Let's keep it friendly SIG OPINIONS the THR way


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USMCDK
April 18, 2008, 07:43 PM
Hi every body (Voice of Dr. Nick)

Well the MODS and ADMINS did say that I could start up the thread again...

Originally posted by Stephen A. Camp

If it is resurrected in a new thread, fine, but let us please try and keep things at THR standards.

So that is what I am intending to do here...

So let us all please continue what we started just keep it polite.

Let us see the good and the bad, let us discuss why we feel that way and how to go about making things better.

I for one know that SIG is still a fairly respected company and in my opinion they make some really nice firearms.

Some like the beaver tail and some don't. Some like SRT and Like just the ST. The real questions at hand are why.

BTW this thread is not limited to just the questions I have ask, considering the title. OPINIONS

So let's get this underway shall we.

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Darthbauer
April 18, 2008, 08:08 PM
I love my 226 blackwater but was not a fan of the 220 I got and have since sold. I have had other full size .45's (1911's, USP and XD's) but just really didnt dig the 220 at all. Im not saying it was a bad gun, just saying it wasnt for me. As for people talking about extractor problems on the 220, does the 220 combat have a different extractor? Just asking because when I had mine, that thing chucked spent shells over 20 feet away.

wnycollector
April 18, 2008, 08:29 PM
The proud owner of two vintage SIGs (P220 and P226) plus a P6 on the way! The only auto' s I still own are SIGs...everything else is a revolver of various flavors.

USMCDK
April 18, 2008, 08:43 PM
Hey Stephen that was not funny LoL!!! I was scared for a minute there thinking the thread got locked or something, but realised it got moved.

The wierd questions is why in the Autoladers forum and nor general discussion??? I figured if I posted in a different forum room it would make things a lil better???

Please PM me if you can about this, thanks.

Oops sorry guys I got off topic... So how bout them yankee's I mean SIG's LOL!!!

Seriously though please continue.

jmr40
April 18, 2008, 08:53 PM
Sigs, Glocks, and 1911's are my favorite pistols. This month I prefer the Sig but next month it may be one of the others. I really can't make up my mind because I think they are all good.

I like my 226 a lot but probably would never pay full price for one. Mine was a CPO model. As good as it is I am not sure it is $250 better than a Glock.

JDGray
April 18, 2008, 09:09 PM
I like any gun that shoots straight for me:D CZs, Glocks, 1911s, and my one and only Sig 239. The thing I dont like about it(239) is the slide stop lever is right where I grip the gun, and it fails to lock open when its empty. But thats just me, if I dont grip it as high, it works fine. I shurly won't ever buy a new Sig:eek::)

USMCDK
April 18, 2008, 09:17 PM
I am thinkng about getting a p232 for the wifey. they are still made in Germany and sent here, but that might be changing, I AM NOT SURE SO DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT!!! thank you...

I think that the p232 would be a good choice for her to have as her HD/SD. I did look into the p239 but it's top heavey (well for her it would be) and I know from shopping around for her when we bought the walther that heavey weapons are not in her forta. So I definitly think the p232 is the way to go on that one. Any advise or opinions about that???

Wait don't answer that I will start a new thread so this one will stay on topic about SIG and not just one weapon system.

*Smiles*

Samuel Adams
April 18, 2008, 09:24 PM
My wife bought me a SP 2022 for Christmas. It was a fine shooter but the grip was a bit large for my hand, particularly with Double Action. For that reason only I sold it in order to buy a CZ.

AK103K
April 18, 2008, 09:31 PM
I am thinkng about getting a p232....
The P232 and its predecessor, the P230 are great pistols. Compared to the Walther PPK's, they are lighter and much more pleasant to shoot. Their DA triggers are usually very nice, and as with most SIG's, boringly accurate and reliable.

JDGray
April 18, 2008, 09:31 PM
It was a fine shooter but the grip was a bit large for my hand, particularly with Double Action.

The CZ has a terrible reach in DA, ever the P01 I just traded, with the recurved trigger. Still my favorite guns, however:)

Lonestar49
April 18, 2008, 09:58 PM
I am thinkng about getting a p232 for the wifey. they are still made in Germany and sent here, but that might be changing, I AM NOT SURE SO DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT!!! thank you...

I think that the p232 would be a good choice for her to have as her HD/SD.






...

As a matter of fact, I bought the below Sig P232 SL 380acp for the little lady and she never could bond with it.. The DA pull was way to hard for her little hands to pull "and control the gun". She was ok with the SA pulls, but did not like the little 380acp's snap/recoil, and found it very hard to rack the slide due to the much longer, stronger, return spring for its blow-back action.

Long story short, I was disappointed, but could tell she was not comfy with it, so I bought her a SA EMP 1911 9mm SAO 9+1 and she's a happy camper with the SAO, light, crisp, sharp, break of its trigger each, and every. pull, along with, a much softer return spring, and she can rack the slide with no problem.. Add to that the grip is a bit thinner, but longer, for more grip and support, along with the beaver-tail, as the straw that broke the camels back was when she somehow (I know how) got slide-bitten, once, with the P232

So, the P232 is up for sale, and she's confident with her more powerful, yet less snap/recoiling EMP 9mm, along with, its easy mags to load, and to get out with a side mag release button and pop the next one straight up and in. Unlike the P232's Euro bottom thumb-release mags and, one has to pull it out and, angle it, at first, in, before the mag will then, go up and in, straight..

Now the dirty part: the P232's blow-back action gets the gun and mags dirty quick, as in, after 230 rounds, I had to totally clean this gun, and the mags, every time or else, right after 230 rounds, she would start to jam once per mag from then on.. Due to dirty blow-back all over and within the gun..

Sigs aren't perfect for everyone but it did fire 100%. As has the EMP, thru 1400 rounds so far at 100%, along with 150 rounds of 124gr JHP's, and can easily go 800 rounds with just adding oil to the rails, vertical method, before I finally decide to clean it.. But I don't let it go quite that long, as I keep round counts on all my guns, and they get total cleanings at around 600 rounds, give or take.


Ls


Both are so good lookin.. Yumm, one just shoots more rounds per mag, with more punch, caliber/weight-wise, and the SAO trigger is sweet.. and 9mm is so much more, "cost effective" when it comes to buying ammo by the case.


http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc306/Lonestar49/Picture150.jpg

USMCDK
April 18, 2008, 10:12 PM
Lonestar49 that's you and your (American?) German Shepard??? in the background???

BTW PM me the details about your p232.

Mods and Admins please move Lonestar49's post over to my other thread http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=357118

It would be more appropriate there, seeing how that thread is all about my last post, and keep this thread on track with the original post. Thank you Mods/Admins and to you as well Lonestar49 I am sure you will understand.

USMCDK

Lonestar49
April 18, 2008, 10:29 PM
...

I'm ok with it IF they can do it, but I kind of think it may not be possible, but it is Sig related.. lol

And, sadly, yep that's me at 50yrs with my American Shepherd, 8yrs old, who at the time of that great shot of him, he was less than 3 months away (which I knew) from me having to put him down due to the Cancer that was Operated on, but only bought us the best last 5 months together until Sept 16, 2000.. and he looked just as good as that when that Black day came.. If only there was anything more I could have done.. but not.

