Anyone want full-auto?


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Min
August 15, 2003, 11:23 AM
I'm really thinking about getting a MAC 10/9mm for my first full-auto. Man this will be fun. It's the only full-auto I can really afford right now with prices around $1500.

There's an outfit that sells .22 lr kit for it, which I think is a GREAT idea.


Anyone else want full-auto?

http://www.subcal.com/M10.html

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FPrice
August 15, 2003, 11:26 AM
"Anyone else want full-auto?"

YES!

I have always wanted a Thompson M1A1, just cannot afford one right now.

After the last Westfield Sportsmans Club Machine Gun Shoot, an MP-5 has been second on my list. Nice little gun.

Something else to dream about.

:rolleyes:

Min
August 15, 2003, 11:29 AM
BTW, this is the only reason I will try to incorporate myself. Local LEO will not sign.

Deepdiver
August 15, 2003, 11:29 AM
Not really......3 shot bursts are useful, but full auto is a waste of ammo in most (but not all) circumstances. It can be a lot of fun though if someone else is buying the ammo.

Min
August 15, 2003, 11:31 AM
Not expensive if you get the .22 lr kit. .22 lr at 1000+ rpm - fun!

4v50 Gary
August 15, 2003, 11:32 AM
You betcha I would, but I live in a communist state that knows me better than to trust me with one. :mad: Guess I have to move. :)

keyhole
August 15, 2003, 11:33 AM
:evil:



Lotsa fun to shoot, and even better when someone else buys the ammo!

Now .22,,,, that's a good idea:D

jsalcedo
August 15, 2003, 11:36 AM
I like them and would buy as many as I could afford.

Right now I have to settle for the MP5 and greasegun rentals at my local range.

45R
August 15, 2003, 11:37 AM
Duh!!! :) Full auto would make me a better marksman :)

ACP230
August 15, 2003, 12:17 PM
I was shooting a Madsen M50 and a Reising M50 on Monday.
Posted about it on the rifle forum under the title "Monday Range Report."

Full auto is fun. Semi auto often makes more sense and means more hits.

AJ Dual
August 15, 2003, 12:39 PM
BTW, this is the only reason I will try to incorporate myself. Local LEO will not sign.

I thought there was some sort of extra form, or ATF process you could fill out if you were 100% legal to own Class III but CLEO wouldn't sign just for the hell of it, and get approval anyway?

Or am I imagining that?

Mark Tyson
August 15, 2003, 12:42 PM
You mean you can have a full auto firearm if you own a coropration? Where is that in the NFA? Can you have a post-86 gun?

Schuey2002
August 15, 2003, 01:55 PM
Anyone else want full-auto?
YES, I do!!! Open up a Heckler & Koch WEAPONS SYSTEM catalog, flip to any page, point at any picture of a full-auto HK, and you'll get some idea of what I "want"... :evil:

John Ross
August 15, 2003, 02:36 PM
"You mean you can have a full auto firearm if you own a coropration? Where is that in the NFA? Can you have a post-86 gun?"

Only if the corporation has SOT status (is a Class 3 dealer or manufacturer) and gets a demo letter.

What min is talking about is the Form 4 LE signoff on transferables where the local chief refuses to sign. The solution is to form a corporation and have the corporation buy the gun. A corporation doesn't have fingerprints and can't be photographed, so the back of the Form 4, including the LE cert, is Not Applicable.

The gun belongs to the corporation. If the corporation is sold, the gun goes to the new owner, along with all the other corporate assets.

The corporate officers can shoot the gun, along with any employees they designate, just as happens in large ammo companies that have MGs to function-test their ammo.

JR

geekWithA.45
August 15, 2003, 02:48 PM
Sure, I'd love one, but not at the current prices.

BTW, a .22lr happyFunAutoPlinker is an excellent idea!

Why? Because ITS FUN, DURNIT! It won't have much defensive or hunting use, but it would be FUN!

Min
August 15, 2003, 02:51 PM
Thanks, John Ross for answering that question for me.

