Now THIS is Activism that pays off immediately - "Gun Buyback Misfires"


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Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
April 30, 2008, 09:20 PM
Quite possibly the funniest thing I've ever read. :D :D

This is written by the National Rifle Association, as printed in the May 2008 issue of "America's First Freedom". I'm sure they don't mind us sharing it here:

Gun "Buyback" Misfires

Finally, a gun "buyback" that worked - at least for some area gun sellers.

Oakland's recent so-called gun "buyback" backfired in a big way. In the February program, Oakland police offered to buy handguns and so-called "assault weapons" for $250 each, "no questions asked; no ID required."

That price, as it turned out, was high enough to attract sellers a little different than what police officials had planned.

According to a report in the Contra Costa Times, the first two people in line were gun dealers with 60 firearms each. That's a total of $30,000, probably way more than the guns were worth.

The program attracted so many sellers that the police ran out of money and had to start giving out IOUs. At the end, the police department was stuck with a bill for $170,000.

It's just more happiness and warm fuzzies than I deserve today. Oh, bless those gun dealers for doing that - they can take a much-needed vacation now with that profit on their full inventory of Lorcins. :)

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k_dawg
April 30, 2008, 09:29 PM
FINALLY a reason to buy jennings, lorcin's etc :-)

mekender
April 30, 2008, 09:47 PM
i wonder, what does a FFL put in his log book for those guns?

41magsnub
May 1, 2008, 12:09 AM
i wonder, what does a FFL put in his log book for those guns?

Investment opportunity

Green Lantern
May 1, 2008, 12:17 AM
"Teach the police a lesson about moronic gun-buybacks by bankrupting them by making them pay far more than market value for cheap guns? BRILLIANT!!!! :D :D :D

Now, when a few people take advantage of these things to make a great profit on a beat-up old gun....good for THEM, but bad in that it makes the "brains" (and I use the term loosely) behind these things actually think they're "making a difference..."

But a concentrated effort to totally bust the budget of one? With respect to McDonalds, "I'M LOVIN' IT!"

....though, part of me has to wonder...will the cops spin this? Ie, "WOW, look at ALL these EVIL DANGEROUS TOOLS OF MURDER we took of the street, go US!"

kingpin008
May 1, 2008, 12:29 AM
I'd be happier if there was a guarantee that the money didn't come from taxpayer's pockets. I know that these events are usually at least partially funded by an anti group, but I've yet to see/hear of one that is 100% privately funded.

That said, the dealers were pretty clever. :)

Gingerbreadman
May 1, 2008, 12:40 AM
I'd be happier if there was a guarantee that the money didn't come from taxpayer's pockets.

Anti-gunners are taxpayers too :)

wideym
May 1, 2008, 01:12 AM
These gun buyback schemes make me wonder why don't these anti gun movie stars and buisness owners start their own buyback with their own money?

They have millions of dollars each and collectively hundreds of millions if not a billion dollars to end the scurge of assault weapons. Heck with that kind of money they could buy up gun manufacturers and shut the doors.

But they would rather force their socialist agenda with taxpayer money. Maybe they haven't heard or just don't belive "We pledge our lives, our forturnes, and our sacred honor."

OAKTOWN
May 1, 2008, 01:12 AM
Yeah, that was the brain child of Don "Under perpetual FBI investigation" Perata. Apparently he's still trying to dig up money to cover what they paid out. I guess his anti buddies aren't eager to chip in. I thought paying $250 for each gang banger liver brought in would have been more effective.:evil:

wideym
May 1, 2008, 01:23 AM
Livers are kind of messy, how about doing the Arab thing and start off with the right hand.

chucrusty
May 1, 2008, 01:23 AM
no wonder Hi points are flying of the shelves, the only bad point is if you live in this area, no more low investment fun guns, like the crvena zastava m70 i recently picked up for $140.00.

Cave Dweller
May 1, 2008, 01:25 AM
I heard some guy turned in 3 starter pistols at that buyback,
And spent the gift cards in his favorite gun shop (just a rumor) :evil:

Floppy_D
May 1, 2008, 01:26 AM
This would be cooler if it was followed by an article labeled "Person sells Twenty Ravens to Local PD to Fund Full-Auto Purchase."

Kind of Blued
May 1, 2008, 01:45 AM
Why don't they have these in my neck of the woods?!?!

