[The Tourist]

As you know, it's getting warmer in Wisconsin--yikes, the winter is over--and I'll be taking to the roads once again. I cannot wait. Black Betty is done, and I will riding her home 04-23-08. Pictures to follow.

And with that change in habits comes the old question, "How do I carry defensive weapons and tools on the bike?"

After all, we could take a fall, land on them and break a rib. We could draw undue attention to ourselves--and I mean other than a big chrome 700 pound toy with Stage II pipes. The item should be handy, not strapped in some form of saddle-bag or pouch.

Here's my idea. And I'm experimenting.

I love my clip knives. However one of the negative aspects of weight lifting is that a four-inch knife carried in your right front pocket will dig into the crest of your thigh. Try that for one hundred miles.

The traditional Buck-110-in-a-sheath keeps getting caught on the back or side of my jacket, especially a denim jean jacket.

However, along with a recent order, I came across a very stout and durable ballistic nylon sheath from Blackie Collins. I also have a Buck knock-off Bushmaster (Camillus blade) that a client dropped off three years ago and never retrieved. The nice thing about the Blackie Collins sheath is that it has additional straps on the obverse side that allow it to be carried like an eyeglass case. Heck, it even looks like an eyeglass case, and "urban camouflage" is a good thing in a nice restaurant.

I decided to slip the case on my belt with the top facing forward to the fly on my jeans. I thought about placing it facing outward for a fast retrieval because the case is hefty and well made with secure velcro. However I figured over time the fastener would vibrate and weaken, and I don't think this style of retrieval is factually slower.

Last night I buffed and sharpened the knife to a mirror finish and I'll be doing a shake down run for a few days. I will also be carrying Emerson (not shown) but I will try to limit my slicing duties (UPS boxes, envelopes, thread, steaks, townie muggers) to the Bushmaster.

I found my case at PVK&T. Josh got it for me for about nine bucks, and that covers his profit, as well. I'll bet a cheaper price could be found with an internet search.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/DSC00250.jpg

[sm]

Great Thread!

"Risk for falls" is a serious concern for not only motor cycles, also bicycles, hikers, hunters, and folks in general public.

That sheath is a good one!

I and mine have messed around with some of the other "urban" blending in.
Eyeglass cases, Cell Phone cases that are worn on the belt as you described and shared in a picture.

In a vehicle, this allows one access to a knife as well, be they the driver or passenger, and sitting for long periods with a seat belt on, can be uncomfortable.

One might find using "cross draw" is best for them, depending on if driving or passenger, or where that seat belt fastens.
Motorcycles with throttle, brake, clutch , add more thought and practiced plans to see what works for them.

Open end to front is what we like, and it is because of motor vehicles, and it works for bicycles.

[eliphalet]

Smaller knife works for me riding. A stockman and if needed a NAA 22LR in the other front pocket of my jeans. My jacket is a California CHP copy and has a nice leather lined "gun pocket" too, but it is hard to get to wth gloves moving.
Now that I am older and a sissy I have a windshield on my scooter and can clip what I need to that or look in the bike catalogs for stuff that clips to your bars. Makes it easy to reach, and legal to pack anything without a CCW for weapons in this state. My favorite for that is a 45 LC derringer in a eyeglass case with just a bit of the grip showing to stay legal as open carry is OK. A casual look one will only see a typical eyeglass case clipped there.

Get a fork bag that attaches with Velcro straps, easy on and off or take the 110 out of the sheath, its a unnecessary extra anyway

[Sniper X]

I still carry a full size 1911 in a tank bag or a commander in a blackhawk on my side, and a Terani Strider on a clip in my front pocket. while on the motorcycle of course!

[The Tourist]

That sheath is a good one!

Thanks for the quick response. It's good that this product has been "field tested" and others find it a good value.

The one thing I regret is my digital camera. It makes both the knife and the sheath look "washed out."

Like many others here, I have buffed the brass furniture to a mirror finish with both Mother's Mag Wheel paste, and their Billet product. Yikes, what a finish. I've very jealous of the members here who have polished their revolvers to a sheen.

No matter how well I sharpen the bevels, the best edge just shows "black" in the picture. I have one client here (confidentiality) that sent me a knife, and the only way I could send him/her a pic was to flash a blue LED light on the bevel.

My point is that if you are a potential customer for Blackie Collins products and Buck 110's, don't use my photography to sway your opinion!

I intend to beat the stuffings out of these products and I have no reservations that they will function to a high degree.

[The Tourist]

Get a fork bag that attaches with Velcro straps

I'm glad yours worked out for you. I never decided if I liked mine or not. It was hard to get into, I hit every mosquito in Dane County and polished the case more than I polished my boots. I'm not sure I want to hang it on my new CVO front end and scratch it. However, I still have the bag. We'll see.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/DSC00118.jpg

[eliphalet]

Riding in Wisconsin there is a good chance you wear chaps a lot. Find a local leather guy/gal and have a long narrow pocket with a velcro or snap pocket sewed to the left lower leg. That way what ever you carry can be reached without letting the throttle go. I like stuff on the left side riding for that reason. If some fool is trying to run you off the road and kill you keeping the throttle hand in place is a very good idea.
I know that is a rare occasion but know a guy that was almost killed for wearing a chromed WWII Nazi helmet on the freeway. At least that was the only reason he was ever able to think of as to why "out of the blue" this person was trying to kill him.
I am no Nazi fan but thought it looked pretty cool him on a bright yellow and chrome scoot with a chrome helmet with a shinny brass spike sticking up 4 inches or so out of the top of it. Must have been an officers helmet, I have no idea, but wasn't your typical grunts lid. Apparently not everyone like the looks of it.