Skunkabilly
August 15, 2003, 02:56 PM
http://www.hkpro.com/mp5kbrieffire.jpg

[Nods]

444
August 15, 2003, 02:57 PM
My answer to that is maybe.
If you are giving them away, then yes I will take as many as you will give me.
If the prices came down to 1/4 what they are now, then I might buy some more.
I own a submachine gun now. It doesn't pull my chain. I think I have fired it twice since I bought it and often forget I own it.
What pulls my chain about shooting is hitting something; accuracy. Making a lot of noise and smoke doesn't really appeal to me. Putting a hammer into the "A" zone does appeal to me. Putting hammers into the "A" zone of three targets in five seconds appeals to me, but I can do that with a handgun or carbine.
Prior to buying my sub-gun I had fired a lot of full auto weapons, so maybe I am jaded. When I shot my subgun for the first time I pretty much yawned and said, big deal.
If they were a lot cheaper, there are a lot of full-autos that I think are cool and wouldn't mind owning, but not really because they are full-auto. For example, I would love to own an M16. I like the M16 platform, I own a lot of AR15s, I had an M16 in the Army. So, I would like one, but I doubt I would ever fire it on full-auto.

anapex
August 15, 2003, 03:23 PM
I've personally always have wanted a Thompson and BAR, Nothing like sending a wall of .45 and 30-06 downrange.

Skunkabilly
August 15, 2003, 03:44 PM
Full auto?

http://img.news.naver.com/image/stoo/200105/20010525_11_01.jpg

Who, me? :p

Byron Quick
August 15, 2003, 04:09 PM
Not really......3 shot bursts are useful, but full auto is a waste of ammo in most (but not all) circumstances. It can be a lot of fun though if someone else is buying the ammo.

I can fire reliable, consecutive three shot bursts with my Uzi...accurately, too.

Trigger control.

A young friend with better reaction time can reliably shoot double taps with it.

Hkmp5sd
August 15, 2003, 04:47 PM
Min,

There are other people that can sign the CLEO autograph if the local police chief/sheriff refuses. You might want to look into that before going the corporate route.

I thought there was some sort of extra form, or ATF process you could fill out if you were 100% legal to own Class III but CLEO wouldn't sign just for the hell of it, and get approval anyway?

Nope. Unless you get the CLEO autograph, the only way to get an NFA weapon is to incorporate. There are a few ways to pressure the CLEO into signing if he refuses or you can locate someone else that is elligible to sign.

Byron Quick
August 15, 2003, 04:54 PM
ATF accepts the police chief of the town you live in, the sheriff or equivalent of the county you live in or the district attorney of the court district you live in. Any I've missed, people?

Hawkman
August 15, 2003, 05:13 PM
I had an SWD M11/9 a while back. Rate of fire is incredible - impossible for me to empty a whole mag into a target at 25 feet in one burst. Worked on trigger control for awhile and could squeeze off 5 round bursts fairly consistently.

They ain't as much fun as Uzi's but the price sure is right!

Hkmp5sd
August 15, 2003, 05:25 PM
Any I've missed, people?

Head of the state police, local or state DA or prosecutor.

And here's the biggie, "or such other persons whose certificate may in a particular case be acceptable to the Director."

If the local CLEOs won't sign, you can write to the Director of ATF for a list of others he will accept. In the past, this list has included the local US Attorney, local US Marshals, local supervising FBI agents and local federal judges.

CleverNickname
August 15, 2003, 07:09 PM
Min, check your PM.

Standing Wolf
August 15, 2003, 10:08 PM
I could conceivably think about a .22 caliber fully automatic firearm, but even then, it seems an expensive proposition.

TheOtherOne
August 15, 2003, 10:41 PM
Oh yeah I want full auto! Although it kind of hurts to see all your ammo money flying down rang so quick, bump firing the AK-47 is the funnest thing I've ever done with it. It would be nice to have one that I could shoulder and shoot FA so that at least I could pretend like I was trying to hit a target.

Maybe the NRA can start fighting the '86 ban if we win this '94 thing? At current prices, I'll never own a full auto weapon.

Hkmp5sd
August 16, 2003, 01:08 AM
Maybe the NRA can start fighting the '86 ban IIRC, back in '86, the NRA supported the machinegun ban. The ban was part of the "1986 Firearm Owner's Protection Act" and NRA negotiations allowed the ban to go forward so they could get the Act signed into law. The sporting/hunting side of the NRA leadership managed to beat the anti- gun control side. The gun grabbers strategy of divide and conquer worked perfectly. They don't mind allowing bans on firearms they don't care about.

Feanaro
August 16, 2003, 01:35 AM
I'd a full-auto if I could afford it. Lot of fun to shoot, even if it's not all that practical. Ammo wouldn't really be a concern, if I had five or so thousand floating around then I could probably cough up some more.

MeekandMild
August 16, 2003, 01:48 AM
Well, its not all that its cracked up to be. :(

I got an Uzi some time ago, you know the drill, the greatest SMG ever designed et cetera. Well I have some proficiency, can hold 3 round bursts to a four inch circle at 25 yards, yada yada yada.