PM will be sent..



Ls

The Lone Haranguer
April 18, 2008, 10:42 PM
The good: The older, German-made "classic" P-series are outstandingly accurate (in slow fire) and reliable. New-production ones based on the "classic" design should be of equal quality. And their customer service is very good (but unfortunately for the wrong reasons; see below).


The bad: none of them ever fit my hands well and I was unable to shoot well with them. And, the quality does not extend to their 1911s. One I bought in early 2007 malfunctioned and shed parts (I'm not kidding; firing pin safety parts flew off the gun) to the point where they replaced it for me. But then the replacement one broke. After the repair - although it seems to have the bugs out of it and has performed well - I put it on consignment ... this was three months ago and it still has not sold. I am afraid its reputation may have preceded it.

Stephen A. Camp
April 18, 2008, 10:51 PM
If a single post can be moved to another thread, I'm not aware of it. I know that a whole thread can as I've done it. Interested parties can follow your link.

USMCDK
April 18, 2008, 10:53 PM
Very well sir thank you.

Samuel Adams
April 18, 2008, 10:57 PM
The CZ has a terrible reach in DA, ever the P01 I just traded, with the recurved trigger. Still my favorite guns, however
That's why I bought the Single Action version of the 75B. :D Back to Sigs, I might like to try the P220 SA one of these days.

1BLINDREF
April 19, 2008, 12:23 AM
Opinions of Sigs.

I'm a big fan of Sigs. I have a bunch and I'm always looking to add.
I just added a P229ST to my "collection" and I'm waiting for the call from my FFL to pick up a P226ST coming from a vender on the Sig Forum.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t307/dexternikki/Sigs/IMG_3299.jpg

I bought my first Sig, a new P228 back in 1995. From that point on I was hooked. A new P220 followed about 2 weeks later. I loved the balance and craftsmanship that went into them.

IMHO, todays Sigs are still very good guns.
While I'm not a big fan of the new "bling" style guns or the tailed guns, I don't knock Sig for bringing them out. I think that bringing out railed guns made sense because of all of their competitors offer them. I only wish that they would have also continued to produce them without rails.

I understand that business is business and they are in it to survive and make money. I simply don't buy the "bling" style Sigs, but to each his own.

I do like the SASs and the DAK trigger system. My two main CCWs are a P239 SAS 9mm and a P229 .40S&W DAK.

Stamped slides vs milled slides.
OK - the big Sig debate. Which is better?
Me, I like them both. I have quite a few of each.

I believe that the milled slide was necessary to hold up to the higher presures of the .40S&W and the .357sig round.
I liked the fact that Sig was the last of the mfgs to chamber a gun in .40S&W. Sig re-designed their slide to a milled solid block of steel.
Others simply used their 9mm platforms and put heavier springs and a barrel with a bigger hole in it. They didn't hold up too well.

I do like the balance of the stamped slide Sigs better than their more top heavy milled slide brothers.
I shoot IDPA with a "KA" code P226. I really like the way it points and the way it comes up on the targets so naturally.
The P228 is simply a work of art. I own and have shot many other mfgs 9mms and I've yet to find a better shooting 9mm.
Of course, YMMV :)

"To Hell and back reliability"
This is where Sig appears to be having some issues that they didn't have back in the day. I'm sure we hear many more stories because of these Forums.
It's human nature to tell "everybody" when they've had a bad experience, and only a few when they've had a good one.

There is no doubt that certain new Sigs have some issues. P220 extractors and also feeding problems are well documented. CPO guns that have their finishes flaking off. Loose sights and stripped grip screws to name a few other problems that I've read about.
Sig is aware of these and they seem to take care of most of the problem guns. It's ashame that their reputation for building high quality guns is suffering because of these problems.

Personally, I've only had to send one new Sig back to the factory. It was a new P226 (with a rail :rolleyes: ) Sig had to replace the hammer and sear. It was fixed and returned in 9 working days.
I can't even begin to guess how many total rounds that I've shot through all of my Sigs over the past 13 years. I think that only having had one problem in all that time is pretty good.

IMHO, it is a sign of the times that we live in. The more high tech we become, the more potential for problems. In general, I don't think that todays workers take the same pride in their work as in the past. Just take a look at the automotive industry and newly built houses :scrutiny:
How many products have you said "They don't make them the way they used to" about?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a kool-aid drinker and I don't think that Sig should get a free pass, I just think that is the way things are now.

The other problem is that Sigs QC wasn't what it should have been a few years back. I don't know if it was because of all the new product that they were trying to put out, or the numbers they were trying to make. I just hope they are doing a better job today.

So to sum it up, I have had very good luck with Sigs. They fit me well and point very naturally for me, that's why I like and buy them.

Sorry for the long post - but you did ask for my opinion :p

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t307/dexternikki/Sigs/IMG_3291.jpg

DougDubya
April 19, 2008, 12:52 AM
No "honest man" needs three P239's and two P5's.

I can help make you an honest man, though - mail them to...

Just kidding. Beautiful collection. As always, I'm jealous.

hankdatank1362
April 19, 2008, 12:55 AM
Lonestar, I apologize for a brief off-topic question, but may I inquire as to how big that Germie was?

and REF, I love that 229 ST!

lvcat2004
April 19, 2008, 01:08 AM
1BLINDREF, my hatred toward you just increased a tad bit :evil:

I'm got my P6 on the way, however....;)

Lonestar49
April 19, 2008, 03:55 AM
Lonestar, I apologize for a brief off-topic question, but may I inquire as to how big that Germie was?
...

Sure Hank, since all my German Shepherds have been pure Sig quality dogs.. lol, we're close on subject matter here..

That was RC, named after my first, (boy) and biggest GS, Rickman, who was by definition, of his huge size and weight, in his prime, of 139lbs and could run 37mph, a pocket-battleship. And after Cutter (our 2nd boy) Ricks, reincarnated spirit, who was a mere 108lbs, and a cruiser.. But RC, our/my 3rd boy, was the best of both their spirits combined, and was a heavy cruiser, at 118lbs.

But then, by the time that shot was taken, and me at 50yrs, I had shrunk a 1/2" in height, and down to 150lbs at 5'10".. so I'm small and RC's head was BIG.. as was his heart..

It's my biggest heartache of life, out-living them all, and our most recent loss of our last, boy, GS, Bear, some 6 - 7 months ago, also to Cancer, also at the age of 8-9yrs..

Bear was the worst-case-scenario, as somebody trained him for one thing, and one thing only.. protection. And it took me 3yrs to get him to understand "family and friends".. but he was always in his world of protect and defend, and it was sad, as he never knew, or wanted to learn, what a ball was, and to fetch it and have fun, it just never made any sense to him for the many times I kept trying over the years. And when that boy fell asleep, I could fall down the stairs and over him, and he wouldn't wake up.. lol, he was OUT. But if someone knocked on our door, or he heard a car drive up.. the house walls moved by his roars/barking.. He was just wound up a bit too tight, and he knew it, and lived for it, and for my wife, myself, and the immediate family members and our close friends..

