Looking for a good first O/U shotgun.......Stoeger Condor Supreme Deluxe?


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JimUCD
August 15, 2003, 12:08 PM
Just getting into clay shooting. Went with a friend one day and now am addicted. I'd like to get an economical/reliable/solid sport gun. A friend suggested the Stoeger Condor SD. What are some opinions on this gun? It will be my first over/under, and I plan on doing a lot of shooting with it.

Thanks guys.

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bamf
August 19, 2003, 12:13 AM
If you don't have a shotgun, I'd get a 870. Can be had for a reasonable price, it was my first shotgun, picked up a used one for 160 dollar.

Now if you absolutely need to get O/U (I did) and couldn't afford even a used nice one like a Browning (I couldn't), I'd look at Lanber. I've had my model 87 for a few years and have put thousands of rounds through it, no problem...been 100% reliable. You can pick one up through, CDNN investments, and depending on your model choice, for around $400.

Someone I was shooting with had a Condor, and really liked it but he had to get some work done to it relating to broken firing pins after 3000 rds.

HTH

BTW, does the UCD part of your name mean UC Davis?

JimUCD
August 19, 2003, 02:59 AM
Yes. I am an Aero and Mech Engineering student at Davis.

Dave McCracken
August 19, 2003, 07:20 AM
Few good doubles are cheap, few cheap doubles are good. For a first shotgun, there's better choices.

Any of the Big Four(Mossy 500, Ithaca 37, Winchester 1300 and the legendary Remington 870) pumps makes a great first shotgun, and a solid basis for a battery. Moreover, they can be had for less than a week's pay and provide generations of service.

And, any of these has some tradein value, so one doesn't lose lots of money if it and he/she just doesn't click. Not true with off brands.

If pumps aren't your choice, autoloaders are around for a few hundred more. Best brands include Browning, Winchester, Remington,Benelli and Beretta.

I'd steer clear of off brands and clones made in 3rd World countries.

Good O/Us include Beretta, Browning, SKB, Winchester,etc. up to Kreighoff, Kolar, and other high priced target shotguns.These last a very long time, not often true with less O/Us.

Hit the range and ask folks about their shotguns. Many will let you handle them or even fire off a shot(of YOUR ammo). Make a choice only after long thought.

HTH....

45auto
August 19, 2003, 09:00 AM
As mentioned above, cheaper O/U's are a bad buy.

I'd buy a good autoloader. You can find good ones used that will work for a long time or take the plunge and buy a new one.

If you must have an O/U, plan on spending at least a $1,000 for a used Browning, Beretta, or perhaps a Ruger. Try some before you buy.

kudu
August 19, 2003, 10:57 AM
I saved and saved to buy my first O/U, I had been shooting a Rem 1100 20ga for 2 years before I finally got a Ruger red label in 12ga. Later had it tubed with all gauge tubes for competition and put probably 70,000 rounds through that gun. If you buy an O/U get a quality one made by a good company.
Still figure on spending at least $1000 on a good O/U. With a pump or an auto you could buy a lot of shells and rounds of clays with what's left over.

seeker_two
August 19, 2003, 12:46 PM
I don't have an O/U, but my Stoeger Coach Gun (SxS 12ga) has been a great buy. And other Stoeger owners I've talked to have never had a bad word to say.

If you're interested in an O/U, you could do a lot worse....

(P.S. Avoid the Norincos....)

JimUCD
August 19, 2003, 02:56 PM
Does anyone actually own a Stoeger Condor? Either the regular, supreme, or supreme deluxe. I'd like to know the opinions from actual Stoeger owners.

I'm not trying to dicredit any opinions from others that do not own a Stoeger, but it just seems that i've gotten the opinion from non-owners. I'd just like to hear what some guys, that use it on a regular basis, have to say.

rock jock
August 19, 2003, 03:15 PM
Very good advice above on starting with a good pump or an autoloader.

As far as good O/U's, don't overlook the fine line from SigArms.

Dave McCracken
August 19, 2003, 06:39 PM
Jim, I understand where you're coming from, but....

The good folks who've kicked in to help you on this have at least a couple centuries of aggregate shotgunning behind them. They do not own many Condors. There may be a connection.

