1911 help


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rookie1911
April 27, 2008, 02:26 AM
Hi THR,

I am new to the gang and I am happy to belong. I recently purchased my first 1911, I am not rich so I purchased a Rock Island 1911. I heard they have potential to be good guns.

My goals are to have a soft recoil and I want a 2-3 lb trigger.

My reasons for these goals is that a buddy of mine was with Force Recon and his 1911 was setup like that. I want to shoot just like they do.

If someone knows what Delta Force does to their 1911's, I would like to know. I have seen them shoot and they are some pretty good shooters.

I would also like to find a good pair of USMC grips, if you know of a good place let me know.

Thanks
J...

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TwitchALot
April 27, 2008, 03:59 AM
My goals are to have a soft recoil and I want a 2-3 lb trigger.

My reasons for these goals is that a buddy of mine was with Force Recon and his 1911 was setup like that. I want to shoot just like they do.

If someone knows what Delta Force does to their 1911's, I would like to know. I have seen them shoot and they are some pretty good shooters.

Gun doesn't make a shooter any more than a pen makes a poet.

CWL
April 27, 2008, 04:14 AM
Welcome to THR rookie1911!

If I may suggest, you don't really want a 2-3lb trigger. Triggers this light are specialized and require light competition hammers, trigger sets and springs. This is for 'fun' and not reliable for combat or self-defense or safe carry.

Fighting M1911s usually have 4-5 lb triggers so this should be your goal.

But before you go modifying your new gun, I suggest that you spend your money on ammo & practice time. Nobody becomes a warrior without practice and more practice. I suggest that you put 5-6000 rounds of ammo thru your RIA in order to really know your pistol inside & out. After that, you should have a pretty good idea on what -if any- things you may want to add to your gun.

The Ruckus
April 27, 2008, 04:17 AM
Now, are you assuming that dressing your 1911 up as your military friend does will make you or the gun a better shooter? The best advice I can give is to find which accessories match your shooting style, and which work best for you.

Even better, if you want to shoot as good as they do, forget the accessories and spend that money on pistol shooting lessons, and range time. New panels will not turn you into an operator.

M47 Dragon
April 27, 2008, 04:31 AM
Delta Force... I have seen them shoot...

You cannot see that which does not exist. :scrutiny:

loop
April 27, 2008, 05:20 AM
The straight answer is: You eliminated the opportunity to have a firearm that performs on the same level as a Delta gun when you bought an RI.

Guns starts with the frame. Yours would not meet their specs.

Can't be done with the format you are working with.

If you want a great shooting 1911 there is no reason you can't have it with your platform.

Start with how you shoot the gun and how it performs.

Address your and its weaknesses one at a time.

The first change I usually make is the grips. Find some that when you grab the gun point naturally to your point of aim.

A heavy trigger is not a big deal. Get used to it and you won't notice the difference anymore.

Second change I make is sights. I choose something that works easily and quickly for me. They may not work for the next guy, but they work for me.

Now you are down to slide release, safety and mag release - and your RIA pistol has $700 invested in it.

Assuming you have appropriate leather and spare mags accumulated by now you are ready to get down to the innards, unless you still haven't got your grip straightened out.

If you still have grip problems you have to look at frame modifications.

A good trigger job will cost you about $400. That is, of course, going the cheap way. If you buy top-of-the-line parts you'll spend that on parts. Then you have to pay someone to do the work.

You are now at about $1,500 in a $500 pistol.

And it is still a RIA pistol.

Take what you have. Shoot it and enjoy it. Change what you don't like, but do it because it makes you happy - and remember every dollar is a 5 cent on 7-cent loss.

My favorite .45 auto is a $500 gun. I've put about $1,500 into it and with a little luck I could get $600 or maybe $700 out of it.

I don't care. It makes me happy.

My view, if you want a $1,500 gun buy a $1,500 gun. If you want something that makes you happy, buy what makes you happy.

But, don't try making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It will only leave you with unpleasant memories.

OTOH, my sow's ear has never lost a match.