[Valkman]

Here's my '01 Honda Valkyrie with 38k miles:

http://usera.imagecave.com/Valkman/Right2.jpg

That's an old pic where I used to live but it looks about the same now. :)

Here's one I took coming home at a place called Caples Lake:

http://usera.imagecave.com/Valkman/Caples_Lake_small.jpg

Here's when we got married on our bikes - that's the wife's HD Dyna:

http://usera.imagecave.com/Valkman/Both_Harley_small.jpg

I generally keep my Strider in my front pocket (don't lift weights :)) and a gun in trunk. :D

[Sniper X]

Yeah, see you guys have all sorts of room to store stuff on your bikes compared to me!

[sm]

The Tourist,
You don't look very happy in that picture...you don't have any bugs in your teeth.
*neener*

Fork Bag.

Try this and see if this works.

Using PVC, cut to fit , glue one end, and use a screw cap for the other.
This is like a hard case for a Fly Rod or those tubes you have seen for building plans and the like.

This is like a pelican box only round, weather resistant, we did back when the earth was flat before pelican boxes and pvc using honest to goodness pipe .

Sometimes on a bike ( dirt, street, road) one needs a water resistant container.
Trust me, dirt bikes do not float, and not worth a flip in a river. *ahem*

Now one can paint the PVC Black, or get a roll of that honest to goodness HVAC tape, not duct tape, the expensive , shiny tape.
That tape is really strong, holds up, and is "Chrome".

If it don't go fast - chrome it.

You gotta look good getting there.

See? I understand how all this works. *smile*

Now, we use Turtle Wax Hard Shell Wax, on the black painted, it even worked on the HVAC tape, though it was not really needed.
Bugs, don't stick, easy to clean, and easy to maintain. *ta-da*

Now, once tested, and if one chooses to upgrade to more "trick", save that tube, as it is handy for saddlebags and other uses.

See your buddy at the machine shop, get one made of metal and Chrome it, paint it, whatever you want.

No. I do not have a bike, but I have experiences and we are all in this together.

Q. How can you tell a happy biker?
A. By the number of bugs in their teeth.

*Vrooom*

[Kingcreek]

I've got the same case but without the Blackie sig on it. Great case but if you use it long enough the velcro will weaken. I wear mine horizontal flap-forward in a right/front position with a Bob Dozier folding hunter in it.

[The Tourist]

The Tourist, You don't look very happy in that picture

The sun looks bright in that photo, but it was pretty breezy as I remember. I don't get cold easily, so if you see a photo of me in leather than you know it's a tad frosty.

As for being happy, I'm pretty happy-go-lucky. I have a natural face and eyebrows that just look like I've got front row tickets to watch a double hanging. I'l admit to being a lot more comfortable with my own kind.

the velcro will weaken

I'm sure it will. My point is that Blackie Collins products have always given me good service and I will get many months of security from this sheath. Like any other stitch of clothing a biker owns, it will get soaked in the rain, drown in dust, exposed to cold, and beat up as a manner of simply being there.

As much as like my Striders and my Emersons, there is just something about a Buck 110 and their knock-offs that just fits the bill. You can eat with it one minute, strip wire with it the next.

I'll further admit to not really caring about what happens to it. I know I take good care of my stuff--that bike is four years old--but a Buck 110 is going to live a life with working cowboys, hunters and tradesmen.

[feedthehogs]

Don't always think something will harm you if you fall. A buddy had a drunk driver come up behind his bike in Houston on the freeway and knock it out from underneath him.
A knife carried in his back pocket kept the highway from takin a good part of his hide off.


I always ride with a Kimber 10mm in a Galco vertical holster under my left arm, a Kel Tec 32 in my left pocket and a folder in my front right pocket.

A 3" fixed blade with matching handles to the Kimber grips is slung from the ride side holster strap above the spare magazines.

Leather jacket, jean jacket, denim shirt all work just fine. Very comfortable over hundreds of miles.

I figure no sense in carrying anything you can't get to quick. Otherwise tuck a ball peen across the risers.

Valkman,
I knew there was a reason I liked doin business with you. Other than the good knives of course.

[eliphalet]

As much as like my Striders and my Emersons, there is just something about a Buck 110 learn your markings , then off to Ebay and get the 440C 110's about the same price as the 420HC they sell now.
No doubt there is better steel available, but at at price, and I can/have gutted two young elk, split the brisket on both to their neck, or several deer, and had my old 110 still be sharp enough to shave my arm. Any knife that can do that and is tough enough to split 38's is OK for the price you can buy em for. Darn shame Buck stopped using that steel or at least let it be a option.
I carry a stone in the day pack just in case but don't think it has ever been needed on a older Buck in the field.
The slipjoint in my front pocket is 420 and I ain't no expert, just a consumer that uses em daily, but you can take it to the bank, it is in no way in the same class as the 440C Buck usta use.

