[NIGHTWATCH]

what do you think will happen with the 2A when whites nolonger have majority rule? And what do you believe should be done now to preserve it for all American's in the future?

I ask this as a white hispanic who is scared to think that the only majority of people who are truly defending this right are white. For this reason I sometimes drive my friends and family crazy with how important the 2A is. I really get stressed out over it. Thanks.

[Mark Tyson]

Why do you think race is so important?

[Matt1911]

I too am curious as to why you think race is so important.Could you shed some light on why you belive only whites are fighting for 2a?I ask only because whites have been the ones i have heard say "they'll never take our guns",while in general,other races,ecspecially ones where the parents are from the "old" country,seem to have a more pessimistic(sp?) view.

[NIGHTWATCH]

Please understand my point of view. I came from an urban cultural background that had little positive experience regarding guns. Hispanics in general (again, this is my experience) have little understanding of the importance of the 2A. In fact, if I ask them what it is, the majority dont know. Its this kind of ignorance that upsets me with my own community. These are the very same people who buy into Gun Control. They trust elected officials and government to protect them.

That said, I dont trust black or hispanic officials (not all) who I believe see gun control as the foundation to a future act of genocide against the white race. I know that this may be off the wall but again, Im just asking what people think about this. Im sorry if it seems a stupid question but I think it is valid. Only because, well, if the mindset of "victimization" is nurtured into the future and not enough minorities see the wisdom of traditional conservative values, than what do you think?

I see the kind of tyranny taking place in south africa against white land owners happening here. The world turned to south Africa to change it by way of democracy and justice. Has that happened? Is Nelson Mandella any less racist than those who controlled South Africa before him? Whats happening to those landowners? Is the world crying out against that injustice?

Many of my friends who I talk to who are black, when I share with them that I have experienced more racism from blacks than I have whites, cant talk much further on the subject. I then usually ask them how can they expect to make things better if I am their friend and they cant talk about it with me? How can they talk to anyone else?

My point in all this is if minorities are not educated now about the RKBA. Not introduced or reached with this discipline, this freedom. Not able to experience firearms in a positive way, than what of the future? When the only ones reaching them are both working to disarm them and fill them with hatred against the white man. I see a much bigger agenda here. One that I think is supported globally. The eventual slavery of the white race. Begining here in America. Not without the help of many "useful idiots".

[tyme]

Go to Boston, Los Angeles, or Chicago. There you'll not only find plenty of "whites" (ISTR that term is offensive to some, but I can't remember why) who have no idea of the importance of the 2nd Amendment, but also plenty of whites who believe, quite vehemently, that the 2nd Amendment is not important at all and that it doesn't mean what it says. You could even find plenty of white lawyers with those opinions. Why you don't see this as obvious, being in NYC, I'm not sure.

This race issue is just a red herring.

[AZTOY]

I think NIGHTWATCH has a point. Most gun owner are whites.

Also most Africa Amercain and Hispanics are Democratic.:uhoh:

It would seem that RKBA never makes it the urban cultural. Also who nomal has guns in the city, drug dealers. With the brainwashing in the schools and the bad press the RKBA is screwed:banghead:

[Sergeant Bob]

Tyme This race issue is just a red herring.
I agree with you in premise, but I don't think he means it that way.
NIGHTWATCH, I think you may be confusing societal differences (as in urban vs rural). Just take a look at the 2000 election map.

[seeker_two]

I don't think it breaks down according to race. I have plenty of people in my circle of association--of all races--that are pro-2A.

It's more a matter of self-reliance & attitude. If a person believes that THEY are responsible for their success, security, and personal destiny; they tend to be pro-2A.

If they believe that society is responsible for their lot in life, they're more likely to want to impose rules & restrictions on SOCIETY & not think of the effects on the individual.

But, then again, YYMV...

[KC]

Rember that people want to *feel* secure, and this is especially noticeable in urbanized areas. Some people feel secure if nobody but criminals (and presumably, cops, who NEVER break the law) have guns.

Re: race
Ethnic groups have built-in support groups, that also engender other political ideals. Whites have group-leaders who advocate certain religious and/or political viewpoints (Charleton Heston, Mickey More, etc.) and draw fire from groups that are non-white and/or of different cultural & political leanings (Louis Farakhan, Al Sharpton, etc.)

"White" groups tend to represent what, prior to the 1960's, were the unchallenged values of the American Everyman, which tended to reflect 'Puritan' or 'Frontiersman' values: honesty, industry, self-reliance, others like racial primacy, eliteism, and so forth. In the last 40-odd years, there has been a rise of groups that have sucessfully challenged these concepts; womens lib, civil rights groups, and others that push back or even further ahead--Luddite & 'white guilt' political parties (like the Naderites)and 'white supremacist/neo Nazis'.

