[TonyB]

OK,I am no Rambo,I'm not cop,or Ninja.....I usually carry a j frame..that means 5 shots,one reload.I don't travel in "dangerous areas"(although any place can become dangerous in seconds).I'm sitting in church sunday,and thinking about possible bad guy scenarios(I know I should've been lictening to the Pastor....anyway)and I realize maybe a 1.5" 5 shot is a less than ideal choice.In my day to day,to and from work and going to the store routine,the j frame is fine.But in a group setting,it would be comforting to have more rounds and a longer sight radius.....I think on these days I may go bigger w/ my carry....
what do you all think?

[Dismantler]

I have complete faith in my J-Frames. I certainly would like something bigger to hold onto...but carry is a compromise. You may want to stick with the J-Frame for warm weather and get something else for cooler/cold weather.

I assume that you're considering a higher capacity pistol. I do not have any autos, so I cannot help there. My next step up is a K-Frame, which I sometimes carry in the car, along with the J-Frame on my person.

[StrawHat]

I have and carry revolvers.

Usually a 4" S&W in 45 ACP.

Part of carrying responsibly is not getting engaged in no win situations.

If there are more than you think you can handle, don't get involved unless the situation is forced on you.

Any scenario with a crowded room and multiple bad guys leads me to think that someone innocent is going to get hurt.

Perhaps in that situation, the best role to take is the one of reporter. Number of bad guys, description, weapons, getaway vehicle, etc.

Just because you carry does not mean you have to shoot.

[TX1911fan]

I went from a J Frame to a Springfield Armory XD subcompact with eleven shots to a Springfield Armory EMP with ten shots. I feel much better about this for a carry gun. With a couple mags that are easy to carry I can have 28 rounds at my disposal. I never felt helpless with my j frame, but I feel better now. Plus, that EMP is fun to shoot. Something I can't say about a scandium J frame.

[welldoya]

I carry a 642. The way I look at it is chances are 99.9% that you will never have to draw and use your weapon so why carry something uncomfortable ?
Then if you do have to draw, chances are that the 5 shots will be plenty.
Odds are that the J frame will be able to handle the scenario presented to you so no sense in carrying around a hawg leg "just in case".
But that's just my take on it.

[NG VI]

I only carry autos, nothing against revos but mine are just too big, especially since I don't have a good holster for either one. I have a Glock 27 that will see plenty of use this summer, 9+1 rounds of 180 Gold Dots is a good thing. It conceals well, especially since I used to only have a USp 40 and a Sigma 9mm that were readily carried, so the difference is pretty drastic. It is light, reloads are fast, and it is reliable.

Autos are nice, I like revolvers but I don't have budget to buy a snubby yet, ammo, holsters, reloading equipment, etc etc are top priority for now. It wouldn't be a mistake to move up to an auto.

[esq_stu]

I have thought through where I sit in relation to cover, concealment, and the various entrances and emergency exits.

I have made note of the fact that from my usual seat, I am pretty far from the most likely entrance a BG (at least 40 feet away) would use and very close to an emergency exit (about 10 feet away). Cover (a wide steel column and large heavy wood lectern) and concealment (same) are between me and the likely BG entrance.

I have also noted that, as far as I would be from the most likely BG entrance, I would not be a good enough shot with my 642 at that range - close to 40 ft - and there would be a lot of people between me and that entrance. But with most semi-autos I own, I could shoot adequately.

Although I'd be likely to head for the exit at the first sign of trouble, I also carry a semi that I can conceal well and shoot well. Capacity is less of an issue.

BTW, thank you for raising the issue - I have not thought about it in a while.

[ARTiger]

I think about this every week. I'm in the security detail for our church which has about 500 for each of two services and 900 for Sunday school.

Our pastor knows I carry and two of the other security guys are highway patrolmen who also carry (we shoot together sometimes as well).

Since the Colorado incident, my 642 stays home and I carry a CZ 75 with a spare mag.