[The Tourist]

learn your markings , then off to Ebay and get the 440C 110's about the same price and the 420HC they sell now.

That's good advice, and people should always check the ricasso for info about their knives. With fewer people spending, there should be some great deals out there.

I'm a reseller, however, and I get lower prices from my distributor.

In fact, about the only Buck 110 I'm looking for is the Bass Pro Shop model with the 154-CM blade.

[JShirley]

Hm.

Well, y'all may know I'm in a graduate program. I was just thinking yesterday about storage solutions on a bike or (hangs head and whispers) scooter. I was thinking perhaps mount a small metal lockable box on the bike?

The problem is, Georgia in general has good carry laws, but you can't carry on publicly owned grounds, including college campuses. I thought a small metal box might give secure storage for something like a P3AT, Commander, or 642.

John

[eliphalet]

I was thinking perhaps mount a small metal lockable box on the bike?Great idea, One thing i would try to do is to have the lock box as concealed or nonchalant looking as possible. Say in a little saddle bag type of set up that has a good bolted to the bike lock box inside. Out of sight, out of mind, just might help with theft or any other inquiring minds. Like a lunch box or small cooler in a pickup, everyone thinks it is just lunch box, and never thinks of what could perhaps be inside.

[JShirley]

Yeah, lower profile is even better.

[sm]

I am out of the loop on current motorized two wheelers.
So I don't really know what some the factory set up are for scooters, trail bikes and Bikes in general is.

Back in the day, the only real lockable container available was the Simplex.
Just one model at the time and this is the one that does not use electronics, or batteries, instead that patented Simplex lock, with 5 buttons and one can change the combo.
These are great for vehicles, or furniture in a house to mount, just a bit big and hard to conceal on a bike.

So, we implemented Improvise Adapt Overcome.

In a smaller town, some youths, were getting the small scooters under the required HP rating that required a license.
Good kids, responsible, just needing transportation to school and running errands.
A number of single moms and dads got these for the youths, and in an emergency , these did come in handy , like getting parents meds from the local drug store.

Sheet metal / metal worker folks and the Bike shop, were real good about keeping mouths shut, and customer confidentiality.

A "battery box" might be done a bit bigger, or added, and if one did not know the bike, they did not know that was a beefy , lockable container.

Under the seat storage was beefed up, and metal workers made a box to fit, that either mounted permanently , or, was held in by a real strong cable or chain.
Locksmiths , mom and pops, were in on all this and had locks that worked on these designs.

One young lady, has under the seat storage her lockable container, was big enough to hold a full size 1911 or K frame with 4" barrel.

Lessons on being discreet, keeping mouths shut and all with these kids and parents, still these custom made lock boxes are proven.

Leather folks, even tack folks messing with horses, rode bikes, so they assisted with all this.
That lock box was secured!
Custom "saddlebag" just covered it, and nobody ever had one messed with.

One old timer showed up his deal, back when was young.
That old time headlight, was a lot bigger than needed, and had room for items.
From that idea, on another bike, he and his bunch added another "headlight", since folks were doing this "running two and looking cool".

Not a sophisticated key lock, still that metal headlight case was lockable.
A J frame fit in these.

So old timers had some tricks, that worked then, and still do.

[alaskanativeson]

Trust me, dirt bikes do not float, and not worth a flip in a river.

Obviously you weren't riding a Rokon two wheel drive motorcycle:

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g235/Rodgersplace/RokonFloatVerbage.jpg

They have a really nice leather case that attaches between the handlebars, of course that's not enough for some people. I've seen guys mount 20MM ammo cans to these things as saddlebags and side by side 50 cal ammo cans on the front racks. I know this isn't what the OP had in mind but since I used to own a Rokon I thought I'd mention it. It's a fantastic bike that gets very little coverage.

[The Tourist]

One old timer showed up his deal, back when was young

Ya' know, the basic configuration of my engine was designed in 1936, but I was born fourteen years later...

Your point is well taken. A limited amount of space seems to dog us all in finding solutions that work.

As for a scooter, I'm thinking about it, myself. One of them that does highway speeds and has a big flared skirt on the front for rain.

The entire seat lifts up and uncovers a storage area. I do have some problems with fitting my sharpening kits into that limited area, but I think my supplier makes a smaller unti that certainly will fit. I can adapt the part to my bigger kit.

Some of the bigger scooters easily do Interstate speeds, and the flared skirt will keep me dry in changing weather. In Wisconsin, an 80* day and sunny in the morning can mean snow or rain in the afternoon. I've started my truck using the heater--parked it--and then had to flip on the A/C when I started it up again.

If you've driven a big bike in the rain without a decent front fender, you eat rain for the entire ride home.

[ArfinGreebly]

Go to Wal*Mart.

Pick up a Buck 110 for $27.

Remove from packaging.

(If you already have a Buck 110 with a nylon case, skip the first three steps.)

Examine the back of the ballistic nylon case, without the knife in it. Notice that, in addition to the obvious, wide, wear-me-vertical-on-your-belt loop, there are two narrower loops that run transverse at each end of that large loop. Slip your finger in there. Yup, there's enough room for a normal-to-thick dress belt. This case fastens with a positive-close metal snap. Now, it does have the Buck logo on it but, if that's a problem, a felt marker or seam ripper will remedy that.

This case will hold a full sized folder (Buck 110, large sodbuster, etc.). I can get that case all day long for under $10.

