Handgun Recoil

[xSTiNGx]

What effect does a slide have on recoil? Let's say you have a revolver and a semi-auto each chambered for .45 ACP, and they each weigh the same and have the same barrel length.

How would the recoil differ between the two? Would it? Is a heavier slide better at reducing recoil than a lighter slide?

Thanks!

[Dave Workman]

It's a bit more complicated than that.
The cycling of the slide does absorb or dissipate some of the felt recoil, while in a revolver, you get the full jolt.
I have found that the .45 ACP in a semi-auto has about the same recoil as a .45 Colt in a single action revolver.

[Eric F]

.45 ACP in a semi-auto has about the same recoil as a .45 Colt in a single action revolver
Diffrence in weight maybe?

Any way there are many factors in felt recoil there is slide friction spring weights weight of the compaired guns ect. All weight equal the auto should feel slightly softer.

[SsevenN]

My feeling is the low bore axis auto loading handguns we are seeing now a days takes the cake.
Yes the slide does reduce felt recoil. But the low bore axis actually reduces pistol whip. Revolvers traditionally have very high bore axis, but I think they get a few points back because of the overall wieght and the forgiving distribution of it.....

[cmidkiff]

The ammo produces the recoil... same barrel length would produce exactly the same backwards force. How you perceive that force can be dramatically different.

If your revolver and auto were of the same caliber, weight, with the same grip size, shape, and material, and the same relationship from grip to barrel... the autoloader would have less felt recoil, since the same recoil impulse would be spread over a greater duration.

Since the above conditions are never true, it's much more subjective. How the gun fits your hand makes a huge difference. I find that revolvers are more comfortable, but that's just me!

[JohnnyGrey]

You end up dissipating all the recoil energy eventually. The revolver gives it to you all at once while the semi-auto spreads it over a few milliseconds.

[Lou22]

I own a Kahr PM9 9mm auto that weighs empty at 14oz, and a Taurus 905 snubby that is about 23oz. I've shot the same ammo out of both, and the PM9 is much easier to shoot, with less muzzle flip and apparent recoil. The 905 isn't bad though. I attribute the difference to a lower bore axis, the locked breech, a Hogue handall slip on grip and the polymer frame on the Kahr.

Lou

[1911Tuner]

The ammo produces the recoil... same barrel length would produce exactly the same backwards force.

The barrel length has little to do with recoil energy and momentum. 90% or more of the total recoil force occurs in the first half-inch or less of bullet travel.

Autoloaders...whether locked breech or blowback...deliver felt recoil through the recoil spring rather than with the explosion of the propellant...like with a fixed-breech revolver or single-shot pistol. The stronger the recoil spring, the sharper the recoil. The faster the slide compresses the spring...the sharper the recoil.

Then, there's the abrupt stop at the end of the slide travel that provides muzzle flip. The grip angle...the mass of the slide impacting the frame...the buffering provided by the recoil spring...all work alter this part of the felt recoil.

Remember that with an autopistol...the "gun" is the slide and barrel assembly. The frame is essentially a gun mount. If you had a frame with 30-foot rails and no recoil spring, you could fire the gun and feel virtually nothing in the way of recoil, other than possibly a slight disturbance from the friction between slide and frame.

As the slide compresses the recoil spring...or the action spring would probably be a more accurate term...the spring itself creates a vectored force between the slide and frame. As the slide compresses it, the spring tries to halt the slide by pushing forward on it. At the same time, the spring is pushing rearward on the frame. A simple action/reaction event that you feel as recoil.

[Teuthis]

I think that in matters of practical shooting, the difference in those calibers is negligable. One must teach oneself to ignore recoil and focus on the trigger. The trigger pull happens before recoil and again after it; but not during it. Recovery time could be affected for some crack shots. They might get more rounds off faster with lighter recoil. But for most folks it doesn't really matter, unless you cannot get past recoil. Then you will not shoot well with any handgun.

[xSTiNGx]

Is this to generally say that a heavier slide will make the recoil felt by the shooter seem less severe as opposed to a lighter slide, all other things being equal?