That's even easier than clinical research.

ColinthePilot
May 1, 2008, 01:51 AM
Why don't they have these in my neck of the woods?!?!

Seriously! I wish they had a $250 each buyback in san antonio. I have a pistol and a mosin that I would sell (plus about 10 more mosins I would go buy to turn in for 150% profit) and go buy a few more mosins and a few other things.

Guy B. Meredith
May 1, 2008, 02:45 AM
I need to find a buy back that wants a decrepit Remington 514 and Mossberg 95K.

Dookie
May 1, 2008, 03:38 AM
Same thing has happened in other cities as well, people just keep bringing in their cheap or broken guns and turn around and buy good ones.

evan price
May 1, 2008, 06:03 AM
Wow, for $250 each, Hi-Point could just drop-ship C9's by the semi load direct from the factory and really clean up!

BedPimp
May 1, 2008, 06:14 AM
Hmmm, had I known about that I could have funded the 1911 I've been eyeing...

OMGWTFBBQ
May 1, 2008, 06:19 AM
Hehe, I wonder if anyone's made a website listing when, where, and how much they're paying for what...






Maybe I should do it :D. I've also been looking for an easy way to finance a road trip :evil:

foghornl
May 1, 2008, 08:56 AM
Hmmm

I got my Yugo 59/55 SKS (Yeah... the REALLY SCARY model with grenade launcher stuff and big blade bayonet) for $200...$50 profit there

M-44 Mosin-Nagant for $50...hmmmm$200 profit there probably would have to fold out the bayo for maximum eeeeevil look

Bubbles
May 1, 2008, 09:01 AM
i wonder, what does a FFL put in his log book for those guns?

Oakland Police Department, 455 Seventh Street, Oakland, CA 94607

;)

Superlite27
May 1, 2008, 09:11 AM
I'd be happier if there was a guarantee that the money didn't come from taxpayer's pockets.

Look at it this way:

Your tax dollars (and the anti's as well) are being donated to support people selling old guns in order to possibly purchase new ones.


I have no problem donating my tax money to be used to support the firearms industry. It's much better than having it used for welfare, or some other socialist government scheme.

jlangton
May 1, 2008, 09:52 AM
hehe...this is rather amusing.
JL

ceetee
May 1, 2008, 10:00 AM
From what I understand, much of the payout money comes from confiscated funds. That said, I wish they would offer more than $50 down here. I got an M44 that I could stand to part with for a couple hundred bucks profit...

El Tejon
May 1, 2008, 10:34 AM
Has anyone tried my idea of painted up airsoft guns?

Carl N. Brown
May 1, 2008, 10:37 AM
Jeez. Gun collectors take more guns off the streets, give them good homes, and give the previous owner a better value, than all these buy-back programs together.

CountGlockula
May 1, 2008, 11:25 AM
Here's the Contra Costa Article:

http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_8345073?nclick_check=1

GUEST COMMENTARY
ALEX TABARROK From the community
Oakland's gun buy-back misfires

Contra Costa Times
Article Launched: 02/23/2008 03:03:55 AM PST

On Feb. 9, Oakland police, led by state Sen. Don Perata, D-Oakland, offered to buy handguns and assault weapons for $250 each, "no questions asked, no ID required." The "One Less Gun" buy-back program attracted so many eager sellers that the money quickly ran out. But instead of closing up shop, the police handed out IOUs good for a future buy back. The Oakland police are now stuck with a bill for $170,000.
The buy back has been criticized as a poorly organized fiasco, but even the critics say it was "the right idea" and "a step in the right direction."

On the contrary, the buy back was a bad idea from the beginning. Gun buy backs have been tried before, in cities from Seattle to Washington, D.C., and they simply don't work.

In an authoritative study, the National Academy of Sciences reported that "the theory underlying gun buy-back programs is badly flawed and the empirical evidence demonstrates the ineffectiveness of these programs."

It doesn't take much insight to understand why gun buy backs don't work. Gun buy backs attract low-quality guns from people who aren't likely to use them to commit crimes. The Oakland police, for example, bought a dozen guns from seniors living in an assisted-living facility. Are you relieved to know that Perata disarmed these dangerous senior citizens?

