First aid kits


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abrink
April 28, 2008, 07:03 PM
OK. well not exactly related to guns but i figured that we carry guns for the same reason someone might have a first aid kit (protecting ourselves and possibly other humans around us.) The only difference is the first aid kit would be used after the incident not before not during. My question is do you have any first aid kits you reccomend? They would be for general use but it definatly would not be a bad thing if they were able to treat a gun shot wound (considering you carry a firearm everyday you might want to know how to treat yourself or others after a situation where you're forced to use deadly force.)

Also from anyone out there involved somehow in the medical profession what's the best thing you could do in case of a gun shot wound before the EMT's or police arrive.

Thanks:D

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FFMedic
April 28, 2008, 07:26 PM
Here is a thread that might be helpful.

I am a paramedic, the treatment for a GSW varies hugely depending on where you are hit and such. It's hard to give advice for general treatment other than try to keep air going in and out of the patient and keep them full of blood. :)

FFMedic

MikeJackmin
April 28, 2008, 07:35 PM
As a general rule, trauma survival is closely correlated to how quickly the patient is brought to the hospital. Call 911 first! Then do first aid.

Your first aid kit should contain the items you need to perform the procedures that you know how to do. Once you take a first aid course and learn things like bleeding control, shock treatment and so on, then you will know what tools you'll need to do it in the field.

Call your local Red Cross, they can hook you up with a pretty good advanced first aid course. It's good stuff to know.

Lupinus
April 28, 2008, 07:46 PM
first, get training. A basic first aid class will do wonders. Next, be prepared for the things you know how to do. You will be much more help providing case that you are capable of preforming then attempting to do stuff you have no real clue how to do and wasting time.

Also things like a GSW vary greatly based on location as has been said. A wound to the leg is going be handled very differently from a wound to the lung for instance. The best thing is to get good basic all around training. If you know how to control sever bleeding the basics are the same whether someone is shot or is sliced. Blood loss, shock, internal bleeding....the body doesn't really care why it's happening, but that it is happening.

Treo
April 28, 2008, 07:59 PM
QUOTE:"so from anyone out there involved somehow in the medical profession what's the best thing you could do in case of a gun shot wound before the EMT's or police arrive."

Former EMT /Former Combat LifeSaver/ Current Medical Assistant student.

REI Actually makes a first aid kit geared specifically for hunters , as does Sports Authority, it is GSW specific.

1. GET EMS ROLLING ASAP.
1B. Get yourself some first aid training

2. Stop the bleeding

3. Watch the airway

4. Do what you can to imobilize the pnt.

5. Treat for shock

GET EMS ROLLING ASAP

PTK
April 28, 2008, 08:15 PM
This (http://www.buyemp.com/product/11004.html) with one of these (http://www.buyemp.com/product/11229674.html) can treat most serious wounds, but step #1 is to get someone on the phone to 911.

Sir Aardvark
April 29, 2008, 01:48 AM
A,B,C's

Airway
Breathing
Circulation

So... depends on where they are shot - about the best you can hope for is to control the bleeding and hope for a speedy arrival by the EMS.

Also check out the hemostatic agents that they sell online now, such as CELOX, HemCon, and QuikClot.



I just love giving medical advice on the Internet, it's even more fun than giving legal advice!

Dahwg
April 29, 2008, 02:20 AM
Agreed. As a former medic who is married to an ER nurse, I can't think of any "kits" I'd buy off the shelf. I always put my own together. As a general rule you will only know what you need by knowing what to do. IOW, as others on here have said, take a class, then take notes and buy the stuff you use in class. A good set of trauma sheers is important to have too- if nothing else, it's good for entertaining guests by cutting pennies in half.

So far as where to store all your goodies, a duffle bag type tackle "box" is always a good bet. Hope this helps

Stay Safe.

Librarian
April 29, 2008, 02:38 AM
Interesting article here. (http://www.policeone.com/pc_print.asp?vid=1362663)
Gunshot wounds

In order to better understand the damage inflicted to the body by bullets, it is important to understand the different components of wounding. Bullets cause damage from both direct and indirect mechanisms. The direct mechanisms include the cutting from the original bullet and fragments passing through flesh. This is the main cause of damage from low velocity bullets. Indirect mechanisms include stretch and displacement of flesh from the bullet cavitation effect. This is mainly seen with medium to high velocity weapons. There are 3 main components of wounding with gunshot wounds.

