Which Auto Loader - Semi Auto for Clays????????

[g4string]

I am wanting to start getting in to clays........I am not sure which way I will go, ie, skeet, trap, sporting clays. But I would like to get the best, and more importantly right gun my $$ can buy. My budget is about $750-$1000. Thanks!!

[JRSpicer426]

As a courtesy, stay away from the ported clays guns, your friends will appreciate their hearing in 5 years-

How about a used Montefeltro?

[kentucky_smith]

I'd look for a Remington 1100 or a Beretta 391.

[RNB65]

Beretta AL391 Urika.

Go to any sporting clays competition. The vast majority of shooters using semi-autos will be shooting Beretta 391's. Nothing else is even close.
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[NAK]

I recommend the the Beretta AL391 Optima (over bored). Several levels of finish and bling, but they are all based on same stuff where it counts.

I have tried a several guns in that price range and keep coming back to the Beretta AL391 Urika.

The Remington 1100 just does not feel right to me...just does not fit me well.
Benelli make a nice gun and they feel go to mount, but they seem harsh and I had problems with lighter loads.

Some say the Beretta takes too much cleaning time.
After every outing, I run a bore snake through my Beretta and give the action & trigger group a good shot of cleaner/lube, but I only clean the gas system every three to four cases of shells. Works for me, but your mileage may vary.

[Milkmaster]

If you want to shoot clays with a semi-auto, I vote for the 1100. Many more of the 1100's at the local trap ranges here. At least for the working class folks I mostly see. Some of the reason may be cost of the Beretta. Both are nice guns and reliable. Reapir parts are plentiful for either should you need them. Enjoy!

[ArmedBear]

1100 is not a good choice for ducks and skeet. You'd want to get two different barrels. That makes it far too expensive for what it is.

Best NIB gun for that money is probably the US-made Beretta 3901. It will shoot skeet loads and duck loads, it swings nice, and it's not too expensive.

[PJR]

Beretta 391.

It is miles ahead of the 1100.

[throdgrain]

I use my Benelli M2 for all kinds of clays, sporting, skeet and down the line, never fails, as reliable as you can get.

It's also shot no small number of wood pigeon and rabbits in its time too :)

[BozemanMT]

Beretta 391

all that and pretty too

[JNewell]

Have a 391 and a couple of 390s. I really prefer the gas system in the 390, which is the same as the 3901, although I like the slimmer stock and forearm on the 391. The 390 is at least as dependable and very simple to strip, clean and reassemble.

[Virginian]

I recommend the Remington 1100, but that is because it fits me and I like the way it points. You should go and handle some shotguns and see how your tastes run. An 11-87 is a slightly updated 1100 that will digest 2-3/4" and 3" fodder. You may prefer the Beretta, or something else. You will find much more in your price range used. Browning once made a B 80 that a few people loved. Good luck.

[ArmedBear]

I'd get the Winchester Select Field that CDNN has for $899. Yes, that's a NIB Belgian-made Winchester O/U for 900 bucks. They're great guns.

Range shooting is one- or two-shot. I'd much rather have two chokes, no flying hulls, and a gun that rests comfortably on a toe tab between shots, and cleans up in a minute or two, than any semiauto ever made.

Have used almost nothing but an O/U in the field, too, since I finally got the first one.

The only exception is someone who is very recoil-sensitive. A gas-operated semiauto can really help. Otherwise, the O/U wins on every count I can think of, assuming you don't have to pay twice as much for it.:)

[bratch]

I'm using a M1 Benelli.

[Smitty in CT]

The Mossberg 930 would serve your needs very well, you'd get all of the reliability PLUS you'll save yourself $350 - $600, thats a lot of $$ for ammo and range fees...

[atblis]

Beretta 391 Optima. This is coming from a Remington shooter. The Remingtons shoot just fine, but I am sick of replacing dumb little parts. The Beretta is just a better design with better manufacturing.

As a courtesy, stay away from the ported clays guns, your friends will appreciate their hearing in 5 years-

You know they have these wonderful things called ear plugs?

[ArmedBear]

Ported guns still suck.

Stupidest thing anyone ever did to a shotgun. Does nothing but make the thing louder and harder to clean.

[atblis]

I too think it's a waste of money. None of my guns are ported. However, I've never noticed that it makes shotguns obnoxiously loud (definitely louder though).

[ldp4570]

Guess I'm really behind the times, I still use my 1959 made Browning Auto-5. When purchased she came with three barrels, 24", 20"slug, 30". Don't need much else.

[ArmedBear]

I too think it's a waste of money. None of my guns are ported. However, I've never noticed that it makes shotguns obnoxiously loud (definitely louder though).