It may not suit your needs, but it's worth noting that the cross-belt loops are there.

Just in case.

[sm]

alaskanativeson,

I have a "reason" why I ended up in the river.
I had one of them evil tree roots grow up all of a sudden, while I was in the lead, and just about to hit the top of the levee, where one then races the dirt bike down the levee a bit, and then heads down...

It reached out, and I went airborne, which normally is not a bad thing, as one gets more distance airborne, and one goes faster on one wheel...

Oh I was armed with a gun and knife...sorta not thinking about them, instead hitting a kill switch, as I sailed over the levee and was going to land "out yonder" and get "sunk", not to mention wet.

There is a point in all this, one accepts the kill switch ain't gonna kill and the words " gotta look good getting there " comes to mind.

I went for Style Points, and am told "that was beautiful dude" because I come down way out yonder and then disappeared way under water.

Captain is supposed to do down with the ship, or something along them lines.

I gave Deep Purple's Smoke on The Water, new meaning that day...

*splash-sizzle-smoke*

[The Tourist]

hitting a kill switch

Once you launch on the high side, hitting the kill switch doesn't help.

However, I know it feels like we should be doing something. I spun my F-150 around doing 360's on a patch of glare ice this winter. Oh, there was no question about it, I was freewheeling, and I was going to stop only by running out of inertia.

So there I sat like a dunce. I had my size 11 Harley boots slamming those clutch and brake pedals to the floor, little orange ABS light twinkling like a Christmas tree, and I might as well as hummed a little tune.

But it felt right to slam the pedals.

My Dad once told me that "the big red button" that brings machinery to a stop is actually designed to feel mechanical and "click." In the computer age, it could just as easily be designed to work like one of those heat sensitive elevator buttons that don't move at all.

Still, in a crisis people like to feel that they have done something. And punching a real clicking button makes them feel better.

SM, when you went airborne, you might as well as done your taxes in the stark calm of the apogee...

[Zoogster]

Hate velcro though. If trouble is approaching you try to leave, but putting your defensive weapon in your hand can help you to react quicker if it catches up. The loud rip of the velocro gives away that you are retrieving something, causing most of the element of surprise to be lost, removing much of that advantage.

A strong button snap that can be undone silently with pressure is much prefered.

So if you may use a knife for a defensive purpose, putting it in a loud velcro fasted sheath removes some of its usefulness in certain situations.
I would rather something that in the dark could allow me to put a knife in my hand without anyone hearing a sound.

[The Tourist]

something that in the dark could allow me to put a knife in my hand

And that's a valid strategy. However some older southern sheriffs used to nickel plate their shotguns. They wanted everyone to see them get out of a squad car with that firearm.

And that brings up the strange problem with a "biker knife." The act of defense is only one of the uses and needs for that knife.

Unless I wish to ride a dresser, I have limited storage areas and pockets. Clothing and sleeping gear take up almost 2/3's of the volume I have to work with. If I carry tools, that's dead weight. A passenger loads the biker down even further.

To that end, the engines Harley offers in 103 ci and 110 ci are strokers. That is, engines to "twist hard" coming from a dead stop.

My knife is for everything. It's a weapon, it's a food utensil (primarily), a wire stripper, and even a barter commodity. If we were to look for "real bikers" we would simply look for how the guy is "worn out." That is, how do his tires look, are his jeans faded or ripped, has his boots seen their share of rain and mud, and where has he staked his money--on a knife, or just fancy silver conchos.

Like I say, I love my Striders. But if the summer day is sunny, then I need a biker's knife. I'm going to pound it, drop it, wear it down and probably destroy it before its time. Most likely I will never use it as a weapon, although that is one of its uses.

[TimboKhan]

Ha! Rokon! My dad has a Rokon back when I was younger and it was slow and stable enough that he let me ride it around largely unsupervised. I used to climb some unbelievably steep stuff with that thing...

Tourist, it strikes me that it would be fairly simple to modify a regular old belt pouch and just attach it to your bike. I mean, it doesn't have to be in your pocket, right? If you added it to your handlebars in some unobstrusive place, it would be fairly inconspicous, and if you wanted to carry it into a roadhouse or something, you just take a second and slip it into your pocket. You could actually probably zip-tie it on with complete satisfaction, and I don't even think it would look cheap...

[wheelgunslinger]

I've been riding with a Firstgear Kilimanjaro jacket for the last 3 years (I'm a daily rider, not a weekender) and really am happy with what it will hold.
The two map pockets on each side of the chest hold plenty and are lined so they don't scuff or abrade items.
The chest pockets work really well and have small keeper net pockets on the inside to hold items in there. But, the best part is that they will "tear" open with one hand to reveal the contents. So, if you need to get to a knife, you can. And, it stays put until you need it.

This way, I can park my bike and not have to worry about it being ransacked. I ride and park all over the place too. So, that's a real concern for me.

[BigG]

I have a fork bag on my sissy bar. There is really no storage place on most Hog cruisers.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/BigG_photos/HarleySoftailSpringer027.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/BigG_photos/009.jpg

[The Tourist]

Tourist, it strikes me that it would be fairly simple to modify a regular old belt pouch

Oh, I'm not saying you couldn't.