1. Penetration: Penetration refers to the flesh which is destroyed or disrupted by the passing projectile. A bullet fired at the abdomen must penetrate approximately 7 inches in order to reach the major blood vessels to cause significantly bleeding and sometimes instantaneous
death.

2. Cavitation is the second component and consists of a “shock-wave” like effect. Temporary cavitation can be up to 10 times the diameter of a medium to high velocity bullet. The permanent cavitation is the hole left by the bullet itself. Damage will depend on the elasticity of the organ or
tissue. Muscle, blood vessels, lung and bowel are relatively elastic and therefore have a less permanent cavitation effect. Liver and brain on the other hand are relatively inelastic and cavitation becomes permanent resulting in significant damage.

3. Fragmentation is the last component. Projectile fragments or secondary fragments such as bone are sent off and create their own paths through flesh. This is a major cause of tissue disruption with high velocity bullets. Never underestimate the size and trajectory of a gunshot wound. Gunshot wounds, with the exception of shotgun wounds, appear relatively small and unimpressive. But beware.

The internal damage from the above mechanisms is quite significant. In addition, never assume a bullet travels in a straight line. We have seen hundreds of cases of the most amazing trajectories. For example, I have seen a patient shot in the leg with the bullet sitting in his chest. Don’t necessarily focus on the wound itself.

Management of gunshot wounds

The basic treatment of gunshot wounds depends on the area(s) struck. Generally, gunshot wounds should be covered by a dry dressing or a clear transparent dressing if available. Manual pressure should be applied if the wound is bleeding. Once at a definitive care center, we will clean the wound, possible debride some edges, and change the dressings daily. A gunshot is never sutured closed as the infection rate is very high. Bullets drag clothing into the wound and along the bullet track. Since clothing is of course not sterile, the wound is prone to infection if closed. Open wounds almost never get infected. We will now go over how to handle gunshot wounds from head-to-toe.

Winchester 73
April 29, 2008, 02:44 AM
As another former medic,I concurr on all these excellent suggestion's.
This kit from the Red Cross is a good addition in the home or in the vehicle:

http://www.redcrossstore.org/Shopper/Product.aspx?UniqueItemId=37&Page=1&StartAtPage=1&SId=276189&LocationId=0

Richbaker
April 29, 2008, 02:49 AM
These guys have everything you need, and you'll be helping gun guys, instead of tree-hugging jerks like REI!
http://www.cavalryarms.com/medical/medical.html

Eric F
April 29, 2008, 03:07 AM
Medical kits are not cheap these days I might suggest looking at galls for a general purpose kit. I am a former paramedic current emt/fire fighter for a DOD fire department. Gun shot wounds are a serious thing but easy to treat number 1 in almost all cases is direct pressure. I suggest taking an emt class through the local comunity colledge or joining the local rescue squad to get the class. Its an easy enough class. a chest wound is far more serious but dont skimp out on a kit with a bunch of bandaids get a quality kit

BacSi67
April 29, 2008, 10:11 AM
I've heard that tampons are good for plugging wounds and hepling clotting. True? Never tried them in VN when I was a medic.
BacSi

Treo
April 29, 2008, 10:21 AM
QUOTE:"I've heard that tampons are good for plugging wounds and hepling clotting. True?"

I always carried a couple of pads in my aid bag, if nothing else they are a good field expedient pressure dressing.

QUOTE: "and you'll be helping gun guys, instead of tree-hugging jerks like REI"

I thought the whole point of this exercise was to help a gun guy, the one that's laying there bleeding infront of you.

bnkrazy
April 29, 2008, 11:11 AM
Your first aid kit should contain the items you need to perform the procedures that you know how to do.

I disagree with this to an extent. Obviously you don't need to have every item available, but I do have kits with things that I wouldn't personally know how to use. I have them in case there is someone else around that would know how to use it.

strat81
April 29, 2008, 12:07 PM
I disagree with this to an extent. Obviously you don't need to have every item available, but I do have kits with things that I wouldn't personally know how to use. I have them in case there is someone else around that would know how to use it.
Good point. If something goes bad at a gun range, you often have a wide array of people around, some of home may be current or former military, LEO, or emergency services. If they know how to use some weird dressing or bandage, it might save someone's life.

For Cavalry Arms Trauma Kits, check www.thetacticalmedic.com.

paramedic70002
April 29, 2008, 10:43 PM
OK I'll go where yall fear to tread.

