"No Guns Allowed" signs in Colorado - legal?


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PTK
April 28, 2008, 01:08 PM
I was invited to a movie theater today for a film later tonight. Another friend turned down the invitation, saying that the theater has a "No Guns Allowed" sign on the front door. Does this sign legally prohibit (as in, state fines/prison time) carrying concealed firearms, or does it simply mean that if I were to carry there and be found out I simply leave to avoid a trespassing fine?

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isuace
April 28, 2008, 01:18 PM
I believe that it is the latter. There is no official (ie 30.06 or similar) signage that I am aware of.

Winchester 73
April 28, 2008, 01:36 PM
I believe that it is the latter. There is no official (ie 30.06 or similar) signage that I am aware of.

That is correct.Signs have no force of law in Colorado.

PTK
April 28, 2008, 01:48 PM
Great, that's what I thought, but I didn't want to be breaking the law. Even with a full size handgun, it's hard NOT to conceal in a dark movie theater in huge seats.

schloe
April 28, 2008, 02:17 PM
If the guy/gal who owns the theater doesn't want guns in his/her theater then why would you carry your gun into the theater?

Show the owner some respect and do as he requests on his property. If you want to carry concealed during the movie, then why not just go see the movie at another theater that has no problem with you carrying concealed?

There are a lot of weird threads like this on THR and I can't figure out why.

Zak Smith
April 28, 2008, 02:20 PM
Note that this isn't quite the case for open carry. Localities may outlaw open carry in defined areas but most have them posted. The only such signs I have ever seen in person were at the Pueblo airport (non-secure area).

PTK
April 28, 2008, 02:27 PM
If the guy who owns the theater doesn't want guns in his theater then why would you carry concealed at his theater?

Because I have no problem doing so if legal.


Show the owner some respect and do as he requests on his property. If you must carry concealed, then why not just go see the movie in another theater?

ALL of the theaters in this area (United Theaters) are posted as such. I've already made my opinions known to the owner regarding concealed carry and how it makes everyone safer, but in the mean time, why simply forgo movie theaters with friends?

I do not stop exercising my rights because someone else tells me not to, as long as I do not break any laws.

ants
April 28, 2008, 02:35 PM
The Constitution is your protection from Government. But the Second Amendment doesn't guarantee that you can carry a weapon on private property, if the property owner prohibits it. A private property owner can also prohibit certain printed material, the practice of religion, and other lawful acts on his/her own private property.

Sorry, but a responsible gun owner taking The High Road will honor private property.

PTK
April 28, 2008, 02:40 PM
Sounds great. No black or asians allowed in my home and business sound fair? No Jews, either.

What, it's MY property!

:rolleyes:

Anyway, thanks for the answers. Could a moderator please lock this thread before it gets worse?

Sniper X
April 28, 2008, 02:53 PM
Schloe, I'll try to answer your question.

First, criminals don't pay attention to those signs, and if there was an incident where you needed a firearm and weren't carrying because some schmoe who owned a theater didn't like guns, you'd wish you had ignored the sign. If it weren't against the law to carry inot a business establishment here in NM who had a no guns sign posted, you bet I would carry in there anyway because you can also bet the owner isn't going to protect me if some incident happens there.

Treo
April 28, 2008, 04:20 PM
Before this gets locked, I here the OP talking about his "rights", But you don't have a "right" to deny the owner the right to use his property as he sees fit.

Contact RMGO and let them know about the situation they will see to educating the owner

ovie theaters with friends?

I do not stop exercising my rights because someone else tells me not to, as long as I do not break any laws.

But you deny the owner of the theater the same right.

Justify it however you want you're a hypocrite.

PTK
April 28, 2008, 04:23 PM
treo

Do you go to any malls here in CO? All I've been to have been posted, as have many grocery stores, pharmacies, etc. Where would you have me shop?

Treo
April 28, 2008, 04:28 PM
Like I said contact RMGO they will call the owner and give him X ammount of time to change the sign then organize a boycott.

The only place I've seen that has a sign forbiding guns is my local bank. I even carry at school

PS you can shop where ever you choose.

