Give Me One Good Reason

[USMCDK]

Hi everybody (Voice of Dr. Nick)

USMCDK Here and I have a question that has just finally boiled it's way to the top of my brain...

Why oh WHY do people feel the need to go against someones thread and advise someone into buying a weapon system that wasn't even in the choices of the OP???

It's just down right rude.

For example:

In my thread PSG-1 http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=352888 people went outta their way to try and get me to change my mind about finding the rifle of my dreams and buy a different brand. GRANTED: they were trying to save me some $$$ but at the same time they didn't even take into consideration that my heart and soul were/are set on that weapon system, of that genre, and that weapon system alone. Also in this thread; http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=356508

Our fellow firearm friend politely asks a question about which 9mm to get and gives only(3) three choices to choose from, but of course no someone, no names mentioned, out right goes against the grain and suggests a weapon system that isn't even listed. I feel (FEEL) that it is highly disrespectful to the OP to do such a thing. It even boarderlines high-jacking. C'mon you guys can't tell me, that if you post something outside of the choice parameter, that others won't start to say this and that about the firearm you suggested and then get as far as possible from the OP's idea and call for help.

Think about this guys, how would you feel if, you start a new thread with an excellent question (whether if it's excellent because you think so or others do too is irrelevant right now) about getting some advise about a choice between item A, B, C, etc... (how many choices doesn't matter) and someone else comes into YOUR thread and BLATANTLY disregards your question/choice(s) and suggest something totally different than what you are asking/posting about?

Seriously I am not trying to troll here. These are legitamate questions here and I really think that they deserve answers... Not only for me but for everyone else out there that has ever had such a thing happen to them. Further more they are legitamate because it should make US ALL think about what we are typing to others and how it effects their feelings and their thread.

So to sum this up, the question(s) are

Why would you...? and How would you feel if...?

Please remember (ALL OF US) to be respectful of one anothers explaination/beliefs in this matter. It is not NOT a he said she said contest or a Testosterone measuring contest. PLEASE just bare that in mind when you are posting here... or anywhere for that matter.

Thank you

Sincerely and Respectfully,

USMCDK

MODS AND ADMINS

I will understand if you have to lock this thread due to the nature of said questions, but I beg of you to let this one ride and see where it goes for now. Thank you once again.

[wideym]

If I suggested a gun not on the list it is probably because a different gun than the one on the list would serve better for his described needs or maybe he didn't know of other options.

[easyg]

Why oh WHY do people feel the need to go against someones thread and advise someone into buying a weapon system that wasn't even in the choices of the OP???
Why????
I guess it's just human nature for folks to want to share with others that which has worked for them.
A million years ago there might have been a caveman asking "which rocks make the best firestarter when banged together?"......and there might have been another caveman who answered "I find that rubbing these two sticks together is a better firestarter".


Think about this guys, how would you feel if, you start a new thread with an excellent question (whether if it's excellent because you think so or others do too is irrelevant right now) about getting some advise about a choice between item A, B, C, etc... (how many choices doesn't matter) and someone else comes into YOUR thread and BLATANTLY disregards your question/choice(s) and suggest something totally different than what you are asking/posting about?
It really doesn't bother me much.
After all, it's only the internet.
And when you post anything on the internet, you have to take the bad with the good.
Luckily, it doesn't take long for one to learn whom to ignore.

Besides, sometimes a posters choices just suck.
If you think options A, B, and C all suck, shouldn't you tell the poster?

[USMCDK]

only in a PM but that's my opinion. I do see both your points and valid they are, but the thing still remains that if some posts about said choices it is okay to assume (I know to assume makes an @$$ out of U and ME) that the poster has looked into this for a while and those are the choices his/her heart is set/devided upon and nothing else.

You get what I mean???

[modifiedbrowning]

I agree USMCDK, it annoys me as well when someone asks about certain models and people suggest something not asked about. Even more annoying is when someone specifically says they do not want a certain brand and someone suggests it anyway.

[RyanM]

Why????
I guess it's just human nature for folks to want to share with others that which has worked for them.
A million years ago there might have been a caveman asking "which rocks make the best firestarter when banged together?"......and there might have been another caveman who answered "I find that rubbing these two sticks together is a better firestarter".

I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything. Very funny.

Seriously, sometimes people will just have a distaste for all the options presented, or will genuinely believe that something else is a better choice for a person's needs. And it's entirely possible that they will then propose an option which the first person didn't even think of in the first place.