Condors may be decent field guns, but few guns besides the best hold up under the pounding clay shooters get.

Some field guns only eat a box or two every year. I'm no heavy clay shooter, but I'm running 6-8K yearly through ONE 870. Others get lesser amounts.

Bruce, Buck, Editor of Shooting Sportsman and the Technoid over on Shotgun Report, has a basic bit of advice for new shotgunners.

He says, get a gas auto and get it fitted to you.Good brands like Remington, Winchester, Beretta and Browning all will work.

Then, shoot it for a year. Do not swap guns or tinker with it.

At the end of the year, you'll have a good idea of what works for you and where to go to get it, be it auto, O/U, SxS or pump.

HTH....

bbrown609
August 19, 2003, 06:43 PM
I don't own a Stoeger Condor, but a buddy of mine does. He has been really happy with his and competes and wins several competitions with his every year. He shoots the crap out of it and has had no problems. I was tempted to by myself one, but opted to buy skeet choke tubes for my 12 and 20 gauge semi-autos. If you are on a budget, but still have to have an O/U, get the Stoeger. Personally, I would buy a good semi-auto first. Then I would practice, practice, and practice with the lesser recoil of the semi-auto. All the while saving for a good O/U. Then when you can afford the O/U, you will have a nice hunting gun in the semi and a good competition gun in the O/U.

MarineTech
August 19, 2003, 09:02 PM
Picked up a Condor Supreme Delux about 10 days ago. The price was right and I figured I'd give it a try to see whether or not an O/U suits me. Figured that I'd use it for the occasional round of 5 stand and skeet, and see what it does on upland game during bird season this year. Been busy with work since, and haven't even had a chance to clean it up yet.

Overall, it seems decently made. It's tight as a frog's bottom right now, but I'll see how well it feels after a good cleaning and some break-in of the action. I don't really care for the red plastic sights on it, and I'll probably replace them with brass beads when I have a chance. (Comes from shooting an 870 for the last 17 years.)

bamf
August 19, 2003, 11:12 PM
Right on, I graduated from UC Davis about a year and a half ago, got my BS in Physiology.

So you got your membership at the YSA? I just left Davis about a week ago and I miss the ole YSA. Enjoy it, best deal in the area.

JimUCD
August 20, 2003, 12:42 AM
The YSA is great. You can't beat that deal.

I haven't used their clay stuff yet though...only the pistol and 100 yard range.

Grayrock
August 20, 2003, 01:29 AM
Don't knock the less expensive O/U's as a group. I have a Baikal IZH-27 in 12 gauge that I bought about 2 years ago. I have several thousand rounds through it and nary a problem. I know over a 1/2 dozen people who shoot the same brand and all are fond of it. I paid $350 for mine brand new. I know it is not a "B" gun and I don't expect it to look or last like one, but at $350, no one can tell me it only shoots a 1/4 as well as as a "B" gun! With what I saved on the gun I put into lessons, practice and ammo. Besides, it's kind of cool to outshoot the guys with the guns that cost more than my week's salary. I also primarily hunt with it and in cow, sheep & goat populated areas the O/U allows me to not hunt for my empties before hunting for my birds. Lastly, I don't have a hissy fit if I lay it against a fencepost with rusty "bobwahr" all over it, or lay it down in the mud at the edge of a stock tank. Sure, I aspire to a glossy, engraved, burlwood stocked, fancy schmancy imported marvel of firearm engineering, but just not right now. I can shoot AND save and shop now. So don't discount the less expensive choice until you've checked out the advantages they offer.

Horsesense
August 20, 2003, 11:18 PM
I read a review on this board a week or so back that said something to the effect that Stoeger was made by Banelli. The link on the Stoeger web page was to Benelli's web page. I haven't gotten round to it but I plan on taking a good look at Stoeger.

Preacherman
August 20, 2003, 11:34 PM
Horsesense (are you a stallion or a mare? :D ), Benelli/Beretta has the marketing rights for Stoeger shotguns in the USA, but they're actually made in Brazil.

Horsesense
August 21, 2003, 12:07 AM
I guess you could call me "the old gray stallion", I ain't what I use to be. :o

Benelli only has the marketing rights, huh…learn something new every day. I wonder if Bersa makes Stoeger ?

