Ever Have an FFL Xerox Your ID?


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FFMedic
April 28, 2008, 05:29 PM
Bought a sweet new Marlin 1894C for $480 last weekend. I noticed though that in addittion to being pretty picky about the 4437 (had to fill out a second one because I put an "x" in the box for birthplace outside of USA) that he copied my ID and left a copy with the 4437. Maybe other places have done it before and I didn't notice? Seems odd.

FFMedic

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exar
April 28, 2008, 05:32 PM
Can't say I remember having my ID copied...ever. No dealer's here would want to waste time with it anyway's. People are busy and need their gun's and ammo down here. Why hold up the line?:D

CalebJns
April 28, 2008, 05:33 PM
I have tried to convience the guy I do most of my business through, to just have a pre-filled out form for me, as well as a copy of my ID, but he hasn't went along with it. But as for making a copy of you ID, I've never seen it done, and I have bought and sold a lot of guns....maybe He is just being "above board".

PirateRadio
April 28, 2008, 05:33 PM
Every time I've bought a gun they've copied my FOID and my driver's license.

TIMC
April 28, 2008, 05:56 PM
Seems kind of redunant. The same info is on the 4473.

ServiceSoon
April 28, 2008, 05:57 PM
Not that I am aware of. The dealers usually take my ID (drivers license) in the back room with the 4473 to call it in. Who knows what they do.

mp510
April 28, 2008, 05:59 PM
As an SOP, Dick's Sporting Goods photo-copies ID. So do some smaller gunshops.

JesseL
April 28, 2008, 06:01 PM
I don't know that I recall ever buying a firearm from an FFL and not having my ID photocopied.

Ron James
April 28, 2008, 06:06 PM
They have always photo copied my ID.

bogie
April 28, 2008, 06:09 PM
they only do it to me if I wear my Reynolds Aluminum baseball hat in...

45Badger
April 28, 2008, 06:13 PM
Y'all gotta move to America:neener:

rbernie
April 28, 2008, 06:16 PM
I have three (3) FFLs from whom I regularly purchase firearms. Two of the three photocopy my DL and/or CHL and the third does not. Guess which two have also had frequent and contentious ATF inspections in the past?

I figure that the third one will start photocopying the ID info as soon as THEY get jacked up on a ATF inspection.

Bazooka Joe71
April 28, 2008, 06:19 PM
If I am mailing a firearm the FFL receiving it asks for a copy of my ID, but no one has ever copied my ID. Granted, nowadays I go to the same guy every time and it takes $10.00 and about 30-35 minutes...5 minutes for the transfer and 25-30 minutes of BSing about firearms.:)

FFMedic
April 28, 2008, 06:21 PM
Well that makes me feel a bit better. I have bought from about 10 FFLs and they were the only ones to ever do it. Even Dunhams did not and they are super paranoid.

FFMedic

SouthpawShootr
April 28, 2008, 06:22 PM
It's never happened to me but I would understand if they did. One of the easiest ways to lose that FFL is failure to document required IDs. One slip is all the state police and ATF are looking for. It seems to me that, if they have photocopies on file, then that's proof positive that they did check for appropriate identification.

PTK
April 28, 2008, 06:24 PM
Yeah, it happens sometimes, depending on if they think it's "sketchy" (like an expired ID with a paper temporary), and I've also continually had Sportsman's Warehouse copy my ID because of my unusual name. Most bars and restaurants think it's a fake, too. :scrutiny:

Also, I always include a copy when shipping a firearm anyway.

JesseL
April 28, 2008, 06:24 PM
If they're looking at your ID and recording most of the information off of it anyway, making a photocopy doesn't seem to make much difference to me.

rbernie
April 28, 2008, 06:28 PM
If they're looking at your ID and recording most of the information off of it anyway, making a photocopy doesn't seem to make much difference to me.That's pretty much been my attitude.

TAB
April 28, 2008, 06:30 PM
every single time I buy a gun... nothing wrong with covering your butt.

Bobarino
April 28, 2008, 06:31 PM
i just bought a new gun at Cabela's in Lacey, WA a couple weeks ago. they take a copy of ID there. i don't really care. they have every other piece of info on me anyway from the 4473. with the way the ATF is lately, you can't blame them for a little CYA.