To tell the truth it is a pain. Got to tell the Feds when you move, got to keep it locked up, got to et cetera for what? So you can burn up a hundred bucks in 90 seconds? Lotsa fun!!! :rolleyes:

The .22 conversion option would be great...except for the fact there is a 10 round magazine law, so you can't get decent sized mags for .22.

So I take mine out to shoot every few months, mostly on semi auto, and wait, hoping for the 10 round magazine law to be changed so I can convert to .22.

Kenneth Lew
August 16, 2003, 04:52 AM
The .22 conversion option would be great...except for the fact there is a 10 round magazine law, so you can't get decent sized mags for .22.

There has been a .22lr conversion for the full auto uzi since Group Industries made the UZI receivers. :rolleyes:

Vector Arms (http://www.vectorarms.com)

Kenneth Lew
August 16, 2003, 04:55 AM
Mim email me @ k100355@swbell.net for more info in regards to full-auto.

Kenneth Lew

Byron Quick
August 16, 2003, 05:27 AM
IIRC, back in '86, the NRA supported the machinegun ban. The ban was part of the "1986 Firearm Owner's Protection Act" and NRA negotiations allowed the ban to go forward so they could get the Act signed into law. The sporting/hunting side of the NRA leadership managed to beat the anti- gun control side. The gun grabbers strategy of divide and conquer worked perfectly. They don't mind allowing bans on firearms they don't care about. HKmp5sd

I quit the NRA for years over this act. But that ain't the way it happened.

The ban was added by a New Jersey Senator at the very last moment. There were no negotiations prior to passage. President Reagan reportedly offered the NRA a veto of the bill after it was passed with the amendment. The NRA apparently decided that the good parts of the bill which affected millions of gun owners outweighed the bad that affected 125,000 registered machine gun owners of the time.

TheOtherOne
August 16, 2003, 08:39 AM
The NRA apparently decided that the good parts of the bill which affected millions of gun owners outweighed the bad that affected 125,000 registered machine gun owners of the time.That means there are probably less than 125,000 machine guns even available to legally transfer today? And, if they are anything like me with my guns, I'm sure most of the owners are not in the selling mood. Dang! No wonder an M-16 would cost me $14,000. I haven't even seen Mac-11's for $1,500 anymore either.

Byron Quick
August 16, 2003, 08:52 AM
Given the state of the ATF's registry, no one is quite sure just how many transferrable machine guns exist. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 280,000. Could be thousands more...could be thousands less.

There was a grace period before the law took effect. During that time, the factories were working overtime producing conversions, registered receivers, registered bolts, and registered auto sears and getting the paperwork done on them.

That's when I had my Uzi conversion done by SWD.

Hkmp5sd
August 16, 2003, 02:03 PM
The ban was added by a New Jersey Senator at the very last moment. There were no negotiations prior to passage. President Reagan reportedly offered the NRA a veto of the bill after it was passed with the amendment.

Good to know, thanks. Looks like the NRA did sell us out though. I had always blamed Reagan for signing the ban, but it seems he may not be as guilty as he has been portrayed.

Monkeyleg
August 16, 2003, 06:24 PM
I had a Thompson full-auto, but sold it because I wasn't shooting it. The cost, as has been mentioned, is too prohibitive. Now I have regrets, because there's no way I'll be able to afford one again.

If Reagan had possessed the same line-item veto power that Clinton did and Bush does, we might not be looking at $10,000 MP5's.

JeepDriver
August 16, 2003, 08:22 PM
I, like others, find the 3 round burst to be much more accurate.

That being said I love to rent the MP5 and burn off a few 30 round mags! :D And I would love to have a full auto AK. Bump firing is cool but squeezing the trigger and emptying a 30 round mag would be cooler

I think the 7.62 x 39 and 9mm are some of the only calibers I could afford to shoot a full auto with.

TechBrute
August 16, 2003, 08:55 PM
Full Auto = Ballistic Masterbation

Controlled Bursts = Deadly

3 Round Burst Mode = Accountants' Answer to Poor Training.

Hkmp5sd
August 16, 2003, 10:08 PM
Full Auto = Ballistic Masterbation
Not a blanket fact for all machineguns.