Our trap range has a building behind the 27 yard line, with a wide veranda where you can rack your gun, have coffee, etc. (Really, it doesn't look as nice as I just made it sound, but it keeps the sun/rain off you anyway.) The echo in there when someone shoots one of the more recent Brownings with the collander barrels gets really loud.

[Dirtypacman]

Another Beretta 391 owner and I would recommend it to everyone.

[SimpleIsGood229]

Go handle as many shotguns as you possibly can. Get someone with experience to come with you, so (s)he can ensure you pick the gun that fits you best. Remember: fit is everything!

That's the only advice I can give. :)

[atblis]

Go handle as many shotguns as you possibly can. Get someone with experience to come with you, so (s)he can ensure you pick the gun that fits you best. Remember: fit is everything!

That's the only advice I can give.

Even better. Go to a skeet/trap range and shoot them. Very very few people will turn you down if you ask if you can shoot their gun. It's a compliment. Just say, "hey, I was thinking of buying one of those, would you mind if I shoot a round with your gun." Heck, most people will offer without even having to directly ask them. Often they'll even offer to supply the ammo. Etiquette demands you turn down the ammo offer (unless it's a gauge you don't have).

[Hawk]

I too think it's a waste of money. None of my guns are ported. However, I've never noticed that it makes shotguns obnoxiously loud (definitely louder though).

Never say "never", I guess.

I'm gradually coming to grips with the ported one I got due to a mis-communication on an order.

But, apart from the ribbing I take due to my having sworn I'd never own one, it's not bad. The porting doesn't accomplish anything but it's mostly harmless. Browning sure does put a lot of holes on those sporting models. Lots of holes. It shoots nice enough I'm almost over it. Fortunately, we don't have an overhang of any description.

As to the OP, the semis where I hang out are mostly 391s and Browning Golds with more of the former. The Browning folks seem a happy lot despite the fact that I'm now one of them by virtue of my new much-ported O/U. The Golds are ported too. We've learned to embrace the ports; become one with the ports. It's a zen thing.

[mswestfall]

I bought a used AL 391 Parallel Trap. It's a great gun.

[Snarlingiron]

The porting doesn't accomplish anything but it's mostly harmless. Browning sure does put a lot of holes on those sporting models. Lots of holes.

Hmmmm. So does Hans Vang.

[btg3]

The Remington 1100 just does not feel right to me...just does not fit me well.
Neither Remington, nor Beretta, nor anything else will fit everyone.
Get what fits YOU.

[10-Ring]

I bought my Beretta 391 several years ago -- and LOVE IT! Best investment I ever made! You won't regret it

[Pete409]

Neither Remington, nor Beretta, nor anything else will fit everyone.
Get what fits YOU.

I take a different approach to shotgun fit. Buy the gun you LIKE, then take the necessary steps to make the gun fit you. Why buy something that you don't like, that may not be reliable, may not be suitable for your needs, and may be ugly as heck...... just because it kind of "fits" you? :confused:

For a beginning shotgunner, gun "FIT" is only an approximation anyway. Until the beginner has shot many thousands of rounds, he/she won't have a repeatable shooting style anyway. Gun fit depends to a large extent on shooting style, and shooting style is something that often changes as the shooter develops his skills and gains more experience.

In short, buy what you like. If necesssary, get an "approximate" fit, then learn how to shoot. Some proper instruction early on will pay big dividends in time, money, and saved frustration. Then, once you become a pretty good shooter, you'll probably be in the market for another (better?) gun anyway. That's the time to get serious about gun "fit".

[RNB65]

Pete is exactly correct. You don't buy a shotgun based on fit. You buy a shotgun based on reliability and handling characteristics. Then you pay a gunsmith or stockmaker to make it fit.
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[ArmedBear]

Snarlington, from Hans Vang's web site:

the lengthened forcing cone, the back-boring, and the compensating ports make up the Vang Comp System. The VCS has been estimated to reduce felt recoil by about 15%

I've reamed the chambers on a gun with old-style forcing cones and the felt recoil went down by at least that much. Lengthening forcing cones has a noticeable impact.

"Backboring", slight overbore barrels, longer choke tubes, etc. can improve a pattern. What you're really doing with that, though, is making a different choke. Take a cylinder bore, and enlarge the middle of the barrel, and what you get is more like an IC choke on a slightly larger-bore barrel.

Just from messing around with shotguns, I'd say it's pretty safe to state that the results Vang claims have to do with the changes to the barrel's inner geometry, not the collander holes.