All were rescued German Shepherds (one way or another) or from the pounds and shelters around here. And, all were around 2-3yrs of age with the exception of Rickman. Rick was only 2 at the most, but he lived for another 14yrs.. to 16yrs of full life and set the standard for all that followed and not one, ever, failed that standard.. all gave 100%

I have no doubts why Dogs (all breeds) are considered man's best friend..

Kinda how I feel about my Sig guns.. they, all 4 of them, have been 100% as well. And, they are there for us/me, rdy, if needed, and I trust them all the way..

This man's second best friends..



Ls

RobertFBurnett
April 19, 2008, 04:05 AM
When I started on this site I had just broken up with my fiance, and wanted to re-enter the hobby I had before my relationship which was shooting. Durring the course of our relationship I had sold off a few pieces to pay the bills, and when I came on I wanted to replace my 686, so I asked some questions, and got great informed answers, and replaced my 686.

What does this have to do with SIG you ask? Well you were all so helpful with my 686 that your advice helped me narrow down a new auto to being a 226 9mm.

I saw it online, and I liked it, I rented one in .40, and I liked it, I bought one new, and I love it! I put 500 rounds through it and countless dry fire w/ snap-caps to break it in, and I love it, I put SIG logo CT grips on it, and love it, and this afternoon I put on a Bedair guide rod, and it still feels Great!!! My first SIG has been awesome, it just feels so right to me. Cannot wait to strap on a TLR-1 to the rail.

A 220 ST and a 229 40/357 are the next ones I am keeping my eyes open for. I am a dedicated SIG man.

Respectfully,

RFB

nero45acp
April 19, 2008, 06:29 AM
I've owned 3 SIGs. A P220 9mm, a P225, and a P226ST. I put many thousands of rounds through them with only one failure. (The trigger bar spring on my P225 broke after about 4-5K rds, and SIG sent me a new one free of charge.) I have other centerfire handguns that I prefer over the SIGs (Beretta 92SB-C Type M & S&W 15), but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a one.


nero

JDGray
April 19, 2008, 07:53 AM
1BLINDREF, I now hate you,in a friendly way of course:D

Beautiful collection!!!!:cool:

rellascout
April 19, 2008, 09:24 AM
1BLINDREF,

Where is the P210?

Nice collection. Looking at the picture it appears you have real P225s not P6s is that correct? Are they W. German or assembled at Exeter?

rellascout
April 19, 2008, 09:27 AM
IHMO 380 autos are terrible gns for new shooters or people who don't shoot very often. The block back design of the 380 auto coming right back into the hand. they kick harder IMHO then 9mm.

They are fine guns but tons of the them are bought for the wife and tons are re-sold because the wife does not like the kick. A smaller 9mm is a much better choice.

Janos Dracwlya
April 19, 2008, 09:49 AM
I have owned a Sig P225 for almost seven years - and it has been my primary carry gun since I bought it. It has never had any problems with accuracy or reliability, it fits my hands like it was made for me. The only thing I can say against it is that there are double stack guns that are the same size or very nearly so - like my Hi-Power and my wife's FNP9M.

I briefly owned a P226 with night sights and it was by far the best gun I have ever owned. I used it for 3-Gun and as soon as I started using it, my scores went up; I practically couldn't miss with it. No, I'm serious. Like it's smaller brother, it was totally reliable the whole time I had it. I parted with it for personal reasons, not because of any issue with the gun; quite the opposite, really.

rellascout
April 19, 2008, 10:00 AM
I am a huge Sig fan. I have had or still have tons of them.

P228 X2
P225 (not P6)
P239
P226 Tactical
P226 Navy NSW Serial number
P220 X 2
P220 SAS
Sig GSR 1911

Unfortunately they are not the company they used to be. They are not the old German company that produced the classic P series guns. Instead they are a mix of Kimber execs running a new gun company Sig Sauer which is leveraging the older German made P series products. The Kimberazation of Sig is sad to see. It makes be sad to see it change for the worse.SigArms is Sig Sauer now. They simply changed the name recently. SigArms has existed since about 1985 when they were in Tysons Corner, VA. They were a quality company as Sigarms up until about 2004 or so when they started to be a manufacturer versus and importer of Sig Pistols.The new company is now run by the gentleman who ran Kimber a few years ago. You might remember that. Kimber went from a very good small company making nice 1911s to a massive producer of average 1911 pistols. Customer service and product quality suffered as they focused on sales not the product itself. Many of these new products have had issues as soon as they hit the market. The GSR, Misquito, 556 rifle and current P220 are all examples.

The GSR had well known teething problems. I own one and love it but do not dicount the fact that they were and still are some what it or miss. The new Sig offering are very ornate. They are a stark contrast from the older P series pistols that they built their reputation on.

The mosquito is made by a airsoft gun company made out of a Zinc slide and will not feed anything but the most expensive 22LR ammo out there. Also the trigger sucks. It feels like well and airsoft pistol.

The 556 rifle has been a great dissapointment for many long time Sig fans. Many of the most avid Sig fans are disappointed. They released the rifle at SHOT 2006. They looked promising. Not quite a 550 but they still had time to get it right. Then once it got to market it had the same price point but no iron sights. When the Iron sights came out they were crap not Swiss dopplers that people wanted. The front light and foregrip they are selling looks like it was made in China, which it was by an outsourced vendor.

If you upgrade to the $2000 SWAT rilfe you get a $75 C-more sight. I cannot believe Sig put a POS C-more on gas piston rifle. What a joke. Not only that if you were lucky enough to get an early one you got an unintentional tutone rifle with a canted rail so when you mount your optics of choice you still can't shoot straight. Now most of the canted rails ans finish issues have been corrected but almost 1 out of every 10 rifles were going back to the factory at one point.

The P220 has well know extractor issues. These have been occurring since they got rid of all the carbon steel slides and replaced them with milled stainless steel. FTF and FTE are now common problems associated with the P220. The majority are good pistols but if you are putting out thousands a month and about 5% have issues that's lot of problems for someone who claims "HELL AND BACK RELIABLILTY."

My main issues with the P220 is that Sig denies there is a problem. They deny that there is a design issue yet they have moved to new external extractor design. So which is it? The P220 is perfect as it is, which is what Bill Silver the VP of commercial sales told me or does it need a redesign which is now featured on P220 Elites.

Now for the good. The P250s look like an interesting pistol with forward thinking design. There have been issues here and there. Seem to remember an issue with the modular firing control fitting in the frame and binding on at least one shooter but nothing systemic. I have not see any real issues that are repeated over and over again. They are new so you have to take that into account. People have not really put them through their paces yet.

I was not a fan of the trigger. I am not a big polymer guy but I understand and appreciate the concept. I think that this is the future of guns. It is a lot like the Blaser, Sigs high end Rifles, concept. Technically its one gun. a Single frame which can accommodate multiple calibers. By switching parts. You could literally carry one frame 3 barrels mags etc... and have three pistols.

You can even expand that to different frame sizes. I personally don't have a need for it because I shoot 9mm and 45 only and my needs are met by other guns which soot me better but the concept is great. I would wait to get one. The price is not going up in the next year and there will be a lot more feedback in 6 to 9 months then there is today.

Those who love Sig and have loved them for a long time understand that change is happening and that thing are not going to stay the same but the one thing that should be constant is the quality of one product.

