[hockeybum]

Hey y'all. My first time in the section ever.
After taking my hunter's safety course i was required to shoot a muzzle loader, and LOVED it.
I wanna get one now, and will probably go hunting with it, but mainly its something to mess around with. I don't want a new style gun, preferably something older style, like a traditional rifle. Here are some questions:
#1. I was considering getting one of the build it yourself kits seeing as me and my dad would really enjoy that. Are these any good or should i buy one that already comes built?
#2. Also, whats the difference between percussion and flintlock?
Thanks.

[Voodoochile]

I'll go back words..

#2
Flintlock is the older ignition designs of the two where as the cock holds a piece of flint protected with a leather strip between its jaws, the cock is pulled back to the first notch, the pan is charged with a small ammount of fine FFFFG powder, & the Frizzen is closed over top, then the cock is pulled back to the last position to ready the weapon to fire.
As the hammer is released the flint strikes the frizzen causing it to shower sparks onto the priming charge setting it off & then igniting the primary charge & launching the bullet "or shot" to the target, this all happens in just less than a second if done properly.

Percussion has been around since the early 19th century where instead of a flint attached to the cock it has a hammer instead & without a frizzen covering the exposed priming pan there is an attached bolster with a nipple where a percussion cap "musket, or #11 mostly" is placed onto, the weapons hammer is placed into the full cock position readying the weapon to fire.
When the hammer is released it strikes the percussion cap causing it to explode sparks into the main charge where it fires the bullet "or shot" to the target.

#1
Building yourself a rifle is very rewarding experience & when finished you would cherrish for a many a years but for you to commit yourself to building a fine hunting weapon is a decision that should be yours by the knowledge that you presently posess & the ammount of patience that you will require to produce the fine piece that you may wish to acquire.

With my knowledge I would say go for the project with your father, but again this is something that you have to think about yourself, maybe buy your self a prebuilt one to get the feel of what to expect & how you would like to either improve apaun it or change it astetically & then purchase yourself a kit to build..

[4v50 Gary]

Kits are fun and it's good for a father-son bonding experience. Years from now, your grandkid will prize the rifle made by you and his great-grandfather.

[Starter52]

Building a gun from a kit can be rewarding or frustrating depending on your skill level.

Fact is, this time of year you can pick up a used percussion rifle for hardly more than the price of a kit + the things you'll need to finish it.

What brands? CVA makes decent blackpowder rifles. Traditions is OK but a lesser quality. Thompson/Center is the gold standard.

[Pancho]

The kits are great but if it were me I'd by something to shoot first and wait until winter to get a kit. You don't want to waste precious good weather indoors building when you could be shooting. I assumed that since you're a hockeybum you might live where there is a winter.
As for the difference between flintlock and percussion. In simple terms it refers to how you ignite the main charge in the gun. The flintlock can be rather fussy for the beginner so I'd stick with percussion.
There are plenty of good guns to choose from for the newbie. My personal favorites would be made by Lyman or Thompson Center.

[hockeybum]

Thanks for the help guys. Actually, I live in Florida, so its always sunny. I played roller hockey when i was younger... Ill probably end up buying a kit just because it gives me something to do now that lacrosse season is done. Again, thanks for everything guys.

[arcticap]

Kits often cost more money to complete and the end quality is unknown.
Plus, there's usually a warranty when buying a factory made gun. Some kits might have warranties too but not always, especially if it's due to the builder's fault. :uhoh:

Not as many models come in kit form either.

People need so many standard accessories after buying a gun or building one, which is another chunk of change. ;)

Good luck with whatever you end up buying. :)

[scrat]

Check out Black powder 101 its an online video of black powder. you can get the link on the first post Black Powder essentials. They are really good videos that teach you the difference on black powder rifles. They also teach you the proper techniques on how to load and shoot them.

[Mike OTDP]

It depends on precisely what you want...there are some suppliers who will sell you a GOOD kit, but it's not cheap.

[mykeal]

Noob,

First, read and watch the threads in the sticky thread, Black Powder Essentials, at the top of this forum. Virtually everything you will need to know is covered there. It also includes the Black Powder 101 video that Scrat mentioned, in case you didn't know where it was.

Next, I'm going to discourage you from building a kit as your first black powder gun. I started with building my own guns over 30 years ago, and while it's a very rewarding experience, especially when you can do it as a family project, it's a hard way to learn about black powder.

And likewise stay away from a flintlock as your first black powder gun. They're great fun but take quite a bit to learn to operate. A percussion cap gun will be an easier start.

Buy an inexpensive percussion rifle or even a single shot pistol, read the tutorials in the sticky thread and go make some smoke. Then buy a good Traditions or Lyman kit; by then you'll know how things work and the kit will not be nearly as much a mystery. The Traditions and Lyman kits are great for beginners as they take no special knowledge or skill beyond basic sanding, staining, finishing and polishing. You can get as fancy or as simple as your skills allow.

Good luck, and welcome.

[Loyalist Dave]

I love my flintlock, but they are very pricey when compared to a good, reliable, accurate percussion gun. (If you go cheap on a flinter you get junk - personal experience) They have a personality all their own, and you will have to spend lots of time at the range (not a bad thing mind you) to get good with one. I think for a first gun a percussion is a great idea.