Bobby

tntwatt
April 28, 2008, 06:33 PM
My FFL always copies my DL and CCW permit and staples it to the 4473. Says it's so he can prove who filled out the form for the gun. A CYA thing for him in case he ever has someone accused of straw purchases.

orionengnr
April 28, 2008, 06:35 PM
Nope, never.

spwenger
April 28, 2008, 06:42 PM
...had a fairly large-vloume dealer at gun shows make copies of my ID (Driver License and CWP). As has been pointed out, those who choose to do that are just protecting themselves from the folks with a Bad Attitude Toward Freedom and Expression and in my state the CWP exempts me from the NICS check..

Locally, one FFL requires me to present an ID with my physical address for every transaction (my driver license only shows my PO box), while another says he doesn't need to see anything with my physical address because I'm making a declaration that the information I furnish is accurate, subjecting me to criminal charges if I lie.

mata777
April 28, 2008, 07:51 PM
here in Illinois its very common.

Ala Dan
April 28, 2008, 09:08 PM
We always enclosed a copy of the perspective buyer's 4473 in @ form~! ;) :D

Gator
April 28, 2008, 09:18 PM
Every time I buy a gun.

GRIZ22
April 28, 2008, 10:37 PM
I have tried to convience the guy I do most of my business through, to just have a pre-filled out form for me, as well as a copy of my ID, but he hasn't went along with it.

Form has to be filled out and ID presented at time of purchase.

I've had FFLs routinely copy my ID. My address on my DL and FID card have to match. Copying it is the only way the dealer can CYA as someine else mentioned. I'd do the same if I was an FFL.

.cheese.
April 28, 2008, 10:38 PM
before I had a CCW, yes they copies my DL.

After the CCW, now they always copy my CCW.

loop
April 29, 2008, 05:53 AM
I have shares of Xerox stock. Dad was on of th original seven guys who go the company off the ground.

Please, please, please, send off you xerox copies.

I make about 1-10th of a cent for every document.

SEND MORE!!!!

Flame Red
April 29, 2008, 08:49 AM
My FFL does so many transactions for me that he keeps several Xerox's of mine on top of his bound book!

AirForceShooter
April 29, 2008, 09:08 AM
Had one here in Fla. try.
The sale wasn't completed.

AFS

ImARugerFan
April 29, 2008, 09:08 AM
Always have when I've purchased.

ServiceSoon
April 29, 2008, 01:08 PM
Quote:If they're looking at your ID and recording most of the information off of it anyway, making a photocopy doesn't seem to make much difference to me.

That's pretty much been my attitude.Makes a difference to me. Now my personal information is more likely and easier to steal.

JesseL
April 29, 2008, 01:23 PM
Makes a difference to me. Now my personal information is more likely and easier to steal.

How? They already get your name, address, license number, DOB, height, weight, eye color, location of birth, etc. on the 4473. They look at at your drivers license.

What else does the photocopy give them that they weren't getting anyway? It's just their proof that they saw your ID and it appeared legitimate.

I always assume that anything someone can lay eyes on is something they could photograph. You don't know who's got eidetic memory or a hidden camera. If you don't want them having the info on your ID, don't let them see it at all.

TAB
April 29, 2008, 01:26 PM
How? They already get your name, address, license number, DOB, height, weight, eye color, location of birth, etc. on the 4473. They look at at you drivers license.

What else does the photocopy give them that they weren't getting anyway? It's just their proof that they saw your ID and it appeared legitimate.

I always assume that anything someone can lay eyes on is something they could photograph. You don't know who's got eidetic memory or a hidden camera. If you don't want them having the info on your ID, don't let them see it at all

exactly how I feel.

scott22
April 29, 2008, 01:30 PM
My FFL here in ********** always copies my drivers license... where are you located?

