[PTK]

I have a chance to take two of these home for $350 total, new in box. From what I understand this is a very good price. Are they decent for a first time flintlock user? What size ball do I need? Patch thickness? Starting loads? What size flint? How to hold the flint?

Thanks, everyone. I'm really new to blackpowder in general, and I've never used flintlocks.

[PTK]

No info at all?

[arcticap]

The most common starting load is to use a .015 patch with a ball that's .010 under the bore size. You don't mention the caliber but I believe that these are .50 caliber pistols, so the ball to try first would be a .490.
That's not to say that a .495 ball and a .010 patch can't be tried, but it will be a little tighter and the patch is thinner. The patch should have some kind of a lubricant on it like Bore Butter to keep the fouling soft and make loading easier.

The starting load in rifles is usually about the same volume of powder as the caliber, but often in pistols about 10 - 15 grains less is a good target load, then work up in 5 grain increments until you're satisfied with the performance and accuracy. There's no need to shoot more powder than necessary until you become thoroughly familiar with operating it and the recoil.

I don't know anything about flints though. If there is an owner's manual, this information should be in it.
It sounds like you've found a pretty good deal on these pistols, and maybe you can use the advanced search box function at the top of the page (specify the blackpowder forum) or Google up a site to better answer the questions that you have.
Better yet, there's also tons of flintlock shooting help at this traditional muzzle loading website. Just click on the link below to register for free and go to the flintlock subforum and any and all of your questions should be answered quickly and thoroughly:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/index.php?referral/4225/

[mykeal]

Trapper flintlocks sell new for about $275. You didn't say anything about condition, so there's no way to evaluate the deal. Traditions is not top of the line, so two for $350 may or may not be a good price. Condition is the discriminant.

They were only made in .50 cal, so articap's advice on ball and patch size is correct.

Flints are held in place with a small, thin, square piece of either leather or lead wrapped around three sides and then clamped in the jaws of the cock. As for size, measure across the face if the frizzen about halfway down, and then get a flint with that measurement across the sharp edge. It'll probably be 5/8" or 3/4". The length of the flint should be that same number or a bit larger.

The flintlock subforum of The Muzzleloading Forum is an excellent source of information, as articap said.

[PTK]

Thank you both! I'll be picking them up today or tomorrow, I wanted to be certain they were a good deal first.

mykeal

The guns are new in box, so it sounds like $350 for both is a good deal indeed.

[PTK]

I got the two flintlocks today, and I'm impressed with them. I didn't realize they were quite this neat. I know the metal finish isn't the best, but mechanically they seem quite sound.

How do I properly install the flints? I used a strip of leather to hold them, but do I simply put the flint in, make sure it's even with the frizzen, and tighten the jaws? There was nothing in the manual about that.

[arcticap]

I've heard that the flint should strike about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the frizzen, and then there's the issue about whether the flint should be bevel up or bevel down which are options.
Check this webpage out for some flintlock basics:

http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/flintlockfaq.html#11

This is the entire muzzle loading index:

http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/index.html

[arcticap]

The flint should strike the frizzen between 1/3 and 1/2 of the distance up from the bottom of the frizzen.


http://www.chuckhawks.com/flintlocks.htm

How to sharpen the edge of a flint while in the jaws of the lock (without a flintknapping tool)[a post by the author of the chuckhawks article mentioned directly above]:

Obviously, you now understand how important it is to order the right sized flint. Do so. You have time for them to arrive by Christmas. Next, square the edge to the face of the frizzen, by opening the frizzen up slightly so that the edge of the flint will strike the bottom of the frizzen face, or the back of the heel of the frizzen if you look at the frizzen from the side and see its similarity to a human leg and foot. Hold the frizzen at the correct height, with the side of your left thumb, cock the hammer back to full cock, with your right hand, and then pull the trigger. a new edge will be chipped off in one blow across the entire width of the frizzen. The only adjustment you need to do to the flint in the jaws of your cock is see that its aligned sideways correctly, so the inside edge does NOT scrape barrel, see that the flint is not too long, so that it will smack the bottom of the pan when the hammer is down, and then make sure your cock screw is down firmly on the flint and lead or leather wrap. If you use leather, stick with thin leather, like what you might get using the tongue of an old wornout shoe., or even the leather from a well worn out wallet...

Post#341627

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/99109/tp/3/

[mykeal]

Here's a view of the flint in my Lyman GPR; this shows the bevel down, thus striking the frizzen at the highest point:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/Lyman%20GPR%20Flint/3024.jpg
and the frizzen showing where the flint strikes and scrapes away to form the sparks:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/Lyman%20GPR%20Flint/3020.jpg
Your geometry may vary a bit, but that's the general idea.

[PTK]

I tried 5/8" flints, and they were scraping the frizzen unevenly. I bought some agate "flints" today and set them up like you showed, and boy do they work together. Too bad I paid $9 for the pair of cut agates!

[jrfoxx]

just a tip I learned here, and really like:
I was using a leather patch to hold my flints at first too, and it worked pretty good, but after a bit, the flint would want to start to turn to the side a little. Then I saw a thread here that said to take a round ball, flatten it with a hammer, cut to the same size/shape as the leather, and use that instead. I did (they flatter really nice and easy with a hammer), and my flint doesnt move at all now, after quite a few shots with it, where I would have had to adjust them a couple times by now when I was using leather. The lead just really holds them in place well, and you dont seem to have to torque down the screw as much as with the leather for a tight hold. A side benefit, I'm told, is that leather can dry out after a while, and can catch a spark from the pan and have a hot ember on it, which, I'm sure you can see, could get ugly if it were to fall off into the pan while you are priming :what:

Dont know if it ever actually happens, but it makes sense to me. so, that another bonus to the lead.

Just passing on what I have learned here.hope it helps

[RoaringBull]

I like the idea of the lead balls, I was wondering where I was going to get a new hunk of lead for mne. I wasn't real keen on the leather idea. Just the though tof something organic that will burn where you don't want it to burn?!?

[PTK]

I switched to lead (flashing from Home Depot, of all things) after the first dozen or so shots. I was having trouble with the flint swiveling to the side as well.


I also had a friend take a quick video while we were up there, too...

Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0fbraxD0lg&feature=user)

[mykeal]

Leather has worked for a couple hundred years in several hundred thousand guns without burning up. That said, lead works also. I personally prefer leather, but either will do nicely. As jrfoxx said, one way to make a lead sheet is to simply pound a round ball into a sheet - it's the right size and material.

[arcticap]

Those Trappers functioned well in the video.
So what did you load with and can you hit the target?
Thanks for sharing! :)

[PTK]

In the video, the first is 35gr of FFg, the second is 40gr of FFg. Both used a .005" patch and a .495 pure lead cast ball.

I was firing at about 15 yards hitting clays every shot or two. I'm hooked on flintlocks! :)