[lvcat2004]

So I needed a relatively short barreled, high shot shell capacity shotgun for my "tactical shotgun class" next month, and all I have is a Benelli Supernova 26" that I use for hunting, so I went out and bought a Mossy 500 Persuader (I think) with 20" barrel and 8 shot capacity at Big 5 for something like $260 on sale, that was the good part.

I went out to the range and shot some skeet, 100 shells total, about 30 in my Benelli and 70 in Mossberg.

After the first shot, it failed to extract, I mean, it wont' pump back....I don't know what was going on, but I took the barrel out, took the empty shell out and pushed the bolt back and it finally worked....I was worried....I realized that I have to pump it back pretty forcefully, but as I shot more, it became smoother. Mossy is a bit lighter and doesnt' have the fancy shock absorbing stock that Supernova has, so recoil was a noticeably more, but all in all, it worked ok after the first incident.

Clean up...my goodness. I did shoot about twice as many shells, but it was DIRTY!! In addition, taking it apart was a PITA....unless all the stars were lined up, it won't come apart, and putting it back together was even worse. It has so many parts in there that I had to line up to make it "come together", bolt, bolt slide, 2 cartridge stops and everything just have to be lined up right. Then I cleaned my Benelli, or so I thought, but it was so clean that I really didn't have to. It has two parts....you take two pins out, all you have is trigger assembly and bolt assembly...that's it!! and it disassembles/reassembles in no time, no fussing around. I've cleaned my Benelli many times before and I guess I was spoiled...Mossy is about 10 times more difficult to clean and re-assemble. I know that a lot of you like Mossberg 500, but I'm not so sure about this....it is nice and slim/light, but I just find the fit/finish/engineering/build/design of the Benelli to be far superior for not THAT much more money....am I alone....?

[CaptMac]

Any excuse to buy a new gun os good. Why not buy a second Super Nova with short barrel and magazine extention, or a magazine extention and a short barrel and use the one you have for the class, and then put the 26" barrel back on take the magazine extention off and put your plug back in for hunting?

[jmr40]

I think the Nova and Supernova are the best designed pumps out there. If I was just starting shooting I would probably buy one and be happy. I have used the 870 too long however and the Benelli just does not feel right to me. It is too thick. I tried the Mossberg as well and did not care for it at all.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I tend to lump Mossbergs and Savage rifles in the same catagory---workable and give decent service---but I just can't get past the overall cheapness of them---even the cheap 870 Express is ten times the gun a Mossberg is.

Had one of the original Nova's--was a decent working gun--just the thickness and rattles didn't really let me take to it like others.

[GTSteve03]

I had a Supernova Tactical for a short time. It was a nicely built gun, and had a smooth action. However, the stock's LOP was WAY too long for me. And, since Benelli for some reason doesn't offer a shorter stock and I can't find any aftermarket short stocks, I sold it. If it doesn't fit, I can't use it.

[9x19sig]

"even the cheap 870 Express is ten times the gun a Mossberg is."

The things people pick up from the internet never fail to amaze.

[Cosmoline]

I only cleaned my Mossy after each season. Never had a jam or other problem with it. Just leave it dirty. I remember after the 2004 fishing season when I'd done a lot of river fishing silt poured out of the action when I cleaned it. Still worked though.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Nothin internet about it----have owned all 3. Mossbergs are junk---that's why they're gone.

I was being nice in the first post.

[Ghost Tracker]

The things people pick up from the internet never fail to amaze.

Heyy...wait a second. How come an opinion (oddly not aligned with yours) is so casually dismissed as internet scuttlebutt? I like Remington 870's & don't care for Mossburgs. But that doesn't mean I believe Mossburg fans are internet handicapped...they're just mis-guided. ;)

[9x19sig]

Saying that an 870 express is ten times the gun a Mossberg is pretty ridiculous and childish, regardless of what brand you favor.

I have owned a Remington 870, a Winny 1300 and Mossbergs. They are all good shotguns and they are all easy to maintain.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I own and favor a Beretta 471.

The only reason I touch a pump is to keep my pretty gun pretty.

