[hnm201]

Well, I am not a happy customer. Thusfar my kel-tec experience has not been good. The purchase of two brand new pistols resulted in hours of frustration working out kinks and dealing with manufacturing defects. Anyway, I wouldn't have bothered if the kel-tec didn't promise something I very much need - a very concelable and lightweight 9mm handgun. I just wish it delivered. I should have bought a G26. But I wanted something different. For you computer geeks out there, kel-tec is to glock as linux is to microsoft, if you know what I mean (and I'm an MCSE).

But the Keltec seems to be so much easier to carry. So I thought had I to really try to make the most of it before throwing in the towel. I had two major complaints about my P-11:

1) It didn't function out of the box. My brand newP-11 was locking open about 50% of the time. And a Kel-tec is "Made in America"! Boy, I wish they wouldn't tell anyone that.

2) The sites were a complete joke. They look like they came off of of something purchased at Toys R US.

Instead of sending to Kel-Tec for repair I sent it to Jack Fusilier and spent the $$ for a fluff and buff and nickle-plating. I then had Jack send it Kel-Tec for night-site installation ($80). I got the pistol back yesterday and only got to look at it today.

Jack does amazing work. He really transformed the "look and feel". I only wish that I had seen it before he sent to Kel-tec.

Kel-Tec CNC did a rather amateurish job installing the night sites. They came with a nice big scratch on the rear sites and the front site isn't on straight. Please see the pics. I know that sites get scratched eventually but if my sites have a scratch on them, I'd like to be the one that put it there, not the gunsmith that I paid to install the sites.

http://dombosco.home.insightbb.com/ktp11-sites-1.JPG

http://dombosco.home.insightbb.com/ktp11-sites-2.JPG

http://dombosco.home.insightbb.com/ktp11-sites-3.JPG

http://dombosco.home.insightbb.com/ktp11-sites-4.JPG

http://dombosco.home.insightbb.com/ktp11-sites-5.JPG

[Sven]

Wow - that is really pathetic. How did they let that out the door?

[.45FMJoe]

Take a couple of deep breaths, and call Marty at Kel-tec. He is the head gunsmith. He will tell you to send him the slide (doesn't require the $30 overnight UPS BS) and he will make it right. I'm sure if you ask, he'll throw in a spare mag or something to that effect for your trouble. He posts on KTOG.org all the time and I have NEVER seen him blow anything off. He is always willing to help.

[Standing Wolf]

Sights. Trust me.

[Josey]

Hey People say: Josey, why are you so down on Kel-Tec? They are junk. I will never own another one. Did I mention they were junk?

[Andrew Wyatt]

Don't have a hissy fit about it. Nicely call up marty and have him make it right.


It's just a crooked sight. no huhu, and it's a cheap fix.

[denfoote]

It's just a crooked sight. no huhu, and it's a cheap fix

I think his point is that there should not have to be a "cheap fix" at all!!! :fire: :barf:


Yup!! You should have gotten the Glock!!! :banghead:

There is still hope though, because:

Restance is futile. You will be assimilated!! :evil:

Soooooo, lose that nickle plated sissy pistol and get yourself a Glock!!! :D

[Andrew Wyatt]

yeah, yeah, yeah i've heard all that crap before.


It's not a big deal to send it in to the manufacturer to have it fixed, and it's a whole hell of a lot cheaper than buying a larger and harder to conceal glock.

[c_yeager]

It strikes me as a bad omen that SO many people are on a first name basis with Kel Tec's lead gunsmith. Good customer service? yes. But, honestly having to call the manufacturer to fix problems like this shold not have to be such a common occurance.

[alamo]

I guess they know Marty's name because he posts regularly on the KTOG forum to answer questions. I don't know of any other manufacturer that does this regularly. I think this is preferable to say Taurus, you can't talk to any gunsmiths there. You just get a customer service person who knows nothing but to tell you to send it in for repair.

This is the first report of poor site installation I recall seeing on a KT, don't believe it is a common occurance but it looks pretty bad. Marty told him to send it to him and he would make it right and reimburse shipping.

[Snowdog]

I have had nothing but professional results from my dealings with Kel-tec, with a turn-around time that puts most manufacturers to shame.

However, what I am seeing here really disappoints me. I absolutely agree that this handgun should never have left the shop in that condition.
If this were to happened to me, I would be seriously pissed, as I have absolutely no tolerance for incompetence, disrespect and laziness.

[Andrew Wyatt]

If this were to happened to me, I would be seriously pissed, as I have very absolutely no tolerance for incompetence, disrespect and laziness.


how does this show any of those?

[Snowdog]

how does this show any of those?

Quite simple; a quick look at the images supplied by domzilla9 leads me to believe that any one of those characteristics is exactly what we're looking at.
I suppose I feel so strongly on this issue because I take pride in everything I do and judge most by that standard.

Seeing the included images tells me the individual that installed the front sight either wasn't competent to do a satisfactory job, didn't care much for how the customer might view the work, or simply had better things to do (in their opinion) and spent little effort getting the job done correctly.

