FOX News just called the M4 a "heavy weapon"


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BammaYankee
April 27, 2008, 11:37 AM
In a lead in to a story about the situation in Chicago, FOX's resident former Marine pilot turned news anchor (I forget his name) just said the. M4 carbine is a "heavy battlefield weapon"!!

IMO FOX has a bias against guns in general - they seem to run more negative internet gun related stories on a daily basis than CNN or MSNBC- but this is rediculous!

I wonder if R. Murdoch, being an Aussie, has encouraged this negative bias against guns. Not so 'fair and balanced' as far as I'm concerned!

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Kentak
April 27, 2008, 11:42 AM
That's being pretty loose with military terminology. Should know better.

BammaYankee
April 27, 2008, 11:52 AM
The anchor who said it was Greg Kelley.

Don Gwinn
April 27, 2008, 11:54 AM
I doubt there's any conspiracy. Standard New York City attitude toward weapons of any sort, and he probably never gave it a second thought.

TAB
April 27, 2008, 11:56 AM
I'd bet you could hand him a M4 and a M14 and he could not tell then two apart, but I bet he could tell you which one was "heavy"

riverdog
April 27, 2008, 12:08 PM
The anchor who said it was Greg Kelley.Is that the same Greg Kelley who's father is the NYC Police Commissioner? Yeah, he could be biased; he probably thinks the Sullivan law is reasonable.

ClickClickD'oh
April 27, 2008, 12:25 PM
FOX's resident former Marine pilot turned news anchor (I forget his name) just said the. M4 carbine is a "heavy battlefield weapon"!!


Well, how much tacticool junk was on it? That garbage can get pretty heavy.

Rembrandt
April 27, 2008, 12:35 PM
I believe his military title is Major Greg Kelley, who probably knows more about aircraft than small arms terminology. With that said, half the people who post on gun forums make similar errors.

Give ol' Rupert credit, Fox does have the greatest selection of blond bimbos of any news organization bar none.

romma
April 27, 2008, 12:52 PM
Compared to handguns,, They are heavy weapons Fellas...

Maybe not the ammo, but M4 is a step up in firepower for sure.

Werewolf
April 27, 2008, 12:58 PM
Compared to handguns,, They are heavy weapons Fellas...OKayyyy... That's a bit of a logical stretch.
Maybe not the ammo, but M4 is a step up in firepower for sure.Compared to WHAT?

No way is an M4 considered a heavy weapon by the military. Only a completely uninformed, who cares about the facts, probably biased against firearms, type would consider it a heavy weapon.

Apologists... <shakes head in wonderment>

Jorg Nysgerrig
April 27, 2008, 01:00 PM
I wonder if R. Murdoch, being an Aussie, has encouraged this negative bias against guns.

Next thing you'll know he'll be encouraging people to eat vegemite and start off the news with "G'day!" :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure Don Gwinn in right on the mark.

Geronimo45
April 27, 2008, 01:00 PM
OKayyyy... That's a bit of a logical stretch.
The speaker was supposed to be a pilot, who would potentially be more familiar with the Beretta than an AR.

P.S. Plus, it probably just came right off the teleprompter.

mp510
April 27, 2008, 01:04 PM
Actually, that is a pretty accurate statement. The M-4 is a battlefield weapon, and is a lot heavier than, say, a pistol.

Pilot
April 27, 2008, 01:06 PM
Yes, Greg Kelly's dad is NYC police commissioner, but I doubt he's a liberal as he is a former active duty Marine Harrier pilot and currently a Lt. Col. in the Marine reserves (he was recently promoted). He is a personal friend of Lt. Col. Oliver North and spent a lot of time in Iraq with him and we all know North's a conservative and pro 2A.

I am shocked Kelly would refer to an M4 as a "heavy seapon", but it could have been just a slip of the toungue. Give this guy a break. He is a combat veteran and from what I can tell a good guy.

rocinante
April 27, 2008, 01:19 PM
Compared to handguns,, They are heavy weapons Fellas...

Maybe not the ammo, but M4 is a step up in firepower for sure.

Ditto on what I think Fox was trying ineptly to communicate.

The more Chicago and DC keep being crime capitols of America the less and less sense their 'sensible' and 'common sense' crime control (left speak for gun control) seems 'sensible' and 'common sense' to voters. More and more people are actually believing they need to take personal responsibility for their own hides.

BammaYankee
April 27, 2008, 01:30 PM
I will concede that my Murdoch comment was, upon retrospect, off the mark and I have nothing but respect for Greg and FOX on whole.

My original intent was to highlight that news outlets inform and shape public perception, especially those outside of gun forums such as THR. Point is, like any other issue, to those not in the gun communities, their perception IS their reality.