[stevereno1]

I've never had any problems shooting, or cleaning my worthless, junky, terrible, unrelible, Mossberg Persuader. I've shot over 500 rounds through it, and I still have had no problems with this troublesome piece of scrap metal. Every time that I load a shell into it and press the crappy trigger, the pos shoots just fine. I have had no problems in cleaning this crummy shotgun, and cannot find any reason that they sell more pump action shotguns than anyone alse in the country! I must be MAD to trust my family's safety on such a poorly designed, non-functional shotgun.

[stevereno1]

Savage rifles are accurate, and reliable, but they are ka-ka too. Spend the extra money and see if they can out-shoot a savage. Should be easy for ya'll.

[johndoe1027]

I've never had any problems shooting, or cleaning my worthless, junky, terrible, unrelible, Mossberg Persuader. I've shot over 500 rounds through it, and I still have had no problems with this troublesome piece of scrap metal. Every time that I load a shell into it and press the crappy trigger, the pos shoots just fine. I have had no problems in cleaning this crummy shotgun, and cannot find any reason that they sell more pump action shotguns than anyone alse in the country! I must be MAD to trust my family's safety on such a poorly designed, non-functional shotgun.

Same here except I've only got about 350 through mine so far. That POS always goes bang and I've never even stripped it down yet. I just spray mine out with Gun Scrubber and shoot some Hoppes to it. Now that I think about it, only done that once.

Granted, I don't hunt or shoot skeet so mine doesn't get a lot of abuse, I have a hard time finding a place to shoot it.

Still, works for me.

[lvcat2004]

hmmm....so some of you Mossy owners hardly clean it?? Perhaps I'm a bit OCD...I clean/lube my firearms after I shoot them, and I sort of enjoy it. I'm not so sure if I enjoy cleaning this Mossberg...but I'll keep it...I'll see how it goes after a few hundred more shot shells.

[throdgrain]

500 round lmao you're hardcore :p

[1911 guy]

Huh? Model 500 difficult to clean?

Maybe I'm a bit more mechanically inclined than the average bear, but this seems like one of two things. Either the "new" pump guns are designed to let the average third grader think they got it clean, or somebody didn't RTFM and is trying to do things the hard way. Just to put things in perspective, Uncle Sam uses the 500 and expects the average guy to use and maintain it. Uncle Sam also defines the average guy as having a tenth grade education.

A little opinion here, if your Benelli doesn't allow you acess to the "guts", you're not getting it clean. Junk gets back in the action when you use it, regardless of action type. Not allowing you to dismantle everything to clean it out occassionally is a design flaw in my book, not an advantage.

Just for the record, you'll find that the 500 is easier to run in a tactical course due to the topstrap safety. 870 is easy, 500 is easier. Left hand shooting should be included and it's easy to booger up your motions on a crossbolt safety when using the opposite hand.

The real question is stock fit. Personally, I appreciate the quality of an 870, but can't hit anything with one. It's also heavier than the 500. Give me a 500 and I'll start bustin' clays again. Or bunnies, or birds, or...

[9x19sig]

lvcat2004-After a few times cleaning the Mossberg it will be like second nature. As long as the bolt is placed exactly where it needs to be, it will go back together like clockwork. Watch this video and you will see what I mean:Mossberg 500 Disassembly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKbWcPdTRBI)

[ArmedBear]

Geez!

Arguing over pump shotguns is like arguing about monkey wrenches.

Use what you like and what fits you.

I kinda like US-made pumps, in part because they are US-made. There are precious few great or really desirable US-made shotguns currently in production, other than pumps or stuff I can't afford. US pump guns, though, are "best in class" or tied for best. So I figure, why not buy American when I can get something good. But I won't tell anyone else what to do.

[tmajors]

I've got an 870 express that I use for chukar hunting. Thing is BEAT UP and half held together with duct tape. Shoots and handles great. Had it for about 20 years now.

I tried to replace it with a Mossburg 500, didn't survive a season and I went back to my beat up 870.

[lvcat2004]

Huh? Model 500 difficult to clean?

Maybe I'm a bit more mechanically inclined than the average bear, but this seems like one of two things. Either the "new" pump guns are designed to let the average third grader think they got it clean, or somebody didn't RTFM and is trying to do things the hard way.

