Venturino's 45 Long Colt Shotshell...I need help


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Vacek
April 24, 2008, 10:09 PM
I am attempting to load Venturino's shotshell which is 8.0 grains of 2400 followed by a gas check...then the shot...then a gas check well crimped.

For the life of me after resizing my brass and expanding I cannot get a 45 LC gas check to insert into the case. What am I doing wrong. I am using Lee carbide dies (4 piece set including the factory crimp).

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BigJakeJ1s
April 24, 2008, 11:53 PM
I'm just guessing, but aren't gas checks supposed to be crimped or squeezed or something to get them to stay on the bullet? Seems like unless/until that is done, they might not fit into the case very well.

You could try a little extra flair on the case mouth, and see if you can adjust the seating stem to push the GC into the case mouth. Otherwise, I have seen black powder compression dies which might work.

Andy

Snapping Twig
April 25, 2008, 03:05 AM
I use a wood dowel to tap the checks into place. I have a sharpie mark on them to indicate depth so as to not compress the powder and I use a rosin hammer to do the tapping - it's just more gentle.

I put the finishing check in with the legs of the cup UP and that makes a nice presentation after crimping.

dmftoy1
April 25, 2008, 05:05 AM
I'm curious what you find out . ..I wonder if possibly he's using a smaller gas check? (like a 44 magnum check). I'd think it'd be too loose, but ??

The only other thing I can think is that he's somehow sticking the gas check on the expander plug and seating it that way. The gas checks I use on cast bullets won't fit into the cases they're designed for unless I run them through the lube/sizer die which "crimps" them onto the base of the bullet.

I wonder what the size of an "uncrimped" .44 magnum check is?

Walkalong
April 25, 2008, 07:35 AM
I sharpen a case and cut out little plastic "circles" to use for a "keeper" which I crimp over. I cut cardboard ones for over the powder, before the shot and the plastic "keeper".

And that was back when gas checks were cheap.

GooseGestapo
April 26, 2008, 07:20 AM
I tried the gas-check technique. It works- sort of......

You have to expand the case neck a bit more than you normally would, and I used a 1/4" socket wrench extension and a small hammer to tap the gaschecks into place. I set the gascheck with the "large end" of the extension.

I much prefer to simply cut out wads from corregated cardboard. I use an over the powder wad cut from cardboard such as an empty primer slide holder, and then a corregated cardboard wad. Then the shot, followed by another card-wad. And then I crimp the case mouth. To set the cardboard wads, I use a piece of 3/8" wood dowel.

Secondly, I prefer 5.0gr of Bullseye.......

The cardboard wads alleviate the need to use the expensive gas checks and pattern just as well if not better. Actually, the lower the velocity the better these loads pattern, down to about 900fps.

rcmodel
April 26, 2008, 11:41 AM
Venturino's shotshell which is 8.0 grains of 2400Don't know where you got your load data, but I believe you may have got your powders mixed up there.

Venturino has written two articles that I know of on loading handgun shotshells.

The first was for Shooting Times some years ago, and the other was in the April 2005 Handloader magazine.

In both, he said he used 9.0 grains Unique in the .45 Colt gas-checked shot load. (or 8.0 grains Unique in .44 Special)

I seriously doubt 8.0 grains 2400 would even burn in a shot load.

rcmodel

Vacek
April 26, 2008, 08:44 PM
RCModel,

You are right. I meant Unique. My mistake.

suemarkp
April 27, 2008, 01:55 AM
Gas checks out of the box are a little larger than bullet diameter. A 44 gas check is about .433 and a 45 gas check is about .456 in diameter. I would think jamming a .456 gas check down the brass is going to make it a little fat unless you can squish it back down with a Lee Factory Crimp Die.

I'd suggest a flexible over the power wad (buy the ones made for muzzle loaders or cut the wings off a 410 shotshell wad). A 44 gas check may be nice on top if you can crimp the mouth closed enough. I have the die set which turns a 308 case into a 45 ACP shotshell. It has a nice rounding profile to round the mouth quite a bit. Alternatively, you could use some sort of tool to expand the 44 gas check to .445 or so.

45crittergitter
April 30, 2008, 09:17 PM
I had one brand (Hornady, I think) whose edge/lip/rim was flared too much for that purpose. I am now using some Lyman brand that have little flare and work pretty well. Just a thought.

Vacek
May 9, 2008, 07:27 PM
I am still trying to figure this out Duke V. must have used .44 gas checks. I cannot for the life of me see how one could insert a .45 into a case. Does anyone have the original article that they could quote the details????

GP100man
May 9, 2008, 08:01 PM
i use cardboard cut from cereal boxes for wadcards ,been shootin homemade shotshells for quite a while!!

i take a file cut notches in a case then sharpen it with a campher tool twist it with my lee case trim base in a cordless drill, dont forget to drill out the flash hole so you can push out the cards, LOL don`t ask how i know!!
fill the case cap it with a card then crimp a little ,use waterproof carpenters glue to seal the top .

got some in 357 cases dryin rite now!!!!


GP100man:D:D

dmftoy1
May 10, 2008, 07:03 AM
I am still trying to figure this out Duke V. must have used .44 gas checks. I cannot for the life of me see how one could insert a .45 into a case. Does anyone have the original article that they could quote the details????

If a .44 gas check is .433 then I'd say you've got your answer. I doubt if the shot bb's are going to fit in the gap between the check and the walls of the case.

Just my .02

Regards,
Dave

rcmodel
May 10, 2008, 12:24 PM
Does anyone have the original article that they could quote the details????Page 50, April 2005 Handloader:
Condensed, it says:
*Size and bell the case with standard .45 LC dies.
*Add powder.
*A .44 Spl./.44 Mag case mouth belling die (with a flat tapered end) is used to press a .45 caliber gas-check (mouth up) down "near" the powder.
*This step requires a little finesse because if the powder is compressed, then pressures can rise, but if the gas check isn't seated near the powder, then some case capacity is lost.
*Scoop full of shot to just below the case mouth.
*Another gas-check is placed on top (cup down) and pressed ever so slightly with the .45 LC case mouth belling die so it is level.
*Lastly, crimp in place with the .45 crimping die.

IMO: I think the .44 belling die with the flat tapered end is the trick you are looking for.
It would allow the GC to close up as it entered the case so it would fit. The the top GC would close up when the case mouth bell is crimped

Note: He mentions the Lyman, Redding & RCBS Cowboy .44 belling dies as being the correct shape to seat the GC's.

rcmodel

Vacek
May 10, 2008, 04:38 PM
RC...Thank you. That must be the trick. Many Thanks.

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