Criminals learn that there are substitutes...


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F4GIB
April 30, 2008, 11:13 AM
Weapon Bans Fail to Halt Surge in Murder Rate: There has been a huge
increase in being people shot, stabbed and even kicked to death since
Labour came to power. Shocking statistics released last night show a 14
per cent increase in murder and manslaughter in England and Wales
between 1998 and 2007. There was also a 28 per cent increase in deaths
from bladed weapons. Those killed by shootings increased by the same
figure. Most shockingly, there was a 57 per cent increase in deaths
caused by punching and kicking.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/42677/Knifings-and-shootings-up-as-murder-rate-soars

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ara27499
April 30, 2008, 11:19 AM
Amazing....
BG's reverting to knives, fists and clubs! (And more of it because their victims are defenseless.)

Who'da thunk it?!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

ara27499

Dick1911
April 30, 2008, 11:36 AM
What! :eek: This means bad guys don't become good guys when guns are banned - Brady Center, say it ain't so!

Oh, they already did...:rolleyes:

Pax Jordana
April 30, 2008, 11:51 AM
I see two snide comments, I hope that I'm not the only one of us three who takes this link and posts it in other places too..

Mr_Rogers
April 30, 2008, 12:07 PM
Handguns have been restricted in the UK for many years whereas the increase in violent crime has been a recent event. Therefore, the increase in violence can not, in this instance, be blamed directly on recent gun control measures, however deplorable they are, since these measures had no significant effect on the number of handguns in circulation with the general population.

It is fair to argue that possession of handguns by the public could reduce violence, at least to the victim, because the criminal would not know if his potential victim was armed. However, I have my doubts that the average British civilian would be able to effectively benefit from the possession of a firearm "on the streets" since the population does not have the historical familiarity with firearms that is common in the US.

Certainly, the use of firearms for HD should be permitted in the UK and some form of "Castle Doctrine" should be allowed. Heck - this is the country that created the original "Castle Doctrine".

Seancass
April 30, 2008, 12:42 PM
Gun crime remains rare and we will continue to do whatever we can to keep weapons off our streets.

well thank goodness the people are being stabbed and beaten but not shot.

makes you wonder if brittain is too far gone to get their guns back. Criminals might buy them before good people. Good people might hope that just having a gun would stop the crime. Might not be willing to pull the trigger. Might not be propper to kill a man before being killed. the thought of good normal people having murderous offensive weapons is so uncivilized. better to die a gentleman.

Tommygunn
April 30, 2008, 12:51 PM
I have my doubts that the average British civilian would be able to effectively benefit from the possession of a firearm "on the streets" since the population does not have the historical familiarity with firearms that is common in the US.

This can be learned.
It is not "rocket science," nor is it something Americans are "born" with.
We have to learn it too.
It's true it takes practice, and even when you're ... "learned," you still need practice to maintain proficiency, but it isn't painfully difficult. It just requires attention and a serious mindset.
With all do respect Mr. Rogers, I think you short-change the British.

Obviously with self defense we are discussing the willingness to shoot and kill an attacker. This should give all decent human beings "pause." It is not something good people are wont to do --or should do -- lightly.
But the Brits are capable people.
Given a chance, I am sure they could "take back" their country.

Henry Bowman
April 30, 2008, 01:28 PM
This can be learned.Culturally, expect it to take about a generation.

Tommygunn
April 30, 2008, 01:44 PM
A generation for the society to learn to accept armed civilians?
Yes, probably.
But the safety & mechanics of handling guns, no.

Azidiot
April 30, 2008, 01:45 PM
:DI see two snide comments, I hope that I'm not the only one of us three who takes this link and posts it in other places too..Apparently, arrogant condescention overrules sarcasm and irony. :neener::neener:

Please! Get a grip, Pax! :) Life isn't 100% serious! :D

Cut 'em some slack, would ya'?

Azidiot

PS: None of us are getting out of this life alive. :D :D :D

berrieberrie
April 30, 2008, 01:45 PM
(...) these measures had no significant effect on the number of handguns in circulation within the criminal population.
Fixed that for you :).

RNB65
April 30, 2008, 01:47 PM
Here's a guaranteed fix for the UK's crime problems. In fact, it's the only one that will work: Ban people. All of them.
-

Mr_Rogers
April 30, 2008, 02:07 PM
TommyGunn,
Unfortunately, it's not just ability to learn to handle a handgun.

There is the whole matter of infrastructure. Places to buy a gun, the number of instructors available, the number of ranges available and framing the operating parameters, etc etc.

I have no doubt that over a number of years these problems could be solved but it is a long term project.

Perhaps the short-term solution would be to rapidly introduce concealed carry to a select group (flame away) who are willing to make the financial and time effort involved. I do not think the general population can be armed in a short time.

Tommygunn
April 30, 2008, 03:49 PM
Yeah, if that's the problem to which you are refering, I would tend to agree.
I am sure the government red tape would be the greatest hurdle. Private industry could do it quickly in comparison, but no one (even in America) is going to eradicate red tape.
I wasn't really talking about that aspect of it; I was only refering to the fact that willing people could learn pretty quickly.
But you have a point, if you consider all the other aspects of even getting too that point, it would be a haul.

another okie
April 30, 2008, 04:52 PM
A hundred years ago carrying a handgun was common enough and legal enough in the UK that anyone who felt the need could do so. The bans were intended as crime control measures and were often sold as a precaution against returning veterans after the wars who might run amok, or as a precaution against Irishmen.

To say there is no historical tradition of carrying handguns in the UK is not true. To say there is no current memory of such a tradition is true.

F4GIB
April 30, 2008, 07:44 PM
Until 1905, England had NO gun control and NO crime. Cultural/social customs of the Victorian era were sufficient to control the population.

See: "All the Way Down the Slippery Slope: Gun Prohibition in England and Some Lessons for Civil Liberties in America"
http://law.hamline.edu/files/Olson_All_the_Way.pdf

Car Knocker
April 30, 2008, 08:06 PM
Until 1905, England had NO gun control and NO crime.
NO crime? Jack the Ripper immediately comes to mind.

Rachen
April 30, 2008, 08:22 PM
NO crime? Jack the Ripper immediately comes to mind.

I was thinking of the EXACT SAME THING!

And before Jack The Ripper, there was Spring Heeled Jack, another notorious serial killer who prowled the darkened London streets during the Victorian era.

Mr_Rogers
April 30, 2008, 09:08 PM
Of course, not much before 1905 you could find yourself on a convict ship heading for Australia for poaching. Sort of puts a damper on crime.

Put a heck of a lot of resourceful tough people in Australia though.

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