Got my Brady Campaign letter today....


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Bendutro
April 28, 2008, 11:17 PM
Now what's the best use of the pre-paid envelope?

I'm thinking about loading it up with washers. < 16 oz is allowed by the USPS on 1st class PP right?

:)

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Librarian
April 28, 2008, 11:37 PM
Now what's the best use of the pre-paid envelope?

I'm thinking about loading it up with washers. < 16 oz is allowed by the USPS on 1st class PP right?
Yes, but better would be the latest NRA solicitation info.

Actual Brady folk are unlikely to see either; but it might be funny for the firm that opens mail for them.

Jaws48
April 28, 2008, 11:58 PM
I sure hate getting this stuff in my mail box...hopefully the mail man will not hold it against me!

:barf:

claytonfaulkner
April 29, 2008, 12:32 AM
fill it with meal worms or something

ExSoldier
April 29, 2008, 12:53 AM
I'm a firm believer in getting the oppositions SNAIL MAIL. First off, I like to get the intel on how they intend to defeat us in the long term. That gives me a focus on a counter strategy. But I also find the fact that they're spending on postage a very satisfying experience. Bleed 'em. Bleed 'em DRY.

Marcus84
April 29, 2008, 12:55 AM
Sorry to hijack the thread but this is something I've always wondered. Can you get into legal trouble by filling prepaid envelopes with stuff and sending it back? Was thinking of filling my credit card offers with coupon advertisements and sending it to them.

evan price
April 29, 2008, 01:36 AM
Nope, as long as what you put in the envelope is legal to be mailed, and not something that might hurt osmeone who opens it (such as feces or razor blades or something- that's right out.)

Just tape the envelope securely to a large brick. Or, a stack of ValPak coupons, or handbills for a porn store, or whatever your heart desires.

As long as it is under 70 pounds, first class will cover it.

Librarian
April 29, 2008, 03:07 AM
As long as it is under 70 pounds, first class will cover it.Old (very old) wive's tale.

5.0 Additional Physical Standards for Priority Mail
5.1 Physical Standards of Mailpieces

The maximum weight is 70 pounds. The combined length and girth of a piece (the length of its longest side plus the distance around its thickest part) may not exceed 108 inches. Lower size and weight standards apply for some APO and FPO mail subject to 703.2.0, Overseas Military Mail, and 703.4.0, Mail Sent by U.S. Armed Forces, and for Department of State mail subject to 703.3.0.

6.0 Additional Physical Standards for First-Class Mail
6.1 Maximum Weight and Size

Matter at First-Class Mail rates cannot exceed 13 ounces. First-Class Mail weighing more than 13 ounces is Priority Mail (123, Rates and Eligibility). The combined length and girth of a piece (the length of its longest side plus the distance around its thickest part) may not exceed 108 inches. Lower size or weight standards apply to mail claimed at certain rates or addressed to some APOs and FPOs subject to 703.2.0 and 703.4.0 and for Department of State mail subject to 703.3.0.

However:

3.3 Weight Standards for First-Class Mail Automation Letters and Cards

Maximum weight for First-Class Mail automation letters is 3.5 ounces (0.2188 pound). See 3.13.4 for pieces heavier than 3 ounces.

3.14 Enclosed Reply Cards and Envelopes
3.14.1 Basic Standard

All letter-size reply cards and envelopes (business reply mail (BRM), courtesy reply mail (CRM), and meter reply mail (MRM)) provided as enclosures in automation First-Class Mail, Periodicals, and Standard Mail and addressed for return to a domestic delivery address must meet the applicable standards for automation-compatible mail in 3.0. The mailer's signature on the postage statement certifies that this standard, and the standards listed below, have been met when the corresponding mail is presented to the USPS:

a. Each reply piece must include the appropriate facing identification mark (FIM) under 1.2, Physical Standards for Cards Claimed at Card Rates.

b. Each BRM piece must bear the correct BRM ZIP+4 barcode; each MRM and CRM piece must bear the correct barcode for the delivery address, subject to 202.5.0, Barcode Placement.

c. Each BRM piece must meet any applicable standard under 507.9.0; each MRM piece must meet any applicable standard under 604.4.0, Postage Meters and PC Postage Products ("Postage Evidencing Systems"); and each CRM piece as defined in 3.14.2 must meet the standards of this section.