Case in point... I have a friend I introduced to shooting recently who was nervous about firing my AR because of what he had heard on TV- ie it was a very powerful and abnormally dangerous weapon. After firing it he even laughed and said what a 'joke' the recoil was.

I will bet a dozen Krispy Kreme's that many here have had a similar experience. All I am saying is those who have the power to shape other's reality have a responsibility to get the facts straight and be unbiased, which has been FOX's stated mission all along.

I just think they veer off their neutral political course now and then.

meef
April 27, 2008, 01:48 PM
:eek:

No no no!

The M4 is most definitely not a "heavy battlefield weapon"!

It's an "assault rifle". That's what it is.

And it really, really, really isn't a "battle rifle"!

How do I know these things with such unshakable, almost religious, certainly?

I've had certain folks here educate me on the error of my ways.

I see the light.




:neener:

::now where'd I put that stick I use for flogging deceased equines?::

Tommygunn
April 27, 2008, 01:49 PM
Fox News is more "balanced" than other cable or MSM media but that doesn't make them any more knowledgeable about firearms.
Another thing I hear which has contradictions is that these can fire @800 R.P.M., but other sources said they are getting semi auto versions.
Which is true?
I don't know -- and I really don't care; but it goes to show how "precise" and "accurate" our TV media is.:uhoh::scrutiny::banghead:

gym
April 27, 2008, 01:56 PM
It's just a constant misuse of terminology, to create "news". Same as calling a 22 caliber auto, an automatic weapon, they do it all the time, some are just ignorant, and some are knowinglly looking to sensationalize the story.

rcmodel
April 27, 2008, 01:59 PM
I guess then that an 870 with rifled slugs would be a "Really Really Heavy Weapon"?

rcmodel

Deanimator
April 27, 2008, 02:21 PM
I'm NEVER surprised by the ignorance, intellectual laziness and dishonesty of the commercial media.

K3
April 27, 2008, 02:42 PM
An AR type rifle with a varmint barrel has some heft to it....

VARifleman
April 27, 2008, 02:44 PM
I guess then that an 870 with rifled slugs would be a "Really Really Heavy Weapon"?
And an M240B would be a "LOL *** Destructive Tool of SATAN!"

...even though it's a MEDIUM machine gun.

Winchester 73
April 27, 2008, 02:54 PM
The speaker was supposed to be a pilot

Greg Kelly bio:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,74735,00.html

158 carrier landings.

RustyShackelford
April 27, 2008, 03:19 PM
This big CPD/M-4 news story reminds me of when in 1997, after the LAPD/North Hollywood shootout, the LA city govt and Police commission finally allowed LAPD patrol officers to get rifles; the weapons the LAPD bought and displayed to the LA media were old, used CA national guard M-16a1 5.56mm rifles, :rolleyes:. I used a beat up old M-16a1 in my military training and know how poor they are compared to the A2 models or even better a SIG or HK or Beretta rifle. But $$$ is the only thing some police chiefs/elected officials care about, not the safety/welfare of the LAPD officers, :mad:.

It's a lot like all the media press the new LAPD/SIS Kimber .45acp pistols have got. The LAPD SIS unit was "covert" for many years. The SIS members worked undercover and were not listed in any LAPD budgets or rosters. Why the SIS would allow Kimber to go on and on about these new .45acp pistols is also beyond me. :rolleyes:

Threeband
April 27, 2008, 03:31 PM
Gangsta Gun:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9379/22shrtrd4.jpg

Heavy Battlefield Weapons:


http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/photos/onub/onub15.jpg

and

http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/jpg/quad50.jpg



I guess the M4 falls somewhere in between...

fearless leader
April 27, 2008, 03:51 PM
I wonder how Fox would classify a 255mm Howitzer?

DKA
April 27, 2008, 04:01 PM
I look over a lot of statements made on national television, especially from NY, because they have a different language and most know nothing about any gun.

Treo
April 27, 2008, 05:15 PM
QUOTE: " I wonder how Fox would classify a 255mm Howitzer?"

I'd be more interested in were they were gonna find one.

I think you meant 155

Cannonball888
April 27, 2008, 05:27 PM
Some ARE heavy :neener:


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/232/495503767_a8909c9bfb.jpg?v=0

Rachen
April 27, 2008, 05:42 PM
Well, how much tacticool junk was on it? That garbage can get pretty heavy.

Nowadays, you can find folks whose tacticool gear is far more expensive than their orgininal weapons. I seen pics of these, some so fully loaded with all kinds of tactical gear, that I can't even see the weapon that they are mounted on.

