I have 2 hrs. to bid! Can an Illinois FFL recieve my shipment from a non-FFL?


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The Swede
April 28, 2008, 08:50 PM
Do most FFL's in IL accept guns from a person who sold me a gun but doesn't have a FFL?

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Jeff White
April 28, 2008, 09:11 PM
Are you talking about across state lines?

Jeff

The Swede
April 28, 2008, 09:15 PM
yes I am.

Gator
April 28, 2008, 09:17 PM
Its up to the individual FFL, you will have to ask them.

bearmgc
April 28, 2008, 09:20 PM
Most FFLs will accept from an individual, but it is their perogative NOT to accept from an individual. You have to ask the FFL.

tntwatt
April 28, 2008, 09:24 PM
Based shearly on past and not any written laws......the gun has to be shipped to an FFL, don't think it has to come from an FFL. The receiving FFL takes all the responsibilty since he is the one doing your background check. Don't know this for sure, better check the BATFE site, and make sure your state allows it also. It may be too late for this auction. You should have this kind of thing clear with your FFL before you bid.

Jeff White
April 28, 2008, 09:32 PM
If it's a long gun from a contiguous state (Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin, Kentucky or Missouri you can do a face to face.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1657&ChapAct=430%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B65%2F&ChapterID=39&ChapterName=PUBLIC+SAFETY&ActName=Firearm+Owners+Identification+Card+Act%2E
(430 ILCS 65/3a) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑3a)
Sec. 3a. (a) Any resident of Illinois who has obtained a firearm owner's identification card pursuant to this Act and who is not otherwise prohibited from obtaining, possessing or using a firearm may purchase or obtain a rifle or shotgun or ammunition for a rifle or shotgun in Iowa, Missouri, Indiana, Wisconsin or Kentucky.
(b) Any resident of Iowa, Missouri, Indiana, Wisconsin or Kentucky or a non‑resident with a valid non‑resident hunting license, who is 18 years of age or older and who is not prohibited by the laws of Illinois, the state of his domicile, or the United States from obtaining, possessing or using a firearm, may purchase or obtain a rifle, shotgun or ammunition for a rifle or shotgun in Illinois.
(b‑5) Any non‑resident who is participating in a sanctioned competitive shooting event, who is 18 years of age or older and who is not prohibited by the laws of Illinois, the state of his or her domicile, or the United States from obtaining, possessing, or using a firearm, may purchase or obtain a shotgun or shotgun ammunition in Illinois for the purpose of participating in that event. A person may purchase or obtain a shotgun or shotgun ammunition under this subsection only at the site where the sanctioned competitive shooting event is being held.
(c) Any transaction under this Section is subject to the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (18 U.S.C. 922 (b)(3)).
(Source: P.A. 94‑353, eff. 7‑29‑05.)

If I were you I'd check federal law if it's not coming from one of those states.

Jeff

Gator
April 28, 2008, 09:38 PM
Sec. 3a. (a) Any resident of Illinois who has obtained a firearm owner's identification card pursuant to this Act and who is not otherwise prohibited from obtaining, possessing or using a firearm may purchase or obtain a rifle or shotgun or ammunition for a rifle or shotgun in Iowa, Missouri, Indiana, Wisconsin or Kentucky.

Are you sure about that Jeff? I interpret that passage to mean that Illinois residents are limited to buying long guns in those states; but they still must be purchased from an FFL dealer as per federal law.

Jeff White
April 28, 2008, 09:49 PM
Gator,
As much as Blagojevich and Daley would like to control every aspect of our lives everywhere we go, Illinois law has no effect in another state. If a face to face transfer is legal by the laws of the other state and by federal law, Illinois has no say.

Jeff

The Swede
April 28, 2008, 10:10 PM
Jeff, so I can face to face in any state that allows ftf?

Gator
April 28, 2008, 10:16 PM
I'd like to believe that. :)

Doesn't federal law prohibit the transfer of any firearm between private citizens, unless it is between two residents of the same state? Citizens are allowed, by federal law, to buy long guns outside their state of residence, from licensed dealers, as long as the laws of both states are followed. Illinois further restricts this by only allowing their citizens to acquire long guns from neighboring states. At least that is my understanding.....I'd love to be wrong.

Jeff White
April 28, 2008, 10:25 PM
Someone who is more familiar with the federal law then I am will have to tell you. I was sure that FOPA allowed transfer of long guns between residents of contiguous states, and the Illinois law was amended to permit that. But I can't find anything like that on the BATFE site.

This is from the BATFE FAQ:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b3
B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the personís own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

I'm confused.

Jeff

The Swede
April 28, 2008, 10:26 PM
gator, I'll stick with that right now to be safe. How is a non-lawyer supposed to know all this. I'm sure even if you follow the law to a T there is still some loop hole where you can get screwed.

PTK
April 28, 2008, 10:26 PM
Jeff White

As far as I am aware, ANY gun changing possession that also crosses state lines MUST go through an FFL. FTF transactions may only be carried out if both people are residents of the same state and are both in that state.

Jeff White
April 28, 2008, 11:28 PM
My confusion is that according to the BATFE FAQ, anyone can buy a long gun from an FFL dealer in any state. However when my son was stationed at Ft Hood, he had to show his orders to prove he was a resident of Texas for more then 90 days in order to buy a shotgun. This was in 2007.