USPS Domestic Mail Manual (http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/101.htm#wp1002718) and DMM-Physical Standards (http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/201.htm#wp1042622)

Dksimon
April 29, 2008, 03:18 AM
whenever i get the credit card crap that comes with the prepaid envelope i always tear everything up and send it back in the prepaid envelope. Apparently they dont get the picture because i keep getting thier junk

Guitargod1985
April 29, 2008, 05:32 AM
Put one each of these in the envelope and mail it to them: 55 gr, 123 gr, and 150 gr FMJs. :D

ETA: Oh, and enclose a nice little note about how the dreadful gun show loophole made you do it.

An order form for CMP would be a nice touch, too.

DWARREN123
April 29, 2008, 05:38 AM
Mail them NRA info!:D

coelacanth
April 29, 2008, 06:55 AM
mailer that has no other connection with the Brady organization. Therefore, regardless how satisfying it might be to stuff the envelope with something undesirable - rest assured Sara Brady will never see it. A contract mailer knows exactly what is supposed to be in that envelope and exactly how much it should weigh and business reply envelopes that do not fit those criteria are rejected and destroyed without ever being opened. If you wish to cost the organization that sent you the mailer the return postage fee ( which is about all you can reasonably expect ) then return the envelope with the proper piece of paper in it and something that is approximately the size of a personal check.

hso
April 29, 2008, 07:05 AM
Some suggestions given so far on how to cost the anti gun nuts the most in return postage appear to be incorrect while some are dangerous and illegal and could get the gunny in a lot of trouble.

If we have a USPS expert who can verify that additional weight represents additional cost in return postage, please let us know.

For now, you should follow coelacanth's advice and return the envelope with the paperwork they expect and a check sized piece of paper.

Therefore, regardless how satisfying it might be to stuff the envelope with something undesirable - rest assured Sara Brady will never see it. A contract mailer knows exactly what is supposed to be in that envelope and exactly how much it should weigh and business reply envelopes that do not fit those criteria are rejected and destroyed without ever being opened. If you wish to cost the organization that sent you the mailer the return postage fee ( which is about all you can reasonably expect ) then return the envelope with the proper piece of paper in it and something that is approximately the size of a personal check.

Carl N. Brown
April 29, 2008, 07:42 AM
Reason 11: Assault weapons are back on the market--get one today at your local gun show.--S B

When our economic stimulus check arrives, I'll use that argument
on my wife: Sarah Brady recommended I do it.

CBS220
April 29, 2008, 08:07 AM
Did anyone else get the email from them about their "thousands" of demonstrators... with pictures of a very sparse crowd in Washington?

Linda
April 29, 2008, 08:13 AM
Make sure you're an equal oppurtunity return mailer, and return anti gunners AARP their crap mail as well.:neener:

tinygnat219
April 29, 2008, 08:16 AM
oooh, NRA brochures... and massage coupons would be perfect.

novaDAK
April 29, 2008, 03:16 PM
I'd send them one of these...

http://thenationsgunshow.com/NScoupon3.gif

berettaprofessor
April 29, 2008, 04:30 PM
Got mine today....placed one of the NRA membership stickers in the envelope and sent it back :)

foghornl
April 29, 2008, 04:43 PM
I sent the AARP crap back to Brady..

Quite a few years back, somehow or another I ended up on the "Greenpeace" mailing list. A couple of nice "Hey, knock it off...not interested." replies in their pre-paid envelopes didn't do it.

So, next time, I taped their pre-paid mailer to a cinder block, with this note..."Throw this at the next Tuna Boat you see...."