AK103K
April 19, 2008, 10:00 AM
The only thing I can say against it is that there are double stack guns that are the same size or very nearly so....
This is the case with the high cap SIG's too. The P226, P228, and P229 are all very similar to the P225/P6, and you probably couldnt tell them apart if you were handed one of each with your eyes closed.

SIG also has some funny ideas as to what "compact" is. Other than the P230, none of their models are really all that different in size when compared side by side in person.

MustangHowie
April 19, 2008, 10:18 AM
I bought my first SIG in 2005. It was a beat up P226 JJ code(1988) from CDNN that they tried to remove the finish to make a 2 tone. In the process the slide was pitted. I bought it for $300, I figured it was a cheap way to try SIG since I didn't know anything about them. The first time I shot it I was hooked. It was the most accurate 9mm I have ever shot. I then bought a new slide for it to replace the pitted slide. Since then I have bought several more and I have never had a single problem with any of them.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd143/MustangHowie/Sigs.jpg

AK103K
April 19, 2008, 10:42 AM
Unfortunately they are not the company they used to be.
This can be said for just about all of them, not just SIG.

The mosquito is made by a airsoft gun company made out of a Zinc slide and will not feed anything but the most expensive 22LR ammo out there. Also the trigger sucks. It feels like well and airsoft pistol.
While I agree, the trigger on them isnt what you'd normally expect, its actually better than the P6 imports trigger, and they are "old school" guns. I've owned my Mosquito since they first arrived, as have some of my friends. None of us have encountered the feeding or ammo issues your speaking of, I just shoot plain old Winchester Super X out of mine, and occasionally anything else available. No troubles at all. I also have an early Walther P22, and its been just like the Mosquito, a reliable, fun little gun.

The 556 rifle has been a great dissapointment for many long time Sig fans.
Hey, I'd love to have a 550 (and even better, a 551) too, and wish I'd bought one when I had a chance, but I'm not spending the money on what they command today. I dont yet have a 556, as I'm waiting for them to maybe come out with a fixed stock version, but from what I've seen, and from talking to a friend that has one, they seem to be decently made and finished.

The P220 has well know extractor issues. These have been occurring since they got rid of all the carbon steel slides and replaced them with milled stainless steel. FTF and FTE are now common problems associated with the P220.
I guess I didnt get the word. I have three P220's, two older models and a P220 Carry. I got the P220 Carry when they first came out. Never had a bobble with it. It works just like the old ones and shoots just as good too.


I have not see any real issues that are repeated over and over again.
The problem here is, many of these "issues" are not issues at all, just occasional glitches or a bad gun here and there (all makers do have them), but with the internet, everyone is an expert, even on guns they dont own, but "heard" so much about that its just as good as owning one.

There is so much misinformation passed on as truth, that it becomes very hard to know what is or isnt. The only way to know for sure, it to buy what your interested in and shoot the hell out of it. If its a dog, you'll soon know, and then you'll be starting to have a right to bitch. You really dont get to have a full right until that same gun has been repaired numerous times or you've bought numerous models and had the same issue.

As I said before, ALL makers will have an issue with some gun in their lines at some point. I know this to be a fact, because I've bought more than my share of big name guns that were noting but trouble. So far, SIG is one of the few I'm staying with until something turns otherwise.

Those who love Sig and have loved them for a long time understand that change is happening and that thing are not going to stay the same but the one thing that should be constant is the quality of one product.
So far from what I've seen of the newer guns, and I have six or seven of them now, is that it their quality appears to be just as good as the older models, and in some respects superior.

Change is always going to be hard for some people and no matter what, they wont like it, even if it was for the better. Oh well, thats life. If you have an issue, cal them up and bitch and at least give them first shot at explaining why and maybe address your's (and other's) concerns. If they dont come around, find something else. There's plenty out there, and very often at more money for a lesser product. But the only way you'll know that, is to wade through them. Been there, done that, taking a breather now. :)

1BLINDREF
April 19, 2008, 11:19 AM
Nice collection. Looking at the picture it appears you have real P225s not P6s is that correct? Are they W. German or assembled at Exeter?

Thanks for all of the kind words and the hatred.....lol :neener:

Yes they are both P225s (non P6)
One is a "JE" (1984) code Tysons Corner W.German (the one with the Pachymeyer grips) and the other is an "AC" (2002) code Exeter, NH.
Both are excellent shooters and the quality appears to be the same.

Where is the P210?

I never had a desire to own one, but I wish that I would have bought one back in the 90's when they were a more realistic price. I've never shot one and I don't think that I want too. I'd be affraid that I would like it too much and then I'd have a problem :uhoh: ...lol

SIG also has some funny ideas as to what "compact" is. Other than the P230, none of their models are really all that different in size when compared side by side in person.
How true.
I wish they'd come out with a true compact. I'm not a big fan of the .380 and IMHO, the P230/P232 is close enough in size a weight to a P239.
I'd much rather carry a P239 in 9mm or .40S&W with the American mag release than a P230/P232 with the Euro heal type mag release.

2ndamd
April 19, 2008, 01:17 PM
I like SIG but, their trigger reset is awful long.
Maybe the new DAK triggers will be better?

Old Dog
April 19, 2008, 01:44 PM
I like SIG but, their trigger reset is awful long.Then, simply send your SIG to the factory to get the short-trigger-reset package (or is it "short-reset-trigger," can't remember ... actually, believe now you can order the assembly and have your local 'smith install it.

My two cents: I firmly believe that if you're a fan of the .40 S&W cartridge, then you should know that the P-226 in .40 is the perfect package for that round ... And if you're gonna carry a 9mm, then the old W. German P-228 is the pistol for one, the perfect blend of ergonomics (feels great in the hand for most hand sizes, superb balance and points well), gun size to magazine capacity ration (compact enough to conceal well, 15+1 w/Mec-Gars) ...

SIGs for me have always been, hands-down, the most reliable (never had one malfunction, ever) and accurate (out of the box/factory produced) semi-autos I've owned in almost a half-century of firearms ownership ...

AK103K
April 19, 2008, 01:54 PM
Then, simply send your SIG to the factory to get the short-trigger-reset package...
Or just shoot the dang gun and dont sweat the small stuff. :)

I never knew there were so many little things I was doing wrong while shooting until there was the internet. It just amazes me I'm not supposed to be able to shoot well with a box stock DA/SA SIG, or a box stock Colt, or a box stock anything for that matter, without all sorts of added gizmos or fancy trigger massages.

Erik
April 19, 2008, 03:37 PM
My opinion of Sigs?

Sig has carved out an admirable niche in the firearms market, with a reputation for producing quality arms and repeatedly landing sought after military and LEO contracts. That said, Sig has detractors, but show me a company or design that does not.

serrano
April 19, 2008, 04:07 PM
I love my P6 - it was born in '86 and I just put 1000 rounds down it in the last 2 months with no issues what-so-ever. I'm currently lusting after a p229r.

rellascout
April 19, 2008, 04:43 PM
The problem here is, many of these "issues" are not issues at all, just occasional glitches or a bad gun here and there (all makers do have them), but with the internet, everyone is an expert, even on guns they dont own, but "heard" so much about that its just as good as owning one.

