Economist Feature on Gun Ownership


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OnPointFirearms
April 30, 2008, 06:24 PM
http://media.economist.com/images/na/2008w18/Guns.jpg
From The Economist print edition- Apr 30th 2008:
"An estimated 875m small arms are in circulation worldwide: one for every seven people on the planet. Nearly three-quarters of these are owned by civilians. And about 80% of those guns in civilian hands are found in just 30 countries, according to the Small Arms Survey, a research group. Although America accounts for 40% of firearms in civilian ownership, people put them to more deadly use elsewhere. The gun murder rate in Colombia and South Africa, for example, is much higher than in America."
[Link to Economist Feature] (http://www.economist.com/daily/chartgallery/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11117412)

Just saw this posted on the Economist earlier today and thought you guys would be interested. Have a good one.
--Evan

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Optoman
April 30, 2008, 07:17 PM
Any one else surprised by France being 2nd?

Marcus84
April 30, 2008, 07:25 PM
That's the ugliest gun I've ever seen.

lacoochee
April 30, 2008, 07:25 PM
I am not sure about the validity of the ranking system they are using.

In a lot of countries there is no official record of who owns guns or at least the official in charge of keeping those records is so corrupt that those figures are likely bogus.

I also notice that the Philippines is not listed and I was under the impression that they have a high civilian gun ownership rate. I remember seeing many shotguns etc. when I lived there.

Additionally, I personally think the gun ownership rate and the total number of guns in the US is much higher than the estimates. This is anecdotal of course but a lot of firearms never really leave circulation.

cracked butt
April 30, 2008, 07:26 PM
90 firearms? I only have 1/2 that number, I have a lot of catching up to do....oh wait, per 100 people:p

TS537
April 30, 2008, 07:27 PM
I saw that earlier today; I read The Economist regularly. What is that weird looking gun? I wonder if the French carry small, underpowered, unreliable guns that say "LeGun" on the side in big, cheerful letters...

That joke only makes sense if you remember the early 80s.:D

Seancass
April 30, 2008, 07:33 PM
i think we all need to do what ever we can to make american the perfect 1.0 guns per person. and then start working towards 2.0

PTK
April 30, 2008, 07:39 PM
As already pointed out, those are only the firearms they know about. :)

Number 6
April 30, 2008, 07:41 PM
I am not surprised by France. France has a vibrant gun culture, that we forget about too often here in the US. The gun in the picture looks like a Sig 220 of some kind.

DoubleTapDrew
April 30, 2008, 07:48 PM
The gun in the picture looks like a Sig 220 of some kind.

With some sort of metrosexual weight or compensator bolted to the front.
That graph makes it appear that 90% of American's own a gun. At least some folks with enough money to have awesome collections are skewing the results in the right direction :evil:

CountGlockula
April 30, 2008, 07:55 PM
AN ESTIMATED 875m small arms are in circulation worldwide: one for every seven people on the planet.

So how do we arm the other 6?*

*Lord of War reference.:D

PPGMD
April 30, 2008, 07:55 PM
That's a Sig 220 Sport, not that isn't bolt on, it was part of the package including a hammer that is designed for improved single action pull.

bwavec
April 30, 2008, 08:00 PM
One of the things that this info doesn't address is collections vs in use weapons.

The US probably has more (per capita) gun COLLECTORS (many of whom do not use/fire the bulk of what is in their collection), than anywhere else in the world (hello disposable income !). That is where the higher overall standard of living makes it possible to purchase multiple firearms.

I think they should not just count the total number, but rather the total number that are actually used/fired. Specially stored "safe queens" are a very different animal than EDC/CCW weapons, active hunting/target shooting weapons, etc..

Look at how many weapons individual members of this board own ? How many of them do they actually shoot on an at least occasional basis ?

I own just over half a dozen firearms...and I use/shoot all of them, but it is a stretch to use everything every time at the range. Someone who owns 12+ pistols most likely has a lot of metal in their gun safe that rarely makes a trip out of the house.

The Economist of all places should look at what the effect of large disposable income has on firearms ownership. And try to see how many of those are "collectibles/investments" vs guns that see regular use.

Statistics and numbers can be used to prove pretty much anything you want them to prove.......

TEDDY
April 30, 2008, 08:12 PM
where is Switzerland???as another poster said only what they know of.Mass lost 1,500,000 owners in 1998.:uhoh:I wonder if they count all the jap/mauser/sks/and/russian in this country. :confused::D:D

Alexfubar
April 30, 2008, 08:22 PM
gun owner
Mass lost 1,500,000 owners in 1998. .....

Legal owners. No one around here remembers any great " Turn in " of the million and a half gun cabinets ....