End of mailings.

BattleChimp Potemkin
April 29, 2008, 05:21 PM
FoghornL: You owe me a keyboard! Sounds like something I would do! :D

hecate
April 29, 2008, 07:06 PM
I used to work for a company that processed mass mailings. The clients kept postage money on account at the PO to cover their incoming business reply envelopes and cards.

Returns that had, shall we say, contents other than intended were common, for some clients more than others. All were paid for out of the client's money before the mail trucks delivered them to us.

No action was ever taken against senders for the contents of the envelopes. The folks opening them did, however, keep a collection of the most . . . interesting . . . examples.

Blackbeard
April 29, 2008, 07:17 PM
Tape it to a brick and drop it in the nearest mailbox.

mekender
April 29, 2008, 09:25 PM
send em a fully expanded spent hollow point bullet and a note asking them if they could find out which one of the 25,000 gun deaths it came from...

Inspector3711
April 29, 2008, 10:45 PM
Send them a clipping of a car wreck and tell them they need to work on a problem that kills twice as many. Oh, and smear pine tar all over it!

longtooth
April 29, 2008, 10:45 PM
Sorry to hijack the thread but this is something I've always wondered. Can you get into legal trouble by filling prepaid envelopes with stuff and sending it back? Was thinking of filling my credit card offers with coupon advertisements and sending it to them.

It is perfectly legal to send them back all of the mail they sent you. You can also answer it. Use 2 more sheets of paper write big & tell them thanks for the offer but dont need it. Dont sign anything.

They will stop sending you stuff. I have done it.

Would be glad to do it for Sarah too.:neener:

caltek1911
April 30, 2008, 03:48 AM
I've stuffed all the junk flyers into a lot of the prepaid envelopes that I get and it's been a couple of months since I've received any. All of the stuff that comes with the envelope goes right back with that weeks' junk flyers. I'll try a brick next time.

McCall911
April 30, 2008, 06:41 AM
Now what's the best use of the pre-paid envelope?

I'm thinking about loading it up with washers. < 16 oz is allowed by the USPS on 1st class PP right?


There are some dairy cattle not far from where I live. I'm sure I could carefully pack said envelope with 15 ounces of bull$#!t.

Rachen
April 30, 2008, 08:30 PM
send em a fully expanded spent hollow point bullet and a note asking them if they could find out which one of the 25,000 gun deaths it came from...


NO! Not a good one at all. They will most likely mistake it as a THREAT, and then they will use it as evidence saying how we gunnies "really are sickos."

DON'T DO IT, HEAR ME? DON'T DO IT AT ALL.

Send them an invitation to the NRA Exposition at Louisville. That will really piss em' off.

Rachen
April 30, 2008, 08:31 PM
There are some dairy cattle not far from where I live. I'm sure I could carefully pack said envelope with 15 ounces of bull$#!t.

EVEN BETTER!:D

Megistopoda
May 1, 2008, 10:42 AM
I got a green sheet in mine that I was supposed to sign and return...some nonsensical message to my congress-people.

So I wrote a note on the back of it, that went something like:

"Since I am in the militia and it's necessary to the security of our nation, my state, and community, I think I know what I will spend some of my tax return on (inserted cut-out picture of an AK rifle). I will also send some to the NRA, who are fighting FOR my freedoms instead of against them.

Your efforts to ban sells more guns than you will ever know."

mike101
May 1, 2008, 10:56 AM
"Did anyone else get the email from them about their "thousands" of demonstrators... with pictures of a very sparse crowd in Washington?"

I did. That was pretty funny. In St. Paul, MN (saw the article here on THR), they couldn't even get 32 people to lie on the ground for them. They had to settle for 31. :D

They did manage to get 32 people to lie in front of the Supreme Court for 3 minutes, claiming that's how long it takes to buy a gun at an "unregulated gunshow", what ever the hell that is. Oh that's right. It's another lie. I forgot.

archigos
May 1, 2008, 11:10 AM
I just signed up for their e-alerts. It never can hurt to know what they're up to.
I feel dirty...