The two troopers who used to carry their BUG's now carry service Glock 22's at church. Our church has a spread out campus and we all feel better now having a bit more accurate range and available rounds.

Hopefully, we will never be needed. There are 500-1000 people around in a concentrated area though that are totally defenseless. Sad it's come to this, but I have 3 children in Sunday school and churches are an inviting target for sick people with an agenda.

[Brett Byers AKA Slow]

I'm a Pastor and I'm (unfortunately) the only person carrying. I commend those who can and do. If SHTF (Satan Has The Fool) and bullets start flying everyone will be glad you practiced what you packed.

[t3rmin]

Kudos to the packin' pastor!

[Trisha]

Good that you've had a dawning of ordinary situational awareness! Plan for the worst, hope for the best, carry the most comfortable compromise and add a BUG.

I'm hoping to manage a G36 with a mini-holo sight and wring it out at the range in IDPA drills in low light. It could be a great BUG under a long skirt and just the ticket for these tired eyes.

[mes228]

The most advanced self defense/combat concealed carry pistol I've owned is the Glock 23 with Glock 22 magazines. It's the same size as the Glock 19 9mm and is a 16 round .40 caliber pistol. I've owned perhaps a hundred pistols as I trade a lot. I am constantly amazed at the reliability, accuracy, and cost of this combination. You can purchase a plastic "collar" that slips over the mag to fill the space created by the slightly longer Model 22 mag. This is just my opinion, however it was formed by actually owning, carrying, and shooting many pistols.

[Ichiro]

Purpose of a J-frame is to get you out of the situation. If your intent is to stay there and fight off the bad guys, a full-sized gun with much higher capacity will help a lot. Just my thoughts.

[1911 guy]

I'm talking moral, as well as legal. When I was single, I hardly ever carried a handgun unless required to. Now that I've got a family, my mobility is severely limited. Putting the whammy on someone and running like the wind (O.K., the middle-aged, arthritic and slow wind) is no longer an option. A handgun I can shoot very accurately, very fast and handle well is the order of the day, along with at least one reload.

All that is to say this: Consider if you may be forced to "stick around". Are your kids going to be able to get out as fast and along with you? Any other family and friends you'd "go to bat" for that would be stuck? Any blockages between you and the exits? What if the BG comes in the exit you were planning to use?

You've got two options, as I see, it and both are viable. Either practice with the snubby until you can put those 5 where you want them at a bit longer range or get a handgun that you feel will help you shoot farther with the desired/needed accuracy.

[MCgunner]

Most people I've known started out carrying a 40 ounce cannon and after a while, realized they would be a lot more comfortable and carry the thing more if it weren't such a pain. So, they DOWN sized. For me, perfection is a pocket sized compact high cap 9mm. Be you a rich Rohrbaugh fan or a po boy Kel Tec guy like me or split the difference with a PM9, there are choices. To me, the G26 is a little large. You get the point, though.

The MAIN reason I carry my P11 more than even my alloy .38 snub is it's more compact, lighter, and easier to carry a reload for. Add to that it's just as accurate, more powerful +P 9mm, carries more rounds, reloads easier/faster if you are normal (no references to Miculek, please), and a reload is much easier to carry, well, it's just a no brainer way I see it. YMMV There are Kel Tec haters, there are Kahr haters, and, well, there may be Rohrbaugh haters, though I don't know many people that can afford a Rohrbaugh without taking out a second mortgage. I guess if you hate the brands or the autoloader, you limit your choices. Some folks just love Smith and Wesson Kool Aid and won't drink anything else.

One thing I do like about revolvers is, you can cock the hammer and make a more precise shot at longer ranges if you don't think you could make that shot DA. I shoot DA pretty decent and this sort of thing doesn't bother me. I burn a lot of ammo DA shooting 6" plates off hand at 25 yards with my P11 or my snubs. It just seems more fun than shooting at 3 yards and a lot more challenging for precision shooting.

[primlantah]

i prefer my j-frame for most occasions away from the house. When im at home or going to the bad side of town i take a 11 shot 45acp or 17 rounds of 9mm.

