Who packs heat after they've had a few?


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Timradcliffe345
April 28, 2008, 02:09 AM
Just like the thread title says. Do you carry after you've had a drink or two?
Please vote in the poll.

-God Bless America

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General Geoff
April 28, 2008, 02:13 AM
I never drink (not even a single beer), so I guess my answer is "no."

Coyote Blue
April 28, 2008, 02:15 AM
1 beer or wine,max.

m38shooter
April 28, 2008, 02:16 AM
If I know I'm going somewhere that I'll want to drink, I leave it home. If fate takes me somewhere that there's alcohol with no planning, tough luck, I stay dry.

theken206
April 28, 2008, 02:20 AM
define carry?? im not 21 and dont CCW.

im out here in the serious boonies and we drink and run around with guns quite alot.

SaltH2OHokie
April 28, 2008, 02:24 AM
Nope. I told my girlfriend that my guns are going to make me skinnier because I drink water or sweet tea instead of beer at dinner as of late since I have a pistol on my side.

I won't lie and say that I've never had a gun and beer in my possession at the same time, but I can safely say I've never been close to intoxicated and had a loaded gun anywhere on me or near me. It just doesn't mix in my mind.

I also don't like when friends who carry have more than 1 or 2 in an hour's time. I just don't feel all warm and fuzzy like I normally do when in the company of armed friends.

Bazooka Joe71
April 28, 2008, 02:24 AM
Sounds like an appetite for disaster to me...

I want to die defending myself w/o a firearm only slightly less than I want to go to prison.

Timradcliffe345
April 28, 2008, 02:25 AM
define carry??

I define carry as being in the posession of a firearm on your person.

zxcvbob
April 28, 2008, 02:28 AM
Who says "packs heat" anymore? :barf:

theken206
April 28, 2008, 02:35 AM
yeah, all the time then.

i dont care if i cant stand up, the four rules are the four rules and sober or totally hammered, if i cant follow them, i wont be in possesion of a firearm

Soybomb
April 28, 2008, 02:50 AM
Where's biker? He'll say what I want in a much more direct way than I usually do.

I don't turn into an idiot just because I've had a couple drinks. I don't take any special precautions with my gun any more than I take any special precautions locking up my cutlery because I've had a couple. If you have problems control yourself when you've had a couple drinks you might need a different course of action but as usual simple one size fits all rules don't work.

lloydkristmas
April 28, 2008, 02:55 AM
I dont have a carry permit yet, but it seems like the biggest issue would be if you had to use the gun and had been drinking. Even if you only had one beer or something, how will it look to the jury? You never know how some prosecutor could spin that whole thing.....I dont see any harm in having a couple and carrying, but from a CYA standpoint, it seems like a bad idea.

Im less worried about the alcohols effect on my judgement as I am the juries outlook on me having alcohol in my system at the time of a shooting, even a justified one.....

ReadyontheRight
April 28, 2008, 02:56 AM
Who packs heat after they've had a few?

Thomas Jefferson.
George Washington.
Benjamin Franklin.
Sam Adams.
John Adams.
Theodore Roosevelt.
Franklin Roosevelt.

Probably a few others we all admire.

I am not condoning drunken weapons handling. I am just pointing out that a few drinks don't necessarily mean criminal behavior as gauged by our current standards.

It still amazes me that people will argue that a reasonable person should not have the right to grab a gun to defend their own property after having a few drinks.

The defendent does not choose the time and place of the attack.

The reasonable conclusion would be that there is NO time for a reasonable, law-abiding person to have a cocktail...because you could be attacked at any moment.

theken206
April 28, 2008, 02:57 AM
agreed soybomb

Soybomb
April 28, 2008, 02:58 AM
I dont have a carry permit yet, but it seems like the biggest issue would be if you had to use the gun and had been drinking. Even if you only had one beer or something, how will it look to the jury? You never know how some prosecutor could spin that whole thing.....I dont see any harm in having a couple and carrying, but from a CYA standpoint, it seems like a bad idea.
Who cares how it would look to a jury? If you're using your gun it should be because you faced great bodily harm or death. Isn't a legal battle preferable to death?

Ragnar Danneskjold
April 28, 2008, 03:15 AM
I hardly ever drink. Meaning maybe 1 or 2 shots every 6 months or so. Nothing else. When I do, I don't carry. Even if I did drink more, I enjoy and prefer carrying to having a headache, upset stomach, slurred speech, bad reaction time, and making a fool of myself.

And I'm not looking to lose my carry privleges forever because of something stupid like alcohol.

VARifleman
April 28, 2008, 03:19 AM
I don't drink in public, but I have no quarrels with having a gun around when I'm at home and had a drink or so.

Kind of Blued
April 28, 2008, 03:20 AM
I'm waiting on my permit, but I am going to conduct myself the way that the law says I have to, because I find it to be a rather logical/reasonable law. If I am going to be over the legal limit to drive, I won't be carrying. If I can properly operate a car, I can properly operate a gun should I need to. If I can't drive a car down the road without endangering people, I can't fire a round at a criminal without endangering others.

I've decided, with some intentional extra precaution, where this point lies. Two beers in one meal's time if eating a meal. One beer on an empty stomach, or two on an empty stomach in a meal's time (about 90 minutes).

When I'm at home however, I carry when I'm drinking. There is no "getting drunk and whipping it out". If a (gunny) friend wants to see my pistol, I will perform the slowest draw in the world, with cartoonishly-exaggerated respect for the four rules, and clear it, otherwise it stays holstered. Period. The only exceptions are if someone breaks in to my house or if I am attacked by a wild animal in my backyard while having a cigarette/cigar. ;) Unlikely, but it could happen, and I think it is a good sign that I already have these things decided prior to my permit going through.

LawofThirds
April 28, 2008, 03:40 AM
I don't drink in public. It's too expensive and I'm usually a designated driver if alcohol is to be consumed. (Any alcohol+driving=stupid imo)

If I drink at home, I'm not getting drunk, and rest assured I'm not playing around with a loaded firearm.

While I agree that the four rules apply at all times, I still feel that wise choices go beyond just following rules. Alcohol (or any other intoxicant) limits your ability to make rational choices. Therefore, I make a rational choice before hand to not put dangers where they aren't needed.

MTMilitiaman
April 28, 2008, 03:42 AM
Never.

One time a while ago, my grandpa and one of his brothers, my great uncle, went through a bottle of Wild Turkey with a 12 pack of Coke. In the process, they got to discussing guns and my uncle pulled out his new Mini-14 Ranch Rifle, only to discover that during storage, the action had, for whatever reason, seized shut and wouldn't budge. He tried yanking it, stomping on it, and all manner of colorful language, but nothing worked. It did draw attention, however, and my brother and I were soon crowded around, trying to ignore the humor in the situation and offer a little sober assistance. I was leaning over the rifle, pointed at the deck, as my uncle fumbled with it, when without warning, he said "Ahhh, [expletive] it," flipped off the safety, and pulled the trigger. Well, 55000 PSI of pressure was enough to unseize the action. But with the left side of my head directly over the compensator, I had an instant headache. My ears rang (for several days, in fact). I was dizzy and disoriented. And slowly, I noticed a .22 caliber hole an inch and a half from my big toe. The message was crystal clear to me--alcohol doesn't belong with guns any more than it belongs with vehicles. So when I drink, I don't operate heavy machinery or power tools, I don't drive, I don't operate firearms--the most dangerous thing I allow myself to pick up is an Xbox controller or a Taco Bell Value Meal.

Besides, it takes very little alcohol to turn my normally reserved self into a completely different creature, abandoning all inhibition, and with a little more alcohol, looking for a fight. I don't always win (rubs lump on head) :o

I should probably explain that my brother is the wild one, and the alcoholic, so most of the time, I don't drink--I drive and try keep him from getting a mud puddle stomped up his rear end (again, not always successfully). So when I do get a chance to drink, I drink...

CannonFodder
April 28, 2008, 03:46 AM
Nope. Not here.
Guns and liquor aren't friends... in fact, they make enemies real dang fast.
If I'm drinking, the tools stay locked up.

lvcat2004
April 28, 2008, 03:47 AM
I'm with most reasonable people here that said "NO" to alcohol and firearm. They just don't go together IMHO and it makes me upset to see/hear people handle firearm while drinking as much as those people who drink and drive.

jenrob
April 28, 2008, 04:20 AM
If I go out to drink my wife comes sense she doesn't drink she carries.

After 2.5 beers I get a migrain so that limits the beer, but not the Crown and pepsi. Now the last drink I had was 3-4 months ago and it was a beer with a meal and I carried then. I don't do the bar scene any more.