There is so much misinformation passed on as truth, that it becomes very hard to know what is or isnt. The only way to know for sure, it to buy what your interested in and shoot the hell out of it. If its a dog, you'll soon know, and then you'll be starting to have a right to bitch. You really dont get to have a full right until that same gun has been repaired numerous times or you've bought numerous models and had the same issue.

As I said before, ALL makers will have an issue with some gun in their lines at some point. I know this to be a fact, because I've bought more than my share of big name guns that were noting but trouble. So far, SIG is one of the few I'm staying with until something turns otherwise.

While I agree to an extent there are many issues that are well documented that are not simply one bad gun. The canted rails on the 556 is a perfect example. They were screwing up almost 1 in every 20. That is not bad gun here or there.

You statement is a contraction. The issues that I have brought up are not single instances. The GSR was hit or miss when it first came out. ALL Sig enthusiast know that. The 556 has serious problems with rails, finish and fit. The mosquito is a problem gun for Sig even today. It is not even made by Sig yet people are paying Sig prices for them. The P22 about on par with the Sig but costs about $100 less.

The same is the case with the P220 extractor. Its not one every now and then. There are so many documented cases of FTF right out the box on a regular basis. The concept that one should pay $800+ for a new Sig pistol and then find out if its a dog is absurd IMHO. The reason you are paying $800+ for a Sig is so you don't have to deal with that crap. It should not only be an issue after multiple returns. It is an issue right out of the box since they knew about the design problems before they shipped the guns.

Just because other companies are cheapening their product and lowering their standards does not mean all good companies should. Should Sig jmp off the bridge just because the other companies are? The worst part about it to me is that Sig prices are going up while the overall quality is going down.

As for the P6 comment I assume that you know the difference between a P225 and a P6. Most people don't. The trigger on the P6 was intentionally heavy. The German police asked for them that way. The DA is almost ridiculously heavy. All you have to do is put a P225 main spring in it and it will lighten up quite a bit.

I also agree with the other poster that stated that the Sig reset is longer than necessary. I would recommend sending it to Gray Guns instead of Sig. For about $100 more you will get much better results. The factory work is hit or miss. Depends on who pulls your gun out the que. I have had a gun with the AEP service done on it that was great. I have had others that were not so great.

Detachment Charlie
April 19, 2008, 06:01 PM
I never understood the whole Sig mystique. That is until I couldn't pass-up one of those P6's that are dirt cheap now. Got it. Shot it. Before the end of the first magazine, I understood. :cool:
I also knew about some of the quality issues with the newer Sigs. So, I bought an older, used P220. It just keeps getting better.
The DA trigger is like rolling through one of my older S&Ws. The SA isn't up to my 1911, but much better than my XD45.

AK103K
April 19, 2008, 06:17 PM
The 556 has serious problems with rails, finish and fit.
Since I dont own one, all I can say is, of the half dozen or so I've personally handled, they all seemed to be well made, and well finished. I didnt notice that the rails were canted, not that I was really looking, but if they were, it wasnt obvious. Next time I run into my buddy, I'll have to see how he's making out and if things are any different.

The mosquito is a problem gun for Sig even today. .................. The P22 about on par with the Sig but costs about $100 less.
Just curious, but how many of either have you personally been through to know for a fact that this is the case? Besides myself, I know probably close to eight or ten people who have one or both and used to shoot with them on a fairly regular basis, and no one was complaining of all these so called problems. Usually when you see the threads bitching about them, when you weed out who owns them and who doesnt, the list of complainers goes down considerably.

As far as what they cost and who makes them, who cares? Where else can you find a gun that is similar to what you shoot big bore in small bore? I really didnt think the cost was all that bad for either. From what I've seen, they have actually come down some in price.

The same is the case with the P220 extractor. Its not one every now and then. There are so many documented cases of FTF right out the box on a regular basis. The concept that one should pay $800+ for a new Sig pistol and then find out if its a dog is absurd IMHO. The reason you are paying $800+ for a Sig is so you don't have to deal with that crap. It should not only be an issue after multiple returns. It is an issue right out of the box since they knew about the design problems before they shipped the guns.
Again, I have to ask, how many of the new so called problematic P220's do you or have you personally owned that were a problem? If so, was the problem addressed by SIG, or are they still a problem?

I've owned a number of guns guns from just about every major maker out there, and some have a lot more issues than others, but sooner or later,they ALL have an issue with something. When those issues start being continual, either because they were not fixed or successive guns were also a problem, then I dont buy them any more. If thats the case with you and SIG, then I'd move on.

All I can say for me is, I havent "personally" encountered any of the problems you keep bringing up with those guns that I actually own, so until I do, I'll be skeptical. Like I said, I've seen a lot of people who never owned and probably never even shot the guns they were bitching about and bad mouth them at every possible opportunity. If you personally have had issues that were not or cant be addressed, then you have a right to bitch, if not, you really have nothing useful to add.

As for all the crying over what SIG has changed that you dont like, you either have to get over it or move on. If they do in fact have issues with a couple of models, then I'm sure they are being addressed, and if they arent, dont buy them. Its as simple as that. My newer model SIG's, while ever so slightly different looks wise, have worked and shot just like my older model SIG's. when they stop doing that, I'll look for a maker that will accomadte me.

I've been there with a bunch of other makers before and some I lived with, because they changes were cosmetic, and didnt do anything to affect the guns working, and were easily enough remedied to my satisfaction, although they were annoying to me. Colts specifically were my issue, with their plastic parts on later guns, etc. The thing with the Colts was, they worked out of the box for the most part, just like SIG, old or new, and there were always the purist complainers going off about how far Colt had fallen. The bitch of it was, Springfields and Kimbers, no matter how fancy looking or supposedly impressive they were, they were not as reliable or shootable out of the box as the Colts.

Just because other companies are cheapening their product and lowering their standards does not mean all good companies should.
This is merely your personal opinion. Some may like where SIG,or any of the others have gone. They obviously have been trying to address what people seem to want, just by the number of new models they have been making (as well as some of the discontinued models), even if those things are not to your liking. Again, if you dont like it, just move on. Being bitter about it (and its pretty obvious by your posts your bitter about it), wont make you (or us) feel any better, unless of course, you like feeling that way. If so, by all means, carry on.

As for the P6 comment I assume that you know the difference between a P225 and a P6.
I know the difference. Both of my P6's have the P225's mainspring in them and they both now have a DA trigger that compares to all my other guns. Other than that, there is really little difference between them, at least functionally wise. But then again, theres the "purist" angle.....

As far as trigger reset, I still think thats a shooter issue and not a gun issue. Most all the "upgrades" people seem to "need" are usually the shooters problem or crutches and not the guns fault. Some things, like the P6's triggers do need addressing, but for the most part, if you cant shoot a gun as it comes out of the box, (unless its a defect) its usually not the guns fault.

Personally, I dont believe in messing with the basic function of the gun. Once you do, you pretty much always cause yourself problems down the road. You also become more hooked on the need for the crutches. They spend millions of dollars in R&D and tooling, but theres always someone out there with some sort of fix, who knows better, and probably wants to sell you something.

Sylvan-Forge
April 19, 2008, 07:34 PM
IHMO 380 autos are terrible gns for new shooters or people who don't shoot very often. The block back design of the 380 auto coming right back into the hand. they kick harder IMHO then 9mm.