[williamcrane]

For the most part in the past my carry gun was as S&W 642. But I have recently switched to a S&W M&P9c with a capacity of 12+1. I have over 800 rds in this auto and have not had a single FTF or FTE. Of course, I still have my 642 (along with other firearms), but now I carry the M&P.

[bigdaddydan]

you ned to carry the biggest revolver or auto that you feel confident with and can carry comfortably and your the most proficient with :evil::evil::evil::evil::D:D:D:D

[DWARREN123]

I carry GLOCK's, either 23 or 27, works for me.

[Ghost Tracker]

choices, CHOICES, CHOICES...we're a spoiled bunch of opinionators! "ah jeez, my j-frame may not be enough gun". We've all got preferences. But let's be MOST happy we can buy & carry ANY of 'em without TOO much inconvenience or fear of arrest.

(*my short soap-box rant is now over...please, carry on.)

[TexasShooter59]

I know this is an old topic, but since it involves concealed carry in church, I had to throw in a response.

I too have thought about the carry in church scenario since gaining my CHL this year. Where we sit, I stepped off about 25 yards from where the BGs would most likely enter, but that is straight back and with no diagonals across the sanctuary. The obvious choice is a SP101 for me, but it is a snub nose. It does have Crimson Trace grips though, and that might permit me hitting the BG with .357 across the church at that distance by depending on the red dot rather than focusing on a short sight radius. I have not tried this long of a distance at the range with it yet.

Another option that I really had to do... Some of the Christian bookstores have Bible book covers, the ones with a zipper around it. The one I bought had a big rectangle piece of foam in it to make it look nice and filled out in the store. I bought this, cut the foam out to fit my full-size 10mm semiauto. Put the foam and gun in the book cover so that I only had to unzip one side to reach in, put my hand around the grip and pull out. I went to Bible study with this on top of my stack of books within easy reach, with only one person knowing what I was up to.

I only had to do the above a couple of times until the threat passed. As of yet, I have not carried one time to church since getting the CHL. Our church has several uniformed police on patrol in and outside of the building, so I don't worry too much about it, at this time.

[Sato Ord]

Remember, if you tuck the holster into your waistband the length of the barrel isn't the biggest problem with concealment. An extra two or three inches of barrel is easily hidden in such a way, it's the grip that makes the difference.

If you are comfortable with the J-Frame then, by all means, get one with a longer barrel.

If you want a nice high-cap carry pistol in a good caliber check out the S&W Sigmas (tough trigger pull on those, and they are larger), or the M&Ps, or if you have the hands for those obnoxious grips the Glock 27 .40 cal.

[kbheiner7]

I am a member of the Holy Church of the 5" steel 1911. Decent leather makes carrying them a piece of cake and they make such nice, pretty holes. :evil:

I've never understood the argument about a handgun being too big to carry unless it's an LEO in deep cover. Most of us are free to employ good leather and chose our cover garments. Why not go big? Bigger guns are easier to shoot which makes makes them more effective.

[Z-Michigan]

I would carry the biggest gun that you can comfortably carry and fully conceal, and that isn't big enough to make you think about leaving it behind. My first CCW gun was a Ruger P94 - ha! It's on the bulky and heavy side for LEO service use, not to mention any practical CCW. I tried several things and ultimately went to a SP101 revolver. I may at some point get a Kahr, Kel-Tec or something else that's smaller and lighter with a few more shots. In the car I will often carry a full sized auto (like an XD or P95) in a safepacker or fanny pack, but that's too big and heavy for me in most situations outside the car. [For the record, I have the applicable carry permit in my state.]