Yeah, whatever smart-ass guy 1911. I'm a surgeon, that means I can disassemble and aseemble things while it's running;) I'm not saying that I can't do it, I'm just saying that it's a "much" poorer design compared to a Benelli, unless you have never seen/disassembled a Benelli Supernova, then it might enlighten you a bit. Perhaps you have never seen an intelligently engineered "new" shotgun.

What does it matter that Mossy has armed forces contract?? That's because no one but Mossberg bid on that contract and doesn't mean a thing about the firearm. Please keep your unconstructive comments to yourself.

9x19sig, thanks for the vid. I know that it will be simpler as it's done many times, but the awkwardness compared to the Benelli was astouding IMHO for two firearms that basically do the same things.

[Ash]

Ivcat, I'm only a Forestry Consultant and published writer but have no problem with the Mossberg. Calling one of the most popular shotguns junk is silly. Mossberg sells more 500's in 6 months than Benelli sells in 2 years. 500's have been issued to law enforcement agencies and the US military for decades - and continue to be issued. The 500 has been a major seller for 45 years now. If it were junk or a mere tithe the shotgun that the 870 is, it would not have such a long and successful career.

Now, folks need not like Mossberg 500's. Fine by me. I don't like Winchester 1300's nor do I really care all that much for the fantastic plastic Novas. But, I'm not so unconstructive as to call something well established junk. But then, I am not a surgeon.

Ash

[guntotinguy]

Well to be fair and honest here,I never fired a Benelli Supernova so I couldnt make a proper comparison,but I DID watch that self-same vid after I got the Mossberg 500,yes it took me a few times of trying/effort to get it down right but it was eventual.

The Mossberg was a pain to get clean the first few times...recoil was 'felt' a little more than I expected...yet I do like it and will keep it for my HP collection's (3 12 guages,2 20's and a .410).

Hey,it can only get better,right?

[lvcat2004]

I have not used the word "junk"...please read...I thought writers read. I said it's poorly engineered. I don't care how many they sell, that says nothing about the quality of a product. Do you see how many Ford and GM cars are out there?? They are not well engineered or put together compared to some of their competitors, there is a reason why their share is shrinking and losing billions. So you think BMW's are not well engineered because you don't see as many of them, like Benelli's?

Having said that, I think my Mossberg is useable, but it's no Benelli. I'm surprised as to how many people have them and love them, perhaps they have never owned a Benelli or BMW's....or they just want to suport domestic product and are not open to new or foreign designs. Personally, I don't care where it comes from as long as it's a well engineered, quality product. Useable will do for now, but I probably won't purchase another one.

[Ash]

:rolleyes:

Come now.

Ash

[armored_pig]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKbWcPdTRBI

This video helped me a ton!

[mnrivrat]

I'm a surgeon, that means I can disassemble and aseemble things while it's running

OH BOY ! OH BOY ! This could be fun ! :evil:

AH - maybe not on the high road though . :D

[1911 guy]

lvcat2004, the issue I was addressing was the difficulty you seemed to have disassembling and reassembling your Mossberg, not any percieved difference in quality. For the record, I have used a Benelli pump and think they are a good shotgun. What I don't think is that the 500 is difficult. Let's face it, if you have the dexterity and patience to do surgery, you should have no problem with a shotgun someone with a tenth grade education can strip and reassemble.

Quote:
That's because no one but Mossberg bid on that contract
False. There are also Remington 870s' in service and as an odd coincidence to this thread, some Benelli guns, too.

I'm sorry if you took my comments as some sort of personal attack, but millions of people own and use the 500 with little complaint. There's nothing wrong with owning high end stuff, be it cars or guns, but casting unwarranted espursions on other styles or brands because of a lesser price tag is a little elitist. Your BMW may be "better engineered", but it will get you to work no better than my Chevy. But then I just work in a factory.

[Markbo]

I'm a surgeon, that means I can disassemble and aseemble things while it's running

I can disassemble and reassemble my Ford while it's running. Parts of it anyway. I am also able to use proper grammer and spell reassemble.

Surgeon my ars. Proctologist maybe.

[CZ52GUY]

...as well as 590's, a Win 1300 and a Beretta 1201FP.