Regolith
April 28, 2008, 04:21 AM
No, but then I don't drink anyway. I think it's kind of a waste of money; I'd rather feed my shooting habit than a drinking habit. ;)

theken206
April 28, 2008, 04:27 AM
i cant tell you good scotch is NOT a waste of money, nor is guiness extra stout

guntotinguy
April 28, 2008, 04:34 AM
I never do that,its not a smart thing to do...

theken206
April 28, 2008, 04:39 AM
ps, will do it tommorow, will do it then next day most likley.

dont have anymore holes than i was born with and sure plan on keeping it that way.

once agin, cant abide by the four rules, dont handle a gun, PERIOD

then agin, i dont get drunk anymore these days either.

nice stiff single malt highland scotch, maybe a guinny or two and thats it for me.

maybe every other day a couple of MGD's whilst im working cutting wood or getting the garden ready.

one thing i wont do is drink and drive, simply because of the legal ramifacations

Bazooka Joe71
April 28, 2008, 04:43 AM
OK Ken, you are under 21 and you drink and play with guns...You've told us 3 or 4 times. We get it now.:rolleyes:

lvcat2004
April 28, 2008, 04:47 AM
i cant tell you good scotch is NOT a waste of money, nor is guiness extra stout

Neither is a good glass of wine that complements the food.

I would say it's a much better way to spend my money than a sugar-laden soft drink.

theken206
April 28, 2008, 04:49 AM
want bragging by any means.

just trying to show/say that drinking and playing with guns as it were does not have to unsafe, doing stupid things and being irresponsible is whats unsafe.

thinking you "know better" or imssh not drunkss man, screwww offff" is what gets people hurt and being unsafe around firearms, what ever state your in is not tolerated around me or mine.

being around safe, like minded people who, as well have no damn intentions on having anymore holes than god gave them is also what keeps ya safe no matter what the situation.

theken206
April 28, 2008, 04:51 AM
"Neither is a good glass of wine that complements the food."

yes indeed, a good red wine, a lil pasta, some warm french bread is a darn fine meal

OMGWTFBBQ
April 28, 2008, 05:04 AM
I haven't, but I know myself well enough that I wouldn't have a problem with doing so. Then again, when I say a few, I mean just that, 3-4 drinks(defined as containing the equivalent amount of alcohol as a shot(1.5oz) of 80 proof liquor) over the course of an hour and a half or two hours. Sometimes that means 5 lower alcohol beers or 1 imperial stout.

Another point that I think has to be made, I safely handle guns, I shoot guns, and I carry guns, but I don't "play" with guns. "Playing" with guns(especially "unloaded" ones) is how accidents happen, whether you're drunk or not.

theken206
April 28, 2008, 05:10 AM
also, just another quick thought here, youll notice he said "a few" not pass out fall down slur you speech DRUNK.

im a good sized kid, healthy, who always eats well even before having a single scotch or a beer.

two or three drinks would effect me much less than someone smaller, or hadnt eaten or doesnt drink at all im sure.

i personally very much enjoy sitting on my back porch drinking a not so cold beer with my dad and shooting a little skeet in the late afternoon.

im sure when the old guy has passed on its a memory i will cherish very much

theken206
April 28, 2008, 05:13 AM
"but I don't "play" with guns. "Playing" with guns(especially loaded ones) is how accidents happen, whether you're drunk or not."

agreed, funny how its often those "jut playing around" with "unloaded" guns that get themselves or those around them hurt/dead.

Jimmy Dean
April 28, 2008, 05:37 AM
If I am sober enough to be driving, then I normally have my pistol with me. If I am past that point, well, the pistol may be nearby, but not on me. normally still loaded though

Elza
April 28, 2008, 05:49 AM
I voted ‘never’ but it’s a moot point with me. I don’t drink.

coloradokevin
April 28, 2008, 06:00 AM
I won't lie and say that I've never had a gun and beer in my possession at the same time, but I can safely say I've never been close to intoxicated and had a loaded gun anywhere on me or near me. It just doesn't mix in my mind.

^ Not a bad line of thinking.

Personally speaking, due to my job requirements, and the location of the bars where my friends like to drink, I have pretty much taken on the permanent designated driver role, for the most part (which my wife loves!). Many of our friends are from hiking/climbing groups we adventure with, and therefore (sadly) lean a bit hippie-leftist. As such, my wife is really the only one who knows that I carry at the bar, and my friends just think that I am a boring non-drinker.

I'm not really much of a drinker to begin with, so this doesn't really trouble me. Drinking just doesn't often fit in with my health/fitness program, and I can probably count the number of drinks I have had this YEAR on one hand.

So, my friends and wife drink, and I sit in the bar watching for the bad-man to come. I'm boring.

AKCOP
April 28, 2008, 09:13 AM
Is anyone else getting tired of this type question or topic in one form or another? OK, I get it, some people drink when they carry, it is America, you make those decisions and you accept any consequences, good or bad that go along with it.
I am happy to see however that the majority of THR folks find it is not the responsible thing to do not only for themselves but for the standing of gun owners in general. When you mix alcohol and firearms you are playing Russian roulette, the more you down the more rounds go in the cylinder.
Does anyone realize the reason Ruger had to make the change to the "New Model" blackhawk is because of a drunk playing with his gun.
The dope shot himself and then sued Ruger for his stupidity.

Rich K
April 28, 2008, 09:19 AM
Guns and alcohol, like gunpowder and gasoline, don't mix. I personally don't drink, at all. Never. But there is too much potential for tragedy in that combination. If you have had a few, and do get into a situation, you are just plain old fashioned sc****d. Your judgement is severely questionable, IMHO.

Samuel Adams
April 28, 2008, 09:27 AM
My drinking days are over with.

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
April 28, 2008, 09:40 AM
I dont carry and drink only because I gave up drinking 2 years ago after realizing a fifth of beam a day wasn't what normal people drink. I have no issue with anyone else most people know their limitations and most normal people don't turn into raving maniacs after e few. One thing I will say to the people that do drink and carry is if you had to use your weapon while even slightly intoxicated you will have more legal troubles than if you were sober and the criminal you had to use it against will suddenly become a victim if he or his family have a decent lawer. Even if you can handle your liquor in my opinion it changes things legally in the eyes of a lot of people(oh no he was drunk and shooting a gun off) is how you can be portrayed especially if the prosecutor/grand jury you pull is mostly anti gun.;)

TimboKhan
April 28, 2008, 09:41 AM
It's illegal to carry a handgun into anyplace I would go to get drunk, so no, I never do. Add to that the fact that I rarely drink even a single beer anymore, and it makes it a non-issue.

I can't begin to think how awful a legal mess you would be in if you defended yourself drunk.....

PCFlorida
April 28, 2008, 09:46 AM
I do all my drinking at home so for me it is a moot point.

Of course all my drinking consists of 1 or 2 beers over a weekend...

Hokkmike
April 28, 2008, 09:47 AM
Tea totaller - proud of it. I don't care if others inbibe as long as the don't get drifty.

ronwill
April 28, 2008, 09:50 AM
I picked sometimes because I may drink one beer at home and then carry. If I know I'm going to be drinking at a bar, barbecue, etc., I don't carry.

the_man
April 28, 2008, 10:00 AM
For the Colorado folks, carrying a firearm and "being under the influence" will get your firearms confiscated as well as your permit to carry. I don't believe a person would stand a chance in a court of law in either a criminal or civil case if he was proven to be under the influence of alchohol. Keep your guns locked up when you need to get your party on:)

I tell my buddies if I pass on beer there's a reasonable chance I'm carrying.

shadowalker
April 28, 2008, 10:04 AM
I have not gone drinking while carrying but I have had a single drink with dinner on occasion.

Mr. Designer
April 28, 2008, 10:06 AM
I don't believe having some beer is a good enough reason for me to be defenseless. I never drink hard liquor and my "temperament" doesn't change as I drink. If your an idiot before you drink you'll be an idiot after you drink.

Biker
April 28, 2008, 10:10 AM
I drink and carry but I limit myself to one beer. At a time.

I like to keep my gun hand free.

Biker:)

Dismantler
April 28, 2008, 10:14 AM
I do not drink alcohol. There is too much alcoholism in my family tree. I have enough trouble controlling myself aroung peanut butter/chocolate candy! :)
I don't want to start on alcohol.

esq_stu
April 28, 2008, 10:18 AM
If I know I'm going somewhere that I'll want to drink. . .
I look at it the opposite way. Liquor is not important to me. If I have to choose between being armed and drinking (away from home), I choose being armed and forgo all alcohol. I consider anything more than a sip of wine excessive if I am armed.

OTOH, while at home, I consider one drink (a shot, glass of wine, can of beer) a slight maybe.

princewally
April 28, 2008, 10:31 AM
I'll drink a beer or two with dinner and still carry. If it's going to be more than that, the gun gets unloaded and locked up. There IS such a thing as responsible drinking.

subierex
April 28, 2008, 10:33 AM
Booze? Yes.
Guns? Yes.
Together? Never.

malakas07
April 28, 2008, 10:34 AM
It still amazes me that people will argue that a reasonable person should not have the right to grab a gun to defend their own property after having a few drinks.

This is a good quote.

So if you were in the privacy of your own home, you just had two beers mowing your lawn and two more while at the dinner table. BG thinks your wife is alone, forcibly enters your home and attacks your wife while your working in the backyard........You hear it and ....... What do you do? You just had a few.

I don't drink. meaning I don't purchase alcohol. I know it's Highroad to not mix guns and the devils brew. But even If I was hammered in my own home I'd be defending myself & family.

Chuck Dye
April 28, 2008, 11:03 AM
Q: Do you...?