[IdahoLT1]

I kinda had a similar problem. Most of my firearms were to big to conceal. Ive owned 2 Glocks before and although they are tanks, i dont care for their ergonomics. I ended up with a Kahr CW9. Its awesome. Its .9" thick, 4.5" tall, 5.9" long and weighs 15.8oz unloaded. It has an 7+1 capacity using single stack mags and is fairly inexpensive. I picked mine up for a $385, excluding tax, at my local Impact Guns dealer. They say that its 200rd break in period might have problems, but i never had a single hiccup. I posted a similar thread on a beretta forum and looked at/discussed several options, all being semi auto pistols. http://www.berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=34878

[Treo]

I sit in the sound booth for most services. This means that I am about 25 yards from the doors & about 5 feet up. I carry a CZ 2075 in .40 S&W and I'm sure I can hit a human at that distance W/ it especially in a supported firing position.

My advice practice at the distance you expect to be shooting & carry the gun you can consistantly hit at that distance with.

[10-Ring]

My fave is the j-frame...so much I picked up a 442 to take up the carry duty for my mod 60 :D I've tried a couple small semi autos but the versatility & reliability of the j-frame always works its way up to the forefrunt

[BikerRN]

I carry a "full size" gun and a smaller BUG, and maybe a third gun as well off duty.

My preferred carry gun is a 3" GP100. It shoots like a 4" gun and carries IWB like a 2" gun. The second gun is a 2" gun, as is the third one. I prefer a Revolver, eventhough I have my pick of "bottomfeeders" to carry.

Since I'm going to carry three guns I see no need for one of them to be a higher capacity handgun, but that's just me. The number of guns carried is not so much for capacity but rather to have a gun accessable no matter what position I may find myself in or which hand I have available to draw.

I like one of my guns to be a "full size" or nearly so gun, as I tend to shoot them a little better and faster, and the longer sighting plane is a boon for those longer shots. FYI, my guns are sighted in at 25 Yards with my carry load, even the 2" guns, and I know where they hit out further than that.

BikerRN

[c1ogden]

The 3" J frame is a very handy little gun. Much easier to hit with than the 2" model, better sights, utterly reliable, and easy to hide. Just get one of the older ones without that asinine key lock! (The 3" K frame is even better, but a bit larger.)

[Squidward]

Your carry gun may be fine if you can keep a rifle/shotgun in your car...

[docmagnum357]

I have a GLOCK 23. As the other fellow posted, it is about state of the art for a concealable handgun that shoots a major caliber round. It is accurate enough for shots under fifty yards on human silouettes. I carry it while working, because I sweat a lot, and I don't want to mess up my model 19 Smith And Wesson, 4" barrel. I bought it for my concealed carry classes, figuring most people who know nothing about handguns all have someone they know who is an"expert". The "experts" all seem to be reccomending GLOCKS nowadays. I am a little lazy, and if I have to teach them to feild strip and auto, I'd as soon teach on a GLOCK. I also figure my wife could carry it. She can't pull the slide back, although she did like the huge sights. Maybe I'll get her a GLOCK 19?
When I am at church, I carry either a 4" model 19 Smith And Wesson, or a 6.5 inch 629. I am built like a barrel, so for me, when I wear a coat and tie, either of these is actually easier to conceal inside the waistband. All that really sticks above the belt is the grip, and revolver grips are slimmer that GLOCK grips. Be carefull, however, if you are a praying man. I once got under strong conviction, and went to the alter to pray. When I got up, my coat tail was clinging to the soft rubber Houge grips on my 629. Doesn't happen with the GLOCK, or the model 19's pachmeyer grips. I don't think anyone saw the gun, but I did look a little funny.

[GunNut]

I normally carry my Glock 19, but from time to time I go back to carrying either my 340PD or one of my micro pocket pistols.

[Camjr]

As soooo many people have stated in the past, Rule 1: Have a gun. I find my 642 is always with me, whereas the XD is sometimes with me, and more often in the cooler months of the year.

I practice frequently with the 642, and practice reloads from speed strips. I won't be trying a 40 foot shot in a church with other people around, whether it's with the XD or the snubbie. Having said that, I can definitely hit what I aim at with both.

[TonyB]

just as aside....the Bilble and self defense...read Neiamiah..where the jews are rebuilding the wall....it says they had a tool in one hand,a sword in the other....tons of stuff on defense..read the Massage Bible version.They had a security detail set up too.Interesting for the "religious pacifists"or the "head in the sand,oh God will protect me"crowd.God told them to carry swords for a reason.