45auto
August 21, 2003, 11:23 AM
The operative words that I responded to with my common suggestions was "clay target shooting" and " doing a lot of shooting".

Dave McCracken summed it up best in his last post.

If the words "hunting" and "occasional" shooting were mentioned, my response may have been different.

Smoke
August 21, 2003, 12:11 PM
If you're dead set on an O/U look around for a lightly used Beretta/Browning/Ruger. They hold value well. SHoot one for a year or more as mentioned earlier. If the fit isn't right you will be surprised at how much you can get back out of it.

A used Stoeger is worth how much?

Selfdfenz
August 25, 2003, 12:15 AM
If all you plan to do with it is shoot clays I agree with the idea of spending the bucks to get a bit more pricey, smoother model.

If however you plan to do a bit of rough shooting (Re Grayrock) an IZH is your gun for that part of the sport. I can't say anything good or bad about the Condor but I can say for a good brush, swamp (and tank), hunting in the pouring rain, and the 105 degree sweaty dove field shotgun you can count on an IZH to get the job done and then some.

I've shot mine so much now I wouldn't hold it against my Baikal if something did break considering what it's been through.

In TX we do some some pretty rough shooting from time to time.

S-

ZSchiffman
July 26, 2008, 12:17 PM
Hey guys, I'm 17 and im looking for a cheap oven under to go trap shooting about once a month. My dad got a new pump a few years ago but does work well for trap. im trying to keep the price under 1k so if you guys could give me some suggestions, that would be great. And weather to buy a used nicer one or a new sub quality brand, and where to buy. I.e. like a bass pro shop or like a father son shop in town? (Also, this may sound dumb but whats the difference between sporting and trap guns?)

Dave McCracken
July 26, 2008, 12:50 PM
I'd go with a used Berreta, Browning, Winchester 101 or SKB.

Trap guns are set up to shoot rather high and oft are quite muzzle heavy. They work well for trap but not so well at other clay games.

Sporting guns do not shoot so high, from level to a little high and are a bit more nimble.

To use one shotgun for all things clay, I'd get a sporting gun.

In fact, I did.

sillpapa
July 26, 2008, 06:05 PM
I have owned a Stoeger Condor 12 ga for going on 3 yrs now this gun has been used for Sporting Clays to Turkey Hunting . Stoger Firearms are reasonably priced an as the saying goes you get what you pay for . Also don"t abuse the things you enjoy . i have enjoyed this firearm an it has given me 3yrs of enjoyable shooting fun with no problem.

ZSchiffman
July 26, 2008, 07:31 PM
thanks guys. and would you reccomend a 12 or a 20 for trap?
and also, if i can find a used browning for example and a new stoeger for the same price, which would you reccomend i go with?

Dave McCracken
July 26, 2008, 10:36 PM
12. More ammo choices,including some outstanding trap loads...

rrssn672
December 23, 2008, 08:47 PM
Hi All, Just wanted to say hi. All of your input on the condor was much appreciated. I just picked up a 20 gauge W/26" barrels and can not wait to give it a try. I have a 13 yo son who will be crazy about taking this thing into the feild. I purchased it for $259.99 and after the $50.00 rebate will have a total of $209.99 into it. Small price to pay to spend some great time with my son. I will let you know how she shoots.

Wheeler
December 23, 2008, 11:21 PM
It's a moot point now, as you purchased your Stoeger however I thought I would add some thoughts for some of the other new shooters to consider.

My boss has talked me into shooting sporting clays with him, coming from an IDPA/IPSC background, I had a low opinion of the sport and shooters but, I thought I would give it a try. I started off with a 1940's vintage Remington Model 11, in 12 Gauge, with a PolyChoke that my Dad had given me. I shot the first fun match with it, and shot a 43. I was pretty happy all things considered. I tried a Super Black Eagle the next match, did poorly with it, went back to the Model 11 for the last four stations, and had a good finish. I think I ended up with a 52 that time.