Citroen
May 1, 2008, 11:46 AM
Organizations usually have contract companies handle their direct mail. The odds are fair that the person opening the mail (and expecting to find a check) is NOT an anti or a nutcase.

Take the high road - copy the armed citizen page from American Rifleman or print one of the many posts concerning how guns save lives.

I keep a stack of such articles handy and use them with all of the "postage paid" reply envelopes from AARP or others like them. I even enclose one with my checks when paying my bills.

You never know who will be opening the mail or what impact you might have and it costs you nothing but the effort.

John
Charlotte, NC

blkbrd666
May 1, 2008, 12:54 PM
Just make sure you send the prepaid envelope back to insure it costs them money. If you have to include something, just write a note that says, "$$$ Cha-Ching $$$" or "Thank you for supporting the USPS".

mike101
May 1, 2008, 01:01 PM
Don't. In their emails, they show more of their true colors. They also beg for money a lot. They use events like VA Tech as fundraisers. Go to their website. www.bradycampaign.org. On the home page they have the 'Candle Picture', directly above "Click Here To Donate Now!" There are usually a few "Click Here's" in their emails. Lots of ammunition to use against them.

The downside is that now, you are counted as one of their "150, 000 online supporters". :D

It's OK. The "Freedom Dirt" washes off.

DirksterG30
May 1, 2008, 01:07 PM
I just signed up for their e-alerts. It never can hurt to know what they're up to.
I feel dirty...

There's only one cure for that - go to the range and shoot a couple hundred rounds. It works for me. :D

hso
May 1, 2008, 03:02 PM
Ok, here's what the USPS just told me. Mass mailings using a permit number do have to pay the return postage on oversize mail in the envelope, unless the customer sets an upper limit on the postage to be paid. If the antis return envelope weighs more than it should or bulges too much they can automatically reject it without paying any postage on it.

So, the question is how much is enough to put in the envelope to cost them extra and how much is too much so that it hits their limit and rejects. We can reasonably assume that they've got good enough mailing consultants that they've set an upper bound (taping the envelope to a brick won't work). Stuffing a roll of toilet paper in it to make it bulge and cost more may not work either. Anyone know how to find out what the limits are for these folks so we can exploit that info?

Librarian
May 1, 2008, 08:58 PM
It's almost certainly that 3.5 oz limit unless the mailer has specified something different.

If you are sending out solicitations, you expect back

an envelope
a card with info
maybe a check


But the 'tape the card to a brick' won't work, because that's not what the card/envelope is coded for - it isn't supposed to be a merchandise return label or any other kind of package label. USPS is supposed to discard those.

And since the actual client of the mailings company will never see the contents - they'll have their checks deposited and their info card data keyed in and sent electronically - there's not a lot of value to sending much else to them.

BullpupBen
May 1, 2008, 09:02 PM
There are some dairy cattle not far from where I live. I'm sure I could carefully pack said envelope with 15 ounces of bull$#!t.

I fail to see the point, they'll just think you sent back the original letter..

hso
May 2, 2008, 08:15 AM
Now that we actually have information that tells us there are limits on what we can reasonably do we can discuss what will actually cost them the most and still get through the screening system.

So, no more fantasy, let's get down to work.

If the size of the envelope is outside normal parameters, but the weight is within their screening limits, it might get through to them with additional postage fees incurred. Try folding the materials in such a way they make the envelope bulkier. Put a toilet roll tube inside and tape the envelope shut. That way it will approximate the weight while changing the dimensions. That may get through and will incur size penalties.

If the weight of the envelope is just above 3.5 oz. it may get through and cost them a bit more.

Thousands of off size or off weight envelopes add to their costs.