A: Ah, yet another "Don't ask, don't tell..." question.

jrpbullrider
April 28, 2008, 11:11 AM
Now I know I will most likely get a beating for this but this is what I did to find out some info a few years back.
A few friends and myself went to a firing range for 1 reason that was to find out how many mixed drinks would make me a danger to others. We set it up a week before with the owner and a LEO that we new.
1st i went and drew my .357 and shot all 6 shots from 10 feet away then my .22lr from 50 feet away. I then went and had 1 drink waited 10 minutes then shot the same thing. we went thru and i drank 10 drinks in all over 2 1/2 hours. I shot pretty good up to about 4 or 5 drinks. then my group well went to %^$%. I did this with a LEO, the owner, and 3 friends right there with me to make sure I was safe at all times.
Now i know I was under control of others and there was no real problems or real danger to others or myself. I also know that it would of been diff if it was a real world danger but it told me what my aim some what would be. If it was a real problem the stress would of been a lot more. but hay it was fun and we all learned a few things. 1 of the things i learned was drinking a guns do not really mix I am a big boy now (6 FT. and 225 lbs) and I don't get mad when I am drunk and it take more than 1 or 2 drinks to get me drunk BUT the 2 should not be mixed the last group was so bad not all of the rounds hit paper. Now I do not remember all of the rounds where they went due to it has been a few years but I do remember it was NOT all good.

I did have the owner and a Leo with me to make it safe I would say if y'all do drink and carry just be safe and do the right thing. I can not say for all of you not to or tell you it will be safe but just be careful.
John
P.s. I love testing myself in this kind of a way.

American_Pit_Bull
April 28, 2008, 11:20 AM
Yes, I am a responsible adult and I do not drink to get "drunk".
I will enjoy a glass of wine, or a beer with my steak, while out to dinner with my family. And I will be armed while doing so.

I will not carry while intoxicated, but I will carry while I consume insignificant amounts of alcohol.

Zero tolerance rules are for the weak minded that are strained when asked to interject common sense into a situation.

If you are unable to consume one serving of alcohol, which will raise your BAC to cough syrup levels, and then go home and enjoy your evening... Then follow the zero tolerance rule.

If you are a responsible adult, have an adult beverage... Studies say that it does a body good.

Biker
April 28, 2008, 11:21 AM
Very good test, man. Know Thyself.

Biker

General Geoff
April 28, 2008, 11:34 AM
If you are unable to consume one serving of alcohol, which will raise your BAC to cough syrup levels

I'd venture to say that cough syrup is even more of an intoxicant than an alcoholic beverage. Granted, I don't consume cough syrup (or any other drugs, OTC or prescription).

Superlite27
April 28, 2008, 11:36 AM
Just as you have to do a thorough self evaluation to determine if you are responsible enough to carry a gun in the first place, you have to do the same with alcohol. Some people just shouldn't carry guns. Some people just shouldn't drink. Some people shouldn't do either. Yet I feel some of us are fine. It depends on what one is honestly capable of.
I see lots of preaching about how guns and alcohol NEVER mix. Yet, this is ignoring the differences and capabilities of each individual and blanketing all with the stereotype that we all become dangerous and irresponsible when imbibing.
I have been raised around guns and beer my entire life. Every fall, everyone I know takes their vacation off for deer season, and there's about ten of us who get together, drink heavily, and deer hunt. I've had friends and family pass out while in the woods.

"Where's Steve?"

"I dunno. Let's go check his blind."

Sure enough. There's Steve, surrounded by beer cans, out like a light. Someone carry Steve's gun. I'll carry Steve.

Gun safety has been drilled into us all for so long, that we instinctively know that we don't do things differently just because we've had a few. We don't start acting macho. We don't start experimenting. We don't handle our firearms any differently than when we're sober. I will admit that the potential for accidents increases dramatically. I've seen dropped shotguns go barrel first into the mud. I've seen rifles fall off truck roofs as Ron drives back to the barn. I've also seen people fall down stairs and split their heads open without a firearm in sight. You can do stupid things and die just as easily without a gun as with one.
As for myself, I have always been responsible, inebriated or not. I have never became a threat to anyone else's safety while intoxicated because I have performed a thorough self evaluation, and know that while I am more prone to accidents while intoxicated, I do not compromise safety. I've been around it my entire life.
Have I been places where everyone hunts sober? Yes. Have I been places where the guns are locked up before the alcohol comes out. Sure. I have no problem abiding by another's rules when at another's event. It's all in the amount of comfort you have with yourself and the individuals around you. If I'm at your house and you say "no alcohol", that's the way it is and I have no problem with it. But if you are at my house, and you see Pete drinking a beer with a pistol on his side, you can do whatever you like, have one yourself, lock up your gun before drinking, preach about our irresponsibility, or just leave. There are only four rules that will be enforced.

Biker
April 28, 2008, 11:41 AM
What's up with all these common sense posts lately?

Well said, Superlite.

Biker

Sheldon J
April 28, 2008, 12:10 PM
Never Ever Period.

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
April 28, 2008, 12:17 PM
Like I said in my last post I have no issue with people who carry around me and drink even though I dont drink. But as I also said if you ever have to use your weapon and alcohol is in the equation no matter how insignificant the amount your legal issues will increase, being legally intoxicated even it's clearly a life or death self defense situation and I would imagine you're in deep crap no matter how responsible you are.;)

IME
April 28, 2008, 12:36 PM
If I'm loaded, the gun ain't. :D

Gun Slinger
April 28, 2008, 01:01 PM
Alcohol and guns. At the same time.

A recipe for tragedy or at least a serious attempt at contention for the "Darwin Award".

Biker
April 28, 2008, 01:16 PM
Burp!

Biker:)

jackstinson
April 28, 2008, 01:18 PM
....

rainbowbob
April 28, 2008, 01:18 PM
...it makes me upset to see/hear people handle firearm while drinking...

Just like the thread title says. Do you carry after you've had a drink or two?

If you read the OPs question, it was: Do you carry after you've had a drink or two?

Not: Do you handle your firearm after you get fall-down drunk?

Not even: Do you handle your firearm after a drink or two?

Do you carry?

I don't get fall-down drunk.

I can keep my gun in my pocket holster and have a couple of beers. So what?

If I'm in a circumstance where my license is in jeapordy for carrying at all (e.g., a bar in my state) that would be the limit.

If I'm at home, or spending the night with a friend (thus, no driving involved) I might have a couple more. So what?

I'm not handling my firearm under those circumstances with these two exceptions:

1.) If assaulted, I have every right to defend myself and will do so to the best of my ability regardless of state of mind. And I repeat...I don't get fall-down drunk.

2.) when done for the night, I will very carefully remove my firearm in its holster and set it on the night stand.

Common sense, moderation, the four rules...it's not that difficult. If those three things are not a part of your everyday consciousness to begin with...then perhaps you should re-think your relationship with both firearms and alcohol.

Soybomb
April 28, 2008, 01:18 PM
Like I said in my last post I have no issue with people who carry around me and drink even though I dont drink. But as I also said if you ever have to use your weapon and alcohol is in the equation no matter how insignificant the amount your legal issues will increase, being legally intoxicated even it's clearly a life or death self defense situation and I would imagine you're in deep crap no matter how responsible you are.
And? Is taking the death option better?

Alcohol and guns. At the same time.

A recipe for tragedy or at least a serious attempt at contention for the "Darwin Award".
If you have a couple drinks with your dinner out do you ask for the plastic cutlery since taking a knife to the steak would be far too dangerous?

Cosmoline
April 28, 2008, 01:19 PM
"a drink or two" is not defined as intoxcation in this thread, though some seem to assume they're the same thing.

We run into this culture clash every time this issue comes up. For some folks, there is no such thing as drinking apart from intoxication. To them the point of drinking *is* intoxication. For others "a drink" is a form of food and has nothing to do with intoxication.

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
April 28, 2008, 01:30 PM
Cosmoline I clearly understand the difference my point is two drinks in a half hour you will fail a breath test and get a dwi. Why risk the legal troubles if you have to use your firearm. We all know two or even three is nothing but what if you happen to get a prosecuter that is anti gun and finds out you had a couple drinks then had to defend yourself, he will surely question your judgement etc. Even if I still drank I'm not willing to gamble going to jail for a good shoot for a couple drinks,murphys law definitely applies to me.

Vern Humphrey
April 28, 2008, 01:36 PM
The reason for carrying a gun is because you think you might need it to defend your life or your loved ones.

If you think that, it doesn't make sense to impair your faculties with alcohol.

Cosmoline
April 28, 2008, 01:37 PM
my point is two drinks in a half hour you will fail a breath test and get a dwi.

That's complete nonsense. What you are drinking, the food you are eating and of course your physical size make a huge difference in blood alcohol content.

what if you happen to get a prosecuter that is anti gun and finds out you had a couple drinks then had to defend yourself, he will surely question your judgement etc.

The ONLY place I drink more than a single pint of beer over food is my home. If the DA wants to bring up the fact that I was enjoying a glass of Laphroaig in my own home at night when an armed intruder broke down the door and I shot him, he can certainly try to do so. I'm not talking about getting blotto at some bar, picking a fight and then getting justly thrown in the slammer. I never drink enough to impact my judgment so much I can't tell if someone is breaking into my house or not.