(imho) The bragging rights a bit better with a flinter, but again, frustration will cause discouragement as there are several additional variables you need to master to get one to shoot well.

Besides, you can graduate "up" to a flinter when you're ready, AND keep the caplock, for damp weather, the kids, etc.

KITS? The term covers a wide range of stuff. Some makers sell "kits" that require you to sand, stain, and seal the wood, and do some light metal polishing, and some sell you basic parts, and you have to fit them into a partially prefab stock. A friend went to a seminar on making a flintlock rifle from scratch, and their version of a "kit" was a slab of walnut for a stock, several pieces of bar stock for lock, trigger, and barrel, and a few pieces of rough cast brass hardware (the students were expected to forge, file, and rifle the barrel and make the lock from scratch!).

I'd recommend a percussion, Lyman Great Plains Rifle in kit form. (I like .54 caliber.) Probably run you $400 including shipping or less if you shop around.

LD

[theotherwaldo]

What mykeal said. I built my first black powder rifle from an incomplete kit (a CVA Blazer) and became so frustrated that I never fired it. That was 35 years ago, and that finally-finished project is still in the safe.
The kit-building project stunted my interest in shooting black-powder rifles.

Get a finished gun and shoot it. Then get a kit gun so that you can shoot together!

[Rachen]

Hockeybum, do you know that you have just experimented with something which you will never be able to break the addiction of?:D:D:D

The more you try it, the more fun it will get, the more you will be HOOKED!

Welcome to the sport man:D:D

[scrat]

Sport or Addiction

[sharps59]

I like the civil war guns best even for hunting they load quicker if a second shot if needed. plus you can then get into skirmishing if you like competive breakable targets. Check out the N-SSA site there are teams in FL.:banghead:

[hockeybum]

allright, narrowing down selection :D

First off, wanna say THANK YOU to everyone.

Ok, so I've decided to NOT go with a kit. Ill get the kit later on. Wanna figure out how everything works, and then ill buy a kit.

K, Im looking at older style guns. My main hunting is duck with shotguns, so this is just going to be something to shoot targets with and maybe the occasional rabbit or something small.

I'm looking at something like this one (http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_94877_400003001_400000000_400003000_400-3-1)

or maybe this one (http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_94876_400003001_400000000_400003000_400-3-1)

Later on, ill get a pistol. I'll end up buying a book of some sort and learning as much as I can.

Imma take a look at the blackpowder essentials now and learn as much as possible.

Again, Thanks for everything guys, I really appreciate it.


EDIT: BTW, i've only fired one shoot from a blackpowder gun, but it was the most rewarding shot I've ever taken. I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about, but I guess its something with knowing that the reason that guns shooting is cause the way you loaded it.

[scrat]

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0006567210042a&type=product&cmCat=cchart_trd_blk_pwdr_rfl

this is cheaper same model

[theotherwaldo]

Sounds like you've thought it out, hockeybum. Have fun!

[arcticap]

Check out the some of the reasonable prices here:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/deptsearch2x.asp?dept=%4D%55%5A%5A%4C%45%4C%4F%41%44%49%4E%47&dept2=%4D%55%5A%5A%4C%45%4C%4F%41%44%49%4E%47%20%52%49%46%4C%45%53

Many of the Lyman rifles are pictured with the optional rear peep sight which does not come standard.
They have some decent prices on Traditions guns too. The basic Traditions DeerHunter comes with either a wood or synthetic stock, it shoots patched round balls and sabots well, has sling swivels, adjustable high visibility sights and a handy length. Its economical price helps to reduce the amount of worry about dinging up the stock when hunting.
It's not necessary to spend a lot of money on a gun just to plink, target shoot, hunt and have fun.
Plus it costs about $75 - $100 more for all of the necessary accessories, powder and ammo just to get started shooting.

[Pancho]

Hockeybum, You should note that the two rifles you showed as interesting differ in their rate of rifling twist. The first is 1 in 48, this gun is a compromise and will shoot both patched roundballs and maxieballs. The second rifle has a twist of 1 in 66, this gun is a slow twist barrel and is meant for patched roundball only.
We all hope you get into the sport and join our family of muzzleloading addicts. Who knows, you might be hunting ducks in the future with a smooth bore muzzleloader, now we're really talking cool.

[SASS#23149]

I have a Traditions rifle,and my son has a T/C Hawken.the Hawken is hands down the better rifle.It will shoot rings around my rifle.
For economy,round ball is the way to go and do be sure to get a rifle with the proper twist.
YOu can always buy another one for shooting conicals. :)

[kycajun]

With the introduction of in-lines traditional used blackpowder rifles have drop in price dramatically. Look for a good used Thompson Center you can find renegade for less than 100.00. St Louis Hawkins for little more.
I paid 75.00 for my renegade with a scope in excellent shape.
deals are made to be had.
I make my own .50 maxie balls and use Goex black powder. I only hunt with blackpowder. I also shoot blackpowder revolvers now you are talking about a thill.
BTW i killed an 8 pointer last year with two shots from my muzzleloader one on Wednesday and second one on Sunday with a bullet i made. Wednesday shot The load didn't go off. Cap just snapped. Good luck and have fun with it