The problem is we won't know if we're "getting through" to them unless we can find someone sympathetic to our position in the USPS or the office that receives them.

woof
May 2, 2008, 09:13 AM
This reminds me of my favorite way to handle telemarketers. Our phone is my wife's business phone so we can't sign up for "do not call." We get lots of calls asking to speak to the owner. I say Oh yeah, she'll be right with you. Then leave them on hold and after awhile pick up and say - she's coming hold on. If they hold long enough I say - how does it feel to have YOUR time wasted - and hang up. I'm sure it has cut the number of calls we get. The only way to discourage them is to waste their time which costs them money.

Librarian
May 2, 2008, 06:45 PM
Let's consider what the budget for the fund raising campaign might be.

Here's a reasonable article (http://ezinearticles.com/?Response-Rates-to-Expect-in-Direct-M
ail-Fundraising-with-Acquisition-and-Renewal-Appeal-Letters&id=465481):
What kind of response rates do your direct mail fundraising letters generate?

That’s the most common question I’m asked by potential clients. And it’s a good question, since non-profit organizations need the highest response rates they can get in today’s competitive environment. Direct mail is an expensive way to raise funds if your response rates are low and your average gift is small.

So what’s an acceptable response rate? That depends on the kind of mailing we’re talking about.

Acquisition mailings (designed to acquire new donors) typically generate low response rates. An acceptable response rate with an acquisition mailing is somewhere between 0.5 percent and 2.5 percent. A response rate of only half of one percent might not sound adequate to you, but it’s acceptable if your costs are low or your average gift is high.

Remember that generating a high response rate in an acquisition mailing is more important than receiving a high average gift, since the whole point of an acquisition mailing is to acquire donors. The higher your response rate, the more donors you acquire. And the more donors you acquire, the more donors you can appeal to in coming months, leading to higher revenue over time.

Renewal mailings (designed to obtain gifts from existing donors) typically generate higher response rates. An acceptable response rate with a renewal mailing is somewhere between 5 percent and 35 percent. Response rates for renewal mailings are higher than rates for acquisition mailings because the recipients already know you, trust you and have given to you before.
Suppose they expect that 2.5% response rate, and budget for about that many returned pieces of mail.

They're already spending first class postage, plus somewhere between 1 cent and 8 cents per piece to send the original solicitation, at 40 times their expected return cost.

BRM rates are 38 cents for the first ounce, 17 cents for the second, plus that 1 to 8 cents.

So let's guess a fraction of an ounce, for 38 cents postage, plus 1 cent per letter fee, and it costs them a nickel to produce every one of 10,000 pieces in a mailing. 44 cents * 10K = $4400. They expect 2.5% return -- 250, for another 110 dollars. Suppose they budget that $4610 plus $390 for contingencies (about 8.5%). We would need 889 extra responses to run them over their budget by $1 - exclusive of any actual donations they receive to offset costs. (In this guesstimate, 250 $20 donations is break-even.)

Just send the card or envelope back - that's the maximum cost for them relative to the minimum effort for us. It doesn't violate any laws, doesn't require finding innocuous materials to include, doesn't need any plotting or pre-planning, and doesn't waste your time.

ETA: Of course, if this is entertainment for you, we have to add in that benefit to the process of making these campaigns more expensive for the solicitors. Far be it from me to discourage anyone's hobby!

Yellowfin
May 5, 2008, 07:59 PM
Tape it to a cinder block and send it back. I think that costs them something like $50-70.

Librarian
May 5, 2008, 09:09 PM
Ah, Yellowfin, read up thread - USPS will discard those: using the business reply mail as a label is an abuse, and they don't have to deliver it, and the BRM licensee can refuse it.

hso
May 5, 2008, 09:37 PM
<Sigh>

Deacon Blues
May 5, 2008, 11:34 PM
I'm not sure if I want to open this can of worms, but is this really High Road? Believe me, I'm usually the first person to jump on something like this, but I started thinking about it a little harder than usual this time. The Brady Campaign is in the dictionary under petty. Nothing is beneath them in their quest to lay the blame for all of society's woes on firearms. And do you know what? If I reverse the situation, and imagine a scenario where the BC is trying to get their supporters to bankrupt the NRA through the mail, it doesn't stretch my imagination at all. It just seems to fit them. Now, as much as I like the idea of costing them their hard-mooched cash, I do not want to engage in any activity that makes me or any of my freedom-loving brothers and sisters resemble the other camp.

