When will we as a nation realize we are not safe?


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Regen
April 30, 2008, 11:36 AM
I heard a story on the radio this morning about contaminated Heparin and how the wife of one of the victims realized that we are not safe and the government will not guarantee our protection. Her quote is in this article. (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iYOiZpfz8vLL3CRzyoqkXNgIQfZQD90BOU7O0) In particular she said "we have a false sense of security" in a land where people expect to be protected and safe.

I think that this is the same attitude that many people have regarding gun ownership. Why do I need a gun, someone else will protect me. We expect to be protected and safe.

Why do people refuse to realize that if they expect to be protected, they have to do the protecting? Many people are willing to believe that God will protect them, but forget that God helps those who help themselves.

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Pat-inCO
April 30, 2008, 11:46 AM
That's interesting. I read an article a few days ago from BBC, written by a British columnist about the British tourists. He said that it is amazing how many (as in most) of the Brit's that come over here expect to see or be involved in the "Gunfight at OK Corral" because we have guns, but find instead that they actually feel safer here than in GB.

I'll look for the link and post it, presuming I can find it again. :D

John828
April 30, 2008, 11:50 AM
Probably not until it is too late.

I may just be paranoid, but I sometimes feel the next four years are going to be very rocky at best.

Pat-inCO
April 30, 2008, 11:50 AM
Found it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7359513.stm

romma
April 30, 2008, 11:53 AM
We are so dependent on all of our goods from other countries,,, we are screwed every which way to Sunday.

There are a lot of different ways to wage war against the United States these days.

Seminole
April 30, 2008, 12:09 PM
This is gun-related how?

foghornl
April 30, 2008, 12:10 PM
Probably not untill well after SEVERAL major cities are nothing but smoldering ruins...

I had figured out the un-safe thing way back in 1980...

Regen
April 30, 2008, 12:10 PM
The FDA is also stating that they think that the contamination was deliberate and took place in China. Is this another form of terrorism?

I look at the Israelis and realize that they live with terror everyday and for the most part ignore it. Someone starts shooting at a school in Israel and is quickly taken out by armed off duty military. From taking to a number of Israelis, it seems that they are not as terrorized by these acts as Americans are. I guess you'd go insane with that level violence if you let it keep you from living a normal life.

everallm
April 30, 2008, 12:13 PM
Folks,

When was the last time you saw "good" news....?

Remember for the media, the general principle is "If it bleeds, it leads". "Nice " is boring and doesn't lead to increased viewership or advertising revenues.

Don't pander to the overblown hysteria of the mass media.

ronnyreagan
April 30, 2008, 12:16 PM
I heard that story on NPR this morning and had the same reaction. She also said it was "overwhelming to discover that there are circumstances beyond our control from which we are not sheltered.":what:

MechAg94
April 30, 2008, 12:39 PM
That is just delusional. I think a lot of these people are just folks who refuse to face reality. I am not saying you have to be paranoid and cower in your basement, but awareness that bad things happen, awareness of the possibilities and your reaction to them is important. Just like they recommend parents plan the escape route in case of fire, you need a plan for what to do in case of someone breaking in.

The idea of depending solely on govt and police for protection is just foolish IMO. You don't have to be Rambo, but if someone is coming at you with a hatchet, you really should have a better option than "duck and cover".


We discuss people depending on Govt to solve all their problems quite often in political circles. The same attitude exists with regard to personal safety.

ARTiger
April 30, 2008, 12:48 PM
GDP numbers came out this morning . . . up ever so slightly. Had it been down ever so slightly the headline acrosss all news websites and most newspapers tomorrow would be "RECESSION" in huge type.

So how are the GDP numbers reported? Buried as a small link with the commentary quoting noted economic fear-mongers saying it's coming next quarter.

The media knows that bad news sells and fear is their currency.

To prepare to take care of you and yours is only prudent, but feeding the fear vendors by believing the hyperbole being peddled accomplishes goals of people most of you really wouldn't like much.

John828
April 30, 2008, 01:01 PM
That is just delusional. I think a lot of these people are just folks who refuse to face reality. I am not saying you have to be paranoid and cower in your basement, but awareness that bad things happen, awareness of the possibilities and your reaction to them is important. Just like they recommend parents plan the escape route in case of fire, you need a plan for what to do in case of someone breaking in.

+1

It seems too many people live on autopilot. As long as they are getting paid and have the "amenities" of life, they rock along "snug as a bug in a rug." Only when the SHTF do they realize how precariously their life totters on the edge of the precipice. Most of these people are only ninety days (at best) from total financial meltdown.

Someone asked how is this gun related? One word: Zombies.

mojohand
April 30, 2008, 02:06 PM
I was listening to an old Charleton Heston speech this morning and he had a good point about the "news" stories...(paraphrasing) "They deal in death and destruction sandwiched between ads for cars and cat food" something to that effect.