Periodically we have posts about problems carrying weapons/tools while on a motorcycle, a bicycle, out jogging, in a gym, sitting in a car all day, etc.

For me, this is the biggest problem. And it is akin to being on a job sitting all day. When I ride I'm more of an "iron butt." It's when I work that I stand all day.

I also feel that carrying a weapon/tool in this manner might save a biker some broken ribs in a fall.

But you are obviously correct. Bikers modify just about everything they touch. I'm picking up Black Betty today. I'm going to post a pic if I can think up a caption that is gun related.:D

[SeanSw]

The only time I went down hard the bundle of coins in my hip pocket dug into my skin and left marks of their own. Even the double stitched pocket hem left a scar over my hip bone. Going down on a folding knife sounds terrible in any configuration and I'll never wear one on my belt while riding. I love knives and if there isn't one on me you can bet there is one around me, but whatever utility they serve while mounted must be precarious. I'll leave mine in the saddle bag.

I ride an old Honda 900f year round and tuck something accessible in the throw over nylon saddlebags when I'm going for a long haul. These old bikes need lots of tools, dont'cha know.

[Valkman]

I've been riding with a Firstgear Kilimanjaro jacket for the last 3 years

My jacket of choice also. :) When I went down a few years ago it protected me well - it ripped, my gloves and boots had holes in them but I was fine. Progressive paid me for that stuff and when I went to buy a new one it was marked $380 and rang up at $110. Now that was a steal!

Here's us at the Grand Canyon a few years ago:

http://usera.imagecave.com/Valkman/Denise_Don/Us_GC_small.jpg

[The Tourist]

As you know, I have been looking at ways to carry knives/tools with me with comfort, and in such a way that I do not land on them in a wreck.

I used to carry a fork pouch, something I'm not sure I wish to do now. As you can see, I have replaced the stock fork with one from a 2006 style CVO Dyna inverted fork. The fork itself is brand new, simply a model year that meshes with my 2004.

Any ideas now that you've seen it?

BTW, today was the first time I rode Black Betty with her new fork, front wheel and performance cams.

Yikes...

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/DSC00251.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/DSC00252.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/DSC00253.jpg

[eliphalet]

Buy a vest

[sm]

Nice Bike!!

Seriously, I do see one place, maybe two, where perhaps a lock-box, custom made and it would best to be chromed.

What is that metal "really" like at the rear of seat where I can see the rear wheel?
My mind pictures that area, beefed up, with a chrome box, with a quality custom lock and key installed by a professional locksmith.
Done right, it might not be too thick for comfort, and if you put saddle bags back and over, they would not protrude to give them away, instead conceal even more.

Hide in plain site - if you will, and if done right, works better than concealed.

[eliphalet]

Across the frame on the downtubes, a nice black or chrome waterproof tube can be bought, made for just what your wanting. Look in the bike catalogs, vest is still better IMHO.

To the untrained eye it would be in the open but look like it belonged there, a good idea as Steve suggested.

[The Tourist]

it would be in the open but look like it belonged there

I was thinking the same thing.

If I put some kind of a lock-box somewhere on the bike, a theif might think that if I secured it, it must be worth stealing.

Harley makes a chrome triangle-shaped tool box from the 1930's, but everyone that rides a Harley knows what it is.

However, if it just looked like a "mechanical thing," people might leave it alone.

For example, in my old house I found a section in my basement where numerous PVC pipes crossed the floor joists. I went to the hardware store, bought a similar section of tubing and two end caps. Bingo, instant home safe for jewelry, knives and firearms.

Well, we moved. I had emptied out the safe months before that, and forgot about the thing completely. By dumb luck, the house had been purchased by my doctor's nurse, and their family remodeled the basement. I told her the story of the false pipe.

She called me a few weeks later. Her husband had torn out a lot of stuff during the remodeling and thought I was joking--until he looked! He couldn't believe that he had spent so much time down there and failed to see a false pipe.

[eliphalet]

Folks don't seem to mess with a bike much is my experience. I know it happens but think it is sorta rare.

Bought the one I have now new over a dozen years ago. It has been rode all over the Western USA to Sturgis a couple of times, parked in front of motels, bars, restaurants and at runs, from HOG events to parties like ya see in Easy Riders etc. all over the place under a variety of conditions and no one has ever messed with nuttin.

When I am going to be taking leathers on and off a lot I do wear a older pawn shop jacket and not the Vanson, so I can toss it over the window or use a bungee and leave it and not worry to much. Always kinda expect to have to ride home in the cold with no coat but done that a hundred times and so far so good.

I was sitting in front of a rural restaurant/store once having a cold drink and had a guy ask me " aren't you worried some one will just on ride off before you can get there?" I told him "no that bike can't go faster than the lead I have here in my pocket." He just nervously laughed but I tend to think a lot of would be thieving jerks think that same thing about messin with a guys bike, "it's a good way to get hurt" so they tend to leave em alone. I do lock it if I am out of sight or over night, avoid cities like the plague, and pay my insurance so feel OK and don't really worry. I would hate to lose her or any part, but it's just a Harley and can be replaced.

[The Tourist]

Folks don't seem to mess with a bike much

When I am close to home, that has also been my experience. When I ride/rode with my MC I could leave a bag of diamonds on the seat and no one messed with the bikes. But that's not always the case. I like to ride by myself more and more.