Now all those holes might keep the muzzle down a bit, but when you're shooting clays or birds with a gun that fits, there is no discernible muzzle rise. You can shoot two rounds in the same spot, or along your swing, just by pulling the trigger twice quickly as you swing the gun. Muzzle rise might be an issue for some of the holds that tactical shooters use, but not for clays -- if it is, your gun doesn't fit or is a very poor design. The remedy is not drilling a lot of holes in the barrel.

[ArmedBear]

You don't buy a shotgun based on fit. You buy a shotgun based on reliability and handling characteristics. Then you pay a gunsmith or stockmaker to make it fit.

Why?

If you can find a quality gun, and you take it to the range, and your score jumps up, that's as good a reason as any to buy it, isn't it?

Doesn't mean that you can't get an even better fit, of course, but at least you're starting somewhere half-decent. If the gun doesn't fit at all, how do you know you like it, unless you have a lot of experience with many different guns, and can imagine how it would feel with a change here and a change there? Someone looking for a first or second gun won't have this.:)

[Hawk]

Just from messing around with shotguns, I'd say it's pretty safe to state that the results Vang claims have to do with the changes to the barrel's inner geometry, not the collander holes.

Pretty much. The amount of impact derived from the holes alone I doubt is perceptible without instrumentation on a sporting-clay weight shotgun with the usual compliment of back / over boring. Recoil and / or muzzle rise was a non-issue with my Beretta O/U and remains a non-issue with the ventilated Browning.

What is perceptible is a minor increase in noise and a few more seconds cleaning the thing. The free market is a wonderful thing; if Vang, Magnaport and others can derive income from holes, more power to 'em.

Now that I have a ventilated shotgun I'm going to learn to live with the holes. I will no doubt suffer karmic payback if I ever said snide things about porting earlier in life as the Browning now fits me better than the Beretta and I'll be using it more for the time being. But I'll likely go to my grave before I try convincing anyone that they contribute anything positive to a clays gun. I would first have to believe such a thing and I don't see that happening. "Mostly harmless" is the closest I can get to a ringing endorsement. Naturally, those that believe they accomplish something of a positive nature should avail themselves of the things whether OEM or aftermarket.

FWIW, Renaissance wax applied to the Browning's barrels reduce the additional cleaning chores to near zero. Nice stuff.

[PJR]

Ported guns still suck.
They do. I was test shooting a Benelli Cordoba not too long ago. I liked it alot even to the point where I was contemplating replacing my beloved Beretta 391 but the porting ruled it out.

[ArmedBear]

a ringing endorsement

LOL

Couldn't have put it better myself.

The free market is a wonderful thing; if Vang, Magnaport and others can derive income from holes, more power to 'em.

Yup.

There may be a rice shortage, an ammo shortage, but there will never be a bull**** shortage.:D

the Browning now fits me better than the Beretta

Is it for sale?:)

[RNB65]

Why?

If you can find a quality gun, and you take it to the range, and your score jumps up, that's as good a reason as any to buy it, isn't it?

Sure, if you're lucky enough to find such a gun. But life is too short (not to mention gas being $4/gal) to make repeated trips to every gun store you can find hoping to find a shotgun that fits you perfectly. Buying a shotgun is like buying a fine suit -- you buy what you like the most then pay a professional to make it fit properly.
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[ArmedBear]

Sure, but I'd rather not start out with this suit.

http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/17247.jpg?is=350,350,0xffffff

[atblis]

If you can find a quality gun, and you take it to the range, and your score jumps up, that's as good a reason as any to buy it, isn't it?
I've found that there's a placebo effect of sorts with new shotguns. You see a nice new shiny expensive gun that you want to like. Initially when you shoot it, your first round might be higher. Then.... your scores will eventually drop below their usual. After shooting the gun for a while they come back, maybe better.

[Smitty in CT]

ArmedBear,

Where do I get one a 'dem??? I'd really be "sportin" on the sportin' clays course... :what:

[birdbustr]

If talking semi-auto, I am very happy with my Browning Gold. It is gas operated has a much lighter recoil than the older A-5. I also think that the 1100s are reliable and have certainly proven themselves over the years. I have always preferred Browning autoloading shotguns. Pumps I prefer Remington 870s.

I do think shotguns aren't so much "FIT" dependent, but more "FEEL" dependent. It's the way your eye should naturally be at a point of aim when you bring up the shotgun. At the same time you don't want to be kicked to death. No matter what anyone says, with the same shotshell a double barrel is going to recoil more (unless ported, but LOUD). But then again I think if a shotgun recoil is a problem then you need to go to a smaller gauge or lighter load.