I don't own an 870 but my shooting partner has a couple...fine shotguns.

The 500 disassembly takes some practice, but not hard to master. I find that most outings doesn't require that level of diligence in cleaning.

About 1/2 my 500's needed a 200rd Break-in to get a decent action...the other 1/2 were fine out of the box.

My 500's typically don't care for the cheap WalMart Winchester shot...they do fine with the black-box Winchester, just about any Federal, Remington...Estate shot use has been with mixed results.

I'm short with short arms so I've used the Hogue short stock and added a Limbsaver pad...gets me to 13" LOP and a very pleasant shooting experience from 7.5 shot to the Brenneke "Grizzly Tamer" slugs.

I've got some with SF forends, others with the Hogue Forend (I like the feel). Most have some sort of Side-Saddle for on-gun access to fresh ammo'.

My Mossy's run, so do all the others including my Nova's which I very much enjoy. I like the sights better on the Nova (especially for 100yd slug shots)...the stock is long but the overlapping forend lets me pump 'em just fine with a more aggressive stance. The Nova's typically pattern better with Buck' which is no huge surprise given the difference in barrels.

With a good break-in and some practice your 500 should perform just fine for your class experience. Make sure you find out what it likes for ammo'...try to put at least 200 shells through it ahead of the class (of various types) and think about respecting it for what it is...a decent pump at a good price which has served many quite well.

In the end, your findings will be your findings...if the 500 doesn't work out for you...should be able to recoup enough to get you into something else. I've found that most go-bang implements are like shoes...need to fit the user/operator.

Safe Shooting,

CZ52'
p.s. 870 (although a fine weapon) 10 times the gun indeed...then my 3-shot drill on steel with an 870 should be .12ish with the 870...yeah, right :neener:

[Wetawd]

I own a 500 and a Nova, and I never had any trouble with my Nova but the Mosberg I do have problems with (at least it's not an 870):evil:.

unless all the stars were lined up
This comment is not exactly true, you have to hold your jaw at the right angle and attempt to force your teeth out the front of your face with your tongue at the same time... and it has to a full moon. Only then after an hour or two can even begin to hope for success.

[lvcat2004]

Well, I think those Mossy lovers are taking things personally, and just because there are a lot of 500's in circulation, it doesn't make them great, but useable, yes, I agree. I was simply comparing it to my Supernova, and in my opinion, Benelli is much better engineered, and anyone who does not have a preconceived bias would probably agree, and I didn't go into this biased, I've heard great things about 500, so I bought it. But let's face it, 500's mechanism is not near as elegant as the Benelli, and after having shot 100 or so rounds continuously on Benelli, I have never found it to be so dirty as I found it on shooting 60 rounds on 500, and I'm not even getting into build quality. And I'm not comparing Ferrari to Chevy here, the price diffence between a 500 and Nova or Supernova is not that significant. I'm hoping that my experience may help those who are considering pucharsing a low-priced pump shotgun.

1911 Guy, I was not referring to more recent Benelli M4 Super 90 or a few Remington's out there--I know that Benilli, Remington, and perhaps some winchester shotguns are in service, but that's not THE contract I'm referring to. As you know, Mossberg and its fans like to boast about passing the 3000 round test which apparently got them the contract, but (from what I read), Remington 870 was not submitted for this trial and apparently no one else bid on that contract since they knew that they were going to be underbid by Mossy, but this was long time ago. I would've gotten the M4, but my instructor specifically told me to avoid pistol grips since the ergonomics are apparently not correct for what we will be doing, and since the 500 or so cheap, I figure I'll give it a shot.

Markbo, get a life, or go to the "the lowroad" if you have nothing constructive to add.

[lvcat2004]

Surgeon my ars. Proctologist maybe.

Oh by the way, I am no proctologist, but proctologists or colorectal surgeons go through a fellowship after general surgery residency, meaning they are MORE trained than general surgeons. If you are ignorant you may want to keep your mouth shut/keyboard silent.

[chas08]

Clean up...my goodness. I did shoot about twice as many shells, but it was DIRTY!! In addition, taking it apart was a PITA....unless all the stars were lined up, it won't come apart, and putting it back together was even worse.