FFMedic
April 29, 2008, 02:46 PM
Ohio

FFMedic

IllHunter
April 29, 2008, 03:23 PM
Department of Redundancy Department, since we must show current FOID why would Cabelas want to take a DL copy with the foid copy? To ease the BATFe in the event of a straw sale. I had the local police come to investigate an application that was 4473 denied. They were pleased to have the license , as if the FOID info were different. It's not, they even use the same DL photo on the foids now.I believe it might have been a carryover from their other stores, where the foid doesnt exist. Large corporations are reluctant to change and as their Illinois location was the first FFL in Illinois to keep an electronic bound book, the added paper may have been a pacifier for the Illionis State police and ATF. When I questioned the requirement, they told me it was Cabelas policy and if the customer had no drivers license, they must have another state (gov) issued photo id. Not just foid. I guess they make up the rules as they go along. As long as "their rights" aren't violated.:what:

Harley Quinn
April 29, 2008, 03:39 PM
California always does it, now in some cities they do it if you buy ammo. Sacramento, I just bought some 9mm today, gave a picture ID and finger print. Sort of unusual for a few rounds. It was enacted a year ago, they started it the first part of this year after some complaints slowed it down.

:uhoh:

TAB
April 29, 2008, 04:14 PM
California always does it, now in some cities they do it if you buy ammo. Sacramento, I just bought some 9mm today, gave a picture ID and finger print. Sort of unusual for a few rounds. It was enacted a year ago, they started it the first part of this year after some complaints slowed it down.



what store was this at?

I live in sacramento.( well just out side)

damien
April 29, 2008, 04:33 PM
Illinois:

Megasports: Yes, FOID also.
GAT Guns: No

Can't remember the others, so maybe

Aguila Blanca
April 29, 2008, 04:46 PM
I don't know that I recall ever buying a firearm from an FFL and not having my ID photocopied.
+1

Copying my driver's license and carry permit has been S.O.P. every time I've bought a firearm, and that includes at least 5 different shops and 6 or 7 FFLs.

Harley Quinn
April 29, 2008, 08:34 PM
what store was this at?

I live in sacramento.( well just out side)

River City Guns on Fruitridge and 24th. They have a sale on 9mm ammo "Blazer" $7.99 a box of 50.

:)

RobertFBurnett
April 29, 2008, 08:50 PM
Some of you all are spoiled! ;)

Photocopy of ID, 2nd Proof of residency (usually car registration), and Firearms safety card (which explained all this was necessary, so you walk in with it all ready.) get attached to DROS form every single time. Plus a right thumbprint on the back for good measure.

LA County is also right thumbprint, and a purchase log for ammo sales.

Ya gota do what ya gotta do (I mean me jumping the hoops to get what I want, not you all have to submit. :)).

RFB

ServiceSoon
April 29, 2008, 09:48 PM
How? They already get your name, address, license number, DOB, height, weight, eye color, location of birth, etc. on the 4473. They look at at your drivers license.

What else does the photocopy give them that they weren't getting anyway? It's just their proof that they saw your ID and it appeared legitimate.

I always assume that anything someone can lay eyes on is something they could photograph. You don't know who's got eidetic memory or a hidden camera. If you don't want them having the info on your ID, don't let them see it at all.It would be easier because it is all nice an neat on a small 2" X 3" photo copied card. Some drivers licenses have social security numbers on them.

The ATF has all of the licensed FFL shops worked up so much that it appears the majority of the FFL's are making up their own laws/procedures. Soon they won't be willing to sell you a gun without a finger print and retina scan. Please see the post titled "Paranoid...a rant" by ZeSpectre for a funny story that mirros the reasoning for copying my ID.

JesseL
April 29, 2008, 10:40 PM
It would be easier because it is all nice an neat on a small 2" X 3" photo copied card. Some drivers licenses have social security numbers on them.


Sure, but if you're concerned about the FFL doing something nefarious with your driver's license, what makes you so sure they're not getting a copy of it anyway? There are hundreds of subtle ways it could be done. For example, they could have a hidden camera with a telephoto lens focused on a specific spot on the counter to snap a picture of your license.

If you're really worried, half-measures like letting them handle and examine your license but not photocopy it are as silly as the TSA not allowing more than 3oz of fluid in a single container but allowing you as many 3oz containers as you like :confused:.

The only options that make sense are to not worry to much about it and let them make their copies, or only buy firearms for cash in paperwork free private purchases.

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