[1911Tuner]

Is this to generally say that a heavier slide will make the recoil felt by the shooter seem less severe as opposed to a lighter slide

Yes. Any time you have an increase in mass, you have a decrease in the rate of acceleration with a given force. With an autopistol...as noted...the recoil/action spring determines in large part how sharply the gun kicks. Increase the spring's load, and you get sharper recoil. Decrease the rate of that spring's compression, and you get softer recoil. Since the more massive slide is moving slower with a given cartridge...the spring compresses more slowly...and the recoil is spread out over a longer time frame. The total level of energy won't change enough to make a practical difference...but how hard it punches your hand does.

The other effect of felt recoil...with an autopistol...is in the slide striking the impact abutment in the frame. This is where the majority of the muzzle flip occurs. If you study Tripp's videos, you can see it clearly in the clip that doesn't have the gun anchored.

The frame doesn't move much until the slide has compressed the spring an inch or more. Then, just before the slide hits the frame...you can see the shooter has already started to bring the gun back down...nearly to the point that it was before firing it.

Then...as the slide hits the frame, the gun is jerked rearward and upward again. So, you have two separate, distinct recoil impulses that occur so close together that you can't feel the difference between the two...but if you slow the sequence down enough...you can see it happen.

[brigadier]

Kick is a very complex thing. First off, different people have different interpretations of kick. Those who think only by numbers tend to think of it as just the weight of the kick. The more practical folks (the ones who go by how comfortable the gun actually is to shoot) consider many subjects including weight, cushion/whiplash, speed etc.
One interesting factor that no one talks about is recoil time. This means, the longer the kick lasts for, the more weight delivered. It's sort of like punching someone. If someone punches you as hard as they can, but ceases force on contact, it doesn't move you much. If the same person throws the same punch but keeps up the full force for a full swing, you will most definitely move more. This is one of the reasons why slow burning powder loads tend to have more kick then fast burning powder loads. In semi-auto handguns, this, especially if done in conjunction with tight recoil springs, can mean more felt recoil from an Auto then the same load from an equal size and weight revolver. Of course, other configurations can make a semi-auto much lighter then a revolver.
More then anything, a revolver must depend on weight, balance and muzzle attachment/porting to reduce recoil. Autos have more means to work with. I personally think that this is the biggest difference between the two, at least in the recoil department. In other words, it's more then anything something that differs from gun to gun as opposed to action types.

[aka108]

I have a 1911 and a S&W 625 in 45 ACP. Don't know about all the recoil stuff but the wheel gun is more confortable shooting than the semi auto. At least that's the way it feels to me.

[Steve C]

The physics of the recoil is that it would be the same for both pistols as long as the pistol weights are identical. The semi auto extends the time of the recoil moment as the slide and action operate. This time factor is why semi auto's feel softer shooting.

The way the recoil is perceived by the shooter is quite subjective.

[1911Tuner]

The physics of the recoil is that it would be the same for both pistols as long as the pistol weights are identical.

Not exactly. The perceived recoil in an autopistol comes from several sources, while the fixed breech revolver only provides one if we ignore the effect of the bore's axis.

The clue to understanding it is that the recoil spring, slide, and frame are a separate action/reaction system...aside from the internal ballistic event that we understand creates the "kick" that we feel when we pull the trigger.

As the slide moves rearward, it compresses the spring...which fights to return the slide in the opposite direction. It accomplishes this by butting against the frame. Now you have the spring acting as a force vector between a pair of interacting objects. A separate, secondary closed action/reaction system.

The faster the slide moves, the faster it compresses the spring, and the harder to spring fights it. The thing about springs is that they work in both directions...like any other force vector. That means that it's pushing forward on the slide...and backward on the frame.

The stronger...more resistive the spring is...the harder it fights...and the sharper the recoil. Keep increasing the spring's load until the slide won't move, and you now have a fixed-breech pistol...and the recoil energy will be the same as in a revolver of identical weight. If the grip angle and bore axis are also identical...there would be no difference.

The next phase comes when the slide hits the frame's impact abutment...which is where the greatest percentage of what we know as "Muzzle Flip" comes from.
Add that to the fact that when the slide is full rearward, the center of gravity changes.

The faster the slide is moving when it strikes, the more it flips. The heavier the slide is at a given impact velocity, the more it flips the muzzle.

Autopistol felt recoil is a bit more complex than simple action/reaction between bullet and breechblock.