Regen
April 30, 2008, 04:18 PM
To quote myself from the original post.I think that this is the same attitude that many people have regarding gun ownership. Why do I need a gun, someone else will protect me. We expect to be protected and safe.
I think this is gun related because it reveals an attitude people have regarding their safe and the need (or lack thereof) for people to carry guns to provide for their own defense.

Standing Wolf
April 30, 2008, 04:30 PM
I was listening to an old Charleton Heston speech this morning and he had a good point about the "news" stories...(paraphrasing) "They deal in death and destruction sandwiched between ads for cars and cat food" something to that effect.

News has devolved into yet another form of "entertainment" for the intellectually lazy.

another okie
April 30, 2008, 04:47 PM
The press seem to have adopted a policy of playing down the Muslim connections of any attack, which I think is one reason why so few people realize how many Muslim terror attacks there have been in this country since 9 /11.

Cosmoline
April 30, 2008, 04:56 PM
Mr. Strunce said that his company tried to find the original source of the contamination but was stopped by the Chinese authorities.

When will we realize we're not safe from Chicom scum is the real question. We should be at war with them, not trading with them.

Regen
April 30, 2008, 05:01 PM
The press seem to have adopted a policy of playing down the Muslim connections of any attack, which I think is one reason why so few people realize how many Muslim terror attacks there have been in this country since 9 /11.
Okay another_okie, I'll bite. How many Muslim terror attacks have there been in this country since 9/11?

jakemccoy
April 30, 2008, 05:01 PM
Regen wrote,Why do people refuse to realize that if they expect to be protected, they have to do the protecting?

It's because of upbringing.

I dated a girl who seemed to be an independent, strong woman. I developed a passion for guns in the middle of our relationship. I took her to the range. She enjoyed it. I tried to talk about real life scenarios with her. She eventually got overwhelmed and said, "Forget it; I'll just get raped if it comes down to it." I didn't fully believe she meant that. However, her inability to process real life scenarios gets chalked up to upbringing. She's been raised to think that somebody else (a strapping man) will protect her from violent attacks.

The Tourist
April 30, 2008, 05:15 PM
You bring up a good point, but I'm going to give you a very strange answer, but please follow the logic.

I don't want it to be a safe place, meaning community, state or nation.

To render every square foot of the country tame, it would mean that a strong central government knows every opinion and leaning of every citizen. That boils down to their movements, their logical decisions based on their finances and medical records, and application of a "nanny mentality" on every non-approved action like skydiving, motorcycling or target shooting.

In point of fact, they will know where I am standing vis a vis every other citizen, and my logical use of commerce and human interaction.

They will know what I am going to do before I do it.

To blunt that, I'll have to roll back any intrusion of "the state" sanctioning anything I do--including getting punched in the nose--which covers about one-third of you members with numbers climbing.

And I'd rather risk a poke in the snoot every morning if it meant I could enjoy clear thoughts and the rush of fresh air in my freedom of riding without a helmet.

In point of fact, I want it to be dangerous for you to disuade me in any action that is none of your business.

Of course, we would have to ashcan things like excuses, welfare payments, and living forever in academia doing nothing but staining microscope slides of gay horsefly larva...

owlhoot
April 30, 2008, 05:40 PM
"Every step you take, every move you make, I'll be watching you." Sting had this all figured out 25 years ago.

Regen
April 30, 2008, 06:10 PM
jakemccoy wrote
It's because of upbringing.
I was not brought up to realize that you needed to protect yourself. I was brought up believing that the police would protect you, but I realized that they might not. At some point we as a nation seem to have lost our self sufficiency, and have come to depend upon the government and others to provide things that we ourselves should be able to provide.

jakemccoy
April 30, 2008, 06:28 PM
Regen wrote,
I was not brought up to realize that you needed to protect yourself. I was brought up believing that the police would protect you, but I realized that they might not. At some point we as a nation seem to have lost our self sufficiency, and have come to depend upon the government and others to provide things that we ourselves should be able to provide.

...Thus, fixing upbringing of kids in America is a solution to the problem.

My upbringing was similar to yours in what you described.

Nevertheless, the widespread "victim" attitude is because of upbringing mostly. Sure, throw in other factors here and there, but upbringing is at least 51% of the reason. You're trying to oversimplify upbringing based on your personal experience. You're an exception, not the rule.

Regen
April 30, 2008, 06:42 PM
Okay, so what aspect of upbringing teaches this? I was never taught this explicitly.

The closest I can think of was my father (who had a Ph.D. in Organic Chemistry) telling me to question "scientific" facts. That I had to understand the source of the information and should be able to reproduce the experiments or proofs. Somehow, it appears that this, in my mind became question scientific authority, which became question authority, which lead to the authorities will not provide for you, to provide for yourself.

