Shooting to the right of point of aim


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IrvJr
April 26, 2008, 11:39 AM
Hi All,

I went to my local range yesterday and brought my rimfire rifle and revolver. First I shot my CZ 452FS (22LR bolt action with iron sights and a Mannlicher style stock). I shot at 50 yards and 100 yards. I shot cheapie Remington Ammo (from Wal Mart) and CCI minimags. at 50 and 100 yards I got some nice groups with the CCI minimag ammo. Using a padded rest at 100 yards I was able to keep most of my shots into a softball sized group. However, all of my shots were a few inches (Maybe two or three at 100 yards) inches to the right.

I then shot my Bearcat at 11 yards. Once again, if I used the CCI minimag ammo, I got some OK groups, but with both brands of ammo, my shots hit to the right (about 2 inches at 11 yards) of point of aim.

I'm wondering if there is something that I'm doing wrong to put all of my shots to the right. My CZ rifle came with a test target at 50 meters and the gun grouped nicely, all centered about the target. There was some wind blowing yesterday, but it seemed more gusty than steady.

I have several fix sighted hand guns (1911, J-frames, Sig 229, Kahr K9) and I seem to shoot point of aim with these guns. However, with my two Ruger Bearcast and with the CZ I tend to shoot to the right with these guns. Also, I normally shoot my other handguns at "combat sized" targets so I don't really notice if I'm shooting to the right. I do believe that with these other fixed sight handguns I tend to shoot straight windage wise.

I shoot with my right hand and based on some simple "eye tests" that I've tried, I think I am right eye dominant. However, I'm wondering if I am doing something wrong that might cause me to shoot consistently to the right.

On the CZ, I can adjust the windage of the rear sight to compensate, but the Bearcat has fixed sights.

Any suggestions on what to try or what I might be doing wrong (if anything)?

Thanks in advance.

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Educated Hillbilly
April 26, 2008, 12:12 PM
First guess from what you described, is you are using too much trigger finger. Just use the pad of your finger to squeeze the trigger. Just a first guess though.

csmkersh
April 26, 2008, 12:28 PM
Since he's shooting to point of aim with his other firearms, I doubt it's a trigger squeeze problem.

The CZ 452 sight can be adjusted, although I'd recommend a Mueller 4.5-14x44 AO scope.

The Bearcat can be "adjusted" by careful filing on the left side of the rear sight slot. You need to get a specialty file that has no teeth on the narrow side of the blade so as to not accidentally deepening the sight.

Also try Wolf MT or Eley ammo for better groups, although I get decent 50 yard groups with Winchester DynaPoints and Federal American Eagles. Even the cheap Federal Champion 510s & 710s aren't shabby.

IrvJr
April 26, 2008, 12:34 PM
Thanks Educated Hillbilly. I will pay more attention to my trigger finger placement the next time I go to the range. I think you might be right. I have a hard time placing the tip of my finger on the trigger (particularly with the bearcat) because of the size of the grip (too thin).

IrvJr
April 26, 2008, 12:36 PM
csmkersh - I've read something about turning the barrel on a fixed sight handgun. Is this something the home gunsmith can do or should I stick with filing the rear site channel?

Werewolf
April 26, 2008, 12:50 PM
Trigger finger placement and pull - there's a chart out there that shows what your shooting problem is based on where your groups are. I've seen it posted here on THR - maybe someone can supply a link.

Add to that that you said something about the grips and thickness on the bearcats and that you shoot your other handguns OK and there's further evidence that it's your trigger technique at fault.

Don't go filin' on anything 'till you verify you've got your trigger technique right.

csmkersh
April 26, 2008, 01:04 PM
Irv, turning the barrel is an old fix, but can't be done at the range. But it's a less permanent fix than filing the rear slot.

As to trigger pull, IF he's right handed and if his groups are at about 2 o'clock, he my be "heeling" the handgun but that's hard to do with a long gun, especially if he's sand bagging the stick. If he were jerking the trigger, his groups should be at about 7 o'clock.

Also, you could ask the folks at Rimfire Central (http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/index.php) for help. Go to the CZ forum for the 452 and the Ruger-Other for the Bearcat.

IrvJr
April 26, 2008, 01:32 PM
Thanks all for the tips. I wonder if I'm heeling the gun - My shots actually are a little to the right and up (2 O'clock). I think I need a lot more trigger time with these guns before I start fiddling with them.

Thanks for the tip on turning the barrel. it sounds like filing the rear channel would be better (assuming its the gun and not my technique).

I will check out rimfire central - it looks like a great board.

Educated Hillbilly
April 26, 2008, 02:13 PM
Here is the link to the chart: http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf/files/TargetRightHanded.pdf

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