And no, it ain't for sale.

HM2PAC
April 27, 2008, 05:57 AM
rookie1911,

Welcome to THR.

I would suggest you go out with your RIA and shoot it a lot. You'll find that the stock trigger is actually pretty nice. Dry-fire it as much as possible, this will help to break the trigger in nicely.

You can have a good gunsmith do a few mods to the pistol that will not break the bank. For instance I had mine upgraded with STI trigger, sear, hammer, and beavertail, and a SA slide release and match bushing for around $100 + parts. Next on the list is a set of good sights.

My sows ear shoots really well too.

1911Tuner
April 27, 2008, 06:00 AM
Easy guys. New member asking a valid question. He deserves a straight answer.

While the gun doesn't make the shooter, confidence in the gun tends to make one aspire to shoot so that he/she may one day be able to shoot up to the gun.

RogersPrecision
April 27, 2008, 11:04 AM
loop,

"A good trigger job will cost you about $400. That is, of course, going the cheap way. If you buy top-of-the-line parts you'll spend that on parts. Then you have to pay someone to do the work."

Could you please give us a breakdown of prices on this?
It sounds ridiculously high to me.
:confused:

Walkalong
April 27, 2008, 11:20 AM
Yea, even for the best/priciest work.

Enjoy your gun. Any decent gunsmith can improve on the trigger for you. I agree with earlier posts that a crisp 4 Lb trigger pull is all you need unless it is a competition gun.

1911Tuner
April 27, 2008, 11:47 AM
A good trigger job will cost you about $400.

Forsooth! So, THAT must be why all the top pistolsmiths are drivin' Rolls Royces...

ezypikns
April 27, 2008, 12:01 PM
I would suggest you go out with your RIA and shoot it a lot.

Go have some fun with your new firearm. Don't change ANYTHING until you're sure it will be an improvement for you. After shooting it for a while, you may find that "right out of the box" condition suits tou best.

BigO01
April 27, 2008, 12:06 PM
Force recon isn't some specialy congress created group of high speed killers and your "buddy" is full of it trying to pass himself off as one .

The operative word here is recon or reconnaissance the definition which is this " an exploratory military survey of enemy territory" , my brother inlaw was Force Recon in Nam and let me tell you they get the stock weapons any standard combat troups would .

By they way thier job is to gather intell NOT to engage the enemy .

This means unless he is in his late 40's it wouldn't even have been a 1911 it would have been a 9mm M9 and he would had to have been a Seargent or an E6 to even get that .

My nephew was a member of a Marine HRT "hostage rescure team" a decade ago and he was issued a standard M9 until they went to Sigs also in 9mm along with HK MP5's and the M4 , something like a HRT is a speicalized team not a Recon and even they don't get some high dollar customized 1911's .

A 2-3lb trigger is for target work NOT combat .

A fighting 1911 with a nice crisp 4-5 lb trigger is all that is needed and it's what the real experts use , now the wannabe's well , those clowns and their bogus advice will get you killed .

RobertFBurnett
April 27, 2008, 01:58 PM
Gun doesn't make a shooter any more than a pen makes a poet.

Yeah but a fountain tipped, Blue ink drippin, Waterman Expert II looks and feels so much cooler than a Bic at the poet range! ;)

I would suggest you go out with your RIA and shoot it a lot. You'll find that the stock trigger is actually pretty nice. Dry-fire it as much as possible, this will help to break the trigger in nicely.

You can have a good gunsmith do a few mods to the pistol that will not break the bank. For instance I had mine upgraded with STI trigger, sear, hammer, and beavertail, and a SA slide release and match bushing for around $100 + parts. Next on the list is a set of good sights.

My sows ear shoots really well too.

^ Good stuff! I have also heard good trigger improvement from dropping in the Wilson Combat trigger.

I would also like to find a good pair of USMC grips, if you know of a good place let me know.