RNB65
April 30, 2008, 06:58 PM
Define "safe".

The U.S. is not threatened by any major foreign military power. Most major communicable diseases have been wiped out or are controllable. There is an adequate supply of safe food and water for the entire population. We are, in fact, safer than we've ever been in history. The threat of random crime/accidents/acts of God is an inherent risk of living and can never be eliminated. Anyone who wants more "safety" is stuck in a utopian dream.

Ironically, our safety is also why we're vulnerable. Most folks have no memory of hard times and have become soft and spoiled by creature comforts. Oh, well, c'est la vie.

Of course, our biggest threat is internal. Namely, those who would strip away our fundamental constitutional and civil rights in the name of the illusion of safety.
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Rachen
April 30, 2008, 06:59 PM
When will we realize we're not safe from Chicom scum is the real question. We should be at war with them, not trading with them.

So calling the soveriegn Chinese government names is very High Road isn't it? The Chinese Communist Party liberated our people from a hundred years of oppression by foreign imperialists and they brought our nation back to it's feet again after over a century of bloodshed. Any "media" that speaks negatively about China is just afraid that China will dominate world politics, and as a result, they use fearmongering and rumor-mongering to make the world's most peaceful civilization look like killers and extortionists.
Ever wonder how the Tibet Independance groups are funded?? These people are paid by western capitalist enterprises to try and mess up China's stability.

I dare them to try some bullsh*t at the Olympics. They will be CRUSHED! Just ask the scumbag rioters at June 4th, 1989 how it felt to betray their country. Oops, I forgot, they are burning in hell right now. So how does it feel to be enticed by a few dollars of western enticement to go and betray your own country? Instead of the thousands of dollars they were promised by the western corporations and governments who enticed them to riot, they instead got a wall of cold steel from the People's Liberation Army. Thats what happens to traitors who sell out their homeland. Period.

Back to the original posting.

You just love wars don't you? Really nice feeling, isn't it?, to take over the world with weaponry and violence and force all world cultures to bow to your "sovereignty"? It's a wonder you can actually go to sleep at night with such twisted thoughts.

Of course this world is not a safe place anymore, since we have so many warmongering neocons about, just licking their lips at even the thought of war and aggression and roughing up people with your supposed "superior technology"

What is up with this neocon mentality? Very immature. Just like schoolyard bullies. That kid has a fancy bookbag, right? Well, I'll just go over and take it from him. Nice and easy, don't ask, don't explain, maybe threaten him a little bit so he won't tell his mommy or the teacher.
Hopefully it works out for me. Or maybe that nice kid is actually fed up with the bullying and and has a nice long sliver of glass concealed under his shirt that he will shove right up my ass when I go over there and even attempt to get his schoolbag. In that case, I'll be f*cked, BIGTIME. Not only I'll not have a new and fancy schoolbag I was hoping to get for "free", I'll be in the hospital bleeding from a 20 inch piece of glass lodged up my rectum and preforated my large intestine, and maybe even punctured who knows what?

Please be aware of what you are asking for when you ask to start a war with another soveregn country just because you envy it's riches.

Cosmoline
April 30, 2008, 07:01 PM
So calling the soveriegn Chinese government names is very High Road isn't it?

The sovereign Chinese government is a communist tyranny. The only thing we owe them is a kick in the teeth, but we've sold our soul for the commercial prospect of two billion armpits. I damn them now and for all time. I pray death comes swiftly to every tyrant over there.

The Chinese Communist Party liberated our people from a hundred years of oppression by foreign imperialists and they brought our nation back to it's feet again after over a century of bloodshed.

Best laugh I've had all day.

I dare them to try some bullsh*t at the Olympics. They will be CRUSHED!

This is particularly rich. "How dare you call us tyrants! We'll CRUSH you for that!"

a wall of cold steel from the People's Liberation Army.

What warm, friendly folks run China these days! Can't wait for the Chinese Century when we all get to experience some of that.

I really, really miss Reagan. Remember how shocked people were when he had the guts to call the USSR an evil empire? Where's anyone with that kind of spine now? Our leaders are too busy kowtowing to tyrant kleptocrats. And we're to busy getting Chinese bargains at WalMart to give a crap about the slave labor and political manipulation from Burma to Tibet to North Korea. That government must COME DOWN. It's EVIL and we owe it NO RESPECT.

Folks, we buy their junk (including arms and ammo) and we fuel their tyranny. It's that simple.

Rachen
April 30, 2008, 07:09 PM
The sovereign Chinese government is a communist tyranny. The only thing we owe them is a kick in the teeth, but we've sold our soul for two billion armpits.