PTK
April 28, 2008, 04:34 PM
And do you simply go unarmed into your bank, betting your life on their "security"?

Adirondack1
April 28, 2008, 04:45 PM
PTK
I back what you say 100%.
As soon as criminals honor those same signs, then I will too!

Let the sheep go unarmed, the sheepdogs will have to protect them also.

Treo
April 28, 2008, 04:51 PM
I don't carry at the bank, because number one I'm not sure of the legality. In Colorado ( legally) in order to have any legal teeth the business must post a sign conspicously at every door and make every one who enters the building pass through a metal detector. But I'm not sure if a bank counts as a "federal" building. generally I use the drive through.

Your not going to convince me dude, that property owner WORKED to get where he/she is at. they have the right to decide what is or isn't allowed on their property. I don't see this as any different that the owners right to disallow smoking on his/her property.

PS sorry but I don't let fear run my life if I can't carry a gun someplace I don't. my gun is A tool not THE ONLY tool

PTK
April 28, 2008, 04:57 PM
Your not going to convince me dude

I guess we're going to have to disagree... "dude".

;)

Treo
April 28, 2008, 04:58 PM
QUOTE: "Let the sheep go unarmed, the sheepdogs will have to protect them also."

I don't NEED your protection. I get nervous when the "sheep dog" set shows up, last time I checked my CHP was issued to me so that I could protect MYSELF & MY FAMILY. "sheepdogs" seem (IMO) like the type of people who buy those " LICENSED PERMIT HOLDER" badges.

Treo
April 28, 2008, 05:04 PM
QUOTE" I guess we're going to have to disagree... "dude"."

Or you could get RMGO involved.

Or you could write a tactful letter to the owner explaining why you won't be spending any money in his establisment.

Or you could start a thread here outlining the situation & asking how many people would agree not to use the theater & MAKE SURE the owner gets the link

Or you could.....

Adirondack1
April 28, 2008, 05:15 PM
So everyone that carries you're worried about?

You probably are one of the crowd that has a problem with someone owning "BLACK RIFLES" too right?

By the way guys, don't call each other "dude" because dude was orignally used in, The Home and Farm Manual, written by Jonathan Periam in 1883. In that work, Periam used the term dude several times to denote an ill-bred and ignorant, but ostentatious, man from the city.

PaladinX13
April 28, 2008, 05:18 PM
Personal attacks aside, no right is absolute but in this context, the right to private property legally (which is this forum, after all) trumps the right to carry. Private property provides the right to exclude and your status on it is only as an invitee. Such invitation comes with the right to exclude or constrain your behavior, to which you have the right to decline the invitation.

On one level this is like the right to exclude people from exercising "free speech" on your lawn with political signs, burning crosses, or satanic rituals (presuming they're invitees)... but the law makes a distinction between "quasi-public" and "private" areas. A theater is actually a classic example of a quasi-public area where the government has an interest in restricting the types of restrictions such owners apply... therefore "no Asians, no Women" are all likely to fall afoul. But why? Because race, gender, etc. are legally protected classes.

A gun-owner is NOT a legally protected class (in this sense, so far) and even if they did, the state is unlikely to say that right trumps a private property interest (even quasi) simply because the government has an interest in not seeing guns in some places.

All that said, at the same time, the private property owner's right does not make your status illegal, unless and until, they elect to exclude you from their premises. Which is to say, you are trespassing but in practical terms "the first one is free"... but if you get caught and come back, then you are committing trespass in a way that the can/will charge you with.

So... in a way, you're both wrong. PTK doesn't have to respect the private owner, but neither does he have a legal right to carry on private land and, in fact, is trespassing both technically and in spirit, though the law will likely only be enforced against him on a subsequent attempt (unless both the person and town are sticklers).

Put another way, is trespassing trespassing just because they know about it or because you do it? If you see private land with a "No Hunting!" sign and you poach away but are never caught, did you trespass? So if you carry into a theater... if they're real sticklers you can be prosecuted.

Treo
April 28, 2008, 05:35 PM
QUOTE : "So everyone that carries you're worried about?"