I am *ALWAYS* armed unless it's specifically illegal to be armed (airport, court). If I were to refrain from drinking while armed I would never drink, or go through some absurd practice of locking up my iron when I sip some malt or beer. And if I were such a child I couldn't trust myself to have unlocked firearms while I drink, I would not trust myself to have either booze or firearms.

If you think that, it doesn't make sense to impair your faculties with alcohol.

Many things impair your faculties. Sleep, lack of sleep, anxiety, distraction, listening to music, talking to a spouse, watching TV. All of these are distractions that keep you from being totally aware of your environment.

SuperNaut
April 28, 2008, 01:41 PM
Drink ≠ Drunk

And a million threads like this one can't seem to get the point across.

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
April 28, 2008, 01:44 PM
An average size person 160 to 190 lbs that does two 1oz shots of 80 proof liquor in a half hour will blow a .08 to .09 if I'm correct .08 as stupid as it sounds will get you a dui in most states. Like I said it's just not worth it.

Soybomb
April 28, 2008, 02:09 PM
I'm going to try to get an answer to the question I've been asking in this thread over and over one more time just because :)

Cosmoline I clearly understand the difference my point is two drinks in a half hour you will fail a breath test and get a dwi. Why risk the legal troubles if you have to use your firearm. We all know two or even three is nothing but what if you happen to get a prosecuter that is anti gun and finds out you had a couple drinks then had to defend yourself, he will surely question your judgement etc. Even if I still drank I'm not willing to gamble going to jail for a good shoot for a couple drinks,murphys law definitely applies to me.
When are you planning to use your gun? If its when you're in fear of your life isn't the decision either 1.)be faced with some legal trouble because you had some alcohol in your blood or 2.)wind up dead or very seriously injured because you weren't able to protect yourself? Isn't not dying sufficient reason to carry even if it means you might be faced with additional legal hurdles should you defend your life?

shdwfx
April 28, 2008, 02:13 PM
don't drink

Vern Humphrey
April 28, 2008, 02:14 PM
When are you planning to use your gun? If its when you're in fear of your life isn't the decision either be faced with some legal trouble because you had some alcohol in your blood or that wound up dead or very seriously injured because you weren't able to protect yourself?
In such a situation, you want to be totally in control, with good reflexes.

So why ingest alcohol and reduce your chances of survival?

Isn't not dying sufficient reason to carry even if it means you might be faced with additional legal hurdles should you defend your life?
Isn't not dying sufficient reason to avoid substances that will slow your reflexes and affect your judgement?

Biker
April 28, 2008, 02:19 PM
Vern...

I've been civily sued for doing extreme violence. I'd been imbibing. I came out fine. The jury didn't care one bit.

Biker

Blackbeard
April 28, 2008, 02:22 PM
I don't drink, and I live in Ill-annoy, so there's absolutely no chance of me CWI.

Vern Humphrey
April 28, 2008, 02:24 PM
I've been civily sued for doing extreme violence. I'd been imbibing. I came out fine. The jury didn't care one bit.
But suppose it had been a gunfight, and you'd been a tad slow, due to alcohol?

Black Majik
April 28, 2008, 02:24 PM
I've never done it, actually stopped drinking too! :D

scurtis_34471
April 28, 2008, 02:25 PM
I think its really simple. If you've had too much to drive, you've had too much to carry. That's my rule, unless I'm in a jurisdiction that says otherwise.

In general, I only drink alcohol with food and limit myself to two drinks. Since there is no chance of a 200+ pound guy getting intoxicated by having two drinks over an hour or more period of time while eating, I don't worry about it.

Biker
April 28, 2008, 02:26 PM
Vern...Gotta die of something. Until then, I'm gonna live.

Biker

Gun Slinger
April 28, 2008, 02:34 PM
Alcohol and guns. At the same time.

A recipe for tragedy or at least a serious attempt at contention for the "Darwin Award".


Originally posted by Soybomb:
If you have a couple drinks with your dinner out do you ask for the plastic cutlery since taking a knife to the steak would be far too dangerous?

Soybomb,

Just because you need to do so doesn't mean that...

...I have a problem that you do and must resort to the use of plasticware because I cannot control myself. If you find such measures necessary, I commend you on your restraint, but encourage you to get help since you find such measures necessary.

...I drink when carrying a handgun. I do not. If I am carrying a concealed firearm, I forego all alcohol.

...I drink as much as you. I have perhaps one drink a month and the guns are "off limits" during that time. I prefer to exercise self-control and responsibility.

Cosmoline
April 28, 2008, 02:40 PM
An average size person 160 to 190 lbs that does two 1oz shots of 80 proof liquor in a half hour will blow a .08 to .09

Where are you getting that statistic from? Compare with this chart, which indicates 3+ shots would be needed even for an average size male:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content

Isn't not dying sufficient reason to avoid substances that will slow your reflexes and affect your judgement?

As I said, I don't drink so much that I stumble or have reduced judgment. Though I do both if I'm awoken at 3 AM, so I suppose I should avoid sleep. No human being is going to be alert and prepared 24/7. And there are many physical and mental states that impact our ability to make choices and react quickly a lot more profoundly than a drink with a meal. I you're not willing to defend yourself unless you're 100% alert, armed and waiting behind cover that's great. But you won't be able to do that for very long.

If I'm drinking a glass of beer and someone kicks down my door I will:

a) Grab my rifle or carbine
b) Get to a position of cover
c) React to the threat accordingly

That doesn't change whether I'm drinking beer or cranberry juice.

Mp7
April 28, 2008, 02:44 PM
hmm.

after reading all these answers i think
i now understand the harsh gun laws around here :)))

...maybe the german thirst for beer and firearms
donīt mix well :D

( i think itīs all about selfcontrol. If u go silly after 4 drinks - donīt
do 4 drinks. Not even without a firearm on you.)

Cheers from here.
Mp7.

3fgburner
April 28, 2008, 02:45 PM
I don't drink.

blkbrd666
April 28, 2008, 02:57 PM
I think firearms and drinking must go together in Italy. If not, can someone please tell me why they include the little blue convertible shotglass in the box with a new Px4? It seems to be a single shot one way and a double shot if you turn it over...has a nice little Beretta logo in the bottom of it.

Cosmoline
April 28, 2008, 02:59 PM
There was a thread about Italian arms recently that convinced me LSD goes with firearms over there...

blkbrd666
April 28, 2008, 03:05 PM
Is that what that piece of construction paper in the box was?!?!?! Thought it was a gun wrap.

Kind of Blued
April 28, 2008, 03:26 PM
don't drink

That was brief enough that holding the shift key for .1 seconds and pressing the . button really shouldn't have been to much of a chore, no?

romma
April 28, 2008, 03:27 PM
I haven't had a drink or mind altering drug in over 14 years, I only got involved with firearms 5 years ago.

So no!

Bazooka Joe71
April 28, 2008, 03:29 PM
An average size person 160 to 190 lbs that does two 1oz shots of 80 proof liquor in a half hour will blow a .08 to .09

LOL, wrong.

A 12 oz beer or 1.5 ounces of 80 proof liquor consumed by a 160 lb man will add .02 to their BAC and it also take 1 hour to get rid of .02. So you do the math.

RancidSumo
April 28, 2008, 03:31 PM
While I agree that having a drink or two doesn't effect your ability to carry, this thread is slipping to the low road. I am talking to you MDeViney.

MrPeter
April 28, 2008, 03:33 PM
"Having a few" can mean a couple of things. To some people it means getting a little tipsy. To some it means satisfying a thirst to wash down that brat with kraut!

My rule is that if I'm not good to drive I'm not good to carry. It's that simple.

bikerdoc
April 28, 2008, 03:54 PM
stopped drinking in 77

pbearperry
April 28, 2008, 04:28 PM
Packing heat sounds like a moron quote to me.Maybe I am wrong?

deanf
April 28, 2008, 04:38 PM
im out here in the serious boonies and we drink and run around with guns quite alot.

Oh. You must live up on 30th Ave.

Old Dog
April 28, 2008, 05:06 PM
Yep, I'm still pondering the phrase, "packs heat" myself ... Not the term I would use to describe what I do, and I'm sure many others here don't really want non-THR folks presuming this is how we see ourselves.

And gee whiz, what needed to be said was said already, in several variants, in several posts: know thyself.

If you're not comfortable being around people who may be in possession of firearms while imbibing, don't be around them ... if you can't trust yourself to stop after one or two beers, make sure you put your gun(s) away.

Why does this issue always bring out the worst in the extremists, the prohibitionists, the reformed drinkers/substance users?

Deanf noted:Quote:
im out here in the serious boonies and we drink and run around with guns quite alot.

Oh. You must live up on 30th Ave. Then I guess out here on the West Sound we're really on the frontier if Des Moines is "serious boonies."
In any event, that was also the poster who saidim not 21 and dont CCW.That's the sort of comment that concerns me even more when followed by the notation that "we drink and run around with guns alot [sic] ... that just sounds plain ignorant.