Try doing that when several billion people are united and ready to defend their motherland from foreign imperialism.
The last time a foreign power came into our motherland and tried to f*ck us over, we had their severed heads dangling off the walls of the imperial fortress at Xian. (Hint, ask the British opium dealers in 1900. But then, they are in Hell now, still with spikes driven through their thorax)

I have been advocating and working hard for eternal Sino American Friendship since I was very young, and it is people like you who are trying to undo the work that me, and many others have so painstakingly performed to ensure that the people of two great nations will always be friends and work together to promote world peace and harmony.

When I see the ignorance of a few people, it drives me to tears.

Sitting behind a computer and calling for War! War! is a pretty simple thing to do. After all, you aren't concerned the least bit about possible consequences. However, when finally get what you wish for, you will find out that war is not the glory and world domination you want so much.

jakemccoy
April 30, 2008, 07:11 PM
Regen wrote,Okay, so what aspect of upbringing teaches this? I was never taught this explicitly.

The closest I can think of was my father (who had a Ph.D. in Organic Chemistry) telling me to question "scientific" facts. That I had to understand the source of the information and should be able to reproduce the experiments or proofs. Somehow, it appears that this, in my mind became question scientific authority, which became question authority, which lead to the authorities will not provide for you, to provide for yourself.

Perhaps that's an explanation of how you got to where you are now. Then again, you may be just an exception. I can tell you a few stories of poor kids with horrible nutrition who grew up to play in the NBA. They're exceptions.

Here are some examples to further my point:

Did you have a positive or negative view of Hitler growing up? Was your view molded primarily by independent research or by what older people presented to you? If you say independent research, you're either a rare exception or you're lying.

Do you think Islamic kids in the Middle East naturally grow up hating the U.S., or do you think older people in their lives influence their thought development? If you say it’s planted in their genetic code, you’re either joking or you’re dealing with a mindset that’s unattached to reality.

Cosmoline
April 30, 2008, 07:16 PM
I'm all for sino-American friendship. Once the Communist heads are hanging on that wall you mentioned. What you're advocating isn't a friendship between free people, but the support of a rank tyranny in the hopes of making a quick buck. But I don't want to single you out for criticism. We're all participating in the tyranny now. We're in it up to our eyeballs. And we'll all pay when the time comes. Because our economies are joined at the hip, when the Communists collapse they're taking us with them. Say bye bye to Wal-Mart bargains!

As far as war, it's purely rhetorical. If we bombed China now we'd be bombing our own factories. If we stopped the PLA's slave labor we'd be increasing our own prices. You worry so much about an imperialist takeover. Wake up! The Communists have sold out the entire country to imperialists! It's real ugly.

Rachen
April 30, 2008, 07:23 PM
I'm all for sino-American friendship. Once the Communist heads are hanging on that wall you mentioned. What you're supporting isn't a friendship between free people, but the support of a rank tyranny in the hopes of making a quick buck.

Without the Communist Party, there will be no modern China. Of course, in the eyes of potential western imperialists, they hope that China is weak and divided. After all, it is much easier to divide the country between world powers and split China into pieces like pie slices when the country is weak.

The heads that were hanging off that wall are the heads of British imperialists who came to China hoping they will be some sort of Indiana Jones-type hero emptying some ancient vaults of their treasure. Instead, they received the razor sharp halberd blades held in the hands of the Righteous Boxers slicing straight through their jugulars.

Oh, I truly hope those Tibet independance bastards come out to the streets during the summer. It will be easier for our government to put down, when they are out in the open like that.
And in the west, the government only played a small part in suppressing these bastards.
In the western provinces, a majority of the civilian population have rifles, not to mention other things like swords and halberds and pickaxes. Before the army was able to come in and restore order in March of this year, it was people like us who loved our country, who held these scum at bay and killed a fair number of them too and restored order.
Me, and a majority of our people, support our government and nation. And don't think "it's just the government" you are against. The government IS THE PEOPLE! And we will be so quick to defend our country, it will make reciting the alphabet seem like a prolonged, one day affair.

Cosmoline
April 30, 2008, 07:28 PM
You ought to read the last part of your own sig line.

Rachen
April 30, 2008, 07:30 PM
You ought to read the last part of your own sig line.

I invite you to come to China and see for yourself. Take a tour of the western provinces. By Lord, I'll even pay for your plane ticket if it means I can educate another person and make him realize that China is not what the Yankees and the Westerners make it to be.

Cosmoline
April 30, 2008, 07:32 PM
You're confusing the party with the nation. China is vastly older and much larger than the Communist Party. Criticism of the Communists is not criticism of China, and calling for their destruction is not calling for China's destruction. Unfortunately the Party has done a very good job of convincing the people that they cannot exist without it. Even better than the GOP has here!

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