[gcrookston]

I carried a Sig 230 for a number of years, but moved to the J frame in the last year. I like them so much, I ended up with several. My car gun is a Sig 220, however.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/gcrookston/DSC00088.jpg

[lee n. field]

.I'm sitting in church sunday,and thinking about possible bad guy scenarios(I know I should've been lictening to the Pastor....anyway)and I realize maybe a 1.5" 5 shot is a less than ideal choice

It worked for Charl van Wyk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_James_Church_massacre).

During the Sunday evening service on 25 July 1993, a group of APLA cadres attacked the St. James Church in Kenilworth. Using grenades and AK-47s, they killed 11 members of the congregation and wounded 58. A single churchgoer, Charl van Wyk, managed to return fire with a .38 Special revolver and five rounds of ammunition wounding one of the attackers, causing the attackers to flee.

Mr. van Wyk was carrying the smallest thing he could, a J-frame popgun, and still obey the "all be armed" rule of his mission organization.

So, stop worrying and pay attention.

[Huddog]

My two concelaed weapons are a G26 with spare G17 Mag and a S&W642 with speed strip. Turns out the 642 is my always gun, no matter what I wear it goes everywhere. I love the G26 but in shorts and a tshirt it just doesn't conceal well. Of course part of that is my physical build, IWB is not a very good option for me although I do it occasionally.

[Anonymous Coward]

If one J-Frame is not enough, why not carry TWO?

[Haywood]

I always carryed Two Five shot Revolvers. After reading and hearing too many scary stories. I finally gave in, I started carrying a Glock 26 to backup my 357 Snub. Speed Loaders for the Snub and a few G 17 Mags for my G 26.







_______________________________
when they come for your guns, give them the ammo first.

[Markbo]

OP - you will get lots of opinions. Let go the ones that claim theirs is the only right choice and redefine YOUR solution regularly. I have been through this drill many times. Revolver or semi-auto, large or small, lots of ammo or just enough.

That doesn't even count the number of times I have second guessed my method of carry. Whatever makes you rethink your choices, it is good... it means you have not 'settled' for something. When you make your choice - to stay the same or move on - the best advice I can think of is to practice. Practice some more and some more. Make THAT choice as second nature as your last one.

And if you begin to change your mind again, do the same thing. We all can't carry full sized Glocks and 5 extra mags. What is practical for me may not be for you. My CCW is a commander sized 1911. My 'always' gun is a Kel-Tec that I can slip in my pocket when conditions (usually dress) don't allow for proper 1911 concealment. Get opinions, make a choice you are comfortable with and get good with your tool of choice - whatever it is.

[bikerdoc]

me thinks you have already decided you need another gun - good for you, go get one, new gun are always fun. as others have said, decide what you want, practice with it, and be confident in your ability

[lions]

I thought it was funny that you started out by saying you aren't rambo or a mall ninja. Thinking about a few extra rounds and a longer sight radius keeps you so very far away from mall ninja status. I have the same thoughts while the pastor is preaching, trying to work out all the possibilities and whatnot. It sounds like j-frame or otherwise you will be fine because of your mindset, all the better if you have the best tool for the job!

[Snapping Twig]

You'll carry it unused 99.999999% of the time, so easy carry really does make the most sense.

Balance that with the "what if you DID need to use it" for caliber selection and I believe the answer is going to be based on what you can balance between weight, what works, and what you can shoot best.

I'm a big fan of the .45acp, so for me it means an alloy framed delivery system for the big slug.

I can't carry here in the people's utopia of California, so I'm afraid I can offer no real world experience. If I could carry, I believe I'd carry my Sig P220 or my Kimber - both alloy frame.

I do carry in the woods whenever I am there and I choose a 3" .44 mag for that duty. Packs small in a cross draw, hits hard and nothing in this State is a match for it, so I feel safe with it.