They are fine guns but tons of the them are bought for the wife and tons are re-sold because the wife does not like the kick. A smaller 9mm is a much better choice.

Indeed, quite the snap from the little beasts.


.

rellascout
April 19, 2008, 08:36 PM
Okay so by your logic if it does not personally happen to you then it does not matter? If you do not own one then the problems are not real? If it did not happen right infront of you it must not have happened.

I do not own a Mosquito. I have looked at them and really wanted one but in the end the horrible trigger and the horrible reports on them just about everywhere made me look elsewhere. I mean seriously look around for a minute. Look at the Sig forum.

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/4721089321

Very mixed results from owners.

Lets compare them to a Buckmark

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/3611093801?r=9941044801#9941044801

I am not saying everyone of them will suck I am saying that a good number of people are having issues and have given up on them. Others are simply living with the issues/

As for the P220 the two W. German P220 functioned without issue. My P220 SAS Failed to Feed right out of the box. I could not get through 75 rounds before I gave up. It went back to Sig and I will have to wait 2 weeks to tell if they fixed it.

After a very long conversation with customer service and Mr. Bill Silver I have decieded not to buy another Sig product made in the USA ever again. Mr. Silver bit the hand that feeds him. He is the VP of commercial sales and basically bad mouthed the online Sig community. Once I posted and released details of this conversation I have received countless emails regarding the P20 problem. My in box was full of people with similar experiences. Some people got their gun fixed the first time. Others send it back multiple times. Others simply dumped them onto some one else. One of my favorite recent Sig gaffes is the one where they lost a guys defective pistiol, CPO and replaced it will a different CPO, which they shipped with rusted mags and a barrel which looked like it had been dropped on concrete and touched up with black marker. Nothing else for his 3 months of no pistol.

Now lets keep this thread above board. I am not crying over what SIG is putting out and it appears that yet another thread is going the way of personal attacks.

As for Sig addressing the issues Sig denies them. People are having issues and Sig is denying them while at the same time redesigning the extractor. I see that as a major contradiction.

Again you attempt to make it about me not Sig by stating things like. Again, if you dont like it, just move on. Being bitter about it (and its pretty obvious by your posts your bitter about it), wont make you (or us) feel any better, unless of course, you like feeling that way. If so, by all means, carry on.


Have I attacked you personally? Have I told you want to post about. The more I post my opinion based on what I know to be the truth and what I have experienced the more defensive you get. You then resort to baseless ad hominem attacks.

Getting back to the guns Sig makes the P6 is a different gun then the P225 in many ways.

First thing you will notice upon comparing the P225 to the P6 is that the trigger is thicker, straighter and less ergonomics than even sigs standard (as in non-short) trigger.

The barrels on the many P6's don't reliably feed hollow points, which is why the most popular mod for a p6 is a 225 factory barrel. This is manily with older ones so it is important to check the date of manufacture of any P6 you are getting for self defense. The German police shot ball ammo not hollow points.

Next the trigger spring is 3-4 pounds heavier in both modes and you should change a trigger spring and the main spring to help smooth is out and lighten it a bit.

I forgot to mention the hammer difference. The P6 hammer has notch cut into it so that it the German Police smiths new if it was dropped.
Most Sig will deliver a much better out of the box trigger than the P6. You wont find a P6 that gets close to a standard production trigger from a 225 IMHO, without these modifications.

As for custom gun smithing by Sig or anyone else I think for certain guns it is a good thing. It offers shooters who desire it a more refined pistol then any factory assembly line can offer. Almost all makers offer "custom sop" pistols that have extra attention paid to them. An after factory smith is doing nothing more than that. Not all people will need or desire this extra attention.

In the end let keep talking about Sig. All I am going to ask is that we keep it about Sig. Stop the petty little personal digs. Stop taking comments about Sig Sauer personally and stop your ad hominem attacks.

caltek1911
April 19, 2008, 08:52 PM
I first shot a rental Sig back in 2006 and didn't like it. Not sure of the model. Then I rented a P229 last year while checking various models in .40 and was hooked. One of the guys at the local store knew I was checking out Sigs and when I walked in looking for cleaning supplies after renting it I wound up buying a used P229 .40 in excellent condition that someone turned in for christmas cash. Sig told me that from the s/n, it was made in 1993. Great gun, and I'll be on the lookout for anymore at a good price.

76817

2nd 41
April 19, 2008, 09:39 PM
My 230SL is a very fine pistol.

rellascout
April 19, 2008, 09:41 PM
They are great little guns. I just never warmed up to the .380 auto.

Beautiful looking gun.

http://www.discovershooting.net/pics/p230silver_sm.jpg

Stephen A. Camp
April 19, 2008, 09:56 PM
No problems so far with the thread but as is sadly the case, the potential is there and already visible.

Please do not step over the line. You know what the line is and where it is if you've spent any time at all at THR.

If you do cross it after the problems mentioned in this resurrected thread's predecessor, and the disclaimer put up by the OP on this one, you will know it when you find yourself permanently banned.

Again, no one's crossed any lines and everyone's fine so please do not PM me asking if you've done anything wrong. It's hard typing with fractures in one hand and I'm just not inclined to do it any more than is necessary for a few days. Besides, we're supposed to be adults here and the rules do not require a degree in nuclear physics to understand.

Just a friendly heads up before anyone blows up.

I am determined to see at least one of these threads continue w/o the rather needlessly argumentative approaches taken by some ruining it for everyone.

AK103K
April 19, 2008, 10:23 PM
Okay so by your logic if it does not personally happen to you then it does not matter? If you do not own one then the problems are not real? If it did not happen right infront of you it must not have happened.
#1, well, yea, thats about right. Kind of selfish, huh? :) #2, if you dont own one that is a problem, then your information is all basically hearsay, and your simply relating something youve heard. I never said there were not problems, simply that many of the problems are more often just repeated hearsay, and not actual experience, and tend to get blown out of proportion. #3, not at all, but it would be nice if the person putting it forth was at least the person who had the difficulties, and was giving a first hand account. If a small group of people in a room cant get the story straight, hows it work on the world wide web? A simple malfunction due to a bad reload turns into the whole line was damned by the devil, and you got it first hand from him, right? Well, his sisters first husbands second wife who drives by their factory and saw the monkees (the singing ones) making them out back, anyway. :rolleyes:

If there is a problem, I'd certainly like to hear your personal troubles with whatever was the problem, just not the "theres a bazillion posts over at.... and they all said that...."

Now lets keep this thread above board. I am not crying over what SIG is putting out and it appears that yet another thread is going the way of personal attacks.
By all means, lets keep it above board. Lets also try and keep things real and leave the hearsay and drama out of all this. If you promise to do that, I'll promise to try and not hurt your feelings.

Stephen A. Camp
April 19, 2008, 10:36 PM
Take the personal complaints about each other to the PM's or let it go; I do not care which but do not continue this argument over how or what to post or its relevancy in your opinion on this thread. Having to have the last word could so easily (at this point) really be the last word as a member here.

rellascout
April 19, 2008, 10:44 PM
When you read he posts you can do all the research from there. You can talk with your favorite dealers. You ask your favorite sellers who move thousands upon thousands of Sigs a year.

