Mexican violence- 2A's fault?


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thorn726
April 22, 2008, 08:49 PM
there's the link, i don't even want to post the article.
basically our 2A rights are arming all of Mexico's gangs, so im sure the argument is we should give up all our rights for them

not sure if they bothered to determine where the guns came from, the article seems to just make a big assumption, over 90% of their guns from US?

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4695848&page=1

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Zoogster
April 22, 2008, 08:56 PM
Some of them do come from America. Many come from corrupt military and police sources, or are "stolen" from various facilities. Others come from south of thier border from other government sources or organizations. A full auto AK goes for a few hundred bucks in many parts of latin America.

Personaly I don't really see a problem with it. A government that wants to disarm most of its people and limit them to very puny calibers so they can come in with paramilitary storm troopers and prevail at any time should have illicit sources of guns being used against them.

If our government banned most guns people would still make thier own, military and police sources for firearms would make thier way to the black market, and foriegn sources would be a good thing. :neener:

After all that is the whole purpose of firearms in the militia sense. To make everyone capable of killing anyone, so all must respect eachother and balance eachother out.

People in body armor and armored vehicles change that intended balance unless the population also has arms that can defeat it.

Car Knocker
April 22, 2008, 08:58 PM
The media has been running this story for months now. The Mexican government seems to have a good PR firm.

mekender
April 22, 2008, 09:04 PM
if the Mexican government would close its side of the border, this wouldn't be a problem... and since its obvious that the US wont close their side, the Mexicans should step up and solve their problem and ours at the same time

Standing Wolf
April 22, 2008, 09:23 PM
Frankly, I think we should be sending arms and ammunition to Mexico in support of a revolution. That country's oligarchy deserves to be overthrown and replaced with representative government.

HighVelocity
April 22, 2008, 09:32 PM
Hey Mexico, send all the illegal guns back to the US and we'll send all your illegal migrants back to you. We'll keep ours, you keep yours.

rdhood
April 22, 2008, 10:46 PM
Crimes and violence perpetrated with guns is always the fault of the person who committed the crime. Blaming it on the gun or the law takes the responsibility of the crime away from the perp.

PTK
April 22, 2008, 10:53 PM
"Bad language - 1A's fault?"

They get higher quality military weapons than what we can get here in the USA legally. Even had a few spotted with full auto P90s.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
April 22, 2008, 10:55 PM
Oh yeah, I'm sure the drug dealers would be armed with only OC spray and water guns if it weren't for the evil USA's 2nd amendment.

Frankly, I think we should be sending arms and ammunition to Mexico in support of a revolution. That country's oligarchy deserves to be overthrown and replaced with representative government.

Absolutely; Amen, +1!

jfountain2
April 22, 2008, 11:02 PM
how did they get past all those purchase restrictions and waiting periods and back ground checks? I mean I am sure those mexicans did not come to our country illegally and then buy or steal illlegal weapons and smuggle them back into a country as peacful as mexico...

macadore
April 22, 2008, 11:14 PM
Right

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4144686.stm

Zangetsu
April 22, 2008, 11:21 PM
They get higher quality military weapons than what we can get here in the USA legally. Even had a few spotted with full auto P90s.

They just know who to talk to and have the money to pay for the bootlegs. This isn't very surprising...I mean really, is it that much of a shock that once again, in a place where most/all guns are illegal, once again criminals find ways of obtaining firearms?


Even had a few spotted with full auto P90s.

You know, that makes me jealous; the only reason I don't have a PS90 now is that the PS90 is not the P90; still might be fun to shoot, but what I think makes it such a cool firearm is how compact it is (which you can't fully appreciate when you have a 16" barrel forced on you) and how well it stays on target when firing on full auto (which you also can't appreciate...unless you're a mexican drug dealer who bought it illegally (which raises another question...how the hell do guns like that get on the black market?!))

Bezoar
April 22, 2008, 11:31 PM
americas 2nd amendment is not the reason for the mexican cartels arming its soldiers with american made weapons.

The war on drugs is the reason. WHY? so many billions of dollars of military hardware has been sent south of the border to arm anti drug units. and alot of the people in anti drug units in mehico are also on the cartel pay rolls. and if officer jose needs a few bucks, its easy to have a few dozen m16a2s be deemed "unrepariable" and put on the scrapped list while officer jose takes them to the local cartel for a lot of cash in his pocket.