I remember when the Illinois law was amended to allow purchases in contiguous states. I'll have to do some more research.

Jeff

McCall911
April 28, 2008, 11:35 PM
My dealer doesn't accept from non-FFL's and for good reason: What if the gun was stolen or wanted in connection with a felony? My dealer explained that he'd like to stay in business and not get shut down with the Feds for selling hot merchandise. And I agreed with him, after much whining. :D (Not really...)


But probably every FFL holder is different on that particular policy. Best thing to do is call them.

Autolycus
April 29, 2008, 12:45 AM
I believe they do. I bought a used Sig P228 from an out of state dealer and I had no issues. As others have said, I believe it to be at the discretion of the FFL. Some will accept guns from out of state sellers who are not FFL holders while others require that guns be shipped from an FFL.

Try Gunbroker for a list of FFLs. I am sure many of them will accept a gun fron a non-FFL holder.

WayneConrad
April 29, 2008, 09:50 AM
My dealer doesn't accept from non-FFL's and for good reason: What if the gun was stolen or wanted in connection with a felony? My dealer explained that he'd like to stay in business and not get shut down with the Feds for selling hot merchandise. And I agreed with him, after much whining. (Not really...)
I'm just a dumb city boy, but I can't for the life of me figure out how having the gun go through another dealer's bound book first would make a hot gun magically be not hot. Nor can I see how receiving the gun from an FFL would give your dealer any special indemnity if the gun were hot. If it's hot, it's hot, whether it came from a dealer or an individual.

I think your dealer did a Jedi mind trick on you.

Soybomb
April 29, 2008, 10:28 AM
As an additional word of caution, if your ffl does accept a gun from a private party be sure they include a copy of their DL for the receivers bound book. Some people new to selling across state lines dont do that and it will delay your transfer.

NavyLCDR
April 29, 2008, 04:26 PM
18 USC 922 (that's United States Code, Federal Law) makes it illegal for a person to buy any gun from an unlicensed person in another staate and for an unlicensed person to transfer any gun to an unlicensed person from another state. The transfer must go through an FFL in the receiving person's state of residence. The only exception is guns that are bequested to another person in the estate of a person who dies.

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

Mainsail
April 29, 2008, 04:54 PM
Well, it would really be a stroke of luck if your FFL dealer just happened by this thread and answered. It might be faster though if you just called him directly.

ilbob
April 30, 2008, 10:41 AM
Someone who is more familiar with the federal law then I am will have to tell you. I was sure that FOPA allowed transfer of long guns between residents of contiguous states, and the Illinois law was amended to permit that. But I can't find anything like that on the BATFE site.
I suspect the passage you cited in Illinois law is a leftover that no longer has much meaning. The GCA68 allowed residents of a state to purchase long guns from an adjacent state only if their state law specifically permitted it.

IIRC, FOPA removed the prohibition altogether against residents of one state buying long guns in another state.

NavyLCDR
April 30, 2008, 10:50 AM
IIRC, FOPA removed the prohibition altogether against residents of one state buying long guns in another state.

You do mean from licensed dealers in other states, I assume?

18 USC 922 still prohibits persons from buying long guns in other states from unlicensed persons.

ilbob
May 2, 2008, 12:29 PM
IIRC, FOPA removed the prohibition altogether against residents of one state buying long guns in another state.
You do mean from licensed dealers in other states, I assume?

18 USC 922 still prohibits persons from buying long guns in other states from unlicensed persons.

Yes. You are correct.

brickeyee
May 3, 2008, 11:30 AM
You can purchase a long gun in ANY state FROM AN FFL if the laws of both your home state AND the selling state are followed (including background checks if required by EITHER state).

You can ONLY take possession of a HANDGUN from another sate FROM AN FFL in YOUR state of residence.

Military are allowed to purchase handguns in EITHER their state of residence or the state where their PERMANENT orders send them (NO TDY orders allowed).

NavyLCDR
May 5, 2008, 10:43 AM
Military are allowed to purchase handguns in EITHER their state of residence or the state where their PERMANENT orders send them (NO TDY orders allowed).

A military member's state of residence is considered the state that he/she is ordered to. They can only buy handguns in their "home of record" state, IE: where their home driver's license is from, if they maintain a physical residence and address in that home state and spend at least part of the year actually residing there. Another exception is if they are stationed in one state and maintain a residence in a nearby state and commute to work, then they can buy handguns in either the state where their home is, or the state where they are ordered to.

Just because a military member has a driver's license from their home state does not mean they can legally buy handguns in that state. If someone can post a Federal code that does allow that, I would really like to see it.

Very Respectfully,
Navy LT

outerlimit
May 5, 2008, 11:08 AM
My dealer doesn't accept from non-FFL's and for good reason: What if the gun was stolen or wanted in connection with a felony? My dealer explained that he'd like to stay in business and not get shut down with the Feds for selling hot merchandise. And I agreed with him, after much whining. (Not really...)

Wow, they have a different reason that makes no sense every time.

Since some local shops shut down, the one local gunshop won't do transfers unless it comes from another FFL. And then they still want $40 and their B.S. you get for not buying the gun from them. Like I'm gonna sit around and wait until they get the gun in stock that I want which also happens to be out of production for 15 years. :rolleyes:

I hate most FFL's, they are not about your rights, they are about $$$ and telling you what you can and can't have.

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