I found these through some google searches:
http://www.diamondbacktactical.com/Caspian-Arms-1911-Grip-Panels-Army-USMC-P1254C121.aspx
http://www.ajaxgrips.com/ajax/ajax?set=25

I like these the best: http://www.kimberamerica.com/shop/product.php?xProd=336&xSec=18 But I usually like the darned most expensive things. :)

I don't know if they are your cup of tea, but they're a start.

Welcome to THR,

RFB

CWL
April 27, 2008, 02:04 PM
Hi again rookie1911, don't let us turn you off, we're not mean, just a bit grumpy sometimes -but the good intentions are there. There are probably centuries of experience from everybody that posted so far.

Listen to RogersPrecision, and look at his website if you want to see real custom 'fighting guns', people wait for a long long time for his gunsmith work -unfortunately, they are not made from RIA frames.
Also, 1911Tuner will steer you in the right direction.

While your RIA is a decent gun, it is more a pickup truck, not a sports car, you can't add big tires and expect to race it. But if you use it as it is intended to be used, you should get a lot of good milage out of it.

1911 guy
April 27, 2008, 02:04 PM
Take your pistol out and shoot it often. Put at least a thousand rounds through it and decide what mods YOU want, not what someone else says you ought to have. These usually include sights that work for you and a trigger you can manage cleanly and safely. As an example, I prefer a plain rear sight and highly visible front. Others like a three-dot set-up. As to triggers, anything from four to six pounds is usually good, I prefer about four for a carry gun, something much lighter can easily get tempermental. Suiitable for games, but nothing in the real world.

A trigger job is about a hundred dollar proposition, give or take a little, not four. Just for the record, I lugged around a lot of military issue hardware and was never issued anything with a two to three pound trigger pull. Remember that everything has to be deemed "soldier proof", or in my case, "sailor proof".

rookie1911
April 27, 2008, 04:19 PM
Thanks alot for all the positive responses. The best advice I received so far, that I got from all the responses is:

shoot my gun before I decide what I want to do with it!!!

I will definitely do that.

Thanks
J..

rookie1911
April 27, 2008, 04:29 PM
Hi

I would like to know how can I add pictures, I would like to add pics of my guns.

Thanks
J..

rookie1911
April 27, 2008, 04:33 PM
This is my rifle,

http://a245.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/23/l_2a64f5a42fce3109a872eeb1555b6714.jpg

http://a994.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/77/l_dedd41de81db9e5cbeec4a27c533d531.jpg

rookie1911
April 27, 2008, 04:59 PM
http://a204.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/17/m_9172fbee88b8a7f2e3a6fdad51734f7b.jpg

http://a269.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/92/m_e516790d7dcf395342c3ce239d544804.jpg

http://a534.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/119/m_105ce34542f1db1d6cfe3479ff7f79f5.jpg

My XD 45, nothing special done to it.

riceboy72
April 28, 2008, 02:05 AM
rookie1911,

First, welcome to THR. Good bunch of people here who share information and have a good time doing it. One of the best and well regulated gun websites available today.

Sounds like you have your answer to your 1911 question. Take your time with it and don't sink a bunch of money into it right away just because someone else tells you to, or because "my buddy's gun is that way." It can be a costly venture if you're not careful, and sometimes too much is exactly that - too much.

By the way, looks like you've got some nice hardware to start with. Good choices! Now get out there and practice, practice, practice!

RogersPrecision
April 28, 2008, 09:05 PM
:scrutiny:
DARN!!!!
I was hoping the poster 'loop' would come back to this thread and explain further about $400 trigger jobs.
:(
I think maybe I have been undercharging.
;)

steelyblue
April 28, 2008, 09:25 PM
By the looks of the AR, I think you are no stranger to letting go of bread!!! In regards to 1911's, welcome to the disease:neener: I hope you are not married(for her sake), and because you will probably hear a lot of:cuss:.

Do whatever you want to your 1911. Modding is half the fun for me. I have 2 kimbers. 1 in 9mm and 1 in 45. I love to add things, but mostly for comfort and practicallity. OK, maybe some sex appeal.
Oh yeah, I also have a Charles Daly frame with a Ciener 22 conversion kit on it.