BullpupBen
April 30, 2008, 08:23 PM
I've subscribed to the economist for about a year now and in that time any article they've run on gun control has been clearly anti-gun, such as one on the DC gun ban where they had a chart "gun homicides vs national homicide rate" while failing to report what the actual DC homicide vs national homicide rate was.

This shows they are changing their position in a good way and hopefully more like this will follow.

"Although America accounts for 40% of firearms in civilian ownership, people put them to more deadly use elsewhere. The gun murder rate in Colombia and South Africa, for example, is much higher than in America."

cambeul41
April 30, 2008, 08:27 PM
When I lived in Thailand (1965-1972), in ChiangMai the police said 2/3 of the men and 1/3 of the women were carrying. For in-country air flights, I checked my gun when picking up mu boarding pass. It was placed in an envelope which was returned to me upon arrival. No paper work was involved.

unspellable
April 30, 2008, 08:28 PM
Percentage of population who are gun owners would make more sense.

I missed Turkey in the list. I don't know what the ownership rate is, but I was surprised to learn that Turkey is second only to the US in the number of hunters per 100,000 population.

WayneConrad
April 30, 2008, 08:49 PM
The source for that bar chart: The Small Arms Survey 2007 (http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/files/sas/publications/yearb2007.html) (summary)

Read Chapter 2, "Completing the Count". I learned two things. First, the survey drips with bias. Second, the numbers are difficult to trust, even if the surveyors had no bias: Their source numbers are necessarily a mess to make sense of.

Guitargod1985
April 30, 2008, 08:53 PM
That's the ugliest gun I've ever seen.


ever see a Glock?

Mortech
April 30, 2008, 08:54 PM
TS537 , I got it , I used to own a LeCar when I lived in Germany during the early 80's

Marcus84
April 30, 2008, 08:58 PM
ever see a Glock?

Hahah good point. However a Glock with a stainless slide/paint job still looks better than that thing.

Guitargod1985
April 30, 2008, 09:01 PM
Someone on this board from Europe (Denmark I believe) was saying that a civilian owned pistol over there is required to meet a certain minimum length requirement - i think it came out to just over eight inches (220 mm maybe?). This would explain the unsightly extension.

RNB65
April 30, 2008, 09:24 PM
Any one else surprised by France being 2nd?

Not really. The majority of France is rural countryside and the right of civilian gun ownership dates back to the French Revolution in 1789. Hunting and target shooting are both very popular in France. Gun ownership is heavily regulated (surprise, surprise), but most type of weapons other than FA are allowed if you're willing to wade thru all the written exams, probationary periods, and other Gov red tape.
-

benEzra
April 30, 2008, 09:37 PM
Any one else surprised by France being 2nd?
Not after seeing this a while back:

http://www.ar15france.com/forums/templates/subSilver/images/logo_phpBB.gif
http://www.ar15france.com/forums/portal.php

LawBot5000
April 30, 2008, 09:38 PM
One thing that is odd is that Switzerland is listed as having zero civilian firearms ownership even though they are using a nearly identical militia system to the US. Their entire military is "civilians."

The only difference is that the swiss government maintains their militia while the US government neglects the militia in favor of a professional military which is more useful for overseas expeditions.

jlbraun
April 30, 2008, 09:39 PM
Here is a more comprehensive list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

MutinousDoug
April 30, 2008, 09:45 PM
Where is Mexico? Why are Ireland and Scotland left out of the UK count? "Oh Yes! Please include me in your list of owners of illegal guns."
Where Are Somalia and the Sudan?
I call: Shenagans!!

Neo-Luddite
April 30, 2008, 10:31 PM
The U.S. numbers are 'inflated' by virtue of the fact that we have had (mostly) un-interupted transfer of heirloom weapons through families--and as pointed out--many don't see much use. I don't mind the numbers tending high for us, as it works in our RKBA favor--but those other countires (like France) have had purges and wars in their fairly recent pasts--maybe in fact meaning more "attic' guns than here not counted.

CypherNinja
April 30, 2008, 10:43 PM
jlbraun beat me to it. They left out many, many countries in order to get a smaller graph. France is actually 7th.

Standing Wolf
April 30, 2008, 10:49 PM
I wonder if the French carry small, underpowered, unreliable guns that say "LeGun" on the side in big, cheerful letters...
That joke only makes sense if you remember the early 80s.

Hah! I had a Le Car for awhile. It wasn't much of a car, but it lasted awhile when I couldn't afford anything better.

After glancing at the chart, I can truthfully tell you: I'm gladd the U.S.A. is number 1, but believe the rest of the world ought to get busy and try to catch up.

green-grizzly
May 1, 2008, 12:22 AM
Ecommunist.

They are stridently anti-gun, although they are a little more circumspect now that most of their readers are in North America. They received too many letters beginning with "Please cancel my subscription ..." Including mine.

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