I've been following this thread somewhat. I'm sure we can all agree that a sure fire way to get a mans hackles up is to insult his favorite "shootin iron". I don't own a Mossberg so I'm not defending them, I've cleaned a few for friends. I'm just curious. I'm sure you clean the area of the incision before you perform surgury. Did you clean your new Mossberg before you took it shooting? Since aside from rolling around in the dirt or mud with it, the only common denominator in dirtying a shotgun is the ammo. Was the ammo the same? new guns have a generous coating of preservatives applied at the factory because you never know how long they are going to set before being put to use. (kinda like waiting in the emergency room) This gunk can cause a lot of functional problems that is really not the guns fault. I once owned a benelli sbe 1 that I now feel was probably a lemon. But I won't give benelli a second chance because of that experience. If cleaning the gun makes you unhappy, get rid of it. Just don't trade it for an Ithaca 37 because tearing it down makes a Mossy seem like childs play. :)

[Sergeant Sabre]

There will always be people that think the 500 is junk and that the 870 Express is awesome.

Then there are people that think the 870 Express, with it's plastic and MIM parts, and lack of hand-finishing is junk, and that the 870 Wingmaster is awesome.

Then there are people that think anything less than an 870 Police is junk.

Really, I doubt there is that much functional difference between them at all.

[lvcat2004]

Cleaned before shooting, same exact ammo. That has nothing to do with cleaning incisions. ;) besides, "I" don't clean/prep before the incision, that's what circulating nurses are for.

[ECVMatt]

" If you are ignorant you may want to keep your mouth shut/keyboard silent."

This is unacceptable behavior. You started this thread with rather harsh comments. Now you seem to get upset when others offer a different point of view. We all know how you feel about these two shotguns, so just leave it alone and move on.

[mnrivrat]

Here is an attempt to put the pointy sticks away and make this thread into something usefull .

Points brought out by the OP are noted and of value to me. I am not all that familiar with the Nova as I pretty much retired from gun repair prior to seeing many of them. I remember a couple of them coming in for repair and they seemed to be, for the most part, well built and of good design. I do remember thinking however that they didn't live up to the hype I had been hearing , but that is all premature because they haven't been on the market nearly as long as the Mossberg 500.

I do know a lot about the Mossberg however. I think there is little doubt that the early extraction problem incountered was due to the preservative used inside the chamber. It is likely that if the chamber had been cleaned prior to shooting that the problem would have not occured. As to the assembly and dis-assembly of the Mossberg, I assure you I can do it blindfolded. While that makes it seem pretty easy or simple, perhaps the Nova is even better ? Not a problem for me to think it might be.

Is the Mossberg a bad gun ? Absolutely not - and although it's design is certainly dated it is far from obsolete. There are many who believe if it's not broke - don't fix it . The Mossberg 500 design is not broke.

That said, I will also accept the possibility that the Nova is an even better design - I have nothing to dispute that, and there is nothing the matter with improvement. If you like the Nova over the Mossberg - buy it ! Perhaps you will find ,as the OP suggests, there is enough differnce for you to be happy spending the extra money.

The Mossberg has always been a gun for people on a budget. Nice to know that we have an affordable choice that works well. Perhaps the OP will even gain more respect for them now that he has one, and can continue to use it over a longer time period ( give it a chance - :D )

[md7]

hello lvcat2004,

you have 2 solid shotguns. my advice would be to give the 500 a chance. shoot it, clean it, get to know it. the 500 is a "budget" gun, but it is a budget gun that does work and works well. and it will probably get smoother and better with use.

[Ash]

Benellis are doubtlessly good shotguns. It does remind me of the time, though, when I, with my 870 (before getting my 500) was on a duck hunt with several other foresters. One was a consultant out of a major city who brought a Nova on the hunt. We hadn't gotten any ducks that morning in the rice paddy and so decided to do some geese along a levee. We lay against a levee and waited for he geese to come in beside a drained patty. A flight came in and we let them have it. My 870 brought down two geese and his Nova brought down but one. We ribbed the guy, that he couldn't get more than my express could get. In the end, it was the guy behind the shotgun that made the most difference.

Ash

[1KPerDay]

I am also able to use proper grammer and spell reassemble.