The Oakland buy back was especially absurd because of the high price offered: $250. Why didn't anyone running the program think to look at the price of a new gun? In fact, the first two people in line at one of the three buy-back locations were gun dealers with 60 firearms packed in the trunk of their cars.
One wonders why the police even bothered to buy the guns from Oakland residents. Why not buy directly from gun manufacturers?

Of course, buying guns from manufacturers is so obviously an absurd way to reduce the supply of guns that it has never been proposed.

Nevertheless, the idea is no less absurd when Oakland residents serve as the middlemen between the manufacturers and the police.

Buying a few thousand guns in Oakland is not going to make it more difficult for criminals in Oakland to get a gun.

There are 150 million to 200 million guns in the United States, so there are plenty of low-quality guns to be sold. An Oakland gun buy back is like trying to drain the Pacific -- every bucket of water you take out is instantly replaced. Even large gunbuy-back programs are unlikely to have significant effects. Australia spent half a billion dollars buying guns, with no significant effect on homicide by firearms.

Imagine that instead of guns, the Oakland police decided, for whatever strange reason, to buy back sneakers. The idea of a gun buyback is to reduce the supply of guns in Oakland. Do you think that a sneaker buy back program would reduce the number of people wearing sneakers in Oakland? Of course not.

All that would happen is that people would reach into the back of their closet and sell the police a bunch of old, tired, stinky sneakers.

Gun buy backs won't reduce the number of guns in Oakland. In fact, buy backs may increase the number of guns in Oakland.

Imagine that gun dealers offered a guarantee with every gun: Whenever this gun gets old and wears down, the dealer will buy back the gun for $250.

The dealers' guarantee makes guns more valuable, so people will buy more guns.

But the story is exactly the same when it's the police offering the guarantee. If buyers know that they can sell their old guns in a buy back, they are more likely to buy new guns. Thus the more common gun buy backs are held, the more likely they are to misfire.

Recognizing that gun buy backs don't work is neither pro- nor anti-gun. We all want to reduce gun crime in Oakland. Yet the Oakland police and concerned private citizens have spent $250,000 on a policy that doesn't work and that everyone who has studied the issue knows does not work.

The guns bought in this buy back are destined to be melted down to create a monument.

It's a shame that this monument will be the only lasting effect of the buy back.

Tabarrok is research director for the Independent Institute in Oakland, and associate professor of economics at George Mason University.


They had one here in Los Angeles, but instead of $250 per gun the officials gave out gift cards to Target, Toys R Us, Best Buys, etc. but value ranged from $20-$100.

Seancass
May 1, 2008, 11:34 AM
THIS SUCKS!

That's hundreds of guns that i could afford, gone just like that. sure, now no gang-bangers with criminal records are buying these from the dealers, but what about the poor college student who needs an affordable pistol to shoot. They probly sold some great guns (.22s, .38s) besides the junk ones. makes me sad.

CountGlockula
May 1, 2008, 11:38 AM
They probly sold some great guns (.22s, .38s) besides the junk ones. makes me sad.

They actually sent the guns to The Crucible, an Oakland nonprofit metalworking and sculpture studio, to be melted down and turned into a "peace monument".

Guns actually bring peace to this country. How ironic is that?

Conqueror
May 1, 2008, 11:51 AM
I wonder if the police filled a 4473 for all those guns when they gave them to the sculptor. :)

If I was the sculptor I'd make the statue from cheap steel and sell all the guns to the nearest used gun dealer!

Sniper X
May 1, 2008, 11:54 AM
i wonder, what does a FFL put in his log book for those guns?


Sold to Popo Id guess.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 1, 2008, 12:15 PM
Next time one of these comes up for that price, we have GOT to get the word out nationwide beforehand, so that people can drive from far and wide to attend and bankrupt these idiots. With no questions asked, you could indeed just load up on ravens and hi-points and make a nice roadtrip of it. We'd all earn enough to fund our roadtrip AND buy a *nice* new gun. :D

mbt2001
May 1, 2008, 12:17 PM
Actually, this will probably go down as 1.) A "resounding success as the people of this city say NO to Violence and guns and the evil wrought with their use..." 2.) Evil "gun dealers" took advantage of the city.