[USMCDK]

Seriously, sometimes people will just have a distaste for all the options presented, or will genuinely believe that something else is a better choice for a person's needs. And it's entirely possible that they will then propose an option which the first person didn't even think of in the first place.

I agree and can even say I have done so in some posts, but with one slight difference... I let the OP know that I know nothing about said choice and suggest something that I have experience with, but I also add that they should go with what kicks them best and stick with it no matter what anyone says.

[CWL]

You are asking for opinions on a free & open forum. Don't hope to have everyone agree with you.

Yes, sometimes people are talking out of their rear-ends ("I hear Desert Eagles can shoot down helicopters!"), but other times, you are hearing the opinions of people with decades of experience including real SD & combat experience.

You have to expect this, it's the internet.

[Dismantler]

As long as the rules of courtesy are followed, no flaming or personal attacks, you have to take what you get on the internet.

I moved to this site because a different site allowed personal attacks and insults.

I believe that most of the posters really mean well, and believe in the advice that they are giving. If I am asking for a snubby recommendation, and somebody suggests a Beretta Tomcat .32 auto, I am not bothered by it. It is a legitimate suggestion for a product that may fill the same need as a snubby. I take the advice or leave it.

[GrendelPrime]

One of the reasons I frequent the forums is the ability to collect so many viewpoints on a subject.

Someone may ask about the cheapest place to find .45 ACP ammunition, not being aware of reloading as an option.
Listing only stores and sites that sell ammo would be answering his question, but would not help him realize all his options.

At worst, a post may be OT and contribute nothing to the thread, at best, it may open the OPs eyes to possibilities not yet explored.

[tntwatt]

People are egocentric and tend to believe what they own and want is better.

The only time I would offer "other" weapon opinion is if "brand A" has been posted as knocked out for a reason that may be technically incorrect or corrected with an aftermarket part. Though that rarely happens.

[tinygnat219]

Simple really,

I toss some other ideas out there if the OP doesn't implicitly state that he's only interested in 2-3 choices. I do that because maybe the OP isn't aware of some other choices out there that fit his/her criteria.

I feel that if someone asks advice and unless specific parameters are set (i.e. looking for an inexpensive 9MM, Taurus will not be considered) I will try and give the most useful advice I can, whether it was included in their submission or not.

[ArmedBear]

my heart and soul were/are set on that weapon system

Sometimes our "hearts and souls" are telling us to waste money on overpriced junk, perhaps?

Or maybe some other people can't see past their own noses, and understand that their "top choice" doesn't even offer what you are looking for. I like Weatherby stocks, for example. Someone else might not, but if I say I want something with that style of comb, recommending a Model 7 doesn't help me. So I can ignore it.

I figure that free advice is okay with me. I don't have to take it. There are some people here who sound like they have the IQ of a catfish, or the empathy of Jeffrey Dahmer. I take that into account. OTOH there are people here who are truly good folks, and have had a lot of experience, if you can figure out who they are.

Had I asked here first, I could have saved a few bucks over the years, I can tell you that much.:) It just takes a little patience to separate the wheat from the chaff. I hope some people have ignored a few of my posts, too.

What I don't do is let the "advice" hurt my feelings. Why do you?

Next time this happens, just think of this picture, and you'll feel fine again.

http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/1008/1008_jenkins.jpg

[FranklyTodd]

USMCDK

I would go with an HK 45c with an X2 light/laser combo.

Glad I couild halp,
FT

[USMCDK]

Todd may I make a correction...

The X2 by Insight Technologies is actually just a flish light for small guns i.e. the walther p22. The onw that you are talking about would be the M6 or the M3 (x) model. but thank you just the same...

USMCDK

On another note I have really thought about what most of you have said and I agree with alot of you about alot of things, not everything but most. I can understand TRYING to help someone see things of the other side of the spectrum. Also I agree about the stament about the parameters thing. If they didn't limit the thread to solely those choices, sadly I have done this, then it's still fair game to post outside of the choices given, I agree.

I really do apologize if I may have offended any of you or even made some of you feel like I am just a big baby, that wasn't my intention and I was pretty PO'ed at the time so I really didn't put a whole hell of a lot of thought into what I was posting, but at least I have the option to continualy correct myself.

[jmr40]

One thing that I see a lot, and I am guilty of as well, is people not reading the post carefully. Sometimes if the post is long I may skim it and miss a line such as "I've already tried brand X and did not like it". Then sure enough I may reccomend that brand. I've had people do the same to me.