As much as I loved Sturgis, I'm not sure I have that in my near future. It's a good time to work, and being off +one week hurts the pocketbook. Having said that, you might just find me on I-94 headed west to play with the youngun's. I'm sure looking for some saddle time.

Another point. You are always reponsible for the weapons you own. If I have an unsecure method of carrying firearms and knives--and a teenager gets hold of one and blows his head off--then I am responsible. More to the point, I would feel bad even though he was a felon.

In fact, I had that thing happen to me once before. One of my first handguns was a Colt Trooper in .357 Magnum. I traded up to a Python by selling the Trooper to a friend. He tired of it and sold it to his friend. Then a woman bought it...and so on.

About fifteen years later, I got a call from the Madison Police about the "parentage" of the revolver in an investigation.

Somehow that gun had wound up in the hands of a crack dealer. One night he heard something outside, and being paranoid, went out to check the area. Like a rookie, he cocked the Trooper with his finger inside the trigger guard, tripped over a garden hose in the dark, fell on the Colt, and put a bullet through the bottom of his jaw and out the top of his head.

I don't begrudge the twist of fate, but it was still with my old gun.

[sm]

We all know it is best to have personal defense choices on person.
Not only as we can access them, also control over them as they are in our possession.

Reality is, there are no firearm areas as set forth by legislation by government regulations from Fed, State, County and City levels.
One cannot walk into a local FBI or State Police building with a gun, not where I am anyway.

Add, other restricted areas, as statues allow folks to post no-weapon signs as their discretion.

Then again, just like a lock box for a vehicle, sometimes it is not a gun, instead valuables.
This for me goes way back, before CCW was even a deal in my state, heck back as a kid folks had lockable containers in vehicles.

Taking a trip and before credit cards, having some emergency cash, checkbooks, later traveler's checks ( or copies of those numbers) later, credit card, or important papers like family social security numbers, bank account numbers for kinfolks, maybe relatives out of town, like a kid going to college or parents/grandparents out of town.

Going to a another HS to play ball, swim team , or being a cheerleader and not wanting to trust school lockers, kids that had vehicles had lockable containers.

Going to work out at the gym, well if one does come in, and advertise rings, watches, jlry, and the like, less chance one's locker gets into, or one is later tailed and followed and a victim later on.

So this safe, secure storage is not a new thing, just it seems to have cycled back again as it does from time to time.
CCW , and some requirements for lockable containers with CCW laws and regs adds to this need (even though folks with common sense would do so anyway).

Bikes have always presented a challenge, while they offer one some sense of Freedom on the road/trails they in essence have an equal and opposite restriction aspect as well.

I guess that is why some folks get older, get rid of a bike and get a convertible sports car.
I know one lady that got a Miata for pretty much this reason, and a gentleman got a convertible Mustang as well.

Bikers though, are different, there is a earned trust or respect if you will.
I hate to say "honesty amongst thieves" still this saying applies.

Heck, even real outlaws on bikes don't mess with another bike that belongs to a law abiding person.

If some punk messes with a good guy's bike, these honest outlaws on bikes will come down on them.
There is a Code and that Code runs deep.


Out of site out of mind is still a good rule.
Back in the day folks had these sheet metal and metal workers I mentioned earlier, make a metal box, with a good lock.
They added a cable or chain, that would insert, and the lock was inside the box with valuables.

That idea is now on the market, I forget whom makes these, and in different sizes, I know they will hold a full size 1911 or Med frame revolver with 4" bbl on one size offering.

Back in the day we did not have CD players and what all.
Still folks put those metal boxes made into factory storage area, secured by chain or cable.

Ladies on bikes and girls on scooters, had a small purse, easy to insert and retrieve.
Guys on bikes and boys on scooters, had more of a problem, guys did not do fanny packs, or day planners , so they used "calculator" containers, later something a Sony Walkman with cassette player and radio and smaller head phones to conceal that box.

It actually was just better for boys to use a paper sack, heck even a fast food sack, as folks would rip off a Sony Walkman.

This same metal box with chain or cable worked in cars then, as they do now.
Rental cars for instance, heck even in town and one rents a car as their is in the body shop.
Chain or cable around where seat belt attaches for instance and under the seat.
Easy to access, and easy to remove to take into home, business or hotel/motel.
If one uses a hotel safe, items are in a lockable container, and not a 'Jlry box".


I will say, as I know for a fact, some of these items do not need to be advertised.
Criminals know what these secure containers are, and "hidden containers" are.

They know about false outlets in a home, and can spot one in a split second.
Fort Knoxx did ( maybe still does) books, of various sizes and thicknesses and these are THE worst to get.

Everyone advertised these, retail folks had them out, so not only did criminals already know what these were, folks would visit other folks and look at bookshelves to find that "hidey-hole" book.

Different Book Titles and Authors, still when punks come in, and flip a house, they know to flip books.

My take, and one I harp about a lot, is not advertising.
Too many folks advertise way too much.
Internet does not help, as criminals use Internet, as do wanna be criminals and they get ideas and educated.

Hence the reason one ought to come up with something custom and keep mouth shut about it.

There is a place, for example, with trusted folks, like family, to know what something is, in the event something happens and others need to access it.
Like a bike/ car wreck, or disaster in the home or business.