I ran across a used and cosmetically abused Remington 11-87 Special Purpose in a pawnshop, did some dickering and some horse trading, and basically picked up the gun for $200. Cleaned it up, refinished the wood, bought a couple of chokes, and off to the range I went. I shot a 23. I was questioning my decision to buy the 11-87 but, I didn't want to subject what I consider a family heirloom to the abuse of sporting clays. I decided to stick with the 11-87.

THis past weekend, I shot a 66 with it, and was pretty darn happy about it. Only thing is, now I can't blame the gun for causing me to score poorly. :evil:

Some of the advice I got from my boss was, up to a point, it's not the arrow, it's the Indian but, a good arrow goes a long way towards making the shot. The other bit of insight was, after a certain point, the quality is going to be the same, it's all fit and finish after that. Fit and finish go a long way towards making the experience that much more enjoyable.

Just some thoughts and observations that might help you choose a new shotgun.

Wheeler

notorious
December 23, 2008, 11:39 PM
I've always liked the Mossberg Silver Reserve O/U guns for field use. They can be had for $470 at Big5 all day long.

tlankford
November 17, 2010, 06:18 PM
I have a stoger condor. Dont listen to all these people telling you to get a better quality gun. there is nothing wrong with the stoger. if benelli is markeing them they arent crap. i have had mine and duck hunt and bird hunt and it has never let me down. take care of it and it will last.

stan rose
November 17, 2010, 06:42 PM
I have recommended to friends that their first gun be a reliable pump for the following reasons:
When you can or want to buy a better gun having a decent pump laying around is a good thing (as an extra)
Replacement parts and accessories are plentiful
The guns are versatile
That being said go out and look at o/u in your price range and see what you like best, then get out and shoot it. That is the most important thing, be happy with the gun you have, and you shoot it often. It's not like this is going to be your last purchase, trust me you will buy plenty more guns. Good luck in school, are staying on for an ME?

oneounceload
November 17, 2010, 08:28 PM
Clay shooting requires a reliable gun. Unless you are willing to go the proper route - which typically means a Browning or Beretta (new MSRP about 3000), then a good semi is the best choice, as they can be had for less than half - even new. Used semi's from Beretta rule the clay fields where semis are shot; otherwise look at used O/U from the "B" boys

ms6852
November 17, 2010, 10:35 PM
I will play devils advocate and recommend the Yildiz from Academy. The shotguns come with pretty furniture and the more expensive will come engraved and the most you will pay is approximately $589.00 at Academy. I bought one 6 years ago have put over 1000 rounds through it with out a glitch. Now at the beginning the lever that breaks the barrel open will be stiff but will eventually loosen up with time. I have no regrets and break just as many clays as the guys that have their browning, benelli's and berettas. With the extra several hundred dollars saved buy several hundred dollars worth of shells and practice. Here is the link:

http://www.yildizshotgun.com/maineng.html

oneounceload
November 18, 2010, 02:21 PM
6 years ago have put over 1000 rounds through it

And I have over 100,000 through my Browning over the last 15 years.that's the point I guess - the OP needs to determine how much he is going to shoot his gun. 1000 rounds for me, can be done in 1-3 trips to the sporting clays field

ms6852
November 18, 2010, 11:16 PM
And I have over 100,000 through my Browning over the last 15 years.that's the point I guess - the OP needs to determine how much he is going to shoot his gun. 1000 rounds for me, can be done in 1-3 trips to the sporting clays field
It's a Freudian slip or some form of dyslexia, the (1000 rounds) was actually supposed to read thousands of rounds. But I do agree with you, the OP needs to determine how much he will be shooting and reliability of the gun is paramount.

average_shooter
November 19, 2010, 12:17 PM
Anyone else catch that the original post was from 2003? Resurrected in 2008? Then again just a few days ago?

Probably a safe bet that the OP has things figured out at this point. lol

Ledgehammer
December 20, 2010, 03:34 PM
1000 rounds for me, can be done in 1-3 trips to the sporting clays field

Yea- I also noticed this guy apparently shoots the equivalent 40 rounds of skeet in a day with a O/U. okay...

oneounceload
December 20, 2010, 03:43 PM
1000 rounds for me, can be done in 1-3 trips to the sporting clays field
Yea- I also noticed this guy apparently shoots the equivalent 40 rounds of skeet in a day with a O/U. okay...

