabled him, but said citizen died as a result of the return fire (may he rest in peace).

It will be my main carry weapon. Any suggestions for a torn consumer?

P.S. .45acp will be my desired caliber, whatever the model.

[jdc1244]

Also, will having 8+1 as opposed to 13+1, in the glock, really be of much consequence?

No.

Everyone should own a 1911. The Colt model O1991 (or O1091 stainless like mine) are excellent and not all that expensive considering the reliability, accuracy and quality. Both of my new Colts have been flawless and I can recommend them.

[ColinthePilot]

I had the same problem, only 9mm is my preferred caliber. I made a list of manufacturers I wasn't interested in, whether due to price (Kimber, Sig) personal preference while shooting (Glock, Ruger, S&W), or reputation (HK, because I suck and they hate me.) I know that doesn't leave much, so I settled on CZ. I'll be sending them my tax refund this year.

[Oro]

I have had a cc license for about 15 years. One thing I learned quickly was cc'ing a 1911 was a bear. It is an awesome handgun, and my favorite autoloader bar none, don't get me wrong, I have several.

If CC is your real use for the gun, then maybe go to that forum and poll people about what they like and why. For cc, I now have settled on the two things I prefer - both revolvers. A j-frame S&W, classic style 2" chiefs special in stainless (model 60) for lighter dressed mode, and a 2.5" .357 K-frame 19/66 model.

As to ammo amount - I feel fine with 5 or 6 in a revolver and a pocketed speed strip reload. Very thorough studies have shown the average rounds fired in an actual shootout to be 2 to 2.5.

As to the courthouse incident you cited, knowing how to hit your target is always WAY more important than what caliber you have. A hit with a single .38 +p is way more effective than a miss with a whole magazine of .45acp.

[Sato Ord]

I happen to like the Taurus PT 1911. Put in a ten round mag and that gives you 11 going in. The thinner grip of the 1911 is nice if you have small hands, but the longer grip makes it a little harder to conceal.

Nothing against Glock though, other than they are pug ugly, check out the Glock 27 in .40 cal. It's a nice weapon if your hands fit that asinine grip. Unfortunately mine don't, so I I'm going with an S&W SW40VE.

There, that should keep you up tonight thinking about it.

[Mac45]

Me I like the 1911. Not everyone does.
Lots of folks like Glock. I can't stand 'em, they don't fit MY hand.
Go find a range that rents, and try out a few.
Trying it for yourself is the best way to make sure whatever you end up with works for YOU.
FWIW, my 1911 is my daily carry gun. I think it hides better than a lot of other guns. That doesn't mean kamerer is wrong, just shows that different tools work better for different people.
+1 on trying a revolver. You might just find it works better for you.

[jgo296]

honestly you more than likely will never need to defend yourself
and if you did 8 should be plenty
on the other hand i would recommend the glock?

[neviander]

As to the courthouse incident you cited, knowing how to hit your target is always WAY more important than what caliber you have
I figured I might get a response like that, and I agree, but my overactive imagination putting me in a situation like that would want as many rounds as possible, thanks for the input though.

honestly you more than likely will never need to defend yourself
and if you did 8 should be plenty
Maybe, but that is why we carry, is it not?

[guninthewater]

Neviander, will this be your first handgun? Have you any experience shooting handguns? I'm not trying to be negative, but that is a factor to consider. If you don't already have a handgun, I'd start with a .22 autoloader to learn with, or at least get one to complement your centerfire. Also, don't overdo it with a big caliber for your first handgun. I learned that the hard way many years ago. It's better to start with something milder (like a 9mm) and then work up as your ability increases.

[NG VI]

check out the Glock 27 in .40 cal. It's a nice weapon if your hands fit that asinine grip. Unfortunately mine don't, so I I'm going with an S&W SW40VE.


Big +1 there. The last handgun (and first from a dealer) I bought was a Glock 27, bought specifically for CC, it is quite lively to shoot but it's awesome for carry. I have a hogue slip-on grip for it, which you must trim yourself, not a big deal, and even though it makes the grip somewhat bigger around, to me it really places the gun better in my hand. I have had one on my USP 40 since the day I bought it, took it off once to see how it felt and I didn't like it as much.

CZ. I'll be sending them my tax refund this year.

A HUGE +1!
I paid for my second CZ pistol yesterday, will pick it up next week. I ordered the CZ 75D PCR, for OWB CC and because I love my 97B so much, I wanted to get it a little brother. If you are set on a .45 ACP and don't mind a fullsize gun, check the CZ 97B out. some say it's oversized for CC, but if you dress around it it can work.

[Sato Ord]

Big +1 there. The last handgun (and first from a dealer) I bought was a Glock 27, bought specifically for CC, it is quite lively to shoot but it's awesome for carry. I have a hogue slip-on grip for it, which you must trim yourself, not a big deal, and even though it makes the grip somewhat bigger around, to me it really places the gun better in my hand. I have had one on my USP 40 since the day I bought it, took it off once to see how it felt and I didn't like it as much.

Yeah, Glock grip has those asinine finger groves. Instead of having my index finger lie nicely in the first grove, the ridge hits about the middle of my first finger. The ridge between the second and third groves hits on my second finger. Why didn't Glock just make the damn thing with a straight grip like S&W does? I can't be the only one who is turned off of Glock because of their one-size-fits-none grip.

[Feud]

I can't be the only one who is turned off of Glock because of their one-size-fits-none grip.

<----

You aren't.