RTFM
April 28, 2008, 05:12 PM
Who the hell says Packs heat

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
April 28, 2008, 05:12 PM
My bad on the drinks I need to stop watching mythbusters. Cosmoline I looked at the chart its 3to4. Either way I choose not to take the chance.

SuperNaut
April 28, 2008, 05:13 PM
I prefer to exercise self-control and responsibility.

"At the very least, they should have put the brand of a hot iron on Hester Prynne's forehead. Madam Hester would have winced at that, I warrant me. But she, the naughty baggage, little will she care what they put upon the bodice of her gown! Why, look you, she may cover it with a brooch, or such like heathenish adornment, and so walk the streets as brave as ever!"

Stump Water
April 28, 2008, 05:13 PM
I don't drink so much that I stumble or have reduced judgment. Though I do both if I'm awoken at 3 AM, so I suppose I should avoid sleep.

What I was thinking. Most of us, awoken by a "bump" at 3AM, are more "impaired" than a drink or three would make us.

Vern Humphrey
April 28, 2008, 05:15 PM
If you're not comfortable being around people who may be in possession of firearms while imbibing, don't be around them
If you're not comfortable being around people who may be driving while imbibing, stay off the road.:rolleyes:

DrewH
April 28, 2008, 06:00 PM
I don't drink these days, so no. Never liked the taste of alcohol in anything, beer, wine, whatever, and half my family had serious problems with alcohol.

For those that drink responsibly and carry, my opinion is that that is fine.

That said, I have met more than one person in my life who was convinced that their drinking was perfectly responsible as they stumbled and slurred-including myself in retrospect :)

Be honest and know yourself if you choose to drink and carry.

Albatross
April 28, 2008, 06:29 PM
I'm still drinking double (triple?) for all of you that don't (which apparently is a lot of drinking).

Down the hatch, Jim Bean keeps me loaded while my 1911 stays loaded.

Biker, know thy self? You got to get so sloshed your forget yourself.

I love these threads.

Hkmp5sd
April 28, 2008, 06:38 PM
I don't carry while drinking.

Prince Yamato
April 28, 2008, 06:38 PM
I "pack heat" before I head out. And I drink and carry at the same time. Since I usually have to drive myself around Austin, I never drink to the point that I can't legally drive. So maybe a drink or two over a couple hours.

Alcohol is not illegal nor is it a sin, so I make no bones about enjoying it and I will continue to enjoy it, just like I enjoy my firearms... responsibly.

As I state every time these threads come up: Why is it that the Europeans have no problem with alcohol and guns mixing at the range, but somehow, over here, if we mix so much as ONE beer with dinner and are carrying, we're all of a sudden irresponsible and hellbound?

jlbraun
April 28, 2008, 06:45 PM
Hell, I've seen a Feurshutzen in Switzerland that had a bar right next to the 300m rifle line. And those guys shoot assault rifles. As far as I can tell, that place was a drinkin' and shootin' range since 1466, the first guns they shot there were matchlocks, and they haven't had a single accident.

Gun Slinger
April 28, 2008, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by SuperNaut:
"At the very least, they should have put the brand of a hot iron on Hester Prynne's forehead. Madam Hester would have winced at that, I warrant me. But she, the naughty baggage, little will she care what they put upon the bodice of her gown! Why, look you, she may cover it with a brooch, or such like heathenish adornment, and so walk the streets as brave as ever!"

wow. :rolleyes:..... A quote from "The Scarlet Letter".

Unable to speak for yourself? :confused:

Or is it that you are at a loss for an original thought?

Kurt S.
April 28, 2008, 06:58 PM
At my CHL renewal class a couple of weeks ago our instructor had a PowerPoint slide with Penal Code 46.035 section d displayed. On the slide in big red letters there were the word "No Legal Limit". He explained that this meant zero tolerance for alcohol when carrying, that you would not be given a blood test and that you would in all probability be arrested. He was pretty fierce about it so nobody really tried to push it with him.

The DPS website shows 9 convictions for Unlawful Carry by CHL Holder for 2003, 12 for 2004, and 14 for 2005. Since there are other unlawful carry by license holder offenses, I'd say this probably represents a more or less low conviction rate for any violation of unlawful carry seeing as how as of 2005 we had about 250,000 CHL holders in Texas.

I will take my chances, as I don't really go out that much, and when I do I might have a couple glasses of wine or a couple of drafts or rarely one mixed drink (not all at once). I'm with the folks here who believe that a few Shiners doesn't take away my right to self defense, and it sure doesn't take away the need.

highfive
April 28, 2008, 07:00 PM
I don't really drink much and if I do, I'll do it at the house. so I guess my vote is no...

mgregg85
April 28, 2008, 07:01 PM
The only time I carry after consuming any alcohol is around the house or at my friend's pizzeria when I happen to be working there to help out.

Though I don't allow myself to become drunk in any way shape or form while I am carrying. To that end, I keep a pistol case and lock in the trunk of my car to lock up the pistol if I decide to do any kind of heavy drinking, pursuant with MI laws.

BigGunsMoreFun
April 28, 2008, 07:44 PM
I always carry where it is legal to do so. I will still carry if I have had say one beer. Anymore than that and I don't carry.

Being a good law-abiding, free thinking and well educated citizen of the USA, I don't believe (as a matter of fact I am damn sure of this) that anyone has complete control of thierself or their thought processes after they have had a few. The whole idea behind having a few is to loosen up and not think straight for awhile. To relax, so to speak. The whole idea behind being pro-gun is to be a safe, law-abiding and responsible person when using firearms. That is not possible after you have had a few.

You might just shoot someone that you had no business shooting and in fact really did not want to shoot because your decision making process has been altered by the few you had. That could cost an innocent person their life and you a lifetime in the pokey drinking "raisin jack" when you want a few. :barf:

Taking the chance is not worth it to me. When I'm going out to have a few, I usually go with several friends. One of those friends is always the designated driver and also beings he or she is not having any, much less a few, he or she is also the designated carrier and protector of the rest of us for the night.

Guns and mind altering substances do not mix. Don't believe me? Ask some of the millions of people in jail doing life or sitting on death row whether they were sober when they commited their crime. :scrutiny:

Molon Labe,
Joe
:D

Geronimo45
April 28, 2008, 07:49 PM
Not a drinker, so no.

Cosmoline
April 28, 2008, 07:52 PM
Brats, mmm Who here carries while eating wurst of any kind?

Taking the chance is not worth it to me. When I'm going out to have a few, I usually go with several friends.

Again, your definition of "having a few" is radically different from my own. I literally mean having a few drinks while smoking my pipe and contemplating the nature of time and space, you mean going partying with people at a bar.

Lupinus
April 28, 2008, 08:00 PM
I don't have a permit so I don't carry outside of my home/property at the moment.

However, I will have a beer or two and still carry/have it near by.

I drink lightly, and don't allow myself to get intoxicated, in the past two years I've been "tipsy" one time and guns were no where in sight.

I think the distinction is setting and knowing your limits. If you know you get tipsy with one or two beers, it's a bad idea. If you know one or two drinks wont leave you impaired then by all means carry away. The other distinction comes from why are you drinking? Having a glass of wine with dinner and saying no to carry when you know you wont be impaired is IMO silly, but a personal choice that's fine. The other end that has a drink responsibly is a personal choice as well.

tntwatt
April 28, 2008, 08:03 PM
Rarely drink, never when carrying.
The problem is proving your judgment is sound when alcohol is involved. The "legal difficulties" some posters describe is the difference between murder and self defense. The difference between life in prison vs. going home that day. I don't consider it worth the risk. The legal system is already poised to jump on anyone using a firearm for self defense, why make it easier for them?

Templar223
April 28, 2008, 08:50 PM
Who packs heat after a few?

That's almost got a pejorative tone to it.

I hope nobody packs heat after a few... If so, they are a danger to us all, in more ways than one.

John

Biker
April 28, 2008, 08:57 PM
And if a citizen pulls your fat out of the fire with a ccw after having a couple of brews, would you feel the same, John?

Biker

JohnBT
April 28, 2008, 09:03 PM
Well here I sit, feet propped up after a 12-hour day at work. The doors are locked, I'm the only one in the house and I'm sipping a beer.

Wait a minute while I go lock up my pocket knife. Wouldn't want to hurt anybody.

Okay, I'm back.

But wait a minute. Suppose I want to walk out on the porch and smoke a cigarette. It is downtown Richmond after all and I might need my knife. Oh, but I've had most of a beer.

I just don't know what to do. :confused:

It wasn't all that long ago that drinking and driving was legal in Virginia and elsewhere. Really, you just had to be in control and under the limit. Still might be in 2 or 3 states. It was the last time I looked.

But now it's okay to talk on a cell phone and drive like a fool in most states.

"America where are you now? Don't you care about your sons and daughters?" - Steppenwolf

Time for a refill.

John

JohnBT
April 28, 2008, 09:07 PM
You know, even google doesn't turn up anything gun related on the first page using packs heat. It's either way too out of date or just too juvenile a term.

JT

Bazooka Joe71
April 28, 2008, 09:42 PM
You know, even google doesn't turn up anything gun related on the first page using packs heat. It's either way too out of date or just too juvenile a term.