But not "grammar." :D

/back to lurking

[ArmedBear]

Such a fuss over a which disposable shotguns someone likes...

[XDKingslayer]

I have to agree with everyone that says Mossberg's are cheap. They are. I have an old Mossberg 500, pre-1984 or when ever it was they started drilling and tapping the tops of the receivers with two holes. It's a tank compared to today's Mossbergs.

[ArmedBear]

Who cares if they're not tanks? They're priced so you can use them until you destroy them. (Local store has them for $249 with 28" barrel and 18" barrel)

How long do you need to use a shotgun to get your $250 out of it? Surely, it will last 10 times that long.

[Markbo]

Oh by the way, I am no proctologist, but proctologists or colorectal surgeons go through a fellowship after general surgery residency, meaning they are MORE trained than general surgeons. If you are ignorant you may want to keep your mouth shut/keyboard silent.

lvcat2004 - I was making a joke - obviously you are not quick enough to pick up on the humor. Perhaps if you are too uneducated to know how to spell you should keep your keyboard silent too.

Asswipe

[lvcat2004]

^^^ funny coming from someone who knows his "grammAr" ;)

In all seriousness, I found most posts to be useful and insightful. It's unfortunate that there are some immature people who troll around to ruin a good conversation by criticizing internet typos/grammar and make trifle points that are not useful.

As I said, I didn't mean to offend you 500 lovers. I don't think that many people have had a chance to compare a new design such as a Nova/Supernova with a somewhat dated design. I have to say that if you really insist that 500's design is simple, you have to see what "Benelli simple" is. I don't completely agree with if it's not broke, don't fix it theory either. There is a reason why Toyota is selling more cars with their spirit of KAIZEN, while some domestic auto manufacturers are leading the way for self-destruction by being too complacent and non-progressive, not just from design standpoing, but QA, manufacturing, marketing, etc. I'm always up for something newer/better.

[Ash]

Man, no offense but your posts come off as being very effete and pompous. Even were I a dyed in the wool 870 guy, I would be very turned off by your contributions. You like the Nova? Fine by me. Get over the fact that not everybody believes the way you do. Others can actually like the 500, and I mean actually LIKE it, perform well with it (care to sit in a blind with me?) and actually prefer it over something else. It's not the end of the world if you fail, in your established wisdom (you are, after all, a surgeon - care to discuss IQ's?), to convince others of your passion.

Ash

[JNewell]

My take based on owning both - leaving aside issues like what fits (physically) or personal prefs for ergonomics:

870PM and somewhat older 870WM are better guns than the 500 by a big margin.

870 Express and maybe current production 870WM is closer to a draw and when you factor in the price differences probably really is a draw.

Earlier WMs are plentiful and so very reasonably priced and probably the best value of all of these choices. For new guns, the 500 is a good value on the price/performance scale.

YMMV...

[Dave McCracken]

Play nice, guys, or watch this thread go away....

[scythefwd]

Ivcat2004
To get the barrel off a little easier, completely open the action. Unscrew the retaining nut, and as you pull the barrel off, move the action towards closed. You will find that once the action is in the position it likes, the barrel will just come free. Taking the barrel off of the 500 shouldn't take you more than 30-40 seconds, depending on how tight you have the retaining nut.

[dm1333]

I've owned my Mossberg for 14 years. The first 4 years I used it for grouse and duck hunting plus a little fun shooting in the summers. Then for the next 8 years it got heavy year round use, grouse, duck and quail, with lots of skeet and trap shooting in the spring and fall. For the last two I have tapered off on the clay pigeon shooting but the gun still gets a lot of use. I have never had a failure to feed or fire, and the only failure to extract was my fault. I'll keep my "cheap" gun with the handy safety and action bar release :D I use the 870 on duty and am not impressed!

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

OMG, like, everybody knows Mossbergs suck because they have aluminum receivers....

... just like the .50bmg barrett 99.

[/sarcasm]

hahahah

[JNewell]

...and Browning Golds, and Winchester SX2s, and Beretta AL390s and AL391s... :D

[Markbo]

^^^ funny coming from someone who knows his "grammAr"

DOH!! http://forum.rscnet.org/images/smilies/homersimpson.gif