When I read stuff I then contact these guys and ask them what they have seen. Most of the time they either debunk the info or confirm that stuff is coming back. They see tons more guns then I do and they see them in batches. They sell them in batches and so they see trends.

This pushes the info past hearsay. It becomes confirmed information. No I don't have phone numbers and names but I have verbal conformation from guys who make a decent living selling Sigs among other guns. If you get a lemon what is the first thing you do? You call your dealer and you start asking questions. You say what do we do now? Can you get me an RMA??? Etc.....

So when you have a good relationship with your dealers they tell you what is really going on. They give you a heads up when the HK P7s are coming back into country. When the 556 is coming out? Colt ARs for a fair price. Plus the real scoop on whatever you are asking about. In the end you will make up your own mind as everyone should. I hope you continue to enjoy the Sigs you have any others that you may obtain in the future.

rellascout
April 19, 2008, 10:55 PM
To me this is Sig perfection.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/rellascout/p228-left-full-hi.gif

Care of Lunde http://lundestudio.com/sigs.html

Lonestar49
April 20, 2008, 02:07 AM
...

In the order of perfection:

1. American-German Shepherd ~ 8 flawless yrs

2. American/German Sig P220 ~ 1200 flawless rounds

3. Owner-Keeper, lover, of both: American-German/Swiss decent ~ 58 flawed years



http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc306/Lonestar49/Picture116.jpg

The 3 musketeer's motto: All for one.. One for all

USMCDK
April 20, 2008, 02:11 AM
Blind that is one big collection... How much did you spend on all of that???? I like the reverse two tone on at the mid bottom right side. It's a 220 full size in .45cal right???

Checkman
April 20, 2008, 03:19 AM
Am I the only one who bought the P245 when it was being made? I've owned mine for over seven years now and I've put over 6,000 45 rounds through it without a hitch.

Still own it and still shoot it. Guess since I was the only one who bought one I can't be suprised that Sig stopped making that model.

USMCDK
April 20, 2008, 04:28 AM
Well Checkman show us that pics of said P245 I would love to see what it looks like.

denfoote
April 20, 2008, 05:39 AM
The only Sigs I've considered worth their salt are the P6 and the P232.
I'm considering getting a P6.

USMCDK
April 20, 2008, 06:01 AM
I have never seen a P6 anyone got pics to post right here in this thread???

USMCDK
April 20, 2008, 06:03 AM
OOPS!!! Okay everyone I Lied and didn't even know it. There are some P6's here for refurbishing and I just remembered that. So I have seen them, but none the less post pics anyway it would be nice to spruce up the thread and everyone loves pics to begin with anyway...

Checkman
April 20, 2008, 07:06 AM
USMCDK Well Checkman show us that pics of said P245 I would love to see what it looks like.

Sure. This is what mine looks like right down to the after market eight round extended mag that I purchased directly from Sig a couple of years ago. However mine has more holster wear. I used my 245 as my duty weapon for a few years before my deprtment went to issuing us GLOCKS.

rellascout
April 20, 2008, 09:28 AM
The Sig P6

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/3732/p6v2ce3.jpg

Sig P225

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/Mentalcase0000/IMG_1230.jpg

76shuvlinoff
April 20, 2008, 09:56 AM
ok folks if this is off topic I apologize and will remove the post if it is.
I was impressed with Sig quality when I completed a Farnum course a few years ago with a borrowed 2340.
I prefer .40 cal. I am not a big guy. I am very definately left handed, I can handle mag and slide releases with my index finger but decockers are a struggle, (joint issue) I went to an XD40sc and am not disappointed but I would seriously consider adding a 40 Sig for cc if someone can point me in right direction.

Thanks!

AK103K
April 20, 2008, 09:56 AM
Am I the only one who bought the P245 when it was being made?
Nope, I got one too. I guess it wasnt selling or cool enough, but they are a hell of a gun. For some reason, I actually seem to shoot better with my P245 than I do with my P220's.

I use the stock mags in the gun, as it hides better, and P220 mags for the reloads.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7d700b3127ccebc1206d8d86500000036100CYuWbdo5bsU

MustangHowie
April 20, 2008, 10:24 AM
Here is my P6.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd143/MustangHowie/P-62.jpg

Storm
April 20, 2008, 10:31 AM
Over the past twenty years I have shot and owned a 226, 220, 230, 232, 239, P6, and 2340. I have put thousands of rounds down range and there has not been one malfunction of any kind whatsoever. Never, nada, zilch. They have gone bang every time that I have pulled the trigger on a loaded round, and generally with outstanding accuracy.

After thiry years of shooting, and owning some of the finest guns on the planet, I keep coming back to Sig.

AK103K
April 20, 2008, 10:43 AM
Here's two more P6's. The bottom one was made in '82, and has a lot of finish wear, both from the holster and shooting. The upper one was made in '98. Other than some minor holster wear, it was brand new and showed little use and appears to have been fired very little. The trigger on the one from 82 was very heavy, the one from 98 was a lot lighter, but still pretty heavy. I replaced the mainsprings on both and all the springs on the 82. Both now have triggers comparable to most SIG's you get these days. I also replaced the stock sights with new Meprolights. The 82 had plain, unmarked sights with a weird number combo, and were definitely regulated for someone else. The 98 had a bar/dot set and were right on. Both guns have fed anything I've put in them, from ball to +P+, without a hitch. The only issue I had was with the 82 when I first got it. Seems someone bent the slide stop up a little, I assume for better leverage, which makes it sit a little to high and its easily hit with the wrong grip. Up until this point, I had no troubles with a thumbs forward grip on any of my SIG's. This one kept dropping the slide on an empty mag until I went back to a thumb over thumb grip.

One thing with the P6's if you go looking for one. I've seen them with both the Euro heel mag catch and the US thumb type. I passed on one with the Euro release and now wish I'd taken it. It looked to be brand new and unused. I've only seen one other with that type release since.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh306/ak103k/P6s.jpg?t=1208701423

Storm
April 20, 2008, 11:03 AM
AK, years ago I had a P220 with the European heel mag release. It was an amazing gun but I really lusted after one with the American release, but at the time they were as rare as hen's teeth. I suppose it was a classic case of wanting what you can't have. I later sold that 220 but would really, really like to have one again with a heel release. It grew on me and once I got used to it mag changes became second nature. My current P6 has the American release but if I ever saw a heel release one I'd have to have it.

While I have a number of newer Sigs I really love the old ones. Rails on Sigs (other than polymer) and beavertails really leaves me cold. I recently had a new railed 220 that I turned around and sold unfired. I'll have a 220 again, but it will be stamped "West Germany".

Richard
April 20, 2008, 11:12 AM
I own Sigs (P226, P228, P230, P239 40S&W, and a P245) and I sold my P220 45acp; but I am no fan of Sigs. I shoot Sigs well but other handguns feel better in my hands. I prefer 1911s and Glocks. Why Glocks? The Glocks offer a lot of value for the money and I shoot them as well as Sigs. Regards, Richard:)

AK103K
April 20, 2008, 11:23 AM
Rails on Sigs (other than polymer) and beavertails really leaves me cold.
I never liked the rails either, until I tried a light on one. My Skeeter now has an M3X on it and does trash can and night time critter duty, and works VERY well. Same goes for one of my 357 P226's.