"Black" groups have a distressing tendancy to place the blame for their problems on 'whites', factually correct or not. Consequently, they will attack traditional/entrenched value structures and political organization. Some of this has resulted in a more equitable distributition of political power and positive changes in the social landscape. (When was the last time you saw posted a 'whites-only' facility?) Unfortunatly, it has also led to destructive groupthink ("We are victims of [X].") and role models (Bill Clinton, rap stars, Jesse Jackson, and so on.)


How to change this?
-Get rid of "hypenated Americans", like "African-American," "Irish-American," and so forth. Want to end raceism? Great--stop supporting it through language. (Start by checking ALL those boxes under the 'race' category next time you buy a gun. Or, on your next census form, or are simply asked what race you are, just put 'American', and leave it at that...and make sure they do as well.)
-Get rid of the victim mentality. Every once in a while, C-SPAN will have footage of a racist rally in D.C., with one racist group or other demanding reparations for institutional slavery that NO ONE ALIVE has been subjected to. They have never been slaves, nor have their parents, and most their grand-parents. Get over it. Let history stay in the past and get on with YOUR life. (Every time I see some idiot do this, I want to give him that 50 acres and a mule that he is demanding, on the provision that he and his family farms it using 19th century techniques for a period of no less than 10 years.) Don't get me wrong, I appreciate this sort of behavior equally well when it comes from people demanding compensation for their Japanese grandparents imprisoned in 'concentration camps' in WWII, or the local skinheads crying about how all the jobs have been taken by Mexican illegal aliens.
-Teach children how to read, and read well in English. It's great that a child can speak a half dozen different languages (they'd be well ahead of me,) but unless one of them is English, they will not only lack access to one of the widest-spread languages, but also the one that contains the most printed material and has become the default for political exchange and technical material. (There are reason that people come to the US; so their kids can become isolated from opportunity in this country and elsewhere is probably not high on that list.)


There are others, but I'm tired, have to deal with the cat, and have likely inadvertently insulted people I did not mean to. (As opposed to the ones I did.)

NIGHTWATCH: the short answer to your question, "What do you think will happen with the 2A when whites nolonger have majority rule?" is fairly simple. Teach people the rights and RESPONSIBILTIES to be Americans; that a bias on skin color is counterpurpose to being an American. If this doesn't happen, then this country will follow along the same lines as did late 20th C. Europe...the question then will it be in the footsteps of Western Europe (central brueaucratic regulation and restriction on everything) or of SE Europe (with it's delightfully petty and rapacious ethnic/civil wars.)

My 2/100 of a standard international monetary unit.


KC

[Standing Wolf]

Much of the underlying driving force behind leftist extremist so-called "gun control" is fear and hatred of armed non-Caucasians. So-called "gun control" laws got their start in America during Jim Crow predations following the Civil War, and have received boosts following race-oriented trouble again and again.

As immigrants of any and all colors become genuine Americans rather than hyphenated Americans, a certain percentage will inevitably look into the Bill of Rights and be amazed at what they discover. I believe as long as they remain hyphenated Americans, they'll continue to be unduly susceptible to leftist extremist so-called "interpretations" of our rights and responsibilities.

[NIGHTWATCH]

Im not saying that I am correct in what Im saying at all. And Im not looking to offend anyone. I am a minority myself. And I am responding to this concern I have about how many minorities in this city view guns. Maybe Im the one who does not understand, being that my entire life has been in the city.

I know as a result of 2A groups that there are millions of black, asian and hispanic (and every other culture) American's who would die defending the Second Amendment. I also believe that unless people of color establish their own pro-gun organizations in the coming decades, as strong as the NRA is today, that we will see the 2A perish.

That if we do not become "American's" and see ourselves as "American's" first and foremost and do not embrace this country and the tradition of gun ownership and patriotism, then yes, the 2A may not stand.

How can it? :rolleyes:

[Jim March]

Forget race. Worry about AGE. If your only contact with other gunnies is online, you wouldn't realize the extreme predominance of gray hair in gun rights activism. Go to actual NRA meetings or similar in "meatspace" and you'll start getting worried.

[Thumper]

Societal tabboos involved in this discussion are making themselves obvious.

Whatever the reason, how many of your favorite pro-Second politicians are black?

Nightwatch might have a point.

[Don Gwinn]

Nightwatch makes an excellent point, actually. It's only recently that the average white gun activist has begun to give much thought to what hispanics, blacks, Asians, etc. could contribute to the RKBA if only the majority weren't enthralled by Democrat politicians who repeatedly stress to them that gun control is bad. This is a good thing, but we're not there yet. If you think this sort of thing is unimportant, or that it's bowing to political correctness about "diversity," witness the frothing and gnashing of teeth in many feminist organizations about gun companies and RKBA activists "exploiting the fears of women." They HATE that more women are learning to shoot and joining the RKBA movement. Diversity concerns aside, they know it's a numbers thing.