AndyC
April 28, 2008, 10:35 PM
Nothing wrong with a Rock Island - they're workhorses. I have the tactical model:

http://img108.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/12/22/1000103-48x9bavnn.jpg

tbtrout
April 28, 2008, 10:58 PM
BigO01, your military experience is what? Some Marine units carried 1911's after 1985 and still do today. I carried one 88-92 and was only an E4. I also used an M14 as a DM. Stick to the 1911's and leave the Corps to those of us who lived it.

rookie1911
April 29, 2008, 12:01 AM
OOH-RAH

I'm a SGT, lovin life!

Semper FI!!!

Sato Ord
April 29, 2008, 12:06 AM
My reasons for these goals is that a buddy of mine was with Force Recon and his 1911 was setup like that. I want to shoot just like they do.

Reminds me of the guy walking up to the street musician in NY and asking, "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?"

The reply, "Practice man, practice!"

rookie1911
April 29, 2008, 12:14 AM
yup,

Thanks. I will defenitely shoot the hek outof my 1911, then I will decide what mods to do to better fit me.

I will defenitely shoot with other 1911 owners. That way I can shoot theirs as well.

Ske1etor
April 29, 2008, 08:32 AM
Reminds me of the guy walking up to the street musician in NY and asking, "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?"

The reply, "Practice man, practice!"

Heh... I always wanted to move next door to Carnagie Hall... so when someone asked me how to get to my house I could say "Practice, Practice, Practice.... and take a left!"


But back on topic, yeah man. Have fun shooting it and see what YOU want to change on it. You may end up liking it the way that it is. You may want to do a complete overhaul but until you shoot a bunch of rounds through it you won't know what you want to do.

robctwo
April 29, 2008, 09:41 AM
The best way I know to get light recoil is 3.8 grains of Clays under a lead 200 grain semi wad cutter. The best way to get a lot of practice is that load with a good progressive press. There is a gun smithing section here where the trigger job is addressed. I changed out the innards on a SA Black Stainless with very good results. Also became pretty proficient at detail stripping. Then the high end guns started calling............

Murdock
April 29, 2008, 03:50 PM
Force recon isn't some specialy congress created group of high speed killers and your "buddy" is full of it trying to pass himself off as one .


Actually, nobody is better at the reconnaissance mission than Force. Nobody.

They have also had a direct action mission for over 20 years, and are considered completely inter-operable with Naval Special Warfare SEAL units in the Special Operations Capable Marine Expeditionary Units, or MEU(SOC). They train extensively in hostage rescue tactics, and all manner of CQB. They qualify easily as "high speed killers." If Rookie 1911's buddy is in Force, he's "walking the walk," the real deal.

The reason for the very existence of the Kimber Desert Warrior pistol is Force Recon. These replaced the many-times-rebuilt 1911A1 pistols they had in inventory all through the 1980's and beyond, which had hi-viz sights and speed safeties. Kimber Desert Warriors were literally made to order for Force Recon.

And if no one has thanked you for your service yet today, SGT Rookie 1911, let me be the first. Enjoy that gun.

Semper fi. USMC Second Surveillance, Reconnaissance & Intelligence Group, Fleet Marine Force, Atlantic, 1991-1994.

TwitchALot
April 29, 2008, 04:43 PM
I mean no "roughness," as it appears some may have interpreted my statement to be. But it is what it is, and is more important than any gun. Mindset is everything, the gun a tool, and that's it. This is the first thing you will need to understand before you even try to become a good shooter. You shoot the gun, not the other way around. Good luck.

The Lone Haranguer
April 29, 2008, 05:31 PM
Nothing wrong with a Rock Island - they're workhorses. I have the tactical model:
If I were to get one, that is the one I would get. It has features I like - extended thumb and beavertail grip safeties, as well as more visible sights.

rookie1911
April 29, 2008, 07:50 PM
THR,

Thank you all for your support and the tips. I will most defenitely take them seriously. I will defenitely shoot my gun when day 10 comes and I pick up my gun.