With my MP5SD, I can dump the entire magazine into a silhouette at 25 yards in one continuous burst. There is absolutely no muzzle climb. The small amount of recoil thrusts the gun straight back. It feels similar to drilling a hole with an electric drill motor.

guy sajer
August 16, 2003, 10:35 PM
I would rather have the option of selecting the number of shots I fire in a burst . 3 or 30 or whatever the situation calls for . I can easily fire a 30 rd magazine from my Thompson with it set on auto and 2 rd burst from my Colt . It's just a matter of getting to know your gun .
Ammo is actually kind of cheap . Based on todays selling price & dollar devaluation from the 80's , ammo is cheaper now .
I have to agree with the .22 conversion advice . It's a blast . I have a Ciener for my Colt with 4 30 rd mags .
The prices are definately prohibitive . I wouldn't own any if I hadn't bought them 10 yrs ago . They have proven to be a solid investment !

Mitch

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=248615
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=249679

LostOneToo
August 16, 2003, 10:43 PM
Have to admit that full-auto is great fun to shoot but as far as being really practical..increased rounds per minute=increased misses per minute. They do have their place occasionally in a tactical situation and are fun but I am not sure in the civilian world, where I have to buy the ammo, if the fun=the expendature of $$$$. If you can afford it, go for it and have fun.

guy sajer
August 16, 2003, 10:52 PM
I would own only 3 or 4 guns .

I think most all of our shooting is for fun . If I improve my skills at the same time then I guess that's a fringe benefit :D

Mitch

MeekandMild
August 16, 2003, 11:28 PM
Kenneth, perhaps I should have added the modifier "...for any reasonable price" IMHO paying $50 for a 28 round .22 mag is a little too much. Paying $5 would be about right. A .22 drum magazine would be a lot of fun to shoot, and I would gladly pay $50 for one after the ban is lifted.

Oh, more downside for FA. 1) You've got to fill out ANOTHER form and get prior approval to take it out of your home state so you can't just drop it into your suitcase when you go visit kinfolks up in the mountains. 2) Illegal to hunt with a MG. So forget putting a scope on that pretty Nigerian BM-59 and taking it out to the deer stand. :(

Graystar
August 17, 2003, 04:39 AM
I'd love a 3-shot burst system for my Glock.

Byron Quick
August 17, 2003, 08:39 AM
Paying $5 would be about right.

Well, I hit sticker shock on that 28 rd. magazine myself. On the other hand, I'm not aware of a 5 round .22 magazine for a rifle that can be purchased for 5 bucks. Ruger 10/22 10 rd magazines are what now? I bought a couple for about 10 bucks a piece a few years ago.


Point of interest. Anyone noticed the reduction in prices on Uzi 9mm magazines on the Vector website? I find this curious. I wonder if they think that the AWB will sunset?

guy sajer
August 17, 2003, 01:05 PM
Regarding magazine prices , I would say that prices are down because supply has surpassed demand . There are millions of Uzi mags out there and not many guns in the US to warrant a continuous demand . HK 91 and FAL mags are everywhere for less than $10 for the same reason . IMO

Mitch

Min
August 17, 2003, 02:33 PM
http://1919a4.com/gca/leona-mgchris-coltlmgtracer.mpg


100% tracer-filled beta mag at night full-auto.

Min
August 17, 2003, 02:39 PM
http://1919a4.com/gca/leona-mongo-stonertracer.mpg


100% tracer-filled Stoner 63A at night.

Min
August 17, 2003, 02:43 PM
http://1919a4.com/gca/taylor_mk2.avi


Suppressed Ruger MkII.

Min
August 17, 2003, 02:46 PM
http://1919a4.com/gca/ogc-toad-am180.mpg


275 rds of .22 lr in one burst on high rpm full-auto.

Min
August 17, 2003, 02:47 PM
http://1919a4.com/gca/ogc-sonja-m11-9aw.mpg


Girl with machine gun. Oh yeah!

Min
August 17, 2003, 02:48 PM
http://1919a4.com/gca/ogc-toad-m10-50rds.mpg


Suppressed MAC 9 with 50 rd mag. Note lack of recoil.

Min
August 17, 2003, 02:50 PM
http://1919a4.com/gca/kcr-hkat-fnp90.mpg


FN P90 full-auto

Min
August 17, 2003, 02:52 PM
http://1919a4.com/gca/kcr-nightshoot-first20sec.mpg

Minigun at night. Awesome!



(Hope you enjoyed the porno vids!)

Min
August 17, 2003, 02:55 PM
http://1919a4.com/gca/kcr-captain-monty.mpg


One more. Full-auto on steel knock-down targets.

Cosmoline
August 17, 2003, 03:24 PM
The subguns and even assault rifles I've seen in action have been cool, but not too practical. To really get the benefit of full auto, you need a mounted machine gun with a few thousand rounds.

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