Now, Fox news has the reputation for making guns look like the meanest and most feared objects, trying to fan the flames of social hysteria.
I would say that Fox news is a threat to human survival on this earth because they are experts in rumor-mongering and fear-mongering.

In Shanghai in 1977, just a few years after the Tangshan Earthquake killed over 200,000 people, some guy yelled "Earthquake!" in a crowded apartment complex at 3 AM in the morning. The resulting stampede of terrified people killed 10 people. My mom lived in that same building on Szechuan Road at that time, and broke her hip in a fall when she tried to flee the building.
The "prankster" was arrested, charged with murder and received a pretty heavy penalty, if you know what I mean.

FOX NEWS is no different than a joker who yells "Earthquake!" in a crowded place right after a devastating earthquake has killed many people elsewhere.
Both of them have no regards for human life and use the human instinct of panic and fear for their own sick and twisted personal gain and thrill.

Jorg Nysgerrig
April 27, 2008, 05:44 PM
It's kind of funny. This thread is mocking a newscaster for overstating the power of the M4, yet just a few threads down, we have people claiming that issuing this same weapon is tantamount to creating a police state. Take this comment, for example, "Get it over with. Give the cops Abrams, Strykers, Bradleys, SMAW's, AT-4's, M240's and up-armored HMMWV's, and just get it over with."

Which one is it? Is the M4 an anemic assault rifle or the unstoppable tool of oppression?

Rachen
April 27, 2008, 06:08 PM
Which one is it? Is the M4 an anemic assault rifle or the unstoppable tool of oppression?

The M4 is just an M4. A gun is a gun is a gun.

However, the INTENTIONS of the current administration in Chicago and other cities is to oppress the population.
For example, imposing gun control laws in an attempt to stop crime and imposing gun control laws to oppress the population are two different INTENTIONS. They are easily recognizable.
In the first example, when gun control is imposed as an attempt to cut down crime, the lawmakers will realize, shortly, that the law doesn't work and quickly repeal it, and start more effective measures, such as the Right To Carry Campaigns.
However, in the second example, when gun control is imposed to oppress the population, it will be under the guise of "crime control". However, even as crime rates soar and most realize that gun control do not work, the lawmakers refuse to repeal it, and instead, MORE gun control laws is passed. Each crime becomes an opportunity to pass more restrictive gun bans.

Judge Roy Bean once said "One who steals a single dime, will steal a million dollars if they have the chance".

Kentak
April 27, 2008, 07:06 PM
Doesn't "heavy" weaponry sort of start at .50 MG and go up from there?

K

sacp81170a
April 27, 2008, 07:28 PM
I always figured when you got to "crew served" you were in "heavy weapons" territory.

Carl N. Brown
April 27, 2008, 08:14 PM
Fox is supposed to be the right-wing network from hell with PMS,
but it was CNN that actually ran a debunk of the infamous "Assault
Weapon" demo where a pre-ban AK was fired into cinder blocks,
while a AWB compliant AK was shot into the dirt off camera.
Fox consistently ran video of full-auto SMGs when discussing bans
on semi-autos. Fox is not fair and balanced on gun issues.

romma
April 27, 2008, 08:54 PM
OKayyyy... That's a bit of a logical stretch.

Why is that a Logical Stretch? It is completely logical to me that compared to handguns, an M4 rifle is a heavier weapon.

Both in physical weight, and knock down power...


Compared to WHAT?


Compared to handguns that your typical police carry...

Werewolf
April 27, 2008, 10:54 PM
Quote:
OKayyyy... That's a bit of a logical stretch.
Why is that a Logical Stretch? It is completely logical to me that compared to handguns, an M4 rifle is a heavier weapon.Compared to handguns a crossbow is a heavy weapon.

Both in physical weight, and knock down power...I'm not gonna argue that. The point is the M4 was called a heavy battlefield weapon. Battlefield - that means military. In the military heavy weapons that aren't artillery start at .50 Cal, include mortars, recoilless rifles, mortars, TOW and other anti-tank wire guided missiles etc.

An M4 is a light infantry weapon. That's all there is to it! People - if you're not a military tech/history buff or have never been in the Army or Marines you probably ought to avoid commenting regarding military terminology.



Compared to WHAT?
Compared to handguns that your typical police carry...Not really - at normal police combat ranges the lethality of an M4 can arguably be considered greater than that of a pistol but at 10 yards a hit in the heart from a .45ACP or .40S&W will kill you just as dead as a 5.56 NATO.

When's the last time a police shootout occured at ranges greater than 25 yards or so? And even if they do occur occasionaly that still doesn't make the M4 a heavy weapon. It's still an M-16 variant designed for urban combat by light infantry forces.

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