Where can I buy .45ACP ammo cheap? Not cheap ammo, but ammo at a less expensive cost.

Thanks
J...

steelyblue
April 29, 2008, 09:17 PM
We all want to know that!!! Wal mart is as competitive as I've seen online. I guess, unless you reload, there is no good solution to the price problem.

rookie1911
April 29, 2008, 09:49 PM
Hi

I bought 100 rounds of winchester .45acp for $28.99. I found that to be a good deal. However, I was told that online buying is cheaper if large quanities are bought.

Thanks
J...

RobertFBurnett
April 29, 2008, 10:01 PM
^ Thats about the best non-volume, non-reload deal goin at the moment. I've also been keeping my eye on that Rem UMC 250 pack. The price/round is pretty close, I just wanna stock up soon and less trips for 100 rounds=less gas, which of you add that to your price/round...I try not to think about it. :)

RFB

FullEffect1911
April 29, 2008, 10:05 PM
that would be about as good of a price as i've currently seen both online or at local stores. Go grab up some more before they raise the prices on ya. :cool:

rookie1911
April 29, 2008, 10:10 PM
Hi

I bought a Rock Island 1911 and I have not picked it up yet(CA 10-day wait....sucks) and it only comes with 1 mag.

Where can I find some mags for the Rock Island 45acp?

I would also like to find some mags that hold 10 rounds for that same gun.

Thanks
J...

steelyblue
April 29, 2008, 10:27 PM
Check midway usa website. They have all kinds at good prices. Wilson 47d's will probably be recommended on THR.

FullEffect1911
April 29, 2008, 10:31 PM
Speaking from a proper function standpoint you would likely want to stick to the 7 round magazines with the dimple on the top of the follower.

A fellow High Roader named 1911tuner is probably one of the most knowledgeable people you'll likely find regarding 1911s. If you search the gunsmithing forum and the autoloader forum for 1911 for related topics using his handle you'll find all the reasons to stick to those proper 7 round mags with strong springs.

For instance here is some good magazine related info by tuner.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=63584&highlight=magazine

One of but many many posts.

rookie1911
April 29, 2008, 11:16 PM
I was reading some reviews on hi-cap and 7+ mags, that they jam ALOT. Specially, a drum style mag that held 25 rounds.

I will defenitely need some more mags due to the fact that my 1911 will only come with 1 mag.

Thanks
J...

rookie1911
April 29, 2008, 11:25 PM
HI

I would like to know what kind of Rock Island 1911 I have.

Do I have a 1911 Commander, Government, or officer?

The receipt has:

Rock Island Armory
1911 45ACP

SN- RIA107####

How can I find out which one I have?

Are all 1911 mags compatiple? I would like to find a mag that fits my application.

Thanks
J...

CWL
April 29, 2008, 11:38 PM
Govt. is the full-size gun based on the 1911A1 pistol. It has a 5" barrel. You most likely have this model unless it is marked differently.

Commander has typically a 4.25" (sometimes 4.5") barrel.

Officer has a 3.5" barrel.

Govt. & Commanders can share magazines, they typically come in 7, 8, 10 round mags.

Officer needs its own mag although you can convert standard Govt. mags to be used in Officer-sized pistols.

RobertFBurnett
April 29, 2008, 11:44 PM
Please don't mistake me for an expert, thats 1911tuner gig.

I believe you have a 1911 Government. 5" Barrel right?

A good reccomendation is to buy mags from somewhere with an easy exchange policy. I just had a batch of Chip McCormick Power Mags not like my Kimber, so I sent them back to www.midwayusa.com and have some Wilson 47D (47 is their .45 magazine the "D" is the 8 round version instead of stock 7 round). I have not recieved them yet but I will let all know how they go.

RFB

P.S. You mentioned Cali, where you at? I'm in Northridge.

mr.trooper
April 29, 2008, 11:52 PM
Only thing I would change are the grips and sites.