[USMCDK]

All too true jmr40 I am guilty as charged to the same crime. This is why I am saying that I was only ircked at that moment when I hastefully posted this thread. I don't want it closed because it's getting the attention it deserve and people are posting really well thought out replies that are highly legit. I hope this thread helps out others along the way. I am sure that I am not the only one that has ever felt as such about things that happen in post. Another thing I want to point out is that no one and I mean no one is even disagreeing or fight about this right now and you know, that's the THR way my friends. Let us all keep it this way, not just here but in every and all post/threads out there. I hope that one day I will have the lugury of calling you all friends in just the real sense of the word.

[makarovnik]

If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.

[USMCDK]

I'm glad I am a cook, heat is never a problem just the pesky flies that like to sneak their way in and ruin our day.

[xring44]

If the OP has already narrowed the field from the thousands available to only three, he should be capable of correctly choosing the one of the three that best suits him. But obviously, by him asking advise on which of the three would best serve him, he questions his own judgement. Personally, I believe that most people will purchase the one they believe is best for their use, no matter what the resident experts have to offer in the advise department. That being said, I suspect that most posters want to converse with others about a pleasurable hobby that they both enjoy, whether or not they agree on the model of the toy.

[mavracer]

first off ArmedBear where'd you get my picture.

USMCDK
I have to agree I dislike when posters confuse their opinion with facts.the worst are the the ones who answer the question "I want anything but brand X? with brand X

[USMCDK]

Not to discredit anyone here but mavracer I see that you truly get my point here.

+10 my friend.

+5 for everyone else too for honest answers

[spwenger]

Someone may start a thread asking for a recommendation between two or three specific firearms. However, that person is not likely to be the only one reading the responses. Other people may have insights that could benefit other readers, who, for lack of a better description, may be more open-minded than the original poster, in the sense that they may be interested in learning about additional choices that might make more sense for them.

If you are not willing to tolerate those additional views, you may do better seeking out individuals whose opinions you value and consulting them privately. I will add, however, that I frequently receive requests for recommendations, generated by my own website and I figure that if someone cares about my opinion, they want an honest one. As a result, I don't feel inhibited about offering alternatives beyond the parameters of the original question.

[Technosavant]

A few possible reasons that I can think of:

1) Ignorance on the part of the OP, whether it exists or not. Not being slanderous here, but sometimes somebody will ask about guns for a purpose where they truly are not suited. "A .338 WinMag or .418 Barrett for small game hunting?" would be an extreme example of this. The respondents could also think that the OP has overlooked some other guns that also merit a look. Generally, unless the OP has explicitly stated "I am not interested in anything else" or the "which gun for X" is reasonable, this is a possibility. The OP could truly not know what they are asking or they may actually have overlooked things.

2) Arrogance. There are those folks for whom their pet guns are the answer to everything, if only you change your requirements. They're the ones shouting "Glock" in a 1911 thread (or vice versa), and also like to tout the merits of subcompact hybrids when somebody is looking for a competent SUV. This is the rampant fanboyism.

3) A consumer scorned. This person went down that route, had a bad experience, and is now trying to save others from the same. It is possible that the person is right, and the firearm in question really is junk. It is more likely that the person just got a lemon, but now views all guns from that maker as trash. These people are generally the "haters," with varying degrees of vitriol.

If a person does not want other guns to come into play, I think it is necessary to say "these are the ones I am considering, I've ruled out everything else" or somesuch. If people persist in being irrelevant, just ignore them.

There will always be people who slightly (or completely) derail threads on the internet. If we stayed completely on topic on every thread, then most threads would be rather short and boring.

[USMCDK]

Technosavant I am almost in tears to my ignorance. I must say you guys have really opened my eyes I never realy thought of all those angles and I feel like an idiot :banghead: ah that's better...

Anyways, I think this thread alone is a good one to have posted. People can come here and get a really good Idea of what the THR standards are with real examples to go by and not just an agreement disclaimer that most people just hit the agree button without even reading.

You guys are the best and I must say IMHO that you are really what makes THR so awesome, not to disinclude the Mods and Admins but you guys go without saying anyway, it's just a given.

[Zak Smith]

This is the dilemma of a newbie asking questions for answers he wants to hear, while the experienced try to convince him of the answers he needs to hear. Of course, the disconnects in this characterization are where the problems lie.

[Joe the Redneck]

Dont regret this post. You raise a great point.

[Technosavant]

Technosavant I am almost in tears to my ignorance. I must say you guys have really opened my eyes I never realy thought of all those angles and I feel like an idiot ah that's better...


