assumed lake city brass had crimped primers


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kennedy
April 25, 2008, 08:44 PM
I have a bunch of .223 lake city brass and assumed they would have crimped primer pockets, but they don`t, bought a pocket swaging die and its not needed as the primers seat just fine without using it.

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rcmodel
April 25, 2008, 08:51 PM
If it don't, someone already removed it.

Some of the surplus brass folks clean & swage primer pockets on grade 1 brass.

Where did you get it?

rcmodel

sniper5
April 25, 2008, 09:00 PM
Does the headstamp say Match? Lake City Match ammo is not crimped. I reload LCM 7.62 casings for my Ishy. Got the once fireds just so I wouldn't have to screw around with the crimps.

kennedy
April 25, 2008, 09:12 PM
I am the orginal owner of the brass, bought a case at a gun show. box says federal XM193 and the head stamp is LC 06 My swage dies does not even tought the edges of the pocket. Could depriming be removing the crimp?

Grandpa Shooter
April 25, 2008, 09:15 PM
No, depriming will not remove the crimp. Any 223 I have seen have a crimp ring which is clearly seen with or without the primer in place.

sublimaze41
April 25, 2008, 10:08 PM
A few years ago (before the war) I bought some pre-primed Lake City brass in .223. I bought at Midway and none of it had crimped primers.

ReloaderFred
April 25, 2008, 11:54 PM
ATK runs the Lake City Arsenal under contract. I'm sure since they own Federal, that some of the brass for Lake City comes from the Federal plant. If it was over run, or not needed at Lake City, then they would go ahead and load it at the Federal plant to military specs, but probably without the crimp. I've seen LC 5.56 brass that wasn't crimped, and it usually comes in Federal boxes.

Hope this helps.

Fred

paperpuncher49
April 26, 2008, 06:58 AM
Quote: "If it don't, someone already removed it."

Some respondents are missing a major point here. Primer pockets are crimped after the primer is seated. If it is new brass which has never been loaded, there ain't gonna be a crimp, whether it was produced at the LC arsenal or by Federal. And new LC 06 brass without the "match" headstamp is currently available to anyone who wants to fork out the cash. I currently have 500 "new" LC 5.56 (.223) cases and Kennedy is correct, assuming they are new cases, do not have a crimp that would need to be removed.

Bullet
April 26, 2008, 10:37 AM
paperpuncher49

You are correct for new brass but the OP stated -

Could depriming be removing the crimp?

So I assume this had primers in it (like loaded ammo). Iím not sure how the OP got LC brass that had been loaded without the primers crimped unless it was some of the PD ammo that is available. Possibly this is why it was PD ammo.

rcmodel
April 26, 2008, 11:28 AM
Federal XM193 is not military.
If it was military it would be M193, not XM193.

It is a civilian version of M193 that did not go through GI acceptance tests so Federal can sell it commercially.

If it had ever been accepted into government acceptance testing, it couldn't be sold as surplus.

Slick Willy signed a Presidential Order that prohibits the sale of GI surplus ammo, or components while he was president.

That's why the CMP can no longer sell U.S. GI surplus ammo, cases, primers, bullets, powder, etc. like they used to.

By law, all GI surplus ammo or components must be destroyed by burning or shredding to render it useless, and the CMP sells Greek ammo to us now.

rcmodel

P-32
April 26, 2008, 01:09 PM
That's why the CMP can no longer sell U.S. GI surplus ammo, cases, primers, bullets, powder, etc. like they used to.

I might argue this statement as I have some L/C '06 bought from the CMP. The reason they don't sell USGI ammo, bullets or powder is because they are out.

paperpuncher49
April 26, 2008, 08:09 PM
Bullet

You stated "So I assume this had primers in it...."

I never assume anything. We all know what they say about assuming!

The OP did not indicate whether it was new brass or previously fired brass. My response was a reaction to all the respondents who were stating if it is Lake City brass, it had to be crimped. I was merely stating that virgin brass cannot possibly be crimped, and not all Lake City brass is loaded military purposes.

Slinger
April 26, 2008, 08:22 PM
The X in XM193 designates civillian ammo. I bought a couple of boxes at the INDY show. It came in Federal boxes. Stuff shoots GREAT out of my M4-gery. It also has the LC headstamp.

kennedy
April 26, 2008, 08:54 PM
To clarify, the XM193 .223 I bought was loaded, I shot it and am going to reload it, so I thought I would need a primer pocket swage, but looks like I don`t. thanks to all who shed some light on this as I thought the swage was machined the wrong size and I was going to have to get in a pissing match with the manufactor. I picked up two batches of LC brass left on the gun range and both don`t have crimp pockets either.

Ed_E
April 27, 2008, 12:17 AM
Today at the range the person next to me was shooting 223 also. He didn't want the brass so he helped me pick it up, about 150 cases. Headstamps are LC with a two digit date, mostly 97. Also includes the NATO circled cross. I thought he was shooting new ammo out of a Federal box.

I did clean it tonight and sized/decapped a few to see how they sized. Had no problems decapping so these are without crimped primers. I am beginning to be a little suspicious these might be reloads because he said he has had the ammo for a while and took it in trade at a gun shop a few years ago.

Bullet
April 27, 2008, 01:40 AM
paperpuncher49

I currently have 500 "new" LC 5.56 (.223) cases and Kennedy is correct, assuming they are new cases, do not have a crimp that would need to be removed.

I never assume anything. We all know what they say about assuming!

You never assume anything. You might want to look again. This time you assumed wrong.

krs
April 27, 2008, 12:01 PM
LOL.Can I assume that that was well done?

ants
April 27, 2008, 12:10 PM
Over the last 10 years I have collected and loaded quite a bit of Lake City brass from the the '90s and early 2000's that was never crimped. It had no crimp ring, and was never reamed. I'm not surprised that Kennedy and others encountered the same.

Kennedy, keep that swager. You'll use it sooner or later.

flynlr
April 28, 2008, 05:49 AM
get this I bought 2 cases of XM193 early in 2007 1 had crimped primers the other did not. lot121 did

strat81
April 28, 2008, 11:31 AM
My understanding is that XM193 is stuff that, for one reason or another, did not meet M193 specifications. It seems reasonable that the reason certain batches may fail is no primer crimp.

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