Kahr PM9 or Kel-Tec P3AT


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texcalibur
August 15, 2003, 01:01 PM
Of these two models, what are your opinions of the best for pocket carry. I realize some of the discussion would involve caliber discussion of 9mm v. .380.

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WonderNine
August 15, 2003, 01:41 PM
Wouldn't trust a Kel-Tec....

Then again, I wouldn't trust any plastic framed gun.

I'll take an MK9 loaded with Winchester 124gr NATO or 127gr +P+ Rangers.

The MK9 is lighter than my current pocket gun....

concerned citizen
August 15, 2003, 02:23 PM
Man this is a tough call....I have both a PM9 (accually 2 PM9's ) and a P3AT.

The Kahr PM9 is the ultimit pocketgun loadded with 7 rounds of corbon 100g powRball UNTILL you put a P3AT in your pocket. :what:

I don't care much for the little 32acp's in any flavor for the sole reason the round give's me ZERO comfort. I will admit I would not want to be shot with one but I don't like it as a defensive round.

That said..I like the 380acp in the P3AT package. I use winchester 90g sxt's, acurate, nice punch and make a bigger hole than any 22,25 or 32 in a similar pized package. Hopefully by the end of 2003 corbon will have a 380 powRball.

To answer your question my carry PM9 has Novak nitesites and I was carrying a 8rd T-9 magazine for spare.
This was a perfect pocket setup for me...as good as it gets I thought... But since I got the P3AT in the first part of june the PM9 has been left in my safe for bedtime duty and the P3AT has not left my pocket.

The Damm thing is just so small,so thin, so light, it works and it has 380acp punch...... :scrutiny:

Thats what I tell myself anyway...The PM9 is a superior defensive piece IMOP because of round it fires, and the sighting system but for the role of a pocket piece they both are comforting BUT the P3AT is more comfortable hands down...

WonderNine
August 15, 2003, 02:29 PM
How accurate are you with the P3AT compared to the PM9?

How's the trigger pull on the P3AT?

texcalibur
August 15, 2003, 02:54 PM
Concerned Citizen, what is the T-9 8 round magazine? It is not flush is it because even the 7 rounder has that butt ugly butt plate!

concerned citizen
August 15, 2003, 02:55 PM
I have not shot the P3AT further than 20ft, I generally practice at about 15ft and at this distance my P3AT shots equal with my PM, when shooting rapid fire my groups are generally 3-4''.

Shooting slow and delibrit I can tighten them up to around 2 or 3'' and closer to 1-2'' with the PM9.

Last time at the range I did more plinkling than anything with the P3AT and was poping empty shotgun shell's off a post from 12-15ft fairly regulary..:D

The elite trigger is superior to the keltecs also, but the keltec is a much smaller gun and the triggers good IMOP, its a shorter pull than the kahr but not as smooth. Trigger weight between the two is about the same around 7lbs.

22/22mag
August 15, 2003, 03:38 PM
I have had problems with 3 KTs out of the box,but not one with the Kahr pm9 out of the box.This might only be my bad luck with KTs .The Kahr I would depend upon though loaded a pound in weight verses the 8-9oz of the KT 3.80.

concerned citizen
August 15, 2003, 03:41 PM
texcalibur...The spare mags I'm using are from the T-series kahrs, there kahrs largest gun so far.

The mags have a 8 shot capacity, They do stick out about 3'' from the bottom of the butt, I would not carry the PM with one inserted, they do not have the gap filler finger rest like the 7 shot mk/pm mags I only use them for range/home and carry spare.

Lone_Gunman
August 15, 2003, 04:35 PM
I just acquired a P 3AT.

Love it.

No bigger than P32. It easily fits the same pocket holster.

200 rounds fired so far, most at about 25 feet, groups are around 2 or 3 inches, but can be less if I "stage" the trigger.

No malfunctions at all.

I was shooting about half hardball, and about half Winchester Silvertips.

tbeb
August 15, 2003, 06:39 PM
I pocket carry a snub .38 and a .380. (.380 is just a tad smaller than a Kel Tec P-11.) If a Kahr PM9 wouldn't bulge pocket any more than those two, then I would choose it. I feel 9mm is much better for self defense than a .380.

gbelleh
August 16, 2003, 10:29 AM
If concealability is your #1 concern, the P-3AT is much thinner, and lighter, and will totally disappear in your pocket. The Kahr PM9 will easily fit in most pockets too. If caliber is more important to you than weight/size, the PM9 is the way to go. The Kahr seems more substantial and ruggedly built to me. My PM9 has been very accurate and reliable. I have nothing against Kel-Tecs, and I know many work fine, but every Kel-Tec I've owned has given me problems, and I wouldn't trust mine for carry.

See if you can find a PM9 to try out in your pocket. If it won't work, the P-3AT will.

Bren
August 16, 2003, 12:40 PM
Go with 9mm, the 380 would be a fine last ditch pistol.

Newton
August 17, 2003, 08:02 PM
"I didn't think he had a gun so I came at him with my knife, he just had his hands in his jeans pockets see, and that little black gun came from nowhere like lightning and he shot me".

