[theotherwaldo]

I was about to start work on another bunch of late Byzantine/early medieval iron blades as gifts for my friends in the SCA when I caught myself thinking about these as "newer stuff." Sure, they're about half the age of some of the bronzes, and about a quarter as old as a few of the stone palm knives.
http://www.ancient-treasures.com/~auctions/d663/26.jpg
Still. They're about fifteen hundred years old, and come from both the time and the place of the children of Belisarius.

So I got to thinking: What is an old knife to you? Is it related to age, value, memories, history, or what?

[22-rimfire]

Yep, those are old. Sure glad you appreciate such things. I'm sorry to admit that if I saw them in an old barn, I'd probably throw them in the trash and they'd be gone in some landfill since I wouldn't know what I was looking at. Knowledge is crucial.

I also hate to admit but I tend to think of a 10 year old knife as "old".

[alaskanativeson]

I have* a stone bladed ulu that I gave my father-in-law as a Christmas gift a year ago. The problem with primitive knives up here is that since the same type of knife was used here 5000 years ago as they used 100 years ago there's no way I can really tell how old it is. Doesn't mean it isn't really interesting though.

*I guess I should have said "my father-in-law has..."

[wuluf]

My Dad's pocket knife. He's had it since the 1950's..THAT's old!

[mokin]

Nice pics. Those definately qualify as they would probably make the research folks I work with nuts. I've found blades that go back seven thousand years or so, but I generally don't count them. Those get bagged, currated, and tucked away in a museum basement never to see the light of day again. I do count the WWI bayonets in my collection and the ca. 1890 hunting knife as old though.

[theotherwaldo]

I must admit that I don't own that bunch of blades in the picture. I probably will by next Thursday. The ones that I'm working on looked much the same when I started on them.

They won't look all that much better when I'm done. I mostly clean them of loose rust and scale, true them with gentle cold hammering, dress the edge the same way, and add appropriate hilts or scales.

I've been using frankincense, mammoth ivory, and hackberry deadwood for handles and scales, but I broke my crucible so I can't cast new brass tangs and hilts until I get another graphite block and hog out another crucible.

I like frankincense. It looks like and works like amber, but it's cheap. It smells good, too.

Hackberry deadwood is ugly, but it's easy to make it look ancient and weathered.

When I get a few finished I'll post some pics.

[TexasBen317]

While I am not a collector, I do have a couple of large butcher knives that my dad and his dad used in the butcher shop back during the depression in their store in the Oklahoma panhandle.

As for personal knives, I still have my First buck folding knife that I bought in the early 70's.. Skinned more than one deer..
I tend to keep any knives I get but don't sell or trade them.. Just like them and use them.

[The Tourist]

Except for my Cub Scout pocketknife of 1958 (and a few other "momentos"), I have mostly more modern stuff. I always look to the future.

The moment EFI was invented I changed out every carburetor I owned.

In fact, I would bet money that my T-shirts, jeans and boots are usually older than my knives.

[hso]

Wow!

That's a great collection. Will you be able to remove the rust without loosing too much material?

The oldest blades I have are an Edo period Wakizashi and a ~ 700 year old kris.

After that it's the great great whatever's Civil War saber and then WWI and WWII knives.

[The Tourist]

I have...an Edo period Wakizashi

:eek::eek::eek:

Can I see a picture?

[hso]

TT,

Gonna have to wait until I get back. ;) I don't think I have one on my laptop.

[The Tourist]

Gonna have to wait until I get back.

Is it with a polisher? We have one here in Madison, but I cannot even get in to meet with him. I'd just like to watch him work, just once.

There are videos on youtube of a polisher in Japan. Yikes.

[theotherwaldo]

I'd love to see that kris, hso, the only one I have is a ten-year-old tourist piece I use for school displays. Pretty, with correct conformation, but the blade is modern and has a false edge.

Iron is funny stuff. Once it develops a rusty crust, it tends to stabilize if left in a relatively dry location. These Bosnian and Macedonian blades clean up with relatively little additional material loss. Sure, some look like cross-cut saw blades when you get them, and there's not much you can do with them except use them as examples of the problems of using iron for tools. The others dress down well enough to give to my medievalist friends.

[alaskanativeson]

If this topic is still around when I get down to Utah in a month I'll take a picture of that ulu and post it as well.

[rcmodel]

Theotherwaldo
Where are you getting those things?

rcmodel

[hso]

I'm in Kuwait for the next week or so and won't be back home to check the tower for an image.

I've not sent the wakizashi off for restoration.

The kris shares a drawer in the display cabinet with it.

[theotherwaldo]

Where are you getting those things?

Would you believe EBay? A guy that trades under the name ancient treasures sorts them out of the loads of coins and such that he buys from Bosnia, Macedonia, the 'Stans, and such places and offers them up for sale. (Oops. Heck. Now you'll all outbid me.)

[rcmodel]

That's pretty darn neat!

I'll leave you alone on eBay, but I don't know about everyone else!

Nearest I have come to anything like that was finding a civil war sword blade in a farmers junk-iron pile.

Oh! And a WWII Samurai sword in an antique shop umbrella & cane crock jar for $15.00 bucks!

rcmodel

[hso]

theotherwaldo,

Now why would we outbid you when we could cooperate with you on lots this guy has to offer? You want piece A&B of A, B, C, D and someone here would just think it's cool to pay you to stabilize C and D for them to put in their office. Win/Win.

[MatthewVanitas]

Is the second blade from the top from a friction-folder knife?

The tang looks too short to be a grip, so I wonder if a pivot goes in the first hole, with the tang being held under the thumb to keep it in the open position.

It looks very similar to the blades on the Svord friction-folder knives we've had for THR group buys.

Will we get to see your finished products too?

[hso]

MV,

That is a classic friction folder design that goes back before Roman times.

[theotherwaldo]

I've never found one of those complete with a grip, but the first hole normally has a peened-over pin and the second has a ring, usually with a good bit of wear to the ring and the hole. My guess is that the blade is pressed into a piece of slotted wood, then pinned in place using one pin. The ring probably wouldn't go through the wood grip, as it is small in diameter. This knife probably hung from a lanyard around someone's neck.

On careful study, this blade could have been mounted either way. Now I'm going to have to try both mountings.

[hso]

The hole closest to the blade is the pivot.

Bone, wood, ivory and sometimes brass or copper are slotted for the "handle" and the pivot pin goes through the handle and pivot hole in the blade. The "tail" fits into a notch or groove in the handle so that the tang is captured by the user's hand when in use so that the blade does not fold close. This is just like the Svords that MV was kind enough to work up as a group buy before (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=301334&highlight=svord) http://www.svord.com/images/knives/PK-900x.jpgand illustrated below from http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=8972721

http://image1.etsy.com/il_430xN.17613573.jpg
http://image2.etsy.com/il_430xN.17613662.jpg

[theken206]

" are an Edo period Wakizashi"

nice

[Frandy]

The Marble that belonged to my father (born in 1917), which has on one side of the blade:

PAT'D 1918
U.S.A.

http://homepage.mac.com/franman/.Pictures/knives/Marble_Fieldcraft_stacked_leather_640.jpg

[hso]

Frandy,

Very cool.

[theotherwaldo]

Well, I won the bid on those old iron blades that started this thread. I'll start work on them as soon as they arrive.

Thanks for providing the shell designs for those Roman-style folding knives!

Yeah, they'll never be beautiful. So what, they will definitely have a history!