[JSR]

I printed and filled out the application last night and will mail tomorrow.As I understand it,there isn't an extreme amount of record keeping,just a transaction log,the BATF inspections only come every 2-3 yrs(unless possibly you bought 500 firearms last week),they are NOT un-announced,and you can occasionally sell a rifle with the intent of upgrading your collection?Also any C&Rs you own cannot be modifyed in any way?
Any other input on the above or anything else,other than I'll probably go broke,and have to talk to the UPS guy daily? Any body have any nightmare stories other than waiting for months to be approved?I was told the waiting time depends a lot on what state you live in,if they'r getting a lot of apps from that state its usually longer.
Jeff

[BenW]

The inspections, I'm told, are VERY rare. Also, you have the option of meeting the BATF agent at your place or theirs.

The modification thing is being discussed on other threads here, and you might want to check out some of the dedicated C&R forums for more info. The way I'm looking at modifications is, if it's a restorative modification it's okay, if it's not restorative, the gun gets removed from the C&R logbook and becomes a regular old gun.

If you didn't get the citizenship form, be sure you download that and include it with your application, or your license paperwork will be held up. I got my license in about 15 days, and that was in California over the Christmas holidays. For some reason Texas, where you'd think anything gun related would go smoothly, seems to have the longest average wait.

[JSR]

Thanks,I ran across one of those threads so far browsing thru here. :confused: I'll keep looking on that one. Guess that is in a grey area.I got the citizen ship form and I'll send the copies to the local CLEO certified or registered so I have delivery confirmation,just in case:uhoh: .
Jeff

[PKAY]

Hey - What's this "citizenship form" stuff. I completed my green forms and had two complete sets of fingerprints done. Submitted my paperwork and fee to both BATF and the provided copy to my local CLEO. BATF didn't provide any separate citizenship form in the materials they sent me to fill out. All went out 12/31/02. Haven't heard back yet. Also applied for a COE for CA eliminating the 10 day wait on C&R's. That also required two complete sets of fingerprints. Your help is greatly appreciated.

[cratz2]

Oh man. I meant to post on that other thread concerning sporterizing C&R rifles. I saw an auction on gunbroker.com or auctionarms.com of a clearly sporterized rifle that said C&R was acceptable. Still doesn't make it concrete, but having always been under the understanding that this was not acceptable, I took note. I'll see if I can find that one.

[PKAY]

Hey - What's this "citizenship form" stuff. I completed my green forms and had two complete sets of fingerprints done. Submitted my paperwork and fee to both BATF and the provided copy to my local CLEO. BATF didn't provide any separate citizenship form in the materials they sent me to fill out. All went out 12/31/02. Haven't heard back yet. Also applied for a COE for CA eliminating the 10 day wait on C&R's. That also required two complete sets of fingerprints. Your help is greatly appreciated.

[BenW]

PKAY --

The citizenship form was started after 9/11. You can download it from the BATF website. It basically just states that you're a US citizen. It asks for the signature of someone who can confirm you are a citizen, and you can sign that part yourself, so it's sort of an administrative boondoggle more than anything else.

Since you already sent your paperwork in, they won't process you without the citizenship form. They send you a notice and have you fill out the form. I've seen on the C&R forums that some guys who forgot their form have called the BATF Licensing Division and were able to FAX the citizenship form in. You might want to try that.

If you did fingerprints, I think you may have sent in the 01FFL (dealer) form instead of the 03FFL form, which requires no fingerprints.

[Greg L]

The citizenship form issue isn't cut and dried. I mailed in my application without it last year (Sept 2002) and got my FFL 17 days later. The best that I can figure is that I'm already on a BUNCH of lists. :D

OTOH, a friend of mine (who used to have a 01 FFL so they already knew of him) sent his C&R application in in Dec (2002) without it and he got a letter saying that they needed it to complete the processing. He did and received the FFL a week later. Who knows?

Greg

[Greg L]

Full auto mouse, sorry :rolleyes:

[Greg L]

Ooops, another one.

[Greg L]

One way to get to 100 posts :D

[PKAY]

BenW - I filled out the right form but BATF in L.A. confirmed I was to provide two complete sets of fingerprints with my application even though such a requirement is not mentioned in the instructions for the C&R license. They said nothing of a proof of citizenship form and provided none with the application materials. I'll wait to see what happens and report back. Thanks for your info by the way.