MakAttak
May 1, 2008, 12:18 PM
Quote:
GUEST COMMENTARY
ALEX TABARROK From the community
Oakland's gun buy-back misfires

Contra Costa Times
Article Launched: 02/23/2008 03:03:55 AM PST

On Feb. 9, Oakland police, led by state Sen. Don Perata, D-Oakland, offered to buy handguns and assault weapons for $250 each, "no questions asked, no ID required." The "One Less Gun" buy-back program attracted so many eager sellers that the money quickly ran out. But instead of closing up shop, the police handed out IOUs good for a future buy back. The Oakland police are now stuck with a bill for $170,000.
The buy back has been criticized as a poorly organized fiasco, but even the critics say it was "the right idea" and "a step in the right direction."

On the contrary, the buy back was a bad idea from the beginning. Gun buy backs have been tried before, in cities from Seattle to Washington, D.C., and they simply don't work.

In an authoritative study, the National Academy of Sciences reported that "the theory underlying gun buy-back programs is badly flawed and the empirical evidence demonstrates the ineffectiveness of these programs."

It doesn't take much insight to understand why gun buy backs don't work. Gun buy backs attract low-quality guns from people who aren't likely to use them to commit crimes. The Oakland police, for example, bought a dozen guns from seniors living in an assisted-living facility. Are you relieved to know that Perata disarmed these dangerous senior citizens?

The Oakland buy back was especially absurd because of the high price offered: $250. Why didn't anyone running the program think to look at the price of a new gun? In fact, the first two people in line at one of the three buy-back locations were gun dealers with 60 firearms packed in the trunk of their cars.
One wonders why the police even bothered to buy the guns from Oakland residents. Why not buy directly from gun manufacturers?

Of course, buying guns from manufacturers is so obviously an absurd way to reduce the supply of guns that it has never been proposed.

Nevertheless, the idea is no less absurd when Oakland residents serve as the middlemen between the manufacturers and the police.

Buying a few thousand guns in Oakland is not going to make it more difficult for criminals in Oakland to get a gun.

There are 150 million to 200 million guns in the United States, so there are plenty of low-quality guns to be sold. An Oakland gun buy back is like trying to drain the Pacific -- every bucket of water you take out is instantly replaced. Even large gunbuy-back programs are unlikely to have significant effects. Australia spent half a billion dollars buying guns, with no significant effect on homicide by firearms.

Imagine that instead of guns, the Oakland police decided, for whatever strange reason, to buy back sneakers. The idea of a gun buyback is to reduce the supply of guns in Oakland. Do you think that a sneaker buy back program would reduce the number of people wearing sneakers in Oakland? Of course not.

All that would happen is that people would reach into the back of their closet and sell the police a bunch of old, tired, stinky sneakers.

Gun buy backs won't reduce the number of guns in Oakland. In fact, buy backs may increase the number of guns in Oakland.

Imagine that gun dealers offered a guarantee with every gun: Whenever this gun gets old and wears down, the dealer will buy back the gun for $250.

The dealers' guarantee makes guns more valuable, so people will buy more guns.

But the story is exactly the same when it's the police offering the guarantee. If buyers know that they can sell their old guns in a buy back, they are more likely to buy new guns. Thus the more common gun buy backs are held, the more likely they are to misfire.

Recognizing that gun buy backs don't work is neither pro- nor anti-gun. We all want to reduce gun crime in Oakland. Yet the Oakland police and concerned private citizens have spent $250,000 on a policy that doesn't work and that everyone who has studied the issue knows does not work.

The guns bought in this buy back are destined to be melted down to create a monument.

It's a shame that this monument will be the only lasting effect of the buy back.

Tabarrok is research director for the Independent Institute in Oakland, and associate professor of economics at George Mason University.

At first I was shocked to see excellent economic reasoning from a reporter.

Then I saw it was Alex Tabarrok. Yeah, not surprised any more.

MASTEROFMALICE
May 1, 2008, 12:26 PM
I've always wanted to hit up a gun buyback and buy something from someone coming to send something in.

primlantah
May 1, 2008, 12:36 PM
next time,when its mandatory, they will only offer $5 per gun. :barf:

Tyris
May 1, 2008, 01:28 PM
These gun buyback schemes make me wonder why don't these anti gun movie stars and buisness owners start their own buyback with their own money?


Because the rich don't get that way by giving their money away.

-T

Flame Red
May 1, 2008, 03:42 PM
I have a real POS sitting in my safe for years just waiting for one of those buy backs. Fortunately, the buy backs around here have been few and far between and crappy so far.