You might be on to something.:p

obxned
April 28, 2008, 09:50 PM
Having a few gives no immunity form the BGs. Nor does it negate your right to 'life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness'.

jgo296
April 28, 2008, 09:54 PM
yeah no public carry when drinkin
pretty sure thats a felony in memphis

savetheclaypigeons
April 28, 2008, 09:55 PM
mmmmmmmm beer!

CHAINGUNMASSACRE
April 28, 2008, 09:58 PM
Hi, my first post here. I used to at times, but an idiotic ND after 2 glasses of wine cured that. And the mattress...........

fingerbanger
April 28, 2008, 10:20 PM
hi chain. first post, so ill be the first to welcome you. welcome to thr. i'm still new too. just thought id say hello. ive been know to enjoy the spirits but i dont get drunk when using firearms. notice i said drunk. one or two, ok two, i would say is too many. judge me if you will, but evey man should know his limits, and mine is two.

PTK
April 28, 2008, 10:27 PM
A "few", no. One or two over the course of more than an hour, yes. As I type this I'm nursing a Cuba Libre (which, by the way, is quite tasty)

Hypnogator
April 28, 2008, 10:29 PM
I'll have one, or two, maximum, when I'm carrying -- or driving.

I know that level doesn't significantly affect my judgment or motor skills.

Soybomb
April 28, 2008, 10:38 PM
.I have a problem that you do and must resort to the use of plasticware because I cannot control myself. If you find such measures necessary, I commend you on your restraint, but encourage you to get help since you find such measures necessary.
I'm glad you know your limits and act accordingly, we need more of that and less of the zero teolerance rules type thinking. I'm not sure what you're encouraging me to get help with though.

It wasn't all that long ago that drinking and driving was legal in Virginia and elsewhere. Really, you just had to be in control and under the limit. Still might be in 2 or 3 states. It was the last time I looked.
It seems to be telling that those days are gone by. Common sense would lead a person to think not driving drunk is as simple as not driving while drunk. We've applied this sad zero tolerance leave your brain at the door thinking though and its not legal for me to sip a beer on the drive home but perfectly legal for me to down it in a gulp before I leave the bar. I don't know why that is supposed to be safer.

Deanimator
April 28, 2008, 10:39 PM
Liquor and guns NEVER mix.

American_Pit_Bull
April 28, 2008, 10:43 PM
Posted by JohnBT:
You know, even google doesn't turn up anything gun related on the first page using packs heat. It's either way too out of date or just too juvenile a term.

JTLooks like the top three results... (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22pack+heat%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

Kind of Blued
April 28, 2008, 11:54 PM
While I agree that having a drink or two doesn't effect your ability to carry, this thread is slipping to the low road. I am talking to you MDeViney.

I agree witth you and was not willing to get involved in the more heated debate. That post was my attempt to hopefully give people a distracting laugh and lighten up. Sorry if it offended.

Flash!
April 29, 2008, 12:41 AM
moderation in all things....having a couple beers does not make a normal person too intoxicated to think and act properly.....a couple more beers do make the person not able to act responsibly.....thats when the no gun rule applies in my world.....

Bazooka Joe71
April 29, 2008, 12:44 AM
Quote:
Posted by JohnBT:
You know, even google doesn't turn up anything gun related on the first page using packs heat. It's either way too out of date or just too juvenile a term.

JT
Looks like the top three results...

Depending on what you look up, a google search is different for everyone.

gym
April 29, 2008, 12:53 AM
There is always the temptaion to react to leading questions, I think it's a hormonal thing, but I beg our members not to offer up personal information that may come back to kick you in the butt years from now. Anything that you post is there in cyberspace forever. And god forbid anyone ever gets jammed up, there is evidence of a mind set with this type of question, it isn't a harmless survey. If there comes a time that you need to save your life, or someone elses, attorneys and paralegals search through this kind of stuff, it's not like sitting on the porch shooting the breeze. But I must say that most answered the question admirablly

brighamr
April 29, 2008, 12:55 AM
I usually drink on airplanes or on my couch. Don't carry in either situation.

X_m1tanker
April 29, 2008, 01:07 AM
I don't drink and carry, or go shooting after consuming booze. My little brother was shot dead on accident by his buddy during a drunken show and tell of a new .40 cal pistol. His buddy was a tuff-guy type with 3 years of military too... the mag was out but a round was still in the chamber, it discharged, went through a pickup window, struck my bro in the chest, exiting out his back, hitting a lung and his heart. DOA.

hunterSthompson
April 29, 2008, 02:57 AM
not just no but hell no

they would have a field day man shot during robbery attempt police said it was self defense however the victim was intoxicated ( that could mean anything ) and that it was under review my GAWD they would have to toss you under the bus and the ANTI"S would be screaming bloody murder not just for your butt and gun but everyones gun and ccw permit guns and beer wine pot any thing dont go together ever!! ( in public ) what you do at home is your business just my .02

Cosmoline
April 29, 2008, 03:13 AM
a drunken show and tell
the victim was intoxicated

Once again for the record. This thread did not ask "would you go armed while DRUNK." A few drinks does not equal intoxication unless you don't really mean "a few drinks."

Every thread like this we end up arguing past each other. Please understand a drink does not equal a bender for many of us. For some I know it does, and they have no business with alcohol or firearms. They're drunks. We're not talking about drunks.

OMGWTFBBQ
April 29, 2008, 04:14 AM
Apparently some of you are under the impression that everyone losses all capacity to reason and restrain themselves when they have even a drop of alcohol :scrutiny:.

If you think so little of yourself, more power to you, but I'm pretty sure I can handle having a BAC of .02-.03 and safely carrying at the same time.

SuperNaut
April 29, 2008, 12:21 PM
At least these threads remind me that some are more impaired than others, alcohol notwithstanding.

MinnMooney
April 29, 2008, 12:40 PM
I pegged my vote to the "Yes, after a few" but I need to qualify the "few".
If I go into a bar with the intent of having several drinks, I leave the gat in the car but if I'm at a friend's or a picnic and only have one or two ("a few") during the course of a day or evening then the pistola stays where it is.

kd7nqb
April 29, 2008, 12:59 PM
Ok here is the deal, most likely I would not have a problem safely handling a firearm after a beer or two but I refuse to.

The biggest reason for this is that I am

White
5'10"
250lbs
Male
young
Carry a gun with a high cap magazine

This means that some hot shot DA already has plenty of ammo to tear me up if I ever have to use my gun in self defense, I dont need to give them one more.

Biker
April 29, 2008, 01:07 PM
Bars I used to go to, you're asked at the door if you have any weapons. If you say no, they offered to lend you one.

Biker

LiquidTension
April 29, 2008, 02:20 PM
I do most of my drinking at home. Whenever I'm home I have my 642 on me. So yeah, I carry while drinking. I don't see anything wrong with it. I also end up cleaning my guns while enjoying a frosty beverage.

Bazooka Joe71
April 29, 2008, 02:32 PM
I also end up cleaning my guns while enjoying a frosty beverage.

Who doesn't?:D

Seriously though, while I don't carry in public after I have been drinking, it is strictly for legal reasons...I could have a BAC of .4(probably happens more than it should:o) and still know the 4 rules, period.

Likewise while I am cleaning my guns...While I'm not usually wasted when I clean my guns, since that would mean I was shooting them while I was wasted, I could be slobbery drunk and still know to check the chamber 3-4 times before field stripping it.

The_Shootist
April 29, 2008, 02:41 PM
At a restaurant I have an ice tea (which causes my mom to look at me funny)

I've always wondered what would happened if I was a victim of a home invasion, comfortably seated on my couch with a few drinks in me, deciding to fire back. I mean not sloppy drunk, but maybe .03-.06.

blackcash88
April 29, 2008, 03:27 PM
So when I drink, I don't operate heavy machinery or power tools, I don't drive, I don't operate firearms--the most dangerous thing I allow myself to pick up is an Xbox controller or a Taco Bell Value Meal.

Kinda hard to pick up that value meal without driving after you've been drinking, eh? ;)

As for me, I hardly ever drink outside my home anymore. Occasionally, I'll have a beer or two, but never more than that. I can still drive, carry a firearm, etc just fine. And, being in a bar or restaurant "alcohol" area isn't illegal in my state and there's nothing in the laws about drinking and carrying so I just use common sense when out.

At home is a different story. I like to get schnockered from time to time and there's ALWAYS at least something in my pocket, usually my Kahr PM9, and a long gun within quick reach. Drunk or not, I just treat my firearm like I always do. It doesn't come out, I don't play with it and the only time it comes out of my pocket (in a proper holster) is at night when changing for bed.

gym
April 29, 2008, 04:34 PM
As long as you were in your own home, you could be as drunk as a skunk, and if it's a good shoot, nothing will happen to you.

blackcash88
April 29, 2008, 05:31 PM
I don't know about that. Many states have limits when carrying and they don't differentiate between being out and about or at home. I think "drunk as a skunk" would be well above that limit. If I were drunk and had ANY kind of a shooting in a state like that, I'd ditch the holster as fast as I could and claim I wasn't actually carrying at the time. At the time of the shooting, I still wasn't carrying as I was USING the gun. Lying? Sure, but sometimes you have to look out for #1 and CYA.