I'm guessing these will be the last words of a lot of muggers in shall issue states, it will be their first and last meeting with the P-3AT.

A lot of people don't carry because effective concealment and comfortable all day carry are mutually exclusive, no matter what die hards say.

The P-3AT IMO is a real ground breaker, because for the first time, a truly easy to carry pistol is available in an effective caliber.

We should be grateful for this pistol if only because more people will be encouraged to carry because of its existence.

I know they aren't .454 Casulls but you can do a lot worse than 7 rounds of .380ACP Hydrashoks.

FunYet
August 18, 2003, 10:42 AM
PM9...I've been happy with mine.

usnavymasterchief
August 18, 2003, 11:10 AM
Definitely the Kahr (Tho I prefer all stainless myself) There's no comparison between the two.
KT's are good inexpensive little guns, I own two P32's and P11, I shoot them regularly and enjoy them as hobby guns but Kahrs they aint !
I was a died in the wool KT believer until I bought a Kahr K40 which is now my daily carry piece. No comparison. Sorry KTOGers

Lone_Gunman
August 18, 2003, 11:17 AM
You would have to be naked (and skinny) not to be able to conceal a P3AT.

Kahr may be nice and pretty easy to conceal, but it is still much harder to conceal than the P3AT.

texcalibur
August 18, 2003, 02:35 PM
Thanks for the informative replies! I was able to shoot a Kahr PM9 and handle (but not shoot) a Kel-Tec P3T this weekend. My impressions were that the Kahr is well made, durable, reliable and accurate at defensive distances (21 feet). But, it was a little big for me for a pocket gun. It is much better than a Glock 26, but is still (at about 16 oz. loaded) heavy and a little big for my pockets on a daily (although fine for occasional pocket use) basis.

Bren
August 18, 2003, 03:10 PM
Quote,

"I didn't think he had a gun so I came at him with my knife, he just had his hands in his jeans pockets see, and that little black gun came from nowhere like lightning and he shot me".

I'm guessing these will be the last words of a lot of muggers in shall issue states, it will be their first and last meeting with the P-3AT.

A lot of people don't carry because effective concealment and comfortable all day carry are mutually exclusive, no matter what die hards say.

The P-3AT IMO is a real ground breaker, because for the first time, a truly easy to carry pistol is available in an effective caliber.

We should be grateful for this pistol if only because more people will be encouraged to carry because of its existence.

I know they aren't .454 Casulls but you can do a lot worse than 7 rounds of .380ACP Hydrashoks."


The NAA 380 was the first of it's kind.

No one can count on a 380 or any handgun for that matter, stopping an attakcer and it's best to carry the best stopper you can. You'd be surprized at how quick and dangerous an attacker with a knife can be, even when shot multiple times.

To say you can't carry anything larger is just being lazy IMO. Bren

10-Ring
August 18, 2003, 03:16 PM
I haven't even seen a Kel Tec in a few years! That said, I'd go w/ what I can get...the Kahr ;)

Lone_Gunman
August 18, 2003, 03:37 PM
Bren, are you trying to say that in all circumstances, you can carry a larger gun concealed?

tiberius
August 18, 2003, 03:51 PM
The NAA 380 was the first of it's kind

At twice the weight, this blowback gun is not in the same size class as the P-3AT.

tiberius
August 18, 2003, 03:55 PM
D'oh

coldshot03/04
August 18, 2003, 04:00 PM
KT P3-AT.
NAA Guardian.

I cant stand a Kahr handgun.

tiberius
August 18, 2003, 05:07 PM
I thought Kahr made the guardians.

coldshot03/04
August 18, 2003, 09:56 PM
Do they? Scratch the NAA.:barf:

mini14jac
August 19, 2003, 11:55 AM
Man, I can't believe I'm the first to say it:
Get Both!

I love my PM9, and since I started using the Uncle Mike's Belt Pak when wearing light shorts, I can carry it most of the time.
In slacks or jeans, pocket carry works fine.
If the pants and the belt fit you well, you won't notice the weight.
The bulge doesn't seem any worse than carrying a P32.
Remember, as a rule, a man never looks at another man below the waist.
And, if a woman looks, she's probably not checking out your pockets. :p
I really believe that you should carry the biggest gun possible.

I also love my P32. When absolute concealment is required, it is the way to go.
It is an easy gun to carry 24/7.
When P3ATs become readily available, I'll probably get one of those.
(See last sentence in paragraph above.)


I thought Kahr made the guardians.

Yes, Kahr makes the barrel/frame assy. for NAA, (.32 and .380) last time I looked.

Futo Inu
August 19, 2003, 03:16 PM
Ditto what Flyer said.

texcalibur
August 19, 2003, 04:42 PM
Mini14jac, good advice to buy both. As mentioned, I just got the opportunity to shoot the Kahr PM9 and was impressed with its quality. It just did not seem that concealable in my pocket. Like you said, not much more than a KT P32, but enough that I would be concerned. Maybe I'm paranoid or afraid of too many women looking below my belt.

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