God I Bless Florida!

Crow1108
May 1, 2008, 04:32 PM
They had one here in Los Angeles, but instead of $250 per gun the officials gave out gift cards to Target, Toys R Us, Best Buys, etc. but value ranged from $20-$100.


That's really fitting, a liberal company such as Target :barf:.

The crappy thing about it is the occasional story of the little old lady, or even the housewife who doesn't see eye-to-eye with their husband, and takes their gun to the buyback without them knowing (IE: while they are at work).

Carl N. Brown
May 1, 2008, 05:08 PM
Australia spent half a billion dollars buying guns, with no significant effect on homicide by firearms.

The Australian program was not a voluntary buyback like we see in the USA. 640,000 guns were condemned by definition, a sort of "assault weapon ban" in reaction to a shooting spree by a psycho. Registered owners were required to turn their guns in, with compensation based in part on the fair value of the gun. Owners of surendered guns with evil features, like the Ruger 10/22, reported taking their compensation money and buying Lee-Enfield bolt action .303 rifles to replace them. Buying the guns, collecting them and destroying them, at a total cost of ~500,000,000 for 640,000 guns is almost a thousand dollars a gun. The sad part is, that money came from funds originally ear marked for public health: that waste was a net loss for Australians. It did show the true colors of gun control and its supporters and the consequences of registration.

blkbrd666
May 1, 2008, 05:27 PM
Wonder how many criminals disposed of their evidence by allowing the police to melt it down? As for the mandatory turn in for $5...I don't see them getting much...my mental picture is a bunch of people standing around drinking coffee with a bewildered look on their face, wondering where everyone is........a tumbleweed rolls by....

AndrewGWU
May 1, 2008, 05:34 PM
hmmm... I would have to go buy twenty high points then turn around and double my money on them if I found a department paying that for handguns...

sfhogman
May 1, 2008, 06:34 PM
Well now, I seems that my wretched little semifunctional Hopkins and Allen may have found a new home.

I'm sure that the San Francisco PD and powers that be are every bit as dumb as those in Oakland, even without Don Perata.

Jeff

boggyboy72
May 1, 2008, 06:55 PM
Can a private citizen go to buyback and "make offers''to people coming in?Most buybacks I have seen give $50-$100 for a little more you might get a real tresure that has been hiding in a closet for years.Seems like I saw a story awhile back about a guy that turned in a old Jap rifle he picked up after the war,turns out it one of a kind and worth BIG BUCKS.Some collectors saw it in the paper with the handguns and ''assault rifles'' and got it back for him.

Cougfan2
May 1, 2008, 07:08 PM
Please, please, please do the exact same thing here in Portland. I'd buy every POS Jennings or Raven I could get my hands on. I can use the money! :D

hksw
May 1, 2008, 11:17 PM
IMO, it all depends on the spin. Certainly, IMO, I do think dealers did take advantage of the buyback (and I would have too) but the reports from the other side of the fence will likely be, 'the gun buyback was such a success that the police ran out of money', as seen here:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local&id=5947138

There does seem to be a lot of Mossberg 500s, Rem 870s, Marlin M60s, etc. in good shape in the mix (all can be had for under $200 NIB).

Rachen
May 1, 2008, 11:29 PM
Guns actually bring peace to this country. How ironic is that?

Some people just don't understand.

However, they can just take a trip to Washington DC. After all, they totally banned guns already right? However, there isn't exactly peace in the streets there.

Peace means being able to tuck your kids into bed at night and go to sleep yourself, knowing that if trouble calls, there is a revolver in the dresser right next to you, ready to be used to defend you and your loved ones.

Peace also means criminals and rogues totally avoiding coming into your town or neighborhood. because almost everybody is armed and ready to defend their homes and lives if need be.

But then, I am preaching to the choir, am I?

simmonsguns
May 1, 2008, 11:55 PM
We have 60 years of parts guns, old slave receivers and stuff just given to us to get rid of it.
I'm sending an e-mail to the mayor of OverlandPark to sugest a $250.00 buy-back.
One step closer to my CNC milling center.

230RN
May 2, 2008, 05:11 AM
Why don't we all write our respective mayors and ask them to implement a buyback program?

Heh-heh-hehhhh...

Mk VII
May 2, 2008, 09:08 AM
Because they will put up taxes to pay for it, as happened in Australia.

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