Even though I drink and carry at home, I think it will make the criminal/civil case MUCH harder on the shooter. Thankfully, CT doesn't have a "carry BAC limit" so I shouldn't have to worry about the scenario above. But, in this libtard 'effed up state, I'd most likely lose my permit and have all my guns confiscated. :fire:

blackcash88
April 29, 2008, 05:35 PM
deleted - double tap

Hkmp5sd
April 29, 2008, 05:35 PM
Several people have laughed, smirked, giggled, made comments about playing with their pocket knives while drunk, etc. All well and good.

If you live in Florida, you might want to be aware of a little law called 790.157 which gives you the legal limit for alcohol when using a firearm. It says that a blood alcohol level of 0.05% when taken with other evidence is enough to place you under arrest for using a firearm while impaired. A blood alcohol level of 0.10% gets you arrested all by itself. Use a gun while above 0.10% and you are busted for using a firearm while drunk, good self defense shooting or plinking in your back yard, doesn't matter.

Go ahead. Joke. Drink. Carry. Shoot.


http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=firearms+AND+alcohol+AND+blood&URL=CH0790/Sec157.HTM

blackcash88
April 29, 2008, 05:37 PM
+1. Exactly what I just posted.

Soybomb
April 29, 2008, 05:40 PM
Use a gun while above 0.10% and you are busted for being drunk, good self defense shooting or not.
And what is the outcome of the potential "clean shoot that would have been" when you didn't have a gun? You didn't face a jury but did you live to enjoy that?

Hkmp5sd
April 29, 2008, 05:52 PM
And what is the outcome of the potential "clean shoot that would have been" when you didn't have a gun? You didn't face a jury but did you live to enjoy that?

Not my problem. I drink in bars. I cannot carry in bars. I only drink to get drunk (ie to party). No guns while doing so. The other 99.9% of the time, I don't drink at all.

CNYCacher
April 29, 2008, 06:01 PM
I won't refuse to drink while carrying, but I don't usually drink a lot either.

Those of you who refuse to drink while carrying, do you also remove your car keys from your pocket before you drink?

Hkmp5sd
April 29, 2008, 06:04 PM
do you also remove your car keys from your pocket before you drink?


If I know I'm going to be drinking, I generally don't even take my car. :)

I did used to do things like drive drunk. After having a heart-to-heart talk with a Honolulu police officer at about 0430 one morning (bars in Hawaii closed at 4AM) while heading back to Pearl Harbor Naval Base, I changed my mind about that. He cut me some slack and I never drank and drove again.

TexasRifleman
April 29, 2008, 06:06 PM
Can't say that I've never spent an evening at a campfire drinking something with a rifle propped up against the chair or a .44 on my waist.

We had a deer lease in Brewster county Texas for many years, not a place I ever liked to be totally disarmed :)


That said, I never thought it would be a good idea to actually get the gun out and play with it, that's just stupid.

Driving the jeep around the place plastered was probably much more dangerous than having the gun on me.
All well inside the fence line of private property by the way ;)

Albatross
April 29, 2008, 06:16 PM
All this talk about BAC numbers and your state of drunkenness meaning something to the legal system. I just have to say that regardless of my state of intoxication (stone sober to blasted) I won't be blowing into any breathalyser for a cop unless I'm operating a motor vehicle in public.

Why incriminate yourself?

Furthermore, the BAC numbers are arbitrary compared to your state of drunkenness or how impaired you are. The limit has been repeatedly lower from what the medical world dictated (back in the 80's it was .1 to .15 BAC) as impaired via the neo-prohibitionists lobbyists known as MADD in an effort to discourage the consumption of any booze.

Blowing a .09 doesn't mean your actually impaired. It just means you're no longer legal to operate a motor vehicle.

blackcash88
April 29, 2008, 06:20 PM
I just have to say that regardless of my state of intoxication (stone sober to blasted) I won't be blowing into any breathalyser for a cop unless I'm operating a motor vehicle.

Um, if you're in a state that makes it illegal to carry/use a firearm above a certain BAC limit and the officers smell alcohol on you, you're as much obligated to submit to a test as if you were operating a motor vehicle. BOTH actions are illegal at that point if you're over the limit. Especially in the case of a shooting. They be all over your ass MUCH more than a simple DUI stop.

Hkmp5sd
April 29, 2008, 06:39 PM
All this talk about BAC numbers and your state of drunkenness meaning something to the legal system. I just have to say that regardless of my state of intoxication (stone sober to blasted) I won't be blowing into any breathalyser for a cop unless I'm operating a motor vehicle in public.


I like these types of comments.

790.155 Blood test for impairment or intoxication in cases of death or serious bodily injury; right to use reasonable force.--

(1)(a) Notwithstanding any recognized ability to refuse to submit to the tests provided in s. 790.153, if a law enforcement officer has probable cause to believe that a firearm used by a person under the influence of alcoholic beverages or controlled substances has caused the death or serious bodily injury of a human being, such person shall submit, upon the request of a law enforcement officer, to a test of his or her blood for the purpose of determining the alcoholic content thereof or the presence of controlled substances therein. The law enforcement officer may use reasonable force if necessary to require such person to submit to the administration of the blood test. The blood test shall be performed in a reasonable manner.


http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=firearms%20AND%20alcohol%20AND%20blood&URL=Ch0790/Sec155.HTM


Blowing a .09 doesn't mean your actually impaired. It just means you're no longer legal to operate a motor vehicle.

Blowing .09 while using a firearm in Florida can get you a trial to let a jury determine if you were impaired. All it takes is for the LEO to think you are impaired and arrest you. You get to convince the jury.

blackcash88
April 29, 2008, 06:52 PM
Egggzaktly...

Albatross
April 29, 2008, 07:05 PM
Great info if you live in Florida. Happily, there are a bunch of other states in the union.

The officer sure can think whatever he wants and can charge me with whatever he feels like, but I'm sure not going to help him make his case.

I'd rather be charged and found guilty separately of an obscure class 2 misdemeanor of refusing to take a breath test, than be found guilty of manslaughter (or whatever else) because I had to defend myself with some booze in me.

Bazooka Joe71
April 29, 2008, 07:14 PM
Those of you who refuse to drink while carrying, do you also remove your car keys from your pocket before you drink?

Umm, don't you mean do I remove my car from my pocket?

If you live in Florida, you might want to be aware of a little law called 790.157 which gives you the legal limit for alcohol when using a firearm. It says that a blood alcohol level of 0.05% when taken with other evidence is enough to place you under arrest for using a firearm while impaired. A blood alcohol level of 0.10% gets you arrested all by itself. Use a gun while above 0.10% and you are busted for using a firearm while drunk, good self defense shooting or plinking in your back yard, doesn't matter.


El T, if you are reading this can you tell me the laws for us Hoosiers?

That'd be some $*** if I was minding my own business, drinking from the comfort of my own home, some POS breaks in with a weapon,I protect my family and I go to prison.:eek:

Hkmp5sd
April 29, 2008, 07:31 PM
Let's be reasonable here. How many justifiable shootings can we mention that have been tainted because the good guy was a little tipsy? I know of about zero. It is just something to be aware about. The odds are you will never use your gun in self defense. It is even more remote that it will happen after you had a drink or two. Just don't take your gun down to the local watering hole and drink/shoot pool for six hours and get in a fight in the parking lot on the way out. Common sense.

gym
April 29, 2008, 11:30 PM
You guys are way off, those laws don't apply when you are in your own home. You don't even need a license to carry. You can walk around naked with 3 shoulder holsters on and a speedo. If someone breaks in and attempts to kill you and you defend yourself, it's self defense period. The law cannot dictate "yet" what you drink in your house, It's for arguments sake, I don't even have beer in my home, but this conversation is nonsense, there is no impairment issue when you are home, a mans home is his castle, and we all know what that Castle doctrine covers. Now if you shoot someone and there is a judgement question involved, you may have a court case, but don't count on it. This is the South, and booze and guns have been accomodating each other a long time. Besides if you were 3 sheets to the wind what exactlly are you supposed to do if someone breaks in to invade your home, and tries to shoot you, invite them for a cocktail?

Bazooka Joe71
April 30, 2008, 01:19 AM
You can walk around naked with 3 shoulder holsters on and a speedo.

Please dont...Your poor neighbors may accidentally see in a window.:)

dm1333
April 30, 2008, 07:19 AM
Blowing a .09 doesn't mean your actually impaired. It just means you're no longer legal to operate a motor vehicle.


If you believe this statement to be true try typing "progressive effects of alcohol" into Google and see what comes up. The science behind choosing a BAC of .08 for things like DUI or BUI is pretty darn sound.

209
April 30, 2008, 07:31 AM
If I go out and know I'm going to have a few, the gun stays home.

I also don't drink and drive.

If I'm home and having a few pops, I have yet to find a time when I thought it was a good idea to pull out a gun and play around with it.....

NGIB
April 30, 2008, 07:38 AM
IMHO alcohol + guns = BAD

I love my guns and I love a good single-malt scotch but I will never mix them...