Mind you, I am not bashing or accusing anyone here of wrongdoing; I'm just trying to put some serious thought towards this event before granting it moral neutrality.

hso
May 6, 2008, 12:34 AM
I understand the sentiment.

Out best bet is to give them what they want (returned envelopes), but more of them than they budgeted for.

I fear the problem is that when dealing with organizations like Brady their large contributors can easily absorb the additional cost.

Dravur
May 28, 2008, 06:23 PM
but do it anyway, nickel and dime George Soros to death.

I hereby promise to send back any mailings I get from AARP, the Brady Bunch or any other hounds begging for cash.... except the NRA of course.

jackdanson
May 30, 2008, 01:22 AM
Anyone else here against signing up for mailing/emails from these dolts? It gives them numbers to use in their BS campaign.. we've got 1 million people supporting us!!! Not knowing that half of them are highroaders?

Brass Rain
May 30, 2008, 04:11 AM
Hope a letter comes in like that for me. I'd probably just put an NRA advertisement in it or print a page of some real statistics on gun violence and send it back. Whether it gets to Sarah Brady or not it has to get to someone and maybe it will convert somebody.

But with all the gun magazines already being sent to the house I don't know why she'd have me on any mailing list except the one of her enemies. :rolleyes:

JackW
May 30, 2008, 05:00 AM
That's it, that's how I'll get rid of them. (I just love it when I order a SD card and it comes in a 6 inch deep 12"x12" box packed with them to protect a 1" square)

Light enough that it won't get rejected due to weight, but should add enough bulk.

Or, I really think the best idea is just sending back the envelope empty. Guaranteed to get through without being rejected due to excess weight or bulk.

jrpbullrider
June 2, 2008, 04:00 AM
I have and will do more if they ever send more to me is 1 sheet of paper in it with NRA FOREVER on it in bold caps.
I will not put my name on any of there list E-mail or snail mail
John

mec
June 2, 2008, 10:21 AM
mailer that has no other connection with the Brady organization

Very likely. A few decades ago, Teddy Kennedy was using his senate frankling privaleges to send out solicitations from one of the handgun ban organizations. He drew a censure for that one.

Shadowangel
June 2, 2008, 11:19 AM
I signed up on the Brady site for their mailings. I'll be pleased to send them some of my NRA mailings on their dime.

B.D. Turner
June 2, 2008, 02:29 PM
Tape the pre paid to a brick and mail it back.

Yellowfin
June 2, 2008, 03:52 PM
Personally I'm hoping they'll say or do something that crosses the line to where we can outrightly sue them out of all their money for defamation/slander/libel. There's plenty out there. We need to take Sun Tzu's advice and take their resources from them and use their own money to fight them with.

benEzra
June 2, 2008, 06:19 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=77346&d=1209437836

Hmmm. Looks like they are insinuating that some "book control" is necessary, as well. They object to "Semi-Auto and Auto Weapons Guides," apparently. I'm not sure how they think "closing the gun show loophole" would eliminate book sales, though.

Soldier0117
June 2, 2008, 08:40 PM
If I got one I would put something from the NRA in it, a copy of the bill of rights with the second amendment underlined and the words "the people" circled in all the amendments to show how it refers to the individual each time. I would also throw in a .223 bullet because it came from that oh so terrible "assault rifle" the "Black Rifle" that should scare them good, The AR-15 is just too evil isn't it? Lastly a picture of Charlton Heston holding up that presentation rifle.

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