If you read what I said, I mentioned several trips to the sporting clays course. Where I shoot, they have 2 courses, to make the drive worth the gas, we spend the day there shooting both courses, , sometimes more than once....300 a day is easily doable with my gun and my light loads

I agree, though, shooting 40 rounds of skeet in one day would be tediously boring.... ;)

Ledgehammer
December 20, 2010, 04:38 PM
sometimes more than once....300 a day is easily doable with my gun and my light loads

I don't have a fancy mathematics degree so bear with me here, but to me that still don't equal 1000 shells in 3 trips. So giving you the benefit of the doubt let's say it's more in the 3-4 trip range than the "1-3"

to make the drive worth the gas, we spend the day there shooting both courses

You guys should car pool. Our course is pretty far from where we live and I understand about the gas, so we carpool and do 2 rounds in a day and maybe shoot some 5 stand at the end. Just walking that much carrying a 12 gauge weares on you. The course is almost a mile loop.

I agree, though, shooting 40 rounds of skeet in one day would be tediously boring....

Eh - my point is if you shot 1000 shells in one day that would be insane and pretty much impossible through a o/u. Considering it typically takes 2 hours just to complete a round of sporting clays and a maximum of 100 shells per round. That's all things going perfect -with no crowd.

oneounceload
December 20, 2010, 05:53 PM
Eh - my point is if you shot 1000 shells in one day that would be insane and pretty much impossible through a o/u. Considering it typically takes 2 hours just to complete a round of sporting clays and a maximum of 100 shells per round. That's all things going perfect -with no crowd.

If you shoot dove in Argentina, shooting 1000 rounds a day is the minimum and typically more like 1500.

When I shoot sporting, I go when it isn't crowded. I shoot more than 100 on each course, because when I get to a station that kicks my rear end, I'll shoot another box or two to figure out how to be consistent (my courses do not have an issue with you paying for extra targets. Shooting 300 or more rounds in one day is about my norm - I don't do this every day of the week like Kim Rhodes or other Olympic shooters, and shooting a 3/4 oz 12 gauge reload helps a LOT. Point is, high volume shooting is easily done shooting sporting when it isn't a Saturday or during a competition.

The OP needs to determine his needs in that regard. Shooting a poorly fit gun that can, and usually, break after a few hundred or thousand rounds is not going to leave a good experience in his mind. The gun, if you shoot even somewhat seriously, is the least cost in this whole thing, so buy a good one that will last, that fits, and that works well without issues.

In that vein, again - IMO, that means a minimum of a gas gun from Beretta - even used will last forever and work well.

In the O/U arena, that means a minimum of a Beretta/Browning/SKB variety, with Zoli, Blaser, Guerini above that............and when you start to get real serious, the Perazzi/Kreighoff/Kolar above that

The basic "B" guns, used, can be had for about $1500 - again, give or take depending on your locale. With a modest amount of care, they will last his lifetime and that of his kids. As you go up in price, you go up in longevity. There's a reason the Olympic folks mostly shoot Perazzi, the US sporting folks mostly shoot Kreighoff, the trap folks like Kolar, Ljutic, Seitz, etc.........those guns LAST, they are good for 500,000 and up.

If the OP's intent, however, is merely some pasture clays once a month, then that is a completely different story.

I would rather buy once, cry once, and shoot for the rest of my life, than constantly having something in the shop, or something I feel the need to upgrade from every 2 years - you would be better off buying the better gun in the beginning.

YMMV

Ledgehammer
December 20, 2010, 10:26 PM
because when I get to a station that kicks my rear end, I'll shoot another box or two to figure out how to be consistent (my courses do not have an issue with you paying for extra targets. Shooting 300 or more rounds in one day is about my norm -
I see - you're the guy that buys a $400 driver thinking it will make him drive the ball like John daly but ends up hitting 3-4 balls every tee box. This is getting silly so I'll just let it go. The thread was started in 03 and the guy already bought a condor. I would love to know how it's working out for him...

oneounceload
December 20, 2010, 10:51 PM
Nah, it's called practicing to correct something that is giving you fits,

but letting this go is a good idea

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