Can the problem be rectified by Kel-tec? Of course it can, but the principle of the issue is that it had to be dealt with to begin with. There is absolutely no excuse for the shoddy workmanship displayed in the above pictures.

Bottom line (in my book), the job was not done correctly and most any excuse that might be offered would fall within one of the three catagories I listed.

[Andrew Wyatt]

*shrug* even the best people screw things up. Like i said, it's a cheap fix, and staking sights on is an imperfect science.


it might not have looked that way when the guy (who probably stakes on fifty or a hundred sights a day) put it on.



I daresay that I find it hard to get angry at people who make mistakes making things that i buy, because i know how hard running a lathe or mill is.

[.45FMJoe]

Yes, snowdog is correct. The only thing is, he obviously does not own a business. I can't tell you how much stuff I throw back at my employees EVERYDAY. I can't do all the work myself, so I have to keep them employed. The types of people employeed in manufacturing and/or service type business are not educated. They might hold a high school degree, but they certainly are not highly paid learned individuals. Trust me, it shows. It shows in everything they do. That is why there is Quality Control. Hopefully everything is caught before it goes out the door. Unfortunately, it doesn't always. But, if it does get out, then the company should throw in a little something for "compensation" as a "we're sorry and value your business."

[firestar]

domzilla9,
How much total do you have in your P-11? Me thinks you would have been better off with a Glock or a Kahr and you would probably have spent less on one of those!

My experience with Kel-Tec has been very poor also. I know the "gunsmiths" Marty and Valerie over at Kel-Tec also. I had a P-32 that had many FTE jams and then broke it's trigger axis while sitting in my pocket. The slide stop would only work 50% of the time but I ddin't even consider that a problem next to the major flaws this gun had. Its too bad because it is such a light and flat gun. It would be nice if a decent gun company could make a P-11, P-32 or a P3-AT.

If it were just one problem, I would have (and did) forgive Kel-Tec but taken as a whole, I would say my P-32 was a compleat lemon and POS. Mutiple problems, one after another on the same gun does not inspire great confidence in a gun that is supposed to save your life.

[usnavymasterchief]

45FMJOE, from what I've seen, I don't believe Kel-Tec has a Q.A. Dept. I own two P32's and a P11 all three have flaws in workmanship that should have been caught at the factory. Two of the three have made trips back to the factory. In all fairness to KT, I also HAD (underline HAD) an S&W 340PD that cost right at $700 with tax that was a genuine POS in fit and finish, sold it at a loss and was glad to get rid of it. So I now carry an all stainless Kahr K40 that has run 100% right out of the box. From what I hear and read, Kahr's Polymer pistols are giving their owners problems.
I also read that our troops in Iraq are having feed probs with their Baretta magazines and wasn't it the early M-16's in Nam that caused some of our troops to get killed? Even Kimber and SA knock out a few lemons.
So what's my point, as Joe says, it's hard to find reliable help who GAS. Most American companies can't afford to pay a reasonable wage to attract good employees, if they paid great wages, their products would be priced out of the market. Who gets stuck with the poor products? You and me.
I still believe "Made In America" means something, I drive a Ford F150 (probably made in Canada) even American Icons like Harley-Davidson have carbs and fork tubes made in Japan. We as Americans need to wake up and smell the coffee before our national drink is Saki and our favorite american sport is soccer.

[coldshot03/04]

Stop prying on the sights dude.Mine works fine. And shoots fine. They maybe a little rough at first. But I have seen worse. Are you the guy that tried the shotgun bead on his P32? Maybe you would be better off with the Llama line.tehehe:D

[mlk18]

I have had problem guns, and quality control issues, from several gun manufacturers who charge a helluva lot more for their guns than Kel-Tec CNC does. If Kel-Tec will make it right, and throw in a bonus for your troubles, then that's the sign of good customer service and support. Q&A doesn't mean skippy to me if they blow you off once they have your money. I have owned several Kel-Tec's and they were all outstanding guns for the coin. If one bad experience meant trashing the entire company for all time, then there would be alot less Glock, Sig and Beretta owners out there.

mlk18

[hnm201]

Marty at Kel-Tec has offered to replace my night sights for free. I picked up a *second* kel-tec P-11 "used" but unfired - it came with a grip extender on the mag and a belt clip for $200.00. I am planning on trying to track down a .40 S&W top end kit for the gun. I took my P-11 w/the bungled sights to the range yesterday and did well with it. It's growing on me, even though I am shooting a little low with it. Practice makes perfect.

[ThirdShiftRich]

I like your unix:windows analogy, its amazing to see the same types of replies from followers of unix; "it doesn't work, you just have to do this and this and this and this to make it work, but once you get it working its so cool".

[hnm201]

Well Unix is really cool. And Linux is inexpensive. And so is a Kel-Tec P-11. I went to my fav gunshop. They had a minty used G26 for 400 and a minty used P-11 for $200. I decided to play spin the wheel and bought the P-11 (my second one now) and spent the difference between the two guns in practice ammo. Took the P-11 to the range and it performed flawlessly. No fluff, no buff. The gun had obviously never been fired by the appearance of the innards. I just lightly cleaned and lubbed it before taking it to the range.