If you have been shot, and the situation allows, lie down on your left side and relax. This is best if you vomit, so as not to occlude your airway. 'Also if you pass out you're least likely to occlude your own airway with your tongue. If you're shot, your chances of vomiting go up. Relaxing slows your heart rate, which slows how fast your blood is leaving the vessels, and also keeps you from passing out either through falling blood pressure or the physiological effects of your adrenalin dump.

GSWs to extremities may encompass any or all of the following:

1. Minor to life threatening bleeding, leading to trauma arrest (death)
2. Bone fracture(s) limiting your ability to function.
3. Nerve damage limiting your ability to function.
4. Pain

GSWs to the trunk...

1. Minor to life threatening bleeding.
2. Bone fracture(s) limiting your ability to function.
3. Spinal cord damage limiting your ability to function.
4. Pain
5. Interruption of vital organ function.
6. Sepsis.
7. Respiratory distress/failure
8. Trauma arrest (death)
9. Pain

GSW to the head/neck...

1. Neurological failure (unconsciousness/death)
2. Blindness
3. Airway failure (traumatized tissue in airway)
4. Bone fracture(s)

I'm sure someone will point out that I've missed something, thats OK.

Lets deal with what we can...

Bleeding below the elbow or knee is usually not life threatening, and thus does not require a tourniquet.

To control bleeding:

1. Direct pressure.... this means your hand on the wound
2. Elevate (if possible) above the heart
3. Pressure point... these are places where the artery runs close to the skin and over a bone
4. Pressure dressing... a dressing tied snugly over the wound
5. Tourniquet... these are rarely used, and even more rarely applied correctly... military has a good one hand tourniquet

Penetrating wounds to the trunk will benefit from an occlusive dressing... petroleum jelly on gauze... plastic... cellophane from a cigarette pack
This is to seal the chest in case there is damage to a lung. Lungs move, do not discount abdominal or shoulder injuries. Be aware that a simple pneumothorax can develop into a tension pneumothorax. Occasionally "burp" the occlusive dressing, especially if respiratory distress worsens.

Abdominal organs can bleed quite briskly. Your only signs will be bruising and swelling. Pressure/pressure dressings can help, even if there is no external bleeding.

So what do you want in your first aid kit? And how much room do you have?

If this is an on body kit, I'd carry Celox-A. This is an emerging product. A powder in a syringe. You stick the syringe in the wound, then push the plunger as you withdraw. The powder will stop bleeding quickly (not instantly). Hold pressure for a couple minutes. Regular Celox comes in a pouch, less expensive ($15 vs. $50). A large Kotex pad, maybe a roll of gauze.

Go here to see some other ideas:
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=101

The H&H pocket trauma kit is a bit hardcore, with a 14 gauge needle for chest decompression, but if you KNOW HOW TO DO IT, it's nice to have...

If you think you have a life threatening injury, forget EMS, get to a hospital PDQ unless the hospital is further away than EMS is to you. Remember that EMS WILL NOT come on scene until LEOs advise them the scene is secure!

OK that's it in a cracked nutshell. Probably remember something else after I post...

doc2rn
April 30, 2008, 12:19 AM
Call 911
Whip out victims wallet if bullets are to the torso and place credit cards/ IDs over bullet holes. On back tape down on 4 sides on front 3 sides in case you need to *burp* the cavity to prevent lung colapse. To burp simply slide finger under card to break seal.
Lie them on the affected side to keep the unaffected lung as primary and keep blood from drowning the good lung.
Apply tourniquette to extremities with heavy blood loss, put a t and actual time applied on fore head with lipstick or similar substance.
Elevate feet to keep the blood in the thoracic cavity, and cover with a blanket.

W.E.G.
April 30, 2008, 12:32 AM
You can never have too much tape in a first aid kit.

I don't think anybody has mentioned the Israeli Pressure Dressing yet.
http://galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=FA199
Its da bomb.

Learn how to clear an airway. If they can't move air you got a problem.

VARifleman
April 30, 2008, 12:56 AM
You can get those in the med kits from Cavalry.

mindwip
April 30, 2008, 02:58 AM
My answer is to build your own, as most kits out there are just band aids. If you have the money buy a good kit and buy the knowledge to use it(classes). Even with a good kit your still going to add/remove stuff.

I just finished my emt course so take my advise for what its worth...


Its better to have no kit and know what to do then a $500 kit and not know anything. There are many things that can be over come by just knowing what to do and doing it with out a fancy kit.

BruceRDucer
April 30, 2008, 10:41 AM
Feminine Napkins make excellent wound compresses, used with adhesive tape. They're bigger, and much cheaper.

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