[neviander]

will this be your first handgun?
no, I bought my wife a 24/7 9mm not too long ago, she qualified for her CHL with it, I qualified with a S&W 5906 (my father-in-law's) and got a perfect score with it ;) I've shot other handguns in the past as well, so being able to handle it isn't an issue, so much as buyers remorse is.

check the CZ 97B out
I'll do that, that's one I haven't looked at yet.

[neviander]

The CZ 97B looks beeeeeautiful, I like their reputation too. I don't mind it being big, actually I kinda like that fact, but I've never carried before, especially not for an extended period of time.

I'm wondering if trying to keep it from "printing" for 6 or 8 hours (if I were to carry it that long, or longer) will literally be a pain or not. I figure the gun shop won't let me rent it to take it out on the town ;)

[neviander]

HOO boy, after reading about some failure to feed and other issues with the CZ97B, I find the Witness Elite Match, NOICE!

I haven't found any recurrent issues with the Elite Match, I hope I don't. As of right now, THAT will be my next purchase.

[NGIB]

And the good news is you won't stop at a single handgun anyway.

As folks have said, go to a range and rent all the usual suspects as what works for me may not work for you. I didn't have a 1911 for a long time and I have 3 of them now in different flavors and brands. I actually had a Glock 19 for less than a day as those finger grooves just sucked and it was easier to trade it than dremel it...

[Tribal]

My local shop has EAA Witnesses in .45 with a .22 conversion slide for less than $500; I would have picked one up if I weren't set on my next pistol being either another 1911 or a Hi-Power.

[Tom Fury]

...what it will take to CCW a Glock 21? It can be done, but I don't think its' any simpler than a 1911; a bit lighter maybe, but I think the bulk factor is very similar; and again, I don't believe its' possible to carry the 21 in an IWB and be comfortable.

Two words: Lightweight Commander; Colt, S&W 1911sc/pd, or Kimber Pro Carry type. Less Bulk, Less weight. Sagging is as much a problem for CCW as printing; maybe more.

That said, I think the G21 is one of the best fight guns there is; I can't shoot the 2nd gen ones with fingergrooves; as above, doesn't fit my hand. I like finding a bargain on a 1st gen and tricking it out. Might work for you tho; then there is the G30, which should be the perfect solution, (smaller, lighter, 10 rd count) but for me...isn't. Still, you might like it.

I like the G21 for a winter gun; I think I might like a G20. Next experiment...

Cheers, TF

[jad0110]

Now I'm looking back at the 1911. I love that double tap ability and time testedness (if that's a word). I realize you can do that with DOA as well (double tap), but as fast? I'm doubting it.

With practice, the length of pull has so little impact on speed/practical accuracy it is hardly worth mentioning. What is more important is what works for you. Some do better with a light, short pull. Others prefer a longer, heavier pull. Some like a DA/SA pistol (I don't like them one bit, personally). I am wierd, as the two platforms I shoot best are DA revolvers and SA 1911s. Of the two, I slighly prefer the long, firm pull of my revolvers. I'm less likely to anticipate the shot with the longer pull (flinch), and the higher pull weight gives me something to, errr, balance against ... probably a poor way to describe it.

BTW, I myself prefer CCW with a heavier 1911 (5" Government, no less) to a ligher Glock or XD because of the slimness of the design. Very easy to conceal for me (6'7", 200 lbs). With a nice gunbelt and holster, the 1911s greater weight isn't noticeable after 10 minutes. I'm wearing the 1911 IWB at about 3:30 right now, and I hardly notice it.

Plus I can't hit a barn from inside with a Glock (I can just manage that with an XD :o ). Glocks are fine pistols, but the ergonomics either work perfectly or not at all, it seems. Do pick what works for you.

And as others have chimed in, a 22 makes a great, inexpensive training pistol. You might therefore consider a 22 soon as well.

[deercop]

Probably NOT what you want to hear (I know I ignored it when someone knowledgable suggested it to me when I started to carry 20 years ago), but in my opinion the most reliable and versatile concealed carry handgun is the humble Airweight J-frame .38 Special revolver. You can carry that little sucker on the belt, ankle, pocket, etc., it doesn't weigh a ton, it's ultra reliable, they're very accurate if you do your part, it's reasonably powerful enough, it's light weight, etc etc etc.

IF I were limited to one concealed carry gun, it would be my S&W 642-1 Airweight. If I were limited to two, I would add my Seecamp LWS 32. If three, I would add either my Sig P239 or my Glock 27.

[hank327]

there was a shootout not too long ago where a citizen was trying to take out some psycho at the courthouse with a semi-auto rifle; the citizen was carrying a 1911 and emptied it on him only hitting him once, it disabled him, but said citizen died as a result of the return fire (may he rest in peace).

That occurred in Tyler, TX and the psycho was armed with an AK style rifle.
He was also wearing body armor. The private citizen made at least one good center of mass hit on the shooter with his 1911 but it was stopped by the armor. The tragedy that followed wasn't because of the magazine capacity (or lack thereof) of the 1911, but because the citizen brought a pistol to a rifle fight. IIRC, the citizen, whose apartment was across the street from the courthouse, owned a rifle(s) as well as handguns. Had he taken a moment to arm himself with a rifle, the outcome may very well have ended on a happier note.

I wouldn't let magazine capacity be the deciding factor on which handgun I chose. Choose the pistol that feels best to you and which you like shooting the most.

[neviander]

because the citizen brought a pistol to a rifle fight
He went outside to meet the bad guy? I thought he was just a passerby that got caught up in the mix.

And the good news is you won't stop at a single handgun anyway.
Ain't that the truth. It's a classic case of wanting my cake and eating it too.