necked down .38.....


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zsill7
April 21, 2008, 08:54 PM
I was recently playing with a .38 spl case that i had lying in my room and wondered....theyve modified calibers for semiautos (like the .357 sig and 380/32 NAA)....why not do that for a revolver cartrige like the 38. or .357 and make a .38/.32 or a .357/.32


this wasnt an idea i was really thinking of trying to accomplish but a "why not" question

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ReloaderFred
April 21, 2008, 09:18 PM
The problem with bottleneck cartridges in a revolver are they tend to lock up the cylinders. The .22 Jet had that problem in the S&W revolvers, as they did when they tried the .256 Winchester Magnum, circa 1960 (the .357 Magnum necked to .25 caliber). There was also the problem of the cylinder gap and the high pressure generated by the round.

The bottom line is, it's been tried and found that it didn't work.

Hope this helps.

Fred

zsill7
April 21, 2008, 09:29 PM
ohhhh! ok

i had just seen a revolver from taurus that had been chambered for the .17 HMR (or was it mach 2?) so i figured bottleneck would work...im curious to wonder how their overcoming those problems then....

cpttango30
April 21, 2008, 09:31 PM
I think the 17 cal rimfires are not operating at the higher pressures that the aforementioned rounds were. I could be totally wrong on this though.

Uncle Chan
April 21, 2008, 09:55 PM
The 44-40 is a very popular caliber with the SASS/CAS group. It is a necked-down pistol/rifle cartridge. It is a great cartridge. Wish I had some toys in this caliber.

Seafarer12
April 21, 2008, 10:13 PM
The 22 Jet is a necked down 357. I had a buddy that owned one. So your idea has been tried. I think it would have worked better with a larger round thus less taper, less chance of lockup but I would say a 32 is as small as I would go. That being said you could just get a 327 mag to do the same thing as a 357 necked down to 32. It was an interesting idea just not a great idea. If they could put a steep taper on the case it might work better in a revolver.

bluetopper
April 21, 2008, 10:31 PM
What comes to my mind is necking down a 45LC case to a 38/375 caliber.

Jim Watson
April 21, 2008, 11:05 PM
Neck down a .38?
Why not neck down a .357 for longer, stronger brass? And call it the .30-.357 Paxton.

Neck down a .45?
Why not neck down a .44 Magnum for thicker chamber walls, which Elmer Keith found to be worthwhile? And call it the .357 Bain & Davis.

There are others in Ackley, Nonte, and Donnelly.

Walkalong
April 22, 2008, 07:50 AM
The problem with bottleneck cartridges in a revolver are they tend to lock up the cylindersBingo, give Fred a prize. :D

Sure, there are bottlenecked revolver rounds out there. I am not sure anyone can come up with anything drastically different that has not already been tried. :)

Dumpster Baby
April 22, 2008, 09:37 AM
My .22 Jet revolver is my least reliable shootin' arn. The cases back up against the recoil plate and drag. Cocking the hammer sometimes requires a little hand assist on rotating the cylinder, and double action is very iffy. It does make neat fireballs and loud noises, though.

:evil:

zsill7
April 22, 2008, 10:36 PM
could someone explain exactly how it locks up?
i have a revolver but ive never had it do that before and im fairly new to alot of gun concepts particularly on how they can fail...

ReloaderFred
April 23, 2008, 12:42 AM
Dumpster Baby (what a name!) just explained it. The tapered, bottleneck cases back up against the recoil plate of the revolver and lock up the cylinder. This is due to higher pressure and the difference between a straight wall case friction and a tapered or bottleneck one. The .30 Carbine revolvers have the same problem, and it's caused by high pressure and a tapered case.

Hope this helps.

Fred

rcmodel
April 23, 2008, 11:26 AM
That pretty much summed it up, but to go a little further.

A straight-wall case slams into the recoil shield breach-face and expands into the chamber when fired.
But since it is straight, it can still slip back all the way into the chamber when the recoil shield ramp in the revolver pushes it foreword as the cylinder rotates.

A tapered or bottle-neck case slams back, expands, but is then held all the way back by the shoulder or taper. It can't be forced all the way back in the chamber by the recoil shield cam.
So the cylinder won't turn as easy, or won't turn at all.

Carried a step further:
Yes, the old 38-40 & 44-40 rounds had a slight taper or bottle-neck.
But the brass is very thin & operate at very low pressure.
And the SA guns they are normally shot in evolved from the old cap & ball colt design.
Those guns had enough industrial strength cylinder hand, thumb cocked power to grind up cap fragments and spit them out if necessary.

The more modern DA revolvers don't have as much cylinder turning hardware, or mechanical force to overcome such minor things as pushing / resizing an expanded bottle-neck case back in the hole it came out of.

rcmodel

zsill7
April 25, 2008, 10:04 AM
boy rc model you seem to know just about everything gun related, you manage to be in just about every post i read =D

thanks =]

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