Not every one who carries buys the "sheep dog " myth. When I got my permit I got a letter W/ it that said " This permit is extended to you IN ORDER THAT YOU MAY DEFEND YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY" It didn't say anything about any duty to be a "sheepdog"

QUOTE: "You probably are one of the crowd that has a problem with someone owning "BLACK RIFLES" too right?"

Nope ( man you're really batting a thousand) I'm all about people being able to own what ever they can afford. I don't care for ARs but if you want one in your tactical golfcart go for it

QUOTE: "By the way guys, don't call each other "dude" because dude was orignally used in, The Home and Farm Manual, written by Jonathan Periam in 1883. In that work, Periam used the term dude several times to denote an ill-bred and ignorant, but ostentatious, man from the city."

I ' ll keep that in mind dude.

Poper
April 28, 2008, 05:48 PM
A couple questions:
1) Does the Law differentiate between "Corporate" property owners and "Individual" property owners? I.E. I am directly affected by the actions of my guests (smokers, drinkers, etc.) in my home, but is a Corporation really affected by a "guest's" (customer's) actions?

2) Are the inalienable rights enumerated in the constitution applicable to corporations though they are "individual" rights "of the People"? I.E. Are corporations "people"?

Poper

Winchester 73
April 28, 2008, 05:53 PM
PaladinX13,a very fine post,up to your usual standards.
You have the unique ability to clarify difficult problems and situations and do so in a constructive, non-abrasive,nonjudgmental manner.
Simply put,I'm jealous!:)

Czar
April 28, 2008, 06:01 PM
QUOTE" I guess we're going to have to disagree... "dude"."

Or you could get RMGO involved.

Or you could write a tactful letter to the owner explaining why you won't be spending any money in his establisment.

Or you could start a thread here outlining the situation & asking how many people would agree not to use the theater & MAKE SURE the owner gets the link

Or you could.....

Assuming you've done all of the above and have failed to achieve the desired results, then what?

As for not being a protected class, while gun owners are not a named protected class, there are several other factors you can not use to discriminate, such as method of livelihood, etc... IANAL, but there have been reasons other classes above and beyond Race, Gender, Religion, Age, National Origin, and Disability, have been used to determine an otherwise law-abiding protected class. One thing that comes to mind is a case (which I can't cite, but was described to me by a lawyer friend) where a kid got fired because he scalped tickets as a side business. He did it all on his own time and with personal resources, but his boss hated ticket scalpers. Turns out, you can't discriminate against someone because of method of income/profession especially if the actions are otherwise legal. Besides, national origin can be broadly interpreted because of the difference between a nation and a state. A state is a political entity (like United States) but a nation is a common bond (American, Coloradan, Westerner, Southerner, Alumni Assn, Engineer, et) and I bet you’re a member of a half-dozen “nations.” I bet an argument could be made that gun owners, since we have a “gun culture” –whatever that is-, qualify as a nation and a sharp lawyer with the right court could make that one fly.

Imagine that, not being discriminated against for having a gun because of national origin…

Would it fly? I have no clue, I’m an engineer, not a lawyer, but based on what I remember from a couple of business law courses, I think it’s a reasonable thought… Any real legal professionals have any thoughts? Am I way off base on this one?

Adirondack1
April 28, 2008, 06:01 PM
your state may differentiate, as to what type of CCW you have.

My particular state allows us a license to carry, the only provisions being we can't carry is certain enumerated places (like all of NYC, courthouses, and secure facilities).

I can carry anywhere else I please.

And by virtue of carrying, I protect not only myself, but all those around me.

Split hairs anyway you like, you don't have to like sheepdogs.. but if someone opens up on you or the person next to you, you'll be damned glad to have a CCW who has invested in training take out the badguy, or at least keep his head down to cover his escape.

As for your use of the word Dude, to address me, even though I have pointed out it is offensive, shows your character better than any further argument with you.

We have all we need to know about you in black and white.

If however, you decide to further insult myself or another member of the board.

You may want to think twice as I have reported this thread to the staff.

Art Eatman
April 28, 2008, 06:03 PM
The subject was whether or not certain signs have legal authority. As usual with severe ADD, it's closing time...

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