For ME, tham means a set of Williams Fire sites, and a Pachmayr Wrap-around grip on my SA G.I. 45. that about $80 of stuff on a $500 pistol.

rookie1911
April 30, 2008, 12:03 AM
http://pictures.auctionarms.com/635/6398032d67d668d7ff6bd5d811b80527.jpg?aa=20080429205837
This is NOT my gun, it is only a pic from the web

The 1911 I purchased does have a 5" barrell and it looks just like the pic above. It must be a govt.

Thanks
J....

RobertFBurnett
I am in Camp Pendleton

Hanzerik
April 30, 2008, 01:39 AM
I picked this up last Sunday at a gunshow. Also had him throw in a extra 7 round mag, and I picked up a couple Colt 8 rounders as well.
ETA: the Government mags will also work in the RIA Compacts, they just stick out of the grip a little ways.
http://hanzerik.sh.nu/gallery/Gun-Stuff/RIA1911/thumbs/042008_14591.jpg.thumb.jpg

1911Tuner
April 30, 2008, 06:37 AM
Nitpick mode on:

The only manufacturer who makes a "Government Model" is Colt. Ditto for Commander and Combat Commander. Those are Colt trademarks.

The WW1 and WW2 USGI pistols aren't Government Models...not even those that were made by Colt. Only Colt's commercial pistols were/are Government Models.

Nitpick mode off:

Murdock
April 30, 2008, 08:54 AM
Both McCormick and Wilson magazines are very good. Wilson used to give a discount to active duty personnel. I have been very satisfied with them.

Yes, all 1911 magazines should be compatible, but you still have to check stuff in your own gun. Nothing makes a greater, cheaper and easier contribution to reliability than good magazines.

IMO, skill with magazine changes is much more important than the specific capacity of any given magazine (6, 7, 8, 15, etc.).

Before you spend big bucks on modifications (other than sights and maybe trigger pull), buy a reloading rig, preferably a progressive press. You will never be sorry.

rookie1911
April 30, 2008, 08:59 AM
What is a realoding rig?

Thanks
J...

FullEffect1911
April 30, 2008, 09:14 AM
What is a realoding rig?

He is referring to the appropriate equipment to make you own ammunition from components. If you are interesting, all the information you could hope for is in the reloading forum on this web site.

Reloading is a detailed hobby in and of itself.

Murdock
April 30, 2008, 12:33 PM
Reloading is a detailed hobby in and of itself.

Like Full Effect said, a reloading press.:o

Don't be afraid to get started in this. Reloading will provide tremendous freedom of choice in your shooting interests (like when you read about the .44 Special, and how nifty the guns are that use it, but that factory loads are limited in power and diversity). And it's the only way to make lots of centerfire practice affordable, even if you stick to just the .45 ACP.

Lee and Dillon make the two brands most worthy of consideration. The Dillon stuff is unsurpassed for warranty and customer support, but you pay for it. The Lee equipment is a little tricky compared to the Dillon, but much cheaper. With a good progressive press you can turn out 500-1000 rounds per hour.

rookie1911
April 30, 2008, 07:25 PM
It is interesting, it would be nice to make some rounds with HE.(If its possible)
My wife would probably kill me if I turned the garage into an armory and a ammo factory.

All joking aside. How much does it cost to make ammo?

Thanks
J...

HM2PAC
April 30, 2008, 07:33 PM
rookie1911 wrote:
it would be nice to make some rounds with HE

Most track vehicles will not fit into the brass case. Some Massey-Fergusons may fit.

rookie1911
April 30, 2008, 07:38 PM
I meant HE=high explosives
not HE as in heavy equipment.

Funny, because I deal with both in the Marines.

Thanks
J...

tbtrout
April 30, 2008, 11:50 PM
45 acp HEDP rounds will get you in trouble. So will any white star clusters. Reloading will allow you to shoot more for less, but as anyone who does it will tell you, any savings per round is more than spent on equipment or the ability to load and shoot more.

rookie1911
May 1, 2008, 12:08 AM
That is true. I will be better of buying ammo than making it.
Thanks
J.....

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