The Tourist for example, if he came upon something, and he has a trusted friend, or client, and shared , then whom he shared with getting a lockable container would also have to abide by the Code , to not share with another - unless - that person was trusted family or someone like he /she is to The Tourist.

I hate to be this way, just my life experiences have too many real life horror stories of folks getting hammered.
Most often by family and friends.

Folks advertise too much, and others don't mean to, just say and do things where illegal eyes and ears pick up on these.

i.e.
In a public place, making conversation and "well my daughter keeps a spare key to the house with the alarm code in a decorative rabbit in her back yard landscape she did, so if the kids locked them selves out, they could get into the house".

Bingo! How hard is it to find out who that ladies daughter is?

"Yes I am supposed to go see my daughter later today and assist her on some wall paper trim".
How hard to follow this lady and then be led to that daughter's house.

"Yes my son-in-law is a hunter, he got a nice deer this past fall, he has all sorts of nice guns".

See what I mean?
This happens every day, hundreds of times.

[The Tourist]

sm, yes, I believe you. However, I don't find the "honor amongst thieves" to be working as good as it once did.

Let me give you and example. Several years ago I made the comment (in a forum) that there had been relative peace between the pimps, bangers and the bikers in my area. One youngster responded that if a biker bothered him he would "taser their azz."

He's right, of course. He was too young to remember serious gang wars and turf problems. In fact, my club once sat down with a national outlaw club because our rags were the same color. At a distance, they might be confused.

As to this debate, I'm wondering if anything I do for security will be respected at any time. If younger guys don't follow any code, that means that they will steal from or trash a bike. Truth be told, I keep my bike within sight unless I'm at a biker event.

Additionally, things have changed legally. Thirty years ago if a townie tried something with a bike, he got stomped. If any cop responded at all (and at that time it was a big "maybe") the most often heard response was, "Well, it looks like justice prevailed..."

The cop would smile as he left and say something funny like, "Oh, and get a muffler on that thing..."

Our club enforcers now report (and right to my face) that if we lived now as we did then we would be under constant scrutiny.

I cannot rely on the "old boundaries." Oh, I don't mind getting physical with some idiot, but I also keep my attorney's number on speed dial on my cell phone. (Yikes, the fact I even own a cell phone disgusts me many times.)

If memory serves, I don't even think the old HD tool kit fits on a Dyna. In that regard it's getting harder and harder to seek safety and still stay in the confines of the law. If any factor plays in my favor it's because now I have gray hair.

However, I will continue to look for some locked device. Your comment on custom fixtures wll be one of the areas I'll check on.

[eliphalet]

I guess that is why some folks get older, get rid of a bike and get a convertible sports car.Some yes but I hope I never have to, but time will tell. Few years ago I had rode out to Neah Bay the farthest NW point in the lower 48. We stopped at a casino to eat on the ride back where I met neat older guy that was on his Goldwing. Told me he was 81 and of the 52 year old he was chasing. Gave me hope at least. Been over 40 years since I got my first motorcycle and I think I enjoy it now as much if not more than back then.


I keep my bike within sight unless I'm at a biker event.Probably one of the riskiest places to leave a scoot unattended. Life long buddy of mine's friend lost a new 25-35K Big Dog at the Love ride last year, thieves haunt rallies etc. Buy one of the alarms that will alert you up to a mile or two away if it is so much as touched, and remember it is pretty but replaceable, so do things, go places, and enjoy it. I know you do too I guess i am saying I usta worry but life is to short and on good advice I have relaxed and quit worrying so darn much if somethings gets stolen, It ain't a heirloom.

Thats a pretty one you have there Tourist but being afraid to let it out of sight reminds me. A few years back we had rode down to So. Cal. met a bunch hen rode on out through Twentynine Palms to Amboy on the old Route 66 then on to that River Run thing they do in Laughlin. One guy from Ca. that was gonna go had just built this really nice chopper. He had about 60K in it I was told. Well, the paint and chrome was nice and meant so much to him he didn't wanna take it across the desert so he stayed home and missed a fun time. To me that is akin to a custom gun you don't dare shoot. Nice to look at and valuable, but in many ways worthless.

Ride safe, shoot straight, but most of all have fun cause none of this is forever.

[The Tourist]

biker event...Probably one of the riskiest places to leave a scoot unattended.

I meant at a pig roast or a "bikini bike wash" held by my club.

Heck, you or I could leave our keys in the bike or the dashboard knob unlocked and still enjoy the afternoon. In the five years I rode as a full-time MC member I never lost anything, and our bikes were parked at the old Wisconsin Inn--facing Paterson Street, and thief's quick getaway to East Wash.

Different times, and change has not made it better.

[sm]

If younger guys don't follow any code,

This is a huge key to a lot of today's problems in society.
Folk's ain't being raised right.

Granted some youth today are being parented and mentored , still there is much truth in " I was born in the last great decade".

Being more honest some youth being parented and mentored are not being parented and mentored "right" although the parents and mentors mean well.

Youth are not often prepared for the real world.
Book smarts are fine, grades, GPAs, and graduating early and having college credits earned in HS, does not mean some have street smarts, and values.

Sorry if I offended some, but I have seen some of these youths, and I hope some never see their youth having a Rape Kit done on them, re constructive surgery, plastic surgery, and for damn sure signing the paper so organs can be removed and the kid going through a organ harvest.
BTDT too many times...