I may not have made myself clear; when I said "ignorance," I wasn't meaning it in a disrespectful way, nor did I mean that it necessarily applied to the OP. Classically, it just means to be uninformed/uneducated, and that is quite possible. Or, the respondent could assume ignorance, even if it doesn't exist.

We all get along, and I'd rather talk guns (even if ones that don't interest me) instead of work any day.

[texas bulldog]

i think some very good, legitimate reasons have been given for this phenomenon, especially by technosavant. as a relative noob, i must say that i value the variety of opinions i find here, as i am often exposed to new things i hadn't considered before.

on the flipside, i must say i occasionally share your annoyance on this issue. my favorites usually revolve around home defense weapon selection. why would people come into the handgun forum to tell people asking a very focused HD handgun question that they need to buy a shotgun? same for telling people they need to get an AR when asking about shotguns? or to get a revolver when asking about a HD carbine? i just don't get that. to some extent we need to trust that the OP has considered the benefits of the different platforms. and if they say they've decided to go with a handgun (or whatever), we can probably safely conclude that they know of the existence of shotguns and carbines and (for whatever reason) have decided against them.

my other favortie not too long ago was a gentleman asking about .22 double-action revolvers to complement his other double-action wheelguns and the first three responses all just said "ruger single-six" without any additional comment. hey, the ruger's a fine gun, but what part of "double action" was unclear?

i have always tried to ignore such responses and keep my annoyance to myself. i guess i just want to thank the OP for an opportunity to vent here.

word.

[highorder]

This is the dilemma of a newbie asking questions for answers he wants to hear, while the experienced try to convince him of the answers he needs to hear.

Well said Zak.

[SwampWolf]

I personally don't mind getting inputs from others that are outside the parameters of the original question but I can understand why others might. What I do think gets old pretty quick is the so helpful advice to "get both..." Well, duh!

[Vodka7]

Zak said it perfectly.

And in the case of your specific thread, it fit the profile of a Counter-Strike Kid. Those of us who have been here for a while have seen the same threads a million times from CSK's who decided based on a videogame and no real-world experience with the platform that they want an MP5, Desert Eagle, or (God forbid) an AWP. Especially with the way you phrased the question, it appeared that you hadn't done any major research whatsoever. A quick search of GunBroker or the forums would have given you the information you need to either buy a real PSG-1 or comission an excellent clone.

So, a lot of people are going to be a little ornery answering a question like yours--it's nothing against you specifically, and I personally would always prefer to avoid a thread like that than post something that's borderline offtopic or out of the scope of the original question, but not everyone's like me. Some people just can't help themselves. You've probably seen a lot of threads were someone has jokingly said "buy a glock," because people used to (and unfortunately still do) recommend a Glock no matter what question the original poster asked. Then, for a while, it was "buy an XD." Now it seems like "buy an M&P" is the standard reply.

And, I don't want this to seem like I'm attacking you. It's perfectly fine to see something in a movie or a video game and want to buy it. I'm sure James Bond was responisble for a good portion of Walther's and Aston-Martin's sales back in the day :)

But when you come in asking a common question like that, you have to assume that people are going to think that you haven't done any research, so they're going to try and provide you with other options that may turn out to be better options. Easyg was right on that one.

[USMCDK]

Well said everyone. To make my retort to Vodka7 you are right, but I didn't mention (A) I was 12 when the game Metal gear Solid came out and played it, I am 25 now. (B) I did look into it and do my homework about the PSG-1 and that is the man reason that I want it now, yes to me it's still fantasy cool, but I respect it for what it really is and not what Solid Snake did with it. (C) I was using my thread as an example for this thread about what was driving me nuts at the time, not so much as to create ammo against me, but it okay and I DON'T feel that you are attacking me in anyway.

Thank you.

Now I will tell you this I am no CSK or anything of that type, those games do not portray any of the weapon systems correctly to begin withm, but I agree you have KIDS out there that beliewve in that stuff like its gospel and I feel real bad for them.

As for James Bond he sure did get a lot of tail no matter what he shot or drove, but it was all still fancy nice anyway. +1,000 there Sean Conery (I think I spelled his name wrong)

Joe I don't usually regret any of my posts at least not that I can really remember. I do my best to take things witha grain of salt. I was merely showing in my own way my realization of my actions and taking resposiblity for them. Thank you for the kind words though.

:neener: DAMN YOU SCUBA STE... I mean highorder LoL. I had to man glad to see you here in this thread, thank you for posting.