[PKAY]

BenW - I filled out the right form but BATF in L.A. confirmed I was to provide two complete sets of fingerprints with my application even though such a requirement is not mentioned in the instructions for the C&R license. They said nothing of a proof of citizenship form and provided none with the application materials. I'll wait to see what happens and report back. Thanks for your info by the way.

[Beren]

Just finished filling out my application and made a copy for the local CLEO. They'll go out in the mail tonight! Can't wait to get my C&R, thanks to recommendations here, I already have a list of four or five guns to order.

[PKAY]

Well, folks, I got it in the mail yesterday!! My C&R license and under separate cover a package of booklets with C&R listings, U.S. gun laws, etc. No proof of citizenship was required, but I'll wager they used my fingerprint cards to verify that. Now for the COE from the CA DOJ.

[jimcon]

I have had a C&R FFL (proper name is a 003 FFL) and have found that the best benifit is that Brownells recognizes it the same as any other FFL , except the you can not purchase a receiver of frame. What this means is that you can buy from them at dealer prices. I paid for the 03 in the first two weeks after getting it. I did not even buy anything from Brownells in the first 10 days.
It is great.

[Flying V]

Is it true that if you print the application, it must be printed on green paper? If so, where would one obtain green legal size paper?

[JSR]

Flying V,from what I'v read on one of the C&R boards,most guys aren't even using legal sized paper,much less green.Doesn't seem to matter,legibility is more important.
Jeff

[Hkmp5sd]

I've use white standard-sized paper for the last 15 or so years. No problems yet.

[BenW]

Congrats PKAY! Do you feel your credit card burning a hole in your wallet yet? Are your hands sore from signing dozens of copies of your license yet?:D

I'd sure be interested in how smooth the process is for the CA COE thing. I've been thinking about that myself. Hate the thought of more paperwork, but would love to be able to walk into Big5 for a couple of $50 VZ24s and walk out with them 30 minutes later (and you guys from the free states who can do that without paperwork keep your big traps shut!:p ).

[TexasVet]

I have saved enough on FFL transfers ALONE, at $20 a transfer, in the last year to renew my license for about 87 years! Not counting all the money I saved by buying mostly from wholesalers instead of the shows and stores!

[PKAY]

Just received my COE from the CA DOJ. Now with the C&R FFL I can purchase C&R firearms without the 10 day wait. Time to start looking!

[PKAY]

I made some inquiries of the CA DOJ yesterday regarding the purchases of C&R long guns and C&R handguns given possession of an 03 FFL and CA COE. The DOJ point of contact stated that while the long guns can be shipped directly to the address of record on the face of the 03 FFL copy and the 10 day wait waived, all C&R handguns must be shipped to an 01 FFL holder (transfer dealer) and cannot be shipped directly to an 03 FFL address. With possession of a valid CA COE, however, the 10 day wait for the C&R handgun is waived. He stated that this restriction was a federal one, not a CA DOJ regulation. I cannot find in the material BATF sent me regarding my C&R FFL where any distinction is drawn between C&R long guns and C&R handguns. Do any of you guys have a take on this? I posted this on Cruffler.com as well. Thanks for any info you may be able to provide.

[EOD Guy]

It seems that you got some partially correct information. In most instances, California law requires that all firearms transfers must go through a licensed dealer. There is an exemption in the law that allows C&R rifles and shotguns that are over 50 years old to be transferred without going through a dealer. The requirements are in California law, not Federal law.

[Carlos]

Californicate is your problem. There is no federal law regarding pistols being delivered to a 01 FFL if you order one. I've ordered pistols with my 03 and they came to MY door in two days.

Have fun with your C&R 03 FFL.

[BenW]

The C&R handgun thing is definitely a Calif. problem, which I'm circumventing by going to the Reno gun show in March (if I can afford to by then since I went nuts and bought 5 more rifles this morning).:D

[PKAY]

Well, guys, here's what I found out this morning after speaking with both the CRPA legal folks and DOJ. The C&R handgun issue is CA law (PC12078T2) not federal which draws a distinction between C&R long guns and C&R handguns. While C&R long guns can be shipped directly to the holder of an 03 FFL in CA, C&R handguns cannot. They must be shipped as modern handguns directly to an 01 FFL on behalf of the buyer whether the buyer is an 03 FFL or not. The handgun must be DROSed (and fees paid). If the buyer is an 03 FFL holder AND has a valid CA COE, he may take possession of the handgun immediately following DROS without the 10 day wait. Without the CA COE, however, he must wait the 10 days prior to taking possession.