These Codes we speak of, Society on all levels used to have them and while they still exist, as time passes, those passing forward are dying off and the younger ones are not being passed onto, or simply "don't want it".

Oh some kid gets stupid, some girl gets upset with boyfriend or some boy gets hurt by a girlfriend and sneaks out a parents car, heck maybe has a couple of beers.
Police officer, stops the kid, has a chat, serious chat, and instead of hauling them in and all the hassles.
Takes the kid home reminding them "everybody gets one time, and you just used yours" and that kid straightens up and flies right.


Bikes are hard to see, just by nature.
Even those raised around bikes even drive bikes, have been surprised by a bike being where it was.

It happens, just like it does with 18 wheelers on the road, all those miles and years of experience, and 18 wheeler can miss passenger vehicle or Bike, and when the Semi Rig is driving a Bike or passenger vehicle, messes up with a Semi Rig.

Difference is, back them one could signal to Bike "OOPs, damn, I screwed up" and the Biker did not chase you down to kick your butt.
Nor did a passenger car if a Biker signaled "Whoa Dude, I came up on you a bit hard, my fault, sorry dude".

Common Courtesy and Respect and other Values are not in Society today as they once were.
Here on THR, we read posts and replies, and how blood lust and road rage is shared.
Even here on THR we have hypocrites, same person that got chased down and yelled at in a "road rage" as they made an honest mistake, will post how they will chase someone else down with twin Deagles blasting.


I remember not long ago, a kid, just being a kid, had this metal toy dump truck.
The mom was carrying this kid, and that little boy was at the stage of wagging that toy dumb truck everywhere.

He dropped that dump truck smack dab on the tank of a Bike, and it scratched it.
He did notmean to, the mom was doing the best she could , and life happens.

This mom, gets the truck picked up, sees the scratch and does not scold the kid, just a kid, if anything her fault for being where she was in relation to bike.

Got a young lady, with a little boy and she approaches and sincerely tells them what happens.
This over 50 couple on this Bike.

One can imagine what all this mom must have felt.
She is standing there, with this couple in denim, he with a ponytail, beard and his wife dressed in denim and vest too.

Little boy does not know, he thinks something is wrong, with his mom's tone and body language and this couple he sees...he is not sure, they are strangers.

"Ma'am, you could have left and never come in to tell us, lets go out and look and not do this inside the store" the wife said, her husband nodding and trying to let the little boy know he thought the toy truck was cool.

Biker couple would take the offer for this mom to pay for fixing, said it happens, they were kids once and messed up by accident too.

Little boy figured everything was all right.
Biker couple offered to let the boy sit on the bike, he liked that.
Fired it up, his eyes got real big, and not sure until he was shown the throttle and what it would do.
Oh the bike going "vroom" and "thump-thump" when he did the throttle was was really neat to the boy.

He let his mom hold his truck, and when handed back to her, he did reach for his truck.
"You trying to get my boy to talk me into a Harley already? this mom asked, sorta laughing.

"Well yeah, they can't start too young, get 'em Bike toy " Biker couple said.

Guess what, that little boy got a toy Bike, and they have run into the Biker couple again.

"Listen you two" this mom said in seeing them again "I need to go out and kick your Bike over, this brat had to have this toy bike, everyone in the store knew he wanted it, and you would not believe how embarrassed I was".

Biker couple knew she was teasing and understood how a little boy can be in a store when they see and want something, especially when a bit tired , hungry and fussy.

Younger mom, raised right, with values.
Biker couple, same way.

Just too many folks today would have left and not fessed up, much less offered to pay for damages.

[eliphalet]

Heck, even real outlaws on bikes don't mess with another bike that belongs to a law abiding person. Lotta Hmmmmmm, that depends on a buncha better left unsaids in that statement.
Real outlaws are just that real outlaws. I have in the past become friends and held a high respect with men that the world would call "outlaw bikers" that had their own code perhaps, but IMO were very honorable men, but dishonest deeds don't stop just cause a guy rides. Bad apples are in every basket.

[The Tourist]

Real outlaws are just that real outlaws

Yes, and no. In the real sense of the word, I'm an "outlaw." In the older jargon, "outlaw" simply meant someone who had never joined the AMA. However, my MC is considered "non-outlaw" meaning we are not 1%ers.

Now, to an average citizen, a Mongol, a CMA member and myself driving by would all look the same. And while those fine distinctions mean nothing to the average citizen, they mean the world to me.

he didn't wanna take it across the desert so he stayed home

No worries here. Every part, and I mean 100% of every part, nut, bolt and lockwasher is a genuine Harley-Davidson part. If you could find a 2004 engine, transmission and frame--and copied the recent picture of Betty--you could build a duplicate motorcycle right out of the parts catalog.

My reason is simple. I'm an iron-butt. If I mangle something riding through East T-Shirt, Wyoming, I can get up and running with the exact parts that were broken.

Additionally, being a former HD mechanic, (knowing that Harley used to trounce Master Lock every year in metallurgy awards) I'm satisfied that I can find custom parts that won't fold up.

If you're going to buy a new front end, why buy a ******-Matic 305 re-enforced balsa wood model when I can get a CVO model right from the dealership?

Heck, I'll bet even some bikers here didn't know Betty was 100% HD.