You can still keep the beavertails though. :)

Lonestar49
April 20, 2008, 12:27 PM
I use the stock mags in the gun, as it hides better, and P220 mags for the reloads.


...

AK, et. al.

So, looking at the pics of the P245, flush mag holds 6 rounds? And your back-up ccw 220 mags for 8 with mag lower extension.. wise ccw choices/set-up.

And on the P6: what is the purpose of the hook-like design of the hammer?

Some really great pics from all..


Ls

rellascout
April 20, 2008, 12:35 PM
The hook on the hammer was requested by the German police so that their smiths could quickly determine that a pistol had been dropped on concrete.

Other than that it serves no purpose.

Muddflap
April 20, 2008, 12:42 PM
One more 245 owner. Here's my two tone.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z77/Muddflap_bucket/DSCN1374.jpg

Lonestar49
April 20, 2008, 12:51 PM
Other than that it serves no purpose.


I agree.. :rolleyes:


Ls

Lonestar49
April 20, 2008, 12:55 PM
One more 245 owner. Here's my two tone.



...

Beautiful gun MF.. You've started 1BR's buy/invest clock ticking, and he has yet to see it.. lol


Ls

AK103K
April 20, 2008, 01:08 PM
So, looking at the pics of the P245, flush mag holds 6 rounds? And your back-up ccw 220 mags for 8 with mag lower extension.. wise ccw choices/set-up.
The standard mag holds 6. I just use the standard P220 8 round mags without the grip extension for my reloads.

The P245 will also fit in your P220/P226 holsters.

Youngster
April 20, 2008, 01:30 PM
I respect SIG's designs a great deal but I'd never buy another new one since they Kimberized. Oh, and this may border on blasphemy but I find the P22x series at least as "utilitarian" looking as any Austrian polymer pistol.

Checkman
April 20, 2008, 09:30 PM
Since I carried the 245 as my duty weapon (not concealed) I liked the extension magazine and 220 mags as my reload.

I also found that I shot my 245 better then the 220.

When carrying CCW I used the six round mags. I've let other guns go over the years, but the P245 is staying.

rellascout
April 20, 2008, 09:40 PM
They were good guns but just did not sell. They are superior to todays P220 compact or carry. IMHO :)

Checkman
April 20, 2008, 11:11 PM
I remember one of the complaints was that it didn't have good balance. Obviously I don't agree.

When it was discontinued I went and purchased a spare parts kit from Sig and magazine springs. Might never need them, but why take a chance?

USMCDK
April 21, 2008, 02:06 AM
Spoken Like a true boy scout!!! :neener: LoL

denfoote
April 21, 2008, 03:54 AM
OOPS!!! Okay everyone I Lied and didn't even know it. There are some P6's here for refurbishing and I just remembered that. So I have seen them, but none the less post pics anyway it would be nice to spruce up the thread and everyone loves pics to begin with anyway...

J&G has 'em for $225!! :what:
Why do they always have stuff I want on sale when I'm short of cash!! :o

USMCDK
April 21, 2008, 05:02 AM
would you mind posting the link to that???

tntwatt
April 21, 2008, 05:35 AM
Aim surplus link for p225/p6 at $259
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Surplus_and_Used_Handguns.html

Never done business with them, anyone else?

rellascout
April 21, 2008, 09:49 AM
Aim and J&G have good reps.

IMHO the grade 1 guns at Dans ammo are better deal for $299.

http://www.dansammo.com/firearms.asp

http://www.dansammo.com/images/inv/F020.jpg

Handyguy
April 21, 2008, 09:50 AM
I picked up a slightly used 239 w/ 3 mags for $375 recently and just love it. For me, the fel is great and I shoot quite comfortably with it. I consider it a bargain.

grimjaw
April 21, 2008, 09:53 AM
I think SIG makes fine handguns, I just don't know if they're worth $X more than the output of Glock or CZ.

jm

ZeSpectre
April 21, 2008, 10:41 AM
The job started out with "pick your own" revolver (S&W 686 for me thank you) then the very next year we were issued SIG 228 pistols and although I had been a wheelgun guy I really liked the 228. Then for some reason the higher ups switched us all over to the Beretta P-92. Now I know the P-92 is a good gun, but my specific issued sidearm was a lemon and it soured me severely on that model. It was twice as bad since I had liked my SIG 228 so much.

Well set the time machine forward a number of years and I don't do that work anymore and can buy what I want so I buy a CPO SIG 229 in 9mm for a song and the love affair is right back in full force causing me to also go out a few months later and buy another 229 in .40 S&W (my personal favorite semi-auto caliber).

Wanted to buy more SIG pistols (especially a Stainless 229) but then the prices EXPLODED and now I'm buying a house so at this point I'm living vicariously through the collections you guys are showing here <grin>.

Grimjaw, I understand what you say, I have a cz-75b in .40 S&W and it is the most accurate semi-auto I own and I really like that pistol, but the SIG is still what I carry 88% of the time.

1BLINDREF
April 21, 2008, 12:00 PM
Blind that is one big collection... How much did you spend on all of that???? I like the reverse two tone on at the mid bottom right side. It's a 220 full size in .45cal right???
There are many that have much bigger collections on the Sig Forum.

I bought my first Sig (a P228) 13 years ago. I average a little over one Sig per year, although there were years when my money went to raising kids, buying a house, cars, bills, etc. and I didn't pick up any new Sigs or any guns for that matter.
99% of my guns were purchased with the money I made as a soccer referee.

I don't know exactly how much that I have spent on Sigs, but like with everything, you get what you pay for. I know that I'd always be able to get close to what I paid for them if I had to sell them. Some I could get more.

I didn't buy all of my Sigs new.
I'm always looking for good deals on used Sigs. S&W wheel guns (my other addiction :evil: ) and Colts. If you look hard enough, you'll find some good deals.

That reverse two tone is a P226 9mm. It was an LEO trade in that I sent to CCR Refinishing for a make over. It's my IDPA gun.

RobertFBurnett
April 21, 2008, 12:18 PM
There are many that have much bigger collections on the Sig Forum.


Oh yeah, some of you have NO idea how deep the addiction goes! I almost fell over in my chair when I saw someones 20something P210 collection laid out on his bed. :) I think I need to post a pic request for that one, have not been able to find it in search.

RFB

rellascout
April 21, 2008, 12:27 PM
Yes there are guys who have extensive Sig collections. One my favorites is Mr. Lunde's.

His Sig Pistol collection is only rivaled by his photography skills.

http://lundestudio.com/sigs.html

Lonestar49
April 21, 2008, 12:41 PM
...

Wow, that's a nice collection, and you're right, his photo skills are just as nice

That link is a keeper..


Ls

rellascout
April 21, 2008, 12:53 PM
Yeah Mr. Lunde works for Adobe.

Look around his site and you will see other images of HK, 1911's, revolvers and other auto loaders.

Here is another one of my favorites.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/rellascout/ebeess-left-full-hi.gif

USMCDK
April 22, 2008, 02:20 AM
that was an awesome link I mean damn it huge...

I want that man to do my wedding photos. LOL!!!

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