Jim is also right, though. I'm 25, and when we filled the Illinois State Capitol hearing rooms to defeat the Daley gun-control package, it was a great day. But I couldn't help but notice that I was not only the youngest person in the room, but the only one my age. That can't bode well. We need to recruit youth NOW.

[Sgt]

Can't we all just get along?

[NIGHTWATCH]

I think we could. :)

I have been thinking on this "concern" some more. Maybe there is hope.


What if the most powerful Gun Lobby in America today had a black face? What if the NRA had a strong, passionate and charismatic speaker who had the eloquence to speak to the masses and educate, but forceful and to the point?

I think that this would go such a long way in heading off what I consider a future reality. And if anybody is listening right now who happens to be an NRA member, I would hope that they raise this suggestion to them. If not for yourself but for your children. Im Done.

[Baba Louie]

Dead and gone...
Killed by those he knew...

Malcom X on Armed Self-Defense
It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law.

- Malcolm X, March 12, 1964

Some men are more intelligent than others, thus, more danger to the authorities. True, 40 years ago, true 140 years ago, true today.

Keep talking to them, try to sway one or two. As Mr. March pointed out, start with your kids, nieces, nephews, etc. Some will get it, some never do.

As long as this country has been a political force to reckon with, thinking citizens have been armed. Not even a majority of them... just enough, and that's plenty.

Some of the minority groups are more concerned with feeding the kids and paying the bills, others with religous concerns. Others are still are fighting a war they've won, but they don't seem to like where it left them, and I would qualify that with the additional thought that it's only a vocal few.

I guess, being lily white (actually a lght pink), I don't think of this fight in terms of race, rather character and belief in an ideal.

And I strongly agree with Jim March and Don Gwinn's point of view regarding age of those involved. Start brainwashing them young, like my Dad and Uncles did. I can't help but feel that they are right on line with the thoughts of those men who put the Colonies together... for a reason. But then, I admit to being steered in this direction as a young baba lou.

Adios

[Zundfolge]

The solution: Take a brotha to the range.

(I also understand that among Mexicans there tends to be a strong pull toward the gun culture.)



Justin and I where discussing this the other day at the range. The gun culture in America is dying ... one reason is because much of the gun culture is unwilling to change and insists on being a "white bubba" thing (this point is made whenever we start complaining about the attitudes of many gun shop owners).

There are many people who are not white rural males who are interested in guns, but interest alone is not enough to get a black, latino or asian to go to a range or gun shop where they believe they will not be wanted (and many times when they do go, they are treated like they are not wanted and may assume it's their race).

Get more non whites involved in shooting and you will not only rob the antis of some of their programed sheep, you will also rob socialists/democrats of their sheep because once a sheep dons claws they are no longer sheep :)

[coldshot03/04]

Where I live, it looks like we "white" folks are the "minority".:uhoh:

[NIGHTWATCH]

Zundfolge
The solution: Take a brotha to the range.


Justin and I where discussing this the other day at the range. The gun culture in America is dying ... one reason is because much of the gun culture is unwilling to change and insists on being a "white bubba" thing (this point is made whenever we start complaining about the attitudes of many gun shop owners).

There are many people who are not white rural males who are interested in guns, but interest alone is not enough to get a black, latino or asian to go to a range or gun shop where they believe they will not be wanted (and many times when they do go, they are treated like they are not wanted and may assume it's their race).

Get more non whites involved in shooting and you will not only rob the antis of some of their programed sheep, you will also rob socialists/democrats of their sheep because once a sheep dons claws they are no longer sheep


Exactly. :(

We often discuss here why or how the anti's arrive at their logic regarding gun control. And why they have so much financial support. This ladies and gents is why. :rolleyes:

The anti-gun forces in America are already acting on what I have been saying here all along. They know that solong as minorities are kept out of a positive gun culture spotlight, the only exposure they will get is negative. :banghead:
They KNOW that as long as the face of the American gun culture is an old white man, ignorance on both sides will eventually see the numbers drop. They are counting on this.

My conclusion here and now is that the NRA, being the biggest gun lobby today, has the power to head off this coming reality. The gun culture needs a "black Heston" to begin the end of the socialist effort to disarm all America.

The next time anybody here finds themselves upset at some new measure to control your freedom, look in the mirror. Because if having a black man leading the RKBA movement makes you a little uncomfortable, you have then played into the hands of the enemy. :fire:

I know as a result of reading some of the replies here that there are some who get it. Will the white American Gun culture "get it" as a whole in time is another question. Cant say you didnt see it coming. :mad: