Antis & Avoiding Setting Yourself Up


Kind of Blued
April 25, 2008, 12:34 PM
Seeing as how scary "assault rifles" (semi-automatic civilian-legal intermediate-powered modern military carbine variants :neener:) are used in fewer crimes than almost any other firearm short of muzzleloaders, I am curious as to how you all approach the topic of supporting their availability to the general public when talking to an anti. I've basically answered my own question, but humor me.

These things are given: People don't understand that they aren't fully-automatic. People don't understand that they don't fire a round which has been christened by satan to pierce anything and everything, in fact quite the opposite. People don't understand that they are less accurate than the common deer rifle. People don't understand that you can't just "buy one online". People don't understand that a pistol grips makes it harder to "fire from the hip" or that this doesn't help in "mowing people down", a skill which only those in action movies have perfected.

So, given that the majority of crimes are commited with inexpensive, small, concealable handguns like you carry every day, how do you go about enlightening the uninformed without "setting yourself up" so to say, or making the "armor-piercing high-powered rifle", or making your small concealable pistol seem like a gun-shaped clandestine chunk of personified death?

I basically know how I would deal with it, but as always, I'm sure some of you smart folks will have something enlightening to share.

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Phil DeGraves
April 25, 2008, 12:36 PM
I don't talk to antis...
If they are in fact anti and not just uninformed, then their minds are made up and nothing I say is going to change it, just as they won't change mine. Therefore, talking to them is a waste of time.

Kind of Blued
April 25, 2008, 12:40 PM
I don't talk to antis...

Well played. How do introductions go? I think they'd be rather amusing. :)

April 25, 2008, 12:43 PM
There is no setting myself up. I am on the side of logic and have the evidence to back it up. I won't be painted into any corner by any "anti". I come well armed to ANY fight. Not just a physical one.

That said, Phil is probably right. The discussion won't go anywhere, and will likely result in one of us stomping off in a tiff. But it won't be me. I'll win. ;)


April 25, 2008, 12:50 PM
Interestingly I have only had to explain the right to own military style semi automatic rifles to pro gun people. You would be wasting your breath to antigun people since they don't want anyone to own any guns regarless of 2A. You might just tell them because 2A confirms my right to do so.

My opinion is that it is not my place to judge what a law abiding citizen needs or wants for self defense, hunting or target shooting, collecting, protecting their family, etc.

Sniper X
April 25, 2008, 12:57 PM
I pretty much stopped arueing with antis as they think they not only know everything in the world, but that I get my information from the NRA who they think is as far as they are concerned as corrupt and full of non truths as the current administration. So, I now just call them on their bullsh*& and go away because they really make me get frustrated with their crap they spew.

April 25, 2008, 01:06 PM
My opinion is that it is not my place to judge what a law abiding citizen needs or wants for self defense, hunting or target shooting, collecting, protecting their family, etc.

...or talk about with his friends or do in his bedroom with his significant other or eat or drive or wear... and so on.



April 25, 2008, 01:17 PM
I like to tell them the simple facts on why guns are good and why gun control doesnt work, then remind them how they don't NEED free speech and that they should just shut the hell up and keep their sentiments to themselves. However, 90% of the people I have met either are gun owners, pro-gun, or are neutral on the subject.

April 25, 2008, 01:18 PM
I try to only hang out with intelligent, rational people. Some of these people don't understand the laws or the terminology, and guns aren't really something they care about or base their votes on. These people think guns are OK in general, but aren't so sure about military weapons and other scary things they hear about on the news.

Usually when guns come up they start speaking of assault rifles and cop killer bullets and the gun show loophole. I just ask them to define the terms they are using. This usually leads to a Carolyn McCarthyesque "I believe it is the shoulder thing that goes up" type of response. They have heard the words from the media, and have no idea what any of them actually mean, the concepts behind them, where the myths came from, etc.

I explain that they cannot have an intelligent viewpoint on the topic while using words that they don't know the meaning of. A lot of these people are doctors and lawyers, so they are very quick to understand the importance of using correct terminology. Plus, most of them are smart enough to know that I just politely said that they sounded stupid, and these people don't want to sound stupid. Most are eager to learn, so that they don't sound stupid in the future.

From here, it is pretty easy to go about debunking most of what they think they know.

As for irrational, stupid people, I try not to talk to them for any reason, and I certainly don't discuss guns with them.

April 25, 2008, 01:30 PM
"It is too bad you feel that way. We can continue this discussion when you bring facts to the table. Until then, I'd rather not listen to any more irrational perpetuations of ignorance."

This often results in name calling by the other person.

Cmdr. Gravez0r
April 25, 2008, 02:08 PM
I am discovering something more and more...

almost every wrong idea that people has about guns comes from things they see in movies which the media then comments on. In other words, everthing the typical sheep knows (I use the term descriptively, not demeaningly) about guns is TOTAL FICTION.

Kind of Blued
April 25, 2008, 02:51 PM
Good responses guys. Thanks for approaching this with an idea that there still may be something to learn on a topic which seems so utterly futile. :)

April 25, 2008, 03:29 PM
I've done this so many times, I can't begin to tally them.

The most recent was with my boss, who thought "assault weapons" were machineguns.

I've got the facts down cold. Nobody can argue the facts with me. Their only out is emotional blather.

April 25, 2008, 04:03 PM
Why argue with AUNTIES? :uhoh:

The proposition that "the people" should be empowered to defend themselves, seems to be an alien proposition to gun control advocates; but they are living in a beautiful world, where violence is not an issue and a totalitarian state is only a hypothetical proposition.

If the idea that a state power has ever denied its citizens CIVIL RIGHTS under LAW is the question, that's just silly. No government in history has ever deprived its citizens of rights under law, now have they?:uhoh::uhoh:

No identifiable gummint in history has ever persecuted its civilian population.

SO THERE!!! That settles that!:neener::neener::neener::neener::neener::neener:

April 25, 2008, 04:09 PM
I've got my government-approved Civilian Marksmanship competition rifles...

April 25, 2008, 04:11 PM
Oh yeah - when I talk about Knob Creek, I -always- mention that it's at Ft. Knox. Because invariably the folks say something like "Aren't machineguns against the law?"

April 25, 2008, 05:38 PM
I know many people who fear guns. In my experience it because they have had no exposure to them. Surprisingly all the people I have offered to take to a shooting range always leave with a big smile. Two have gone the distance and become shooters themselves.

I work with many people from Europe and I have noticed that my coworkers from western Europe (UK, Ireland, Germany) are very anti-gun and those from Eastern Europe and Scandinavia (Russia, Albania, Sweden) are firearm enthusiasts.

April 25, 2008, 05:52 PM
I always set myself up for a confrontation with an anti. Unless I make them question their beliefs, how can they change?

April 25, 2008, 08:20 PM
I usually will both cite numbers from the most recent fbi ucr which usually shows like 3-4% of all firearms homicides involve any rifle, let alone scary black ones and ask why they're so focused on such a small number of crimes instead of getting to the real problems that lead to homicide. I also point out the characteristics of being a safer and more effective tool for self defense is what has led to scary black rifles like the ar15 finding a place in police patrol cars across the US. Sometimes I'll point out that the black rifle they believe is scary is less powerful and has a shorter range than granda's friendly wood stocked hunting rifle.

April 26, 2008, 06:04 AM
My conversation with antis is generally this. " I've had a CCW for 48 years and I've killed less people with a gun then Ted Kennedy has with a car. Go bother him."

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