OMGWTFBBQ
April 30, 2008, 07:48 AM
How many justifiable shootings can we mention that have been tainted because the good guy was a little tipsy?
Even if there were alot, the good guy still avoided taking a dirt nap.
Use a gun while above 0.10% and you are busted for being drunk, good self defense shooting or not.
No one's saying it's a good idea to get totally plastered while carrying in public(legal limit for driving is 0.08%), I'm talking about a few drinks over an hour or two where your BAC maybe hits 0.04%.

ojibweindian
April 30, 2008, 08:49 AM
I don't drink. Alcoholism runs somewhat rampant in my family, and I just don't want to expose myself to the possibility of becoming one, too.

JohnBT
April 30, 2008, 08:57 AM
"Several people have laughed, smirked, giggled, made comments about playing with their pocket knives while drunk, etc. All well and good. "

Hey, I looked for the tongue-in-cheek smiley, but finally gave up. Sorry.

I haven't been drunk in 20 years or more. And probably another 5 before that one.

John

jrfoxx
April 30, 2008, 09:09 AM
I'll have one, or two, maximum, when I'm carrying -- or driving.

I know that level doesn't significantly affect my judgment or motor skills.

Agreed. It will vary HEAVILY from person to person. It all boils down to what it takes to make you "impaired" in any meaningful way. For some, 2 beers in 2 hours may make them a little fuzzy, and thus, carrying or handling a loaded gun may not be a good idea. for others, the same amount, in the same time may do nothing but give a tiny bit of relaxation, like a cigarette, or just plopping in a Lazy-boy for an hour after a hard days work.All depnds on the individual.Some people will make mistakes, or do something plain stupid while dead sober, while others are just fine after a coule beers with dinner, or a "normal" mixed drink. As Soybomb put quite well, it all about each individual with how they feel about it, how it affects them, and who they are a personality-wise.Each person needs to know, understand, and ADHERE to thier own personal limits.

As has been said, a good shoot, is a good shot, just as a bad one, is a bad one, regardless if done out of stupidity, malice, or becasue alcohol clouded your judgement. Good, justified shoot is always a good shoot, no matter what, and a bad, unjustified one is always bad, regardless of what CAUSED you to do the wrong thing.

That said, I certainly dont advocate drinking and carrying if the law where you are says you cant.Bad ju-ju.In OR, we can carry in bars, and I have never seen anything in the law specific to alcohol use and carry, so here it would boil down to a judge/jury deciding if your actions were legit based on the actions themselves, stone sober, or after a few drinks.Alcohol would only come into play if it was reasonably beleived they alcohol affected you judgement, thus making you USE of a gun, not resonable, or you might get some type of 'endangerment" charge if its shown you were intoxicated enough while simply carrying (but without using or brandishing, etc) that your judgement was affected enough to pose a significant likelyhood of you hurting someone, same as it would be if they found you, say. using a backhoe you rented, on your property, but in an unsafe manner due to alcohol.

I RARELY ever go to resteraunts, and gave up the bar thing when I got married, just because its WAY cheaper to buy my beer from a store, and I enjoy having a few beers in the safety and comfort of my home, versus at a bar or resteraunt, with uncomfortable chairs, and lots of noisy, often annoying people, who are also paying way too much for drinks.

the key is: KNOW YOURSELF, AND YOUR LIMITS, AND HOW IT AFFECTS YOU, AND BE SMART.

AKCOP
April 30, 2008, 09:38 AM
We are a litigious nation, new laws will be based on the lowest common denominator. Public is very different from your home, different legal principles will apply. I have no doubt those in the lowest common denominator category will provide the fodder for future law makers to create new laws. Driving while intoxicated laws nationwide have moved toward a lower BAC based on the same lowest common denominator principle. I suspect we will see laws in the future making this discussion moot, it will simply be illegal to have any mind altering substance in your system if you carry, whether alcohol, prescription drugs, cough medicine or fruit cake.

Hkmp5sd
April 30, 2008, 03:47 PM
Hey, I looked for the tongue-in-cheek smiley, but finally gave up. Sorry.


I wasn't picking on you. I just remembered the pocket knife comment from somewhere. I haven't been drunk in at least 15 years myself.

Havegunjoe
April 30, 2008, 03:55 PM
I don't drink but anyone who does and carries a gun or drives a car is an IDIOT! I don't care what the law may say where you live, don't do it. If you were in a self-defense shooting do you think it would help your legal situation at all to have it known you had even 1 drink? It won't! A jury will take that into consideration and it will not help the verdict to go in your favor.

JohnBT
April 30, 2008, 04:01 PM
Idiot? Take it back or I'll sue. Sue, sue, sue. I need some free money so I can retire. :)

I need a beer and we can't drink at the office. I must be an idiot for working here. The 2nd floor restroom just cracked a pipe again and flooded the hall up here as well as the 2 restrooms and hall on the first floor. Again.

I think I'll just reheat some coffee and go outside and have a smoke.

John

blackcash88
April 30, 2008, 04:03 PM
I don't drink but anyone who does and carries a gun or drives a car is an IDIOT!

Ok there Mr. fluffy clouds and rose colored glasses. According to your diatribe, if I've had a few in MY OWN FRICKIN' HOME, I'll remember to politely ask that armed criminal that just forcibly broke into my home to lay down his arms so I can offer him tea and cookies over a game of tiddly winks. :rolleyes:

Fergy35
April 30, 2008, 04:03 PM
Just not a good idea IMHO.

blackcash88
April 30, 2008, 04:12 PM
Geez, so many of you advocate giving up doing something we like in the comfort of our own homes and let the criminals win by dictating what we can/can't do. So, are all of you NEVER going to drink in your home with firearms carried or close by and, if you do, NEVER defend yourself/family with a firearm? :rolleyes:

texas bulldog
April 30, 2008, 04:35 PM
i voted no, but then realized after reading the other posts that i, too, draw a distinction between being at home and being out and about.

at home, i have complete confidence in my ability to follow the four rules, period. sober or hammered, doesn't matter.

in public, i simply leave it behind or give it to my wife (who drinks maybe once a year) for safe-keeping. not because i'm afraid i'll do something stupid, but for the same reasons i have her drive us home in that situation. sure, i could get us home just fine...but i wouldn't want to explain my choice to someone in uniform.

rxraptor02
April 30, 2008, 04:46 PM
If you know what you can handle and you stay within the laws of your state that is your choice.

When I go out I am the taxi home and I carry. My g/f and friends all know I carry and I keep myself in check. Since I am the taxi I limit myself to be able to drive everyone home. No one has a problem with it. I am the guy who will have a beer or 3 and sit and watch others for entertainment. I worry more about getting a DUI.

At home I will drink more than when I am out. I still carry. I follow the 4 rules as i always do and I don't play with my gun. It stays holstered and all is well. Just because you are under the influnce or barely buzzed you still have the right to defend yourself.

When i travel to Michigan the gun stays at the place I am staying, I still drink a beer or 3. The only thing different is the state bans me from CC in bars.

strat81
April 30, 2008, 05:28 PM
Guns and motorcycles have the same rule: no booze AT ALL.

The corollary to this rule is no reloading after any drinking.

arthurcw
April 30, 2008, 06:01 PM
After a "drink or two", sure. I don't give up my right of self defense just because I had a glass of wine with dinner or a beer after.

If I'm going to be "Drinking" then no. Mainly because I would be more afraid of NOT HITTING what I aimed at rather than making a dumb decision of drawing the gun improperly.

I don't carry at all out if I'm going to have even a single drink. But that's because of Texas' poorly worded laws and not my inability to think after a beer.

If you loose the common sense needed to handle firearms when around alcohol, you have a bigger problem that needs looking into. If you are capable of having a beer with diner and stopping, then it's not an issue.

strat81
April 30, 2008, 09:01 PM
If you loose the common sense needed to handle firearms when around alcohol, you have a bigger problem that needs looking into. If you are capable of having a beer with diner and stopping, then it's not an issue.
I can't speak for everyone, but personally, part of the reason why it's a complete ban on booze while carrying is 1) It's illegal in my state for a CHP holder to drink and carry, regardless of amount 2) Alcohol slows reflexes and reduces inhibitions, and 3) It's just One More Thing the prosecutor can throw at you.

For point 1, this varies by state. My state also mentions other drugs. The exception are prescription meds. Some states impose the same limit as they do for DUI/DWI.

For point 2, I want any and every advantage possible over the bad guy. As for inhibitions, one of the motorcycle mags did a test a while ago about drinking and riding. They set up an autocross course in a parking lot and had riders go at it. They timed them sober and then after 1, 2, 3 beers (and so forth). Some of their times IMPROVED after a few drinks because the riders rode with more "courage." I.E., they took more risks. Will a beer or two make an average man into a raging nut? No. Will he be more likely to open his mouth and invite trouble rather than walking away? Possibly.

Point 3 just falls under paranoia and is part of the reason most folks don't carry Glocks with 33-rd magazines with +P+ handloads with acid-filled hollowpoints. Prosecutors can be vultures and juries can be retarded. The less that can go wrong, the better.

YMMV, of course! :)

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