ConstitutionCowboy
April 22, 2008, 11:55 PM
If Mexico acknowledged and protected the right of the people of Mexico to keep and bear arms, most of the gang violence would eventually fade away because the people would no longer be unarmed and unable to defend themselves.

Woody

Dan Forrester
April 23, 2008, 12:08 AM
I hope Mexico gets flooded with guns. After all according to Article 10 or “Mexico’s” constitution:

“Every man has the right to have and to carry arms for his security and legitimate defense.”

Dan

jakemccoy
April 23, 2008, 03:51 AM
Never have I seen so much illogical BS than with the Second Amendment and anti-gun arguments. It's too exhausting, and I happen to have lots of stamina.

dave_pro2a
April 23, 2008, 04:35 AM
If they can't keep illegal aliens out of the United States, then we can't keep our guns out of Mexico.

Great, maybe now the Mexican government will help us build a wall... 'for the poor police.'

The Tourist
April 23, 2008, 04:41 AM
Frankly, I think we should be sending arms and ammunition to Mexico in support of a revolution.

Get a print of Picasso's "Guernica." You'll love it.

Alex45ACP
April 23, 2008, 04:56 AM
Again here we see the connection between drug prohibition and victim disarmament laws. As usual, instead of simply eliminating the problems caused by drug prohibition by abolishing drug prohibition, the problems created by drug prohibition are being blamed on the lack of victim disarmament laws. And this will obviously result in stricter victim disarmament laws.

In other words - if you support drug prohibition, you support gun control.

Also, it is irritating when politicians blame high crime rates on the fact that their laws are "circumvented" by people bringing in firearms from outside jurisdictions. This ignores the fact that the crime rates in these other jurisdictions are always much lower.

PTK
April 23, 2008, 05:01 AM
Zangetsu

I'd wager at least some of those P90s were purchased by government entities here, in Mexico, or in other countries and "walked away". Guaranteed they're using the good ammo too, not the soft plastic pointed stuff US citizens have to use.

Zangetsu
April 23, 2008, 05:05 AM
This ignores the fact that the crime rates in these other jurisdictions are always much lower.

It also ignores the possibility that those guns were obtained/transported illegally, in which case the gun control measures on the books are already as ineffective as any additional ones would be. If something is illegal and people do it anyway, obviously throwing more laws at people who will ignore them anyway won't work. Man, I love logic...how can this not make sense to everyone?

TAB
April 23, 2008, 05:33 AM
Hey Mexico, send all the illegal guns back to the US and we'll send all your illegal migrants back to you. We'll keep ours, you keep yours.

sounds like a plan to me

csmkersh
April 23, 2008, 10:16 AM
mekender wrote in this post (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4430630&postcount=4) that, " if the Mexican government would close its side of the border, this wouldn't be a problem.

I heard that the US is planning of spending a billion or two building a fence along Mexico's sourthern border to stop the flow of illegals from Central America into Mexico. Sheeeeee.

mbt2001
April 23, 2008, 11:40 AM
over 90% of their guns from US?

Yep. Their military and police buy from us... I guess to a limited extent so do their criminals. This isn't the 2a's fault, it is the fault of the US Government for not properly securing the borders.

If Mexico wants to complain about it, we should ask them if the want to eat their cake too...

newbie4help
April 23, 2008, 12:01 PM
Gun control will not be effective at eliminating the supply. We need to end the pointless "war on drugs" to stop this sort of violence. See my post in the mandatory gun ownership thread.

ArmedBear
April 23, 2008, 12:02 PM
Mexico is screwed. Everything about the place is screwed.

The government and cops make Chicago look really good.

The US, if anything, keeps the place from imploding by providing much of the country's income, legal, illegal, and semi-legal.

RP88
April 23, 2008, 12:11 PM
the majority of those countries' money supply is in the hands of drug lords. I'm pretty sure finding the right person from Europe (Russian and French mobs, Hamas and other politically powerful terror groups, etc. etc.) is all that is needed to secure expensive state-of-the-art guns in high numbers.

I'm also fairly certain that, if these drug lords can afford submarines to use in drug transports, then I'm pretty sure that they are just a stock sell away from opening their own personal ammo and gun manufacturing factories.

if guns in the US were to be outlawed, then we would start blaming Mexico back for illegal guns found here. We should just be glad that your average gang criminals havent fully caught on to the full-auto AK surplus that Latin America has.

308win
April 23, 2008, 12:15 PM
The Mexican government is unwilling and incapable of securing their borders in either direction and it is every one's fault but theirs. We need leadership willing to develop and enact foreign policy that will address the problem regardless of the Mexican government's likes, wants, deficiencies, or objectives.

macadore
April 23, 2008, 12:47 PM
I'm also fairly certain that, if these drug lords can afford submarines to use in drug transports.

That’s not necessary. They can fly helicopters under the radar and past the check points.

TexasFats
April 23, 2008, 03:49 PM
Mexico cannot secure its border with us. If they did, then they would have to admit that their way of dealing with poverty in that country is to send as many of their poor north to the US as possible. Then, their poor can work in this country and send money back to their families in Mexico. IIRC, about 30-40% of Mexico's national income is from monies sent there by Mexicans who are working in the US.

MechAg94
April 23, 2008, 03:50 PM
I know an engineer from Mexico. This subject came up one time. I had to give him the basic run down of what you have to do to buy a gun in the US and what you have to do to buy a full auto. He just laughed. He said people down there have the impression that we have no regulation of gun purchases whatsoever. He especially didn't realize that all legal full auto guns and other destructive devices were so hard to get and expensive. I told him my opinion was that there probably were illegal gun smuggled to mexico, but they were likely illegal already.

I sort of wish we didn't have all that regulation, but that is the way it is presently.

OMGWTFBBQ
April 23, 2008, 04:02 PM
The institutions of Mexico are rotten to the core, that is the problem.

The cops are corrupt, the "justice" system is a joke, they discarded their constitution after they were done using it as toilet paper, and the people living there invariably get the short end of the stick, while the crooks(politicians and drug lords alike) line their pockets.

Pat-inCO
April 23, 2008, 04:32 PM
"Mexican violence- 2A's fault?"

Not only NO but BLEEEEEP no.

Liberals seldom allow facts to interfere with their hysteria.

brighamr
April 23, 2008, 05:39 PM
Hey Mexico, send all the illegal guns back to the US and we'll send all your illegal migrants back to you. We'll keep ours, you keep yours.

Yet another +1

ArmedBear
April 23, 2008, 05:44 PM
The institutions of Mexico are rotten to the core, that is the problem.

The cops are corrupt, the "justice" system is a joke, they discarded their constitution after they were done using it as toilet paper, and the people living there invariably get the short end of the stick, while the crooks(politicians and drug lords alike) line their pockets.

Those of us near the border pretty much post the same thing, over and over.

What bothers me is that our President is meeting right now with the executives of Canada and Mexico, and they're all chatting, as if Mexico had a damn thing in common with the US and Mexico.

It's a Big Lie, and our government (Republicrats and Demicans alike) are perpetuating it.

Pretending that diplomatic relations with Mexico are the same as those with Canada is bad for US interests. Makes me wonder who else is on the Mexican government payroll...

thorn726
April 23, 2008, 05:46 PM
YEP got to love it.

it just makes me laugh to think people believe any sort of black market can ever be shut down.

i imagine we could go ahead and blame the presence of all these illegals on the fact that they are here to get guns? ??

let's just go for the most bizarre, unworkable solution-

and of course blame all the rest of the world's problems on the fat Americans

ConstitutionCowboy
April 23, 2008, 09:49 PM
Why is there a black market in guns in Mexico? Because there is no open market in guns in Mexico.

Woody

dance varmint
April 24, 2008, 09:16 PM
"To the south, the Union has a point of contact with the empire of Mexico; and it is thence that serious hostilities may one day be expected to arise. But for a long while to come, the uncivilized state of the Mexican people, the depravity of their morals, and their extreme poverty, will prevent that country from ranking high amongst nations." -- Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America, 1835

So, no.

Crunker1337
April 24, 2008, 10:31 PM
If you have money, you can find a way to get guns. And as there's a lot of money involved in gang